Lighters in caches

March 21, 2003

Desk Jockey and I were caching last weekend and found a lighter in a cache. Please be responsible, don't leave lighters or matches in caches. The first time that some idiot starts a forest fire, or some kid dies from snorting butane from a lighter found in a cache, that'll be the end for this sport. Thanks.

March 21, 2003

PS - Obviously, we removed the lighter.

March 21, 2003

Not only do we want to keep from people using them to start fires and inhaling them, but we also don't want them there during the summer. People need to realize that if the temperature rises high enough the lighters can explode on their own.

March 21, 2003

But a lighter just goes along with the pack of cigarettes I usually leave..

24.7k · March 21, 2003

I've wondered about this. Still I've never walked back to my Bronco and found it engulfed in flames at the center of a forest fire due to the lighter or matches I keep in my glove box.

Most caches are hidden, are not in the direct sun and are placed against the cool ground. Candles melt in the summer, but I still don't know how hot they get.

Wherever you go there you are.

March 21, 2003

The only thing I recall ever seeing in regards to cache temperature, is that liquid based items (shampoo, bubbles, etc.) tend to expand when frozen and then crack. Then when the cache warms up, it leaves a mess.

I have never heard of anyone having any problems with caches getting too hot. The only place I can think where this would be a realistic problem would be perhaps in the desert, etc.

BTW, this has been discussed many times over in the threads if someone wants to try and Markwell us.

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

38.2k · March 21, 2003

I've left lighters and don't see anything wrong with it. OK, if I place a cache next to a playground swingset, then I wouldn't put a lighter. But for a cache in a remote area, I don't see an issue.

Your whole premise is pretty far fetched. Young children won't be wandering around the woods alone and teens can get a lighter or matches anywere. This is about as ridiculious as the person who said pocket knives were a bad idea because a prison road crew could find it and use the knife to overpower their guard.

As far as them potentially exploding, I've been driving for 30 years and usually have a lighter or two in my glove box. I guarantee it gets way hotter in my car on a sunny, 98 degree day, than it does in a cache hidden in a stump in the woods. Yet I've never had a lighter explode in my car, nor have I ever read of an instance of it happening anywhere.

In conclusion, I think lighters are great trade items and will continue to place them in my caches

and leave them in others.

The real danger is Mc Toys in caches. Children can find them and choke to death on them. Please, please do not place these potentially lethal items in a geocache!

"An appeaser is one who keeps feeding a crocodile-hoping it will eat him last" -Winston Churchill

38.2k · March 21, 2003

I've often placed small bags of balloons in geocaches. Then I read the story of a child who was chewing on one, accidently swallowed it and choked to death. I realized how irresponsible and dangerous it was for me to place balloons in caches, so I have stopped. I can only hope that one of my balloons doesn't cause the death of a child.

"An appeaser is one who keeps feeding a crocodile-hoping it will eat him last" -Winston Churchill

1.5k · March 21, 2003

In the future, just e-mail me with your cache contents concerns. I'll send you back a summary of all the responses that will be posted by the forum regulars.

2.6k · March 21, 2003

You know those things are dangerous... People may spend them on drugs which we all know suports terrorism. I don't want to suport terrorism so don't place where's george dollars in caches.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

March 21, 2003

Does that mean that grocery stores are harborers of weapons of mass destruction??

"If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there"

-George Harrison

March 21, 2003

SEEK HELP!

March 21, 2003

I placed a Brand New Zippo lighter in one of my caches but it had no fluid in it. Plus it wasn't in a cache that had grass land around it.

Actually I just wanted to post so I could see my new avatar!

P.S. Just to add to Jeremy's post (next post) I stated on my cache report that it was Brand New and still in the box and the approver knew that it had no fluid in it.

No one is listening until you make a mistake.

[This message was edited by Roadster on March 21, 2003 at 12:33 PM.]

1.1k · March 21, 2003

I don't know if it is necessary to inject some common sense into this topic, but my personal recommendation would be not to put a lighter into a cache when another object would do just as nicely.

The official stance on geocaching.com is that lighters don't have their place in geocaches. It's a general safety issue and a good blanket policy. If you list it as a trade item on a cache report, you will be asked to remove the lighter before it is listed on the site.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

March 21, 2003

Apparently concerns can't be voiced without some individuals blowing them out of proportion. Yes it is entirely possible for children to stumble upon caches, and have access to their contents. This has happened many times, as is evidenced in many logs. I am shocked by the irresponsibility evidenced by some of you. To Jeremy and the other responsible members of our group - thanks.

March 21, 2003

I just bought a waterproof match container (without matches) to leave. Is that ok?

My name is Mudd!

1.5k · March 21, 2003

Blah blah blah, what about the parents, blah blah blah, anything can be dangerous under the right conditions, blah blah blah, too many rules blah blah blah...

2.6k · March 21, 2003

Don't trade and make them log only. That's fine with me.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

March 21, 2003

Personally I do not see the danger of lighters or matches, most zippo lighters are child-proof. Anyway who (parents) with children small enough to harm themselves with such items, let this kids roam unsupervised into these remote areas in the first place?

Who is the irresponsibile one here?

The most dangerous weapon in a prison is a (drumroll) pencil, more inmates are stabbed with this weapon then any other, and how many of us are placing them into caches?

I think some of us needs to grow up.

5.9k · March 21, 2003

If I were a lost child in the woods, I would be happy beyond belief to find a lighter. A pocket knife would rock too. Of course, a steak would go along nicely as well...

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

March 21, 2003

I give up. Some people are just irresponsible, and that won't change.

March 21, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Snazz:
Blah blah blah, _what about the parents_, blah blah blah, _anything can be dangerous under the right conditions_, blah blah blah, _too many rules_ blah blah blah...

Ah, if only they could all be virtuals. Then we wouldn't have any problems at all!

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A

March 21, 2003

Jeremy wrote, "The official stance on geocaching.com is that lighters don't have their place in geocaches. It's a general safety issue and a good blanket policy."

And I agree that it is a good general safety rule.

It is not just a kid safety issue, just common sense to me. There are too many items that are approriate for our caches to risk putting in one that may cause a problem. And there may be some personal liability issues as well.

I have flouted the wild, I have followed its lure, fearless. familar, alone; yet the wild must win,

and a day will come when I shall be overthrown. By: Robert Service

March 21, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Accident_Prone_Hiker:
I give up. Some people are just irresponsible, and that won't change.

You'll find that folks like us are in the minority. I for one would not even consider putting a lighter or anything similar in a cache.

_________________________________________________________

On the other hand, you have different fingers.

March 21, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Accident_Prone_Hiker:
Desk Jockey and I were caching last weekend and found a lighter in a cache. Please be responsible, don't leave lighters or matches in caches. The first time that some idiot starts a forest fire, or some kid dies from snorting butane from a lighter found in a cache, that'll be the end for this sport. Thanks.

I was reading the board today and found a request to potentially modify my behaviour. It accuses me of being irresponsible were I to act in a reasonable fashion. It suggests I'm responsible for others actions, such as those of idiots and unsupervised kids. It goes on to say that'll be the end of our sport.

Please anyone agreeing with the original stated premise, never drive anywhere, your car might slide on leaves, sand, or wet pavement and hit me or another, potentially maiming or killing one or more of us! Please refrain from hiking, you might slip on uneven terrain and hurt yourself! Don't eat anything, you might be poisoned! Don't breathe, you might contract a virus! Come on--lets apply reason here!

I actually have found a lighter in a cache and was delighted to trade for it--not being a smoker, my matches and lighters come from restaurants or lost lighters in parking lots. As a disposable item of limited lifespan, I think its a great trade item.

I can appreciate the website discouraging such (and it SHOULD in my mind to reduce liability), just as it's official stance is to assume permission has been obtained for placed caches (could you imagine how quickly our sport would end if litter law fines were charged against all cache placers?)

But on the philosophy of the public sheltering individuals from potential hazards, I say take responsibility for your OWN actions. This is a dangerous trend that has recently come up in our society that needs to be nipped in the bud.

I tried to resist posting, but the soapbox beckoned...(did nobody else read Aesop's Fables?)

Randy

PS: This is a publicly posted message, not directed at any individual...

1.5k · March 21, 2003

I think something to remember is that not all caches or caching sites are created equal. Certainly, a lighter is probably not appropriate for a cache near a major urban area, where it is possible for children to come across a cache. But in some areas, caches are a long way from "civilization" and if there are children running around unsupervised, the parents (and possibly the children too) have much larger problems than finding a lighter in a cache. On the practical side however, what fun is a lighter unless it is a souvenir one? IMHO caching “goodies” should be interesting and/or fun.

“Stir”…. “Stir”…..

2.3k · March 21, 2003

I guess you could just log: "Took one item, left one item", and leave it at that. If the next Geocacher doesn't want it, they don't have to take it, or if they feel it needs to go, then they can trade something for it and get rid of the offending item. We all have differnt opinions of what should or should not be left, so to each his own. Even if a lighter blew up in an ammo box down here in the 112 degree Arizona heat, there's no way it could start a fire inside an airtight container. I have had flammables inside my truck in 120+ degrees and nothing has happened. Listing the original contents of a cache? Forget it. I stopped doing this long ago. Could be a problem for you getting it on the board and the items will be changed out soon enough to change the list completely.

March 21, 2003

Ok, a zippo lighter is bad because it could start fires or explode, (not sure how an unfilled zippo could explode), but a while back everybody and their brother seemed to approve shotglasses? OK, this makes sense. Expell the lighters, but condone and support alcoholism!!!! I'm with the people who say in 1 way or another, everything can be considered a danger, even a feather. Somebody opens a cache with a feather, has an alergic reactions, goes tits up right there in the woods.

9.4k · March 21, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Weasel:
Somebody...goes tits up right there in the woods.

Getting your boobys trapped in a cache was on another thread.

March 21, 2003

RJFerret said it all, way to go! Be responsible for my own actions........what a wonderful concept! . I put a box cutter in my cache and asked that no one takes it on a plane! It was meant to be a little sarcastic but do I need to put a liabilty waiver in the cache?

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=59063

"The three little sentences that will get you through life. Number one, 'Cover for me'. Number two, 'Oh, good idea boss'. Number three, 'It was like that when I got here'."

March 21, 2003

I would have origionally not had any problem with lighters in a cache. For crying out loud, it wasn't all that long ago (ok, twenty years) that I was in high school and I carried a pocket knife every day. (Nope, never cut anyone, never robbed a bank, never sacrificed any cats, etc.) And the only time I heard of a lighter "blowing up" was a firefighter had one (a plastic type with fluid in it) burst and burn him while fighting a fire (thats truely haveing "hot pants!!). However, Jeremy has spoken and while I'm not just a blind follower, I do like to abide by the rules. Sooo, I will not put lighters in caches. However, that being said,,,,don't anyone dare take it upon yourselfs to poke through my caches and radomly take out anything unless your trading for it. (Just because you "think" it may be dangerous in some circumstance.) If you think that way, e-mail me and discuss it with me. I may not even know it's in there and if I agree with you and it's still there, I'll take care of it. But don't declare yourself a "cache police" and be taking things unless you want to have everyone on the web know your tendencies. Lets face it, even a snake bite kit has a scapel blade in them.......hope a prison road crew doesn't find it!! (Whew, got that off my chest...now on to the rest of the posts!!)

We're going on a treasure hunt...we're not quite sure just where...but with our trusty GPS, we'll find a cache stashed there!!

By Daughter Cheryl

3.9k · March 21, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Weasel:
Ok, a zippo lighter is bad because it could start fires or explode, (not sure how an unfilled zippo could explode), but a while back everybody and their brother seemed to approve shotglasses? OK, this makes sense. Expell the lighters, but condone and support alcoholism!!!! I'm with the people who say in 1 way or another, everything can be considered a danger, even a feather. Somebody opens a cache with a feather, has an alergic reactions, goes tits up right there in the woods.

I have a sad story to tell. My wife and I were out hunting a cache, her with her Garmin Vista...me with an E-trex. We looked high and low before we finally spotted it!

Inside we found a bic lighter, a shot glass and a feather...oh yeah also a Mac-D toy and a Where's George dollar.

As we explored the contents of the cache, she picked up the feather and had an allergic reaction to it and went breast up in the woods (better than tits up).

While I sat there wondering what to do, I grabbed the lighter and lit a cigarrette. I then retrieved the shot glass and pulled out my hip flask and had a couple while playing with the Mac-D toy and pondering the situation.

In the end I did as any true cacher would do....I pried the Vista out of her hand and signed the log book. "Took the where's George and left wife"

This story has as much chance of being true as a bic lighter does exploding in a cache!

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

March 21, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Weasel:
I'm with the people who say in 1 way or another, everything can be considered a danger, even a feather. Somebody opens a cache with a feather, has an alergic reactions, goes tits up right there in the woods.

Plus the dreaded possibility of being "Tickled to Death"

2.6k · March 21, 2003

The first cache I found with my brand new GPSr last November had a lighter in it, which was good, since it was getting dark already and I was able to sign the logbook only in the light of the lighter flame.

- All you need is a sick mind and a healthy body. -

March 21, 2003

We found the coolest butan lighter in a cache the other day! Had to buy some butan but now it's part of our firstaid/survival kit! Don't leave home without it .

24.7k · March 21, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Snazz:
In the future, just e-mail me with your cache contents concerns. I'll send you back a summary of all the responses that will be posted by the forum regulars.

So could you of nailed my response?

Wherever you go there you are.

24.7k · March 21, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Accident_Prone_Hiker:

Apparently concerns can't be voiced without some individuals blowing them out of proportion. Yes it is entirely possible for children to stumble upon caches, and have access to their contents. This has happened many times, as is evidenced in many logs. I am shocked by the irresponsibility evidenced by some of you. To Jeremy and the other responsible members of our group - thanks.

For the record, I do take the lighters out of caches for the same reasons. Though the one that really gets me is ammo.

Wherever you go there you are.

March 21, 2003

People who are concerned about official policy or who think lighters in caches are unsafe won't place a lighter.

People who think lighters in caches are safe and value placing one in a cache more than they value official policy probably will place a lighter.

Neither group is likely to change the other's mind.

rayt333 - you said most Zippos are childproof. Maybe you were thinking of another brand? Zippos have the flip-open lid with the big thumbwheel. Watch what can happen When Zippos Go Bad.

Roadster your no-fluid Zippo got approved, but did it have a flint in it? I don't know where your cache is, but it seems that under the right summer conditions, simply sparking a lighter could start a brushfire.

3.1k · March 21, 2003

I am past the collecting trinkets stage. But I collect lighters every time.

I hear voices.....and they don't like you!

March 22, 2003

Ok here it goes…

Today is a day that will live in infamy. Smart bombs

are killing innocent people, and we are are arguing about lighters in geocaches…..............

it’s a sad day……….

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=57723

if there was a lighter in this cache. Do you think it would be topic for discusion?

March 22, 2003

quote:
Apparently concerns can't be voiced without some individuals blowing them out of proportion. Yes it is entirely possible for children to stumble upon caches, and have access to their contents. This has happened many times, as is evidenced in many logs. I am shocked by the irresponsibility evidenced by some of you.

I hope you do not keep lighters or matches in your home,what if some kids broke in to your house,they might get hurt. remove all knives,pointed objects,plastic bags,guns,ammo,etc. I guess you better take everything out of everything because some idiot might get hurt. GET A LIFE!

I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess.

March 22, 2003

While you're pulling lighters, pull one of our favorite cache finds as well...magnifying lenses.

People seem remarkably afraid of children. They burn down forests, cut each other with pocket-knives, shoot up caches, etc.

Let's ban children from caches as they seem to pose the most significant threat to the sport.

March 22, 2003

quote:
Think of the children...

While you're pulling lighters, pull one of our favorite cache finds as well...magnifying lenses.

People seem remarkably afraid of children. They burn down forests, cut each other with pocket-knives, shoot up caches, etc.

Let's ban children from caches as they seem to pose the most significant threat to the sport.

THW-AAAPPP!!!

Yeah! with only 7 posts, the newbie lays down the SMACK!!

Art

www.yankeetoys.org

www.BudBuilt.com

http://www.ttora-ne.mainpage.net/

March 22, 2003

Bic lighters? I dont think so, i wouldnt leave one in a cache simple because thats so cheap. I can buy one of those from the gas station for 49 cents.

But a really cool zippo i can see. Ive been tempted recently to leave my rather rare zippo in a cache (it doesnt even have fluid you nitpickers) but i cant bring myself to get rid of it.

[Episkipos Enos Shenk, KSC]

[http://enos.deviantart.com]

3.4k · March 22, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

quote:
Originally posted by The Weasel:
Somebody...goes tits up right there in the woods.

Getting your boobys trapped in a cache was on another thread.

Finally! Some common sense.

Long live anarchy!

March 22, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by El Diablo:
In the end I did as any true cacher would do....I pried the Vista out of her hand and signed the log book. "Took the where's George and left wife"

I have to ask if you consider that "trading up"??

Hehe.. {silly grin}

Randy

PS: Yes, justa' silly joke, no offense intended!

PPS: Then again, you coulda' tattoed a number on her and started the "Where's Wife?" website!

1.4k · March 22, 2003

Lighters, condoms, viagra, religious items, cigarettes, old Hustler magazines, alchohol...

I don't think there's any good reason to include any of these items. It's a family activity folks. I'm hardly a prude but I don't want my kids stumbling across this stuff -- they're going to learn about it soon enough. You can argue till the cows come home that everyone has a right to make up their own mind about what to take and what to leave but some items are simply not appropriate.

The argument that kids might find the cache is very valid -- as is indicated in the recent Cache Book Found... discussion where a group of 12 year olds found a cache and split up the contents.

Having said this... I'd very much appreciate a nice bottle of Glen Livett in a cache after hiking 4 hours to the top of a mountain.

-----

March 22, 2003

I don't bother leaving lighters because the road flares I put in caches are self-lighting.

------------------------------

Have you had your house checked for Rae Dawn Chong?

9.4k · March 22, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Enos Shenk, KSC:
Bic lighters? I dont think so, i wouldnt leave one in a cache simple because thats so cheap. I can buy one of those from the gas station for 49 cents.

Most cache trinkets cost little, lighters are worth much more than most of that other crap no matter how much you paid for the lighter.

3.9k · March 22, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by RJFerret:

I have to ask if you consider that "trading up"??

Hehe.. {silly grin}

Randy

PS: Yes, justa' silly joke, no offense intended!

PPS: Then again, you coulda' tattoed a number on her and started the "Where's Wife?" website!

Well I did attach a travel bug to her

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

Lighters in caches

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment