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Release Notes - December 5, 2016

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I don't really care myself about the icons' look - it is much more relevant to me that the map that they are on is still showing all the locations' names backwards in Arabic & Hebrew for months now, and the problem is still unsolved.

 

That's been identified as a fault with the map service provider, so GS have no control over it not the ability to fix it.

True, but GS did know that when they changed to the new provider.

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Based on past experience, this is how I think the situation will be two weeks from now:

-The members who don't like/can't use the new design will have moved to third-party alternative maps, learned to live with it, or abandoned it entirely to use different methods.

-A few members will threaten geocide but fail to follow through, earning a geocide rating of 0.

-The uproar will have largely died down, with the exception of the occasional member who's just noticing the change and will start a new forum discussion titled "I HATE THE NEW MAP!!!1!", or similar.

-The developers will have fixed some technical issues (e.g. the size of the clickable area), but no changes will have been made to the style and the accessibility/user experience problems will remain.

-The Lackeys will have lost interest in this particular project and will move on to another project, neglecting to ever actually complete the project.

-The mistakes that have been made throughout the process on this and previous projects will be forgotten and then repeated on the new project.

-Profit?

Haha, +1.

 

Given how atrocious the app is, and GS being busy copying that look back to the website while ignoring feedback, the future is bleak.

 

Stopped laughing now.

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[[...] Ok, assuming that we wanted to use the search tool, how do we show these results on the map? (seriously - the search tool is so aesthetically displeasing,[...]

 

Wow. The button "Map These Geocaches" is not obvious enough?

We're not in the 4-H Club here, aren't we?

 

Hans

 

Edit: typo

 

Given that the search tool, as I clearly mentioned in another post is something I do not use, no. that is not obvious enough.

 

I stopped using the search tool when it became what it is today and will not start now. GSAK is far superior in every way.

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I haven't downloaded the new icons onto my garmin gps yet, so can't say how they appear on the device. However my first impression of them on the web page was of shock / horror at these awful childish looking images. please change them back to the original sophisticated design.

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The map will not be the last step - it seems as they want to change all the icons, everywhere:

tlrxu5G.png

 

Please, Groundspeak, don't do that. Looks like jelly beans shop, not Geocaching.

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The new icons look good for me. But it is still only design. Why do you waste your time on such useless work while much more imporant things really needs your attention? Functionality and usability! That is what you should working on!

 

Why cannot I simply filter caches on the map by size, D/T or attributes?

Why PQs are so archaic, hardly comfortable and with absurd restrictions from the previous century?

Why should I set 8 different instant notifications for one region (separate for each cache type) instead of just one for all?

Why we still does not have usable cache editor?

etc.

+1.

 

GS, please, focus on the functionality fixes.

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Having thought that my initial comments about the new style icons/map might have been unfair, I've been using it for three days on both a tablet and a laptop. I can honestly say now that it's a complete step in the wrong direction as it's harder to see the icons, zoom levels versus icon sizes are all over the place and, it's really user unfriendly. What a bizarre thing to do, to make it harder to use - weird.

 

Can I make a suggestion? Go and take a look at Project GC's caching map - it may give you some ideas on how to make a usable geocaching map. Oh, hang on, didn't you have one like that until you decided to make it look like your (ahem - first rate, splendid**) app? Wow, that's erm, um, embarrassing.

 

Go on, for once, change your mind, say you got it wrong, just as a little gift to us non-app uses, it's coming up to Christmas after all. You know you want to.

 

** Not really.

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Having thought that my initial comments about the new style icons/map might have been unfair, I've been using it for three days on both a tablet and a laptop. I can honestly say now that it's a complete step in the wrong direction as it's harder to see the icons, zoom levels versus icon sizes are all over the place and, it's really user unfriendly. What a bizarre thing to do, to make it harder to use - weird.

 

Can I make a suggestion? Go and take a look at Project GC's caching map - it may give you some ideas on how to make a usable geocaching map. Oh, hang on, didn't you have one like that until you decided to make it look like your (ahem - first rate, splendid**) app? Wow, that's erm, um, embarrassing.

 

Go on, for once, change your mind, say you got it wrong, just as a little gift to us non-app uses, it's coming up to Christmas after all. You know you want to.

 

** Not really.

 

+100 !

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Having thought that my initial comments about the new style icons/map might have been unfair, I've been using it for three days on both a tablet and a laptop. I can honestly say now that it's a complete step in the wrong direction as it's harder to see the icons, zoom levels versus icon sizes are all over the place and, it's really user unfriendly. What a bizarre thing to do, to make it harder to use - weird.

 

Can I make a suggestion? Go and take a look at Project GC's caching map - it may give you some ideas on how to make a usable geocaching map. Oh, hang on, didn't you have one like that until you decided to make it look like your (ahem - first rate, splendid**) app? Wow, that's erm, um, embarrassing.

 

Go on, for once, change your mind, say you got it wrong, just as a little gift to us non-app uses, it's coming up to Christmas after all. You know you want to.

 

** Not really.

 

+100 !

 

dont exaggerate

 

+ 1.000.000 XD

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Here at Groundspeak I am still paying since it effectively has a monopoly on Geocaching (yes, I know about the alternatives - but look at the number of caches) - but I am not happy at all and am getting less happy with every update. The last time Groundspeak actually listened to their users and implemented something useful was 2010 I think (or maybe 2011).

 

That's a bit too extreme ;) Seriously!

 

There were quite some speed issues long time ago and these have been fixed. Responsiveness is completely fine since then and this was later than 2011...

 

Challenges: New ones came and went as of the request of the users!

 

Challenge caches: Back again as a result of the users requests!

 

More/bigger PQs: As a result of user requests!

 

Map changes: Many changes have been made over the years. Some to the like of the users, some others might have made some people unhappy. That's true. But saying Groundspeak is only doing what THEY want simply isn't true!

 

One might not exactly like the new style of the icons. I personally am fine with most of them. I don't like the webcam/virtual icons so much as they are hard to distinguish but the others are pretty ok for me. Can't tell about color blind issues. Might really be one. And if so there should be some fix. I just wonder that there were no such complaints yet for the mobile app...

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I don't really care myself about the icons' look - it is much more relevant to me that the map that they are on is still showing all the locations' names backwards in Arabic & Hebrew for months now, and the problem is still unsolved.

 

That's been identified as a fault with the map service provider, so GS have no control over it not the ability to fix it.

True, but GS did know that when they changed to the new provider.

 

Even if so, they had no other choice...

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[[...] Ok, assuming that we wanted to use the search tool, how do we show these results on the map? (seriously - the search tool is so aesthetically displeasing,[...]

 

Wow. The button "Map These Geocaches" is not obvious enough?

We're not in the 4-H Club here, aren't we?

 

Hans

 

Edit: typo

 

Given that the search tool, as I clearly mentioned in another post is something I do not use, no. that is not obvious enough.

 

I stopped using the search tool when it became what it is today and will not start now. GSAK is far superior in every way.

 

Oh wow, you do have each and every cache in GSAK? Tell me how to do that :)

 

Besides that you're quite right. But viewing the caches on a map might be missing in GSAK. This works pretty fine within the website

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Oh wow, you do have each and every cache in GSAK? Tell me how to do that :)

 

Besides that you're quite right. But viewing the caches on a map might be missing in GSAK. This works pretty fine within the website

 

I have all Belgian (unfound) caches in one database 29000+, another holds all (unfound) caches in the Netherlands. Belgian caches are updated by PQ once a week, the ones in the Netherlands (30.000+) when I have the time/need to update.

 

So what's the problem?

Viewing caches in GSAK is NOT missing. In fact, it's a nice split screen with different maps available + streetview.

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First comment from Finnish forums: "This is harassment against colorblind."

 

My husband, who is color blind, loathes the new icons so much that he is now adamant about not wanting to renew our premium membership when it comes up for renewal next year.

 

This is a man who lives, breathes, and exists to go caching.

 

He says there is no way to distinguish the colors and shapes any more, and the time it takes to distinguish one from another is grossly inconvenient and a form of "harassment"/discrimination as stated above.;)

 

What was wrong with the way it was? Couldn't a poll have been taken before initiating these changes that a great deal of people seem to be opposed to? Can we please have a choice as to what format we would like to use? Moreover, why would you put changes into effect that seemingly have no benefit? This, to me, is baffling.

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Every company likes to keep as much stuff in house and under their own control, but at this point Groundspeak has been less than impressive with their web development

 

The map has been buggy for awhile. I've had frequent crashes and load issue. I can only assume that Groundspeak is trying to make things better. But the word "better" is very subjective. It seems that any "under the hood" fixes that may have occurred is being offset by the aesthetics downgrades.

 

At this point, with Project-GC handling so many duties, the only thing that Project-GC seems to be missing is hosting the database of the caches. Project-GC's data mining of the Groundspeak database is better than what Groundspeak is doing.

 

Maybe Groundspeak should outsource their servers to host Project-GC and marry the services. Groundspeak can host the database and listing services while Project-GC does the mapping and data mining.

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Thank you everyone for the feedback. We’ve investigated the colorblindness concerns and have identified areas for improvement. We’ll be rolling out the changes in the coming days.

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First comment from Finnish forums: "This is harassment against colorblind."

 

My husband, who is color blind, loathes the new icons so much that he is now adamant about not wanting to renew our premium membership when it comes up for renewal next year.

 

This is a man who lives, breathes, and exists to go caching.

 

He says there is no way to distinguish the colors and shapes any more, and the time it takes to distinguish one from another is grossly inconvenient and a form of "harassment"/discrimination as stated above.;)

 

What was wrong with the way it was? Couldn't a poll have been taken before initiating these changes that a great deal of people seem to be opposed to? Can we please have a choice as to what format we would like to use? Moreover, why would you put changes into effect that seemingly have no benefit? This, to me, is baffling.

 

Just tell your husband to give the Project GC Live Map a try!

It's so much more user friendly and has powerful filters. And it's an official API partner. I'm almost thankful for this new update because it brought this better alternative into my eyes!

And I just learned that you can measure distances directly on the map to guess hiking distances. Wow, that's so cool! It's going to be tough for me to switch back to the official map tool at this rate, even if they do roll back the changes.

Edited by brendan714
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We’ve investigated the colorblindness concerns

 

Not trying to be disrespectful or anything, but isn't it concerning that a group of professional website designers didn't consider colourblindness during the (I assume lengthy) design and bug testing phases? Also, it's interesting that this hasn't been brought up as a concern for app users? I don't know hardly anything about website design, but the first thing that came into my head was "uh oh, this is going to be a disaster for people who have trouble distinguishing colours...".

 

Seems like a note saying "Hey cachers! Anybody want to beta-test our new map design?" would have solved a lot of problems? I would have been happy to beta test and give some brief feedback. Again, I'm no expert and perhaps this was already done.

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They are not going to change the icons backs. Forum feedback, is just, well not cared much about at all. Users here are seen as die hards, going to complain about any changes, so just ignore them.

 

GS only cares that the map looks fresh now, not 2005, doesn't matter if it was more usable before. Is there a greasemonkey script to change the icons back yet?

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We’ve investigated the colorblindness concerns

Also, it's interesting that this hasn't been brought up as a concern for app users?

 

I think with a quick review of the forums it's pretty clear that the app has been getting the same complaints. There are just so may of them though, that the icon complaints were drowned-out. Nonetheless, the complaints have been ignored.

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Thank you everyone for the feedback. We’ve investigated the colorblindness concerns and have identified areas for improvement. We’ll be rolling out the changes in the coming days.

 

An interesting statement but only a partial one. The colourblindness issue (note the 'u' in colour - I write in English) is going to be addressed - great! Well done. However, what about all the other issues like poor icon design and the poor icon/zoom problem? The statement doesn't look particularly promising.

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And I just learned that you can measure distances directly on the map to guess hiking distances.

Psst, you can do that in Locus (an Android caching app) too, via a double finger-press (off by default). And AFAIK, their icons haven't changed in a long time, and they probably won't dare change them anytime soon now, after seeing the kerfuffle here.

 

But hey Groundspeak... I've long ago sworn off trying to figure out the convoluted NewSearch™ (I think you have to leave something blank somewhere), because having a great map made it unnecessary to use that search. At least for my purposes.

 

The map is/was your best feature. I'm sure the method to the madness will be apparent in the fullness of time. In the meantime ...yikes.

Edited by Viajero Perdido
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Now I know I'm an old fossil, but old fossils and developing fossils alike play this game and this old fossil recognises that she's not so happy with endless changes. OK, "endless" exaggerates a little, but for me the major changes which irk are the loss of the second map on each cache page (like everyone else, I have to zoom out to see where on earth the location is - especially on newly-published caches, or open up something like Googlemaps to see it all properly), and this new icon malarky).

 

I've only read about 2/3rds of the first page of comments, but enough to tell me that I'm not alone in this. For me, there is something very bland about the new circles, where before the fun of the different shapes lay in the interest of finding a completely different type of cache. Now we're effectively just finding different coloured circles (yawn).

 

I'm not colour-blind, so that doesn't affect me as such. However, I take exception to the thinking that barely anyone uses/understands the Premium member function. Should I be flattered that I'm in a perceived minority? I don't feel flattered, in part because I don't believe it anyway.

 

The icons are too big on the map. I find it all very bland and rather boring. Shouldn't we be excited and interested by "improvements"? I'm not.

 

Back to my Fossil Cave.

 

:ph34r:

Edited by Original A1
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Now I know I'm an old fossil, but old fossils and developing fossils alike play this game and this old fossil recognises that she's not so happy with endless changes. OK, "endless" exaggerates a little, but for me the major changes which irk are the loss of the second map on each cache page (like everyone else, I have to zoom out to see where on earth the location is - especially on newly-published caches, or open up something like Googlemaps to see it all properly), and this new icon malarky).

 

I've only read about 2/3rds of the first page of comments, but enough to tell me that I'm not alone in this. For me, there is something very bland about the new circles, where before the fun of the different shapes lay in the interest of finding a completely different type of cache. Now we're effectively just finding different coloured circles (yawn).

 

I'm not colour-blind, so that doesn't affect me as such. However, I take exception to the thinking that barely anyone uses/understands the Premium member function. Should I be flattered that I'm in a perceived minority? I don't feel flattered, in part because I don't believe it anyway.

 

The icons are too big on the map. I find it all very bland and rather boring. Shouldn't we be excited and interested by "improvements"? I'm not.

 

Back to my Fossil Cave.

 

:ph34r:

 

For the most part, changes made by Groundspeak are rarely needed, rarely help anyone, and above all, rarely make any sense.

 

I'm an old fossil as well but even if i was a younger whipper snapper, i still don't get why these silly changes come about. I figure it has to do with the phone app but what do i know. :rolleyes:

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Reading the statement from the GS Lackey, it's either play with our bat and ball, or don't play at all since they are the only game in town.

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I've already posted this in the General Geocaching Discussions forum, but since TPTB seems to be monitoring only this thread, let me repost this here. This is what our fellow cachers in Japan are seeing in the web site now. How many caches are there in this area?

 

15356719_1133265050124900_6531079663484187030_n.jpg?oh=95dc4fdf68c3c8aeab252f8538742021&oe=58B1AC1F

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Of course, one of the best parts of limiting most of the discussion to this area is that, when the next Release Note is released, this one will be shut down. Sorry. Discussion over.

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Of course, one of the best parts of limiting most of the discussion to this area is that, when the next Release Note is released, this one will be shut down. Sorry. Discussion over.

Which is why a thread in "Geocaching Topics" is also open. You're welcome.

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Pup Patrol

Non-PMO members who want to hide a cache can't see PMO caches on the map? Seems like that's just going to add more problems.

 

So that's what it looks like on the app...I'll get used to it, I suppose.

 

More and more cartoonish all the time. Is that what the world of mobile phones is like?

 

Reminds me of the orders from above in the college dorm - you can paint your room, but it has to be a pastel - you don't have to be a clairvoyant to figure there were some who still painted the walls whatever color they liked, even black.

 

Briarwoodhill Clan

Went to geocaching.com map page tonight and just about died. New unfriendly icons! These icons have the same major flaw of most mobile device applications, they totally leave us color blind people in the dark. The unique shapes of the old icons made it very easy to tell the cache type regardless of color ...

 

This is known as Degrading Usability (favoring form over function.) Indeed, we are practiced by years of shape recognition and with a quick glance spotted what we were looking for - it was a very good user experience, now I have to fiddle with buttons to turn on/off cache types or put my face closer to the screen to make out the reversed images, which I've always found far more difficult to discern than the way they were. In time we could get used to some of it, but it's thrown barriers in the way and degraded what was a mostly positive experience.

 

Linus.de

Summarizing all these replies:

 

Nobody likes it!

 

As far as I know Groundspeak is a profit oriented company.

Therefore it's hard to understand that so many customerunfriendly things have been implemented.

Information on maps have been reduced with this change.

Please stick with the old design! It was perfect!

The argument it's now a common design with the app is not valid. Gues why most people don't use the app?

 

I see a few who appear fine with it, but I tend to agree with your points.

 

 

Bigbee43

Why not give us an option as to whether we want to use the new map or the old map?

 

I stated elsewhere in the forums it is seldom the practice of anyone to go at a project like this with the consideration of giving users a way to use the old way - Google Maps did that for a while, then they just dumped the Classic mode and you got their awful "improved mode" along with everyone else. They're not here to make you happy, they're here to make money or something like that. It's a sort of problem when one side controls all the votes.

 

[iCE]monkey

being colourblind the new map is useless to me now as i cant see the different colours ,its a move in the wrong direction

 

I have the Red/Green colorblindness. (I even made a puzzle of it.) Now I have to squint a lot. People are going to think I'm Popeye.

 

niraD

Before committing to a new web design, it's a good idea to make sure the change is an improvement:

Google answer

 

Even Google blows by their own advice - the current Google Maps is a prime example. I spend a moment disabling the awful 3D every time I use the Earth/Satellite view.

 

 

Rumreisender

If the map will be like this now, I will only use the live map of project GC... There the caches are clearly indicated (with pointers) and I have more filters to choose from.

 

Thanks for the tip - it's always good to have more options.

 

geocaching-wickham-park.gif

 

Ah, the good old days of pre-December 2016.

 

Delta68

Given that it's now three days since the change and no one fron HQ has commented (on issues regarding the map icons), I think we can all assume they are using their usual technique of just holding out until everyone simply gives up complaining.

 

That's been my experience. They'll listen a bit, maybe tweak some things, but if you don't like the overall concept you lose.

 

thebruce0

Oh man, I found this xkcd so timely! laughing.gif (& be sure to read the mouseover!)

 

I've only grown moderately older (in body) in the amount of time I've seen many interfaces try to be more "mobile friendly" and, as this morning's exasperating experience with a local Hospital (a freaking Hospital!!) website, trying to find hours and important stuff, trying to get past all the fluff of pictures and how much the care about the community and patients. Interface Design is a Science. IBM knew this back in the 1960s. I continue to be astonished how many companies go through the whole re-invent the interface process after they had already achieved success.

 

Bigbee43

Reading the statement from the GS Lackey, it's either play with our bat and ball, or don't play at all since they are the only game in town.

 

It is my observation of the customary stance - we are right, those who do not like it are wrong and if it creates further resentment of our approach to customers, we expect everyone to just get over it. We're supposed to have an event in a couple days and I know this will be a hot topic of discussion rather than the usual festive atmosphere. Unfortunate. It was like this at an event right after the radical change to the cache authoring pages, which are still they way they changed them to.

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Thank you everyone for the feedback. We’ve investigated the colorblindness concerns and have identified areas for improvement. We’ll be rolling out the changes in the coming days.

 

I rarely come out of lurk mode, but this one -the change, not your comment- has hit a nerve. Instead of adding to the collective sentiment with a long list of points that have already been brought to light, I'll opt for the condensed version of my take on this release.

 

I'm old school -preferring to use a GPSr and GSAK over the mobile app. (Yes, I have used it. Hence my intention to remain old school).

I'm also one of the '8%' of males who suffer from colourblindess. Draw your own conclusions.

 

But more than anything else, I'm driven to just ask one question: Why did you not see fit to put this to the 'User Insight' forum beforehand??

I can only theorise that you knew the tone of the feedback you'd receive and just opted sidestep that whole thing.

 

Better to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission, yeah? <_<

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Please bring back the old icons - on the map AND on the Search results page. The new ones are SO ugly, they make my eyes hurt :mad:

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As already written in the other thread, I'm also disgusted of this new icons.

They look ugly and too color-concentrated.

What annoys me the most is the design of the Letterbox icons. They are too unremarkable now, they always were white in my mind. Also the icons of webcam and virtual caches are insulting these cache types and they also disappear on the overview.

I think as long this isn't fixed, I also will use Project-gc.com

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Where's Waldo - or maybe where are the Earthcaches?

 

2vlk20j.jpg

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Where's Waldo - or maybe where are the Earthcaches?

 

2vlk20j.jpg

 

Yeah, those are kinda hard to spot. I had to lean toward the screen to see all of them. Some blend in without that little box around them.

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Yet another release, still no:

 

a. Field notes.

 

b. ignore list implementation.

 

These have been asked for after every release since the "classic" app was sidelined, yet they still haven't been rolled into the new app. And no, I'm not the only one who would use these things.

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Yet another release, still no:

 

a. Field notes.

 

b. ignore list implementation.

 

These have been asked for after every release since the "classic" app was sidelined, yet they still haven't been rolled into the new app. And no, I'm not the only one who would use these things.

Yeah, the lack of field notes makes Groundspeak's Android app a nonstarter for me. The ignore list is less of an issue for me, mainly because all the caches on my ignore list are challenge caches, and I don't download mystery/puzzle caches except for the ones on my "solved unfound puzzles" bookmark list.
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[...]

My Question is how do we filter on the map for Premium caches HOW?? [...]

 

Do it just the other way round:

1. Do a NewSearch for PMO caches only.

2. Map the result. Bingo!

 

Hans

 

I Always zoomed to 2km so I get the nice large icons. Now its not posibble anymore :(

Now I need to zoom to 500m but then is the map to small.[...]

 

Use the NewSearch map instead:

 

Yes - cachers can use the New Search, but there is a difference between using the New Search and the Browsing Map. In particular, the browsing map allows one to pan across a wide area to see what caches are available. Mapping of search results is limited to 1000 caches, which is not sufficient for cache dense areas.

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BTW, it would have been great to also move caches that have corrected coordinates to those corrected coordinates. And even greater to add the small "has corrected coordinates" mini-icon to those cache's icons, just as it's already done in the new search page.

 

Still not showing corrected coordinates on the map and now the new icons makes the original Groundspeak maps less and less attractive and usable for me.

 

Please do proper cases. For example - solved caches moved to solved location, after open trackable page we can see if we saw and logged it some days ago etc.

As has existed for a while, it is possible to see cache icons at corrected coords. It depends on how you're getting to the map. Unfortunately, there still isn't an indication of which icons are using corrected coords or original coords.

 

SEARCH:

Play -> Find a Geocache -> Enter city/area/etc -> Search -> Map These Results -- Cache icons appear at the 'corrected' coords if they have corrected coords, otherwise they appear at the original 'listed' coords.

 

BROWSE:

Play -> View Geocache Map -- Cache icons appear at the original 'listed' coords.

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BTW, it would have been great to also move caches that have corrected coordinates to those corrected coordinates. And even greater to add the small "has corrected coordinates" mini-icon to those cache's icons, just as it's already done in the new search page.

 

Still not showing corrected coordinates on the map and now the new icons makes the original Groundspeak maps less and less attractive and usable for me.

 

Please do proper cases. For example - solved caches moved to solved location, after open trackable page we can see if we saw and logged it some days ago etc.

As has existed for a while, it is possible to see cache icons at corrected coords. It depends on how you're getting to the map. Unfortunately, there still isn't an indication of which icons are using corrected coords or original coords.

 

SEARCH:

Play -> Find a Geocache -> Enter city/area/etc -> Search -> Map These Results -- Cache icons appear at the 'corrected' coords if they have corrected coords, otherwise they appear at the original 'listed' coords.

 

BROWSE:

Play -> View Geocache Map -- Cache icons appear at the original 'listed' coords.

 

So what ? There is a way bla bla bla... Is it to much to ask that the map always behaves the way it should ? I sure can do that. You too. But do we really all have to use tricks for normal things to happen ? Let's say someone shows me a the map full of mysery cache, I don't know how he landed on it. Am I seeing them at their corrected coordinates ? Are they even solved ? Come on, the mere fact that the map is tricky and not unambiguous speaks for itself : there is an issue with it !

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I'll add to the thread by saying I don't like the changes, either.

 

I don't see that the changes do anything to make the site work better or faster or cheaper or that they will attract new users. If I'm wrong, it would be nice to know as it would make the changes less intolerable.

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Reading the statement from the GS Lackey, it's either play with our bat and ball, or don't play at all since they are the only game in town.

The thing is tho' in actual fact we users own the bat and ball ... the equipment used for caching is our hardware (phone, gps) and the caches set by us, owned by us, maintained by us.

 

GS only writes the rule book and keeps the records.

Without volunteer reviewers, and volunteer cache setters there is no game, no income stream, no profit.

 

The GS direction of travel does seem to be towards an app centred business model.

I wonder what proportion of long living, well maintained caches are placed by us web dinosaurs compared with those by app users?

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Reading the statement from the GS Lackey, it's either play with our bat and ball, or don't play at all since they are the only game in town.

The thing is tho' in actual fact we users own the bat and ball ... the equipment used for caching is our hardware (phone, gps) and the caches set by us, owned by us, maintained by us.

 

GS only writes the rule book and keeps the records.

Without volunteer reviewers, and volunteer cache setters there is no game, no income stream, no profit.

 

The GS direction of travel does seem to be towards an app centred business model.

I wonder what proportion of long living, well maintained caches are placed by us web dinosaurs compared with those by app users?

 

In the past the webapp/mobile users caches tended to be pill bottles and other containers which should have been sent to recycling as they leaked or fell apart easily - mobile users were here-and-gone. Now there's probably a considerable number who are doing better, though battery life for mobile devices still tends to limit their range and time span.

 

Still using a dedicated device as it requires no plan and I can swap out AA batteries on the go. Very glad I do because it's much easier to deal with than this webapp stuff.

 

I do wish GS wouldn't try to have one means for all users, though. The webapp approach is ugly and makes far more work of trying to do simple things.

 

It's like when you need a hammer, why in The Bob's name would you go and get some jazzy gizmo?

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So what ? There is a way bla bla bla... Is it to much to ask that the map always behaves the way it should ? I sure can do that. You too. But do we really all have to use tricks for normal things to happen ? Let's say someone shows me a the map full of mysery cache, I don't know how he landed on it. Am I seeing them at their corrected coordinates ? Are they even solved ? Come on, the mere fact that the map is tricky and not unambiguous speaks for itself : there is an issue with it !

noncentric gave you a work around. It's unfair of you to conclude that the suggestion implied criticism of your complaint. Yes, the illogical inconsistency is annoying, but don't take it out on someone that's only trying to help you get the results you're looking for.

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So what ? There is a way bla bla bla... Is it to much to ask that the map always behaves the way it should ? I sure can do that. You too. But do we really all have to use tricks for normal things to happen ? Let's say someone shows me a the map full of mysery cache, I don't know how he landed on it. Am I seeing them at their corrected coordinates ? Are they even solved ? Come on, the mere fact that the map is tricky and not unambiguous speaks for itself : there is an issue with it !

noncentric gave you a work around. It's unfair of you to conclude that the suggestion implied criticism of your complaint. Yes, the illogical inconsistency is annoying, but don't take it out on someone that's only trying to help you get the results you're looking for.

Didn't sound like Gill was taking it out on Non. Was more like, it's ridiculous that we have to come up with and use work arounds for functionality that gc.com should put in place themselves.

 

I'm one who doesn't mind the very basics. I could go back to when i started in 2002, a time when there were pretty much only 3 geocaching guidelines for us to follow and when cache info/mapping were really basic on a cache page. Didn't have all the hand holding that we have nowadays and we had to work a bit more to plan for and find caches. Ah yesss, those were the good ole days! But since gc.com is insistent on trying to make caching really simple for all, they should at least endeavor to get the obvious things right.

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As has existed for a while, it is possible to see cache icons at corrected coords. It depends on how you're getting to the map. Unfortunately, there still isn't an indication of which icons are using corrected coords or original coords.

 

SEARCH:

Play -> Find a Geocache -> Enter city/area/etc -> Search -> Map These Results -- Cache icons appear at the 'corrected' coords if they have corrected coords, otherwise they appear at the original 'listed' coords.

 

BROWSE:

Play -> View Geocache Map -- Cache icons appear at the original 'listed' coords.

 

So what ? There is a way bla bla bla... Is it to much to ask that the map always behaves the way it should ? I sure can do that. You too. But do we really all have to use tricks for normal things to happen ? Let's say someone shows me a the map full of mysery cache, I don't know how he landed on it. Am I seeing them at their corrected coordinates ? Are they even solved ? Come on, the mere fact that the map is tricky and not unambiguous speaks for itself : there is an issue with it !

As I mentioned in my "bla bla bla" post, it's still unfortunate that there isn't an indication of which icons are using corrected coords or original coords. My post did not imply that there isn't an issue.

 

I'm not convinced that always showing icons at their 'corrected coords' is the one-and-only way that the map should behave. I noted a couple examples of why I thought having an option to see caches at their original coords could be preferred in this post. These examples may not be important to many cachers and/or other cachers might have other reasons to want an option about corrected vs original coords.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want all map views to show caches ONLY at their corrected coords. My ideal would be that the browsing map has an option to toggle on/off corrected coords AND that icons with corrected coords have a clearly visible indicator on both browsing and search results maps. I'm hopeful such features will appear one day.

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As has existed for a while, it is possible to see cache icons at corrected coords. It depends on how you're getting to the map. Unfortunately, there still isn't an indication of which icons are using corrected coords or original coords.

 

SEARCH:

Play -> Find a Geocache -> Enter city/area/etc -> Search -> Map These Results -- Cache icons appear at the 'corrected' coords if they have corrected coords, otherwise they appear at the original 'listed' coords.

 

BROWSE:

Play -> View Geocache Map -- Cache icons appear at the original 'listed' coords.

 

So what ? There is a way bla bla bla... Is it to much to ask that the map always behaves the way it should ? I sure can do that. You too. But do we really all have to use tricks for normal things to happen ? Let's say someone shows me a the map full of mysery cache, I don't know how he landed on it. Am I seeing them at their corrected coordinates ? Are they even solved ? Come on, the mere fact that the map is tricky and not unambiguous speaks for itself : there is an issue with it !

As I mentioned in my "bla bla bla" post, it's still unfortunate that there isn't an indication of which icons are using corrected coords or original coords. My post did not imply that there isn't an issue.

 

I'm not convinced that always showing icons at their 'corrected coords' is the one-and-only way that the map should behave. I noted a couple examples of why I thought having an option to see caches at their original coords could be preferred in this post. These examples may not be important to many cachers and/or other cachers might have other reasons to want an option about corrected vs original coords.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want all map views to show caches ONLY at their corrected coords. My ideal would be that the browsing map has an option to toggle on/off corrected coords AND that icons with corrected coords have a clearly visible indicator on both browsing and search results maps. I'm hopeful such features will appear one day.

 

Sorry noncentric, I may have been rude but didn't want to hurt you. I appreciate that you try to find solutions and understand that you agree there's a problem. I just meant that we shouldn't even have to think about it. Whether I land on the map from here or there, it should behave the same way : the good one ! I'd be fine having the possibility to let finals being at fake coords for whatever reason, if I had the possibility to show caches where they actually are. It is already possible today coming from the new search page, Why couldn't it be possible to generalize ? I mean, when I'm on the map, GS does know who I am, if I'm a premium member, if the caches on my map have corrected coords... It's just a pity that nothing is done that people really demand.

Edited by Gillala
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I've already posted this in the General Geocaching Discussions forum, but since TPTB seems to be monitoring only this thread, let me repost this here. This is what our fellow cachers in Japan are seeing in the web site now. How many caches are there in this area?

 

15356719_1133265050124900_6531079663484187030_n.jpg?oh=95dc4fdf68c3c8aeab252f8538742021&oe=58B1AC1F

 

Four. What was so tough about that?

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Wow.. I am not saying I like or dislike the icons. But I've been banned for far tamer things than the Groundspeak bashing I've read here in this thread. :(

Edited by bflentje
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"Brings more design consistency to the Geocaching map" - does that mean that we can all hate it equally?

 

I've gone away from the site for a couple of days, come back, and yes, I still dislike it intensely. Zoomed in, the icons look too big and clumpy, and zoomed out it looks as as if the map has measles!

 

Please, please, stop 'fixing what isn't broken', and work on the issues that people have been telling you about for years.

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