Should Private Caches Be Allowed?

July 22, 2004

Should caches such as this one be allowed?

~Shaggy~

5.3k · July 22, 2004

If it's not available for us, why even post it online?

24.7k · July 22, 2004

It's an event cache with a short list of people that have been invited. Overall I think it's in poor taste but that it was placed for reasons that are honerable.

If he's inviting his elderly parents to learn how to use a GPS and how to find a waypoint and if his parents are hesitant to meet other cachers as the elderly can be in some situations, he's probably on the mark for doing the cache this way.

I'm speculating but that's my opinion based on what I can see about the cache.

It gives them the thrill of the find. One other thing is it's not good policy to second guess the approver and hider who worked out the details to get the cache approved. A lot of things happen behind the scenes and if everything came out you might agree with the cache. However it's the cache owners right to keep those reasons under the table. There may come a day when it's your cache that was approved but looks goofy that is under scrutiny.

2.4k · July 22, 2004

Should caches like that be allow? Certainly.

Should the be listed on a public website such as this one? Not in my opinion.

Edit to add: Not everyone reads cache descriptions before heading off for a cache, and assume that since this site required proper permission before listing a cache on private property, that permission has been granted for them to search for it. Granted, this one is listed as an event, but it still just doesn't seem right.

Edited July 22, 2004 by IV_Warrior

July 22, 2004

No. They should not have put it on the website. They should have just printed up a word document with the coords and invited everyone on the list.

3.9k · July 22, 2004

How does the fact that this cache is listed effect you one way or another? I don't see the issue. It's on private property but evidently placed with permission. It's public so the players can log their find online. Whether it's posted on the site or not doesn't change the fact that you can't hunt for it. This is the second time this has been done by the same cache owner. No skin off anyone's nose. What am I missing?

1.4k · July 22, 2004

Before everyone posts a SBA note on the page you should find out if GC.com is ok with this.

This would be a great way to get a ranger on the side of GC.com. A great way to annoy them would be a lot of SBA notes. Calm down until you know all the details.

7.3k · July 22, 2004

How did that even get approved?!?

2.8k · July 22, 2004

I don't see anything wrong with it, though if the folks that are going to find it aren't registered, I'm not sure of why it would need to be listed. If they are registered, it all makes sense to me.

2.1k · July 22, 2004

What is the problem here? geeezzz!

This IS a public site - as you stated - can't they use it too? How does it hurt you?

Looks like a good idea for some kids to me - would you take that away from them?

Your expected answer to that is "the kids are not the point - it is the use of this site". So, ah?, umm.. just who's site is it? Me thinks that the approver likely talked to someone 'in power' before he approved this one - doncha think?

Don't you have something more important to occupy your time?

If this was some private club (say like a hunting club) that might be making money on it, I might think about agreeing with you - but doesn't the real end-use here overshadow any 'unorthadox' use of the site?

You should be applauding RangerKim for the work he is doing here - I doubt he is getting paid.

edited to add - wow - there were two posts when I started my reply -

Edited July 22, 2004 by CompuCash

5.3k · July 22, 2004

Before everyone posts a SBA note on the page you should find out if GC.com is ok with this.

This would be a great way to get a ranger on the side of GC.com. A great way to annoy them would be a lot of SBA notes. Calm down until you know all the details.

Harrald is right. Discuss it here, not on the cache page.

Again, I don't think it should be listed on this site if it is not able to be hunted by the public. (I didn't like that silly VW Bug Rally cache over a year ago that required all participants to dirve a VW either)

2k · July 22, 2004

I'm glad you pointed that out. I had it in my GPSr but had to pass on going for it when I was in the area Tuesday.

Glad I didn't waste my time. I agree this should never have been posted. There are a few caches not too far from there that the owner could have used or placed the caches and passed out fliers.

2.2k · July 22, 2004

No. They should not have put it on the website. They should have just printed up a word document with the coords and invited everyone on the list.

i agree with this poster.

2.1k · July 22, 2004

--- Mollenhour Conservation Camp ----

In California this means kids that (put gently) are not allowed 'off the property'.

Guessing that this may be the case in IN (some one there please speak up) -

So, now - how many of you want them in YOUR back yard searching for a cache?

On that same note, don't think you wanna be 'on the property' but I'll bet you couldn't get on anyway unless you were family.

So what is the big deal here? Aren't there enough caches out there? What is so important about this one?

Edited July 22, 2004 by CompuCash

July 22, 2004

At first glance, I didn't think it was proper. But upon reading it and investigating a little further, I see that it is to introduce some troubled kids to something that could enrich their lives. I'm just guessing, but it looks like they not only want to introduce the kids to caching, but to using the website to log their find.

Wouldn't you feel good about introducing some kids to the fun we've experienced with geocaching? Gosh, I think I'd rather have the kids experiencing a good time with hiking and geocaching rather than doing something else that doesn't set so very well with society. I applaud the effort by RangerKim! -Ken

2.1k · July 22, 2004

At first glance, I didn't think it was proper. But upon reading it and investigating a little further, I see that it is to introduce some troubled kids to something that could enrich their lives. I'm just guessing, but it looks like they not only want to introduce the kids to caching, but to using the website to log their find.

Wouldn't you feel good about introducing some kids to the fun we've experienced with geocaching? Gosh, I think I'd rather have the kids experiencing a good time with hiking and geocaching rather than doing something else that doesn't set so very well with society. I applaud the effort by RangerKim! -Ken

THANK YOU !!!

3.9k · July 22, 2004

I had it in my GPSr but had to pass on going for it when I was in the area Tuesday.

At least that shows that it had at lease a negligible effect on someone, but other than that, I still don't see the problem. Torry had to drive by this one, sure that kinda sucks but is it really a big deal? I think posting a SBA note on the page is a gross overreaction. Starting a thread about is more appropriate. Can someone give me an example of how this greatly effects them? Have a coke and a smile and [self modded]

edit: CompuCache, one of us has to change our avitar. I keep thinking I'm you or you're me. Maybe it's time to change mine anyway I'm kinda bored with it. Oh, it looks good on you though.

Edited July 22, 2004 by JMBella

2.1k · July 22, 2004

Well at least there are three of us here.

July 22, 2004

I like the idea. Bring it on. If gc.com approved it, it must meet the guidlines. So what's the problem?

July 22, 2004

If gc.com approved it, it must meet the guidlines. So what's the problem?

If gc.com approved it, it must meet the guidlines.

That is not nessesarily true, sometimes mistakes are made or something is overlooked.

So what's the problem?

The problem is, this cache does not meet the guidelines.

Event caches

Event caches are gatherings for geocachers by geocachers to discuss geocaching. After the event has passed, the event cache is archived. While a music concert, a garage sale, a ham radio field day or an orienteering event might be of interest to a large percentage of geocachers, such events are not suitable for submission as event caches because the primary focus of these events is not geocaching and the primary attendees are not geocachers. In addition, an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches. Such group hunts are best organized using the forums or an email distribution list.

For geocaching events that involve several components, such as a day-long group cache hunt that also involves a seminar and dinner, only a single event cache covering all components should be submitted.

~Shaggy~

Edited July 22, 2004 by Shaggy of Mysteries Inc

3.9k · July 22, 2004

So what's the problem?

The problem is, this cache does not meet the guidelines.

Event caches

Event caches are gatherings for geocachers by geocachers to discuss geocaching. After the event has passed, the event cache is archived. While a music concert, a garage sale, a ham radio field day or an orienteering event might be of interest to a large percentage of geocachers, such events are not suitable for submission as event caches because the primary focus of these events is not geocaching and the primary attendees are not geocachers. In addition, an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches. Such group hunts are best organized using the forums or an email distribution list.

For geocaching events that involve several components, such as a day-long group cache hunt that also involves a seminar and dinner, only a single event cache covering all components should be submitted.

~Shagg

So, what's the problem?

July 22, 2004

As long as it gets archived shortly after so it doesn't keep showing up on peoples lists of caches to do, I don't see a problem with it. Anything that promotes geocaching is a good thing, right?

And so you are missing out on one cache claim....so what?!

July 22, 2004

The Camp's website

edit- by the way- go to the photo gallery and click on the bottom picture in the first column- I don't think firearm safety is a course in the type of camp most of you think this one is!

Edited July 22, 2004 by bobbyrockstar

1.5k · July 22, 2004

It doesn't really affect me, they make it very clear that it is not for the general public so I wouldn't have wasted time starting to look for it, but I have to admit after posting a query about series of caches that I wanted to place, limited to a certain group and being told that wasn't on, this does seem a bit at odds with that.... Yeah, yeah, I know...get off the fence...

5.3k · July 22, 2004

I have no problem with a caches that are private, There just as good as a major cache or even a general cache, but you have got to watch out for those Colonel caches

5.6k · July 22, 2004

I'm glad you pointed that out. I had it in my GPSr but had to pass on going for it when I was in the area Tuesday.

Glad I didn't waste my time. I agree this should never have been posted. There are a few caches not too far from there that the owner could have used or placed the caches and passed out fliers.

Maybe you should sort your caches before loading. It's listed as an event, so why have it unless you are attending the event?

Sorry, but I sounds like sour grapes to me. Do you complain about MOCs also?

Edited July 22, 2004 by The Jester

7.3k · July 22, 2004

I guess that I didn't look at it properly. I didn't realize that it was an event cache. That's a little different.

July 22, 2004

Yes

July 22, 2004

The Cleveland Metroparks has received permission in the past to set up various "temporary" event caches in support of park programs. In all of these cases, the caches were discussed with TPTB before they were listed. Each of them was only available for a couple of days and then archived.

I don't see a problem with the cache mentioned by the OP. If you want to claim it, contact the hider and volunteer to help. That would give you access.

1.8k · July 22, 2004

Should caches such as this one be allowed?

I'm sure we could all think of a hypothetical situation when a privately restricted cache would be an abomination to the sport. This one isn't!

July 22, 2004

I have deleted the SBA notes, there was no need for that, There were a lot of questions asked and was approved. End of story.

Tennessee Geocacher

July 22, 2004

This would be a great way to get a ranger on the side of GC.com. A great way to annoy them would be a lot of SBA notes. Calm down until you know all the details.

If my nick was "rangerrick" would you believe I was a "ranger" too?

What is the problem here? geeezzz!

This IS a public site - as you stated - can't they use it too? How does it hurt you?

Exactly. It's a PUBLIC site, oh except for the one out of place PRIVATE cache that all of the PUBLIC geocachers are supposed to ignore.

It doesn't "hurt" anyone it's simply poor taste. Would you put up an invitation on the bulletin board in a library or super market to invite a few friends over for a Birthday party?

Thorin

Edited July 22, 2004 by thorin

July 22, 2004

The coords are listed on the site, what's stopping anyone from finding it?

July 22, 2004

The coords are listed on the site, what's stopping anyone from finding it?

Maybe the fact "Cache is on private property"?

1.1k · July 22, 2004

I do not understand even why you would want ot list it at GC.com if you dont want folks to go find it. Also as it is on private property and the owner has give permission to place the cache but not permission for folks to find the cach then it violates the rules for placing a cache. BUT WHY LIST IT IN THE FIRST PLACE ugh.

cheers

3.5k · July 22, 2004

BUT WHY LIST IT IN THE FIRST PLACE ugh.

From the cache page:

Additional Hints (Encrypt)
You might want to use this to write your letter home on.

It looks to me like it's listed so the kids can log it and then later pull it up on the computer at home and say, "Look mom/dad/whoever, this is something I did while I was at camp!"

<sarcasm>Yeah...we have to put a stop to this sort of thing!</sarcasm>

C'mon, people, it's a 1/1 cache hidden for a camp that you can thank your lucky stars you don't NEED to be at. By the end of the summer the cache can be archived, the kids will have experienced this game we love so much and that one annoying cache you can't get off your "nearest list" will be gone.

And the entire world can breath a big sigh of relief...phew!

Bret

3.9k · July 22, 2004

Since the cache is listed as an event cache, I fail to see why anyone would load it in their PQs without reading the description.

It sounds like the entire idea was to teach young people our great hobby. In order to do it properly you would also need to teach them to research caches, and to log them on line. I think the idea is great. I also think the rest of the geocaching community should support activities such as this wholeheartly. I don't understand why some want to complain because they can't go play with the little kids. I take that back, I do understand...their acting like little kids.

Before anyone starts citing me the rules on Event caches, don't bother, I'm well versed on the rules. However there are exceptions to every rule.

El Diablo

7.2k · July 22, 2004

How many here didn't like the idea of a private cache yet think MOC are okay? Go ahead raise your hand.

July 22, 2004

No

I don't think it should be listed on this site if it is not able to be hunted by the public.

(I don't care whether small, tiny, sweet kids are involved or not)

1.4k · July 22, 2004

I'm confused. When did this listing site ask your input on this? An approver reviewed the cache listing, approved it and the owner of the listing service seems to be ok with it. That's it. End of story. This debate is not only silly it's a moot point.

July 22, 2004

I agree with Harrald. In the grand scheme of things, what difference does it make?

2.1k · July 22, 2004

Harold - CoyoteRed - El Diablo - CYBret

you are on the bottom here - others I thanked above - thanks

These are exactly the issues I raised way up there on top of this thread -

it should net even have been started -

The notes that were put in the log have been removed - they should not have been added their either.

Let's put this to bed already!

It was Approved -

It was posted -

If you don't like it, don't read it -

It was approved by the people who run this site -

It is THEIR site - if you don't like how this site is run,

use another one or start your own.

We are given a great resource here - for free! if you choose not to support it -

It does not affect you in the least unless you are participating -

This is a great hobby and you should be helping promote it, not tearing it down

or limiting it -

This one cache surely will not hurt your mega number standings.

Now, can we please move on?

3.9k · July 22, 2004

It sounds like the entire idea was to teach young people our great hobby. In order to do it properly you would also need to teach them to research caches, and to log them on line.

This entire thread should start and end with that one sentence.

BUT WHY LIST IT IN THE FIRST PLACE

Did you bother to read any part of this thread?

You people are insane! It's in poor taste, it's a private cache, this is a public site, wah, wah, wah.... GO FIND A CACHE!

July 22, 2004

Ummm just two minor mistakes.

It was approved by the people who run this site -

Actually it would have been approved by a volunteer not Jeremy.

It is THEIR site

It's Jeremy's site not the volunteer's site.

I know those are almost irrelevant to the topic but if you're gonna try and set someone straight at least be straight yourself.

Thorin

July 22, 2004

Should caches such as this one be allowed?

~Shaggy~

If the approver approved it - it's OK with me.

Feeling left out?

July 22, 2004

You people are insane!

that pretty much sums of the forums for the past year and a half.

edited code

Edited July 22, 2004 by dboggny

8.4k · July 22, 2004

I don't see a problem as it's an event. I certainly wouldn't show up to an event where I didn't belong. This seems to be a special case and I agree with listing it.

If it was a permanent cache, I would think it in poor taste, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

24.7k · July 22, 2004

Ignoring the cache in question (the cache is covered in an earlier post) and answering the title of the thread.

No, I think private caches in general are a bad idea to be listed in what is essentially listing site meant to display caches to the general public.

July 22, 2004

First let me say that the cache itself does not bother me, just the concept of caches that are illegal to find. If you hide a cache some one will try and find it. This cache will get someone in a lot of trouble.

Also jJust one really isn't a problem but allow one you have to allow them all. Soon we will have private caches all over. This could become a problem if there where many like it in your area and the first couple of pages of unfound caches where ones you where not allowed to find.

This is the same as caches that are missing or temporally archived. Can't go after them but they still show up in queries. People don't want these on there pages and have them archive because they are unavailable.

This cache is no different, it is not available to be found and therefor should be archived.

Team Sand Dollar

2.5k · July 22, 2004

I had thought about doing something similar to this with my high school classes....

I may be sorry that I asked, but I would like some input from experienced folks.

If the event would be approved----I planned to set up multiple caches in the general area of the school for two to four days to use to show my classes how the process works (We meet every other day for 90 minutes, so that would be two days for each class). I hoped that one or two of the caches might become permanent caches that the classes could help maintain as a public service.

I hadn't considered having the event closed to the public, but figured that not too many cachers would bother with an obvious "learning set" near a school--especially if they read the log before heading out. If a few people did stop by the caches during the learning period--so what? It would make it a more authentic experience for all concerned.

I was even hoping that some of the cachers who frequent the area might want to join us for some of the time.

Anyone have suggestions for how to do this without offending the geocaching community?

Should Private Caches Be Allowed?

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