+snow_rules Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 With all the discussion on FTF records, most finds in a day, Virtual caches, challenges, etc I wonder if geocaching needs a governing body that defines what a cache is, what a find is, etc GC.com and the other sites have stated they are just listing sites but they also appear to make rules that fit their site. For example GC.com says that Wherigo are caches but other sites don't, other sites say virtual are caches this site doesn't. GC.com has a proximity rule (not sure of other sites). GC.com doesn't recognize FTF others might. I could see this governing body being made up of representatives from listing sites and cachers from different areas of the country and world. To have valid records (most finds, most FTF, etc)the site of the finds would have to conform to the geocaching governing board. For example if QR code scans were not a recognized cache type, I could not say I have the world record for most caches in a day by scanning and recording 3000 QR codes. Quote Link to comment
+Totem Clan Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Geocaching is a real-world, outdoor treasure hunting game using GPS-enabled devices. Participants navigate to a specific set of GPS coordinates and then attempt to find the geocache (container) hidden at that location. That is 'governed pretty well. All the rest is just so many little sides games. Why should GC.com give a carp about governing them? Quote Link to comment
+Flintstone5611 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) Of course not. We don't need a committee to count our body hair or to figure to how many hops to cross the country. Because those things don't matter either. This is a non-competitive hobby, you can't win at it. At least not officially. Edited December 10, 2012 by Flintstone5611 Quote Link to comment
+JesseVader08 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Why do we have to over think this? I'm just going to respect the reasonable guidelines already established and have fun. Quote Link to comment
+pppingme Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 If the main listing site would never submit to a governing body (I'd bet money on this), then what good would forming one do? Sadly, people equate this listing site as being the "governing body" of geocaching. Even if one were formed and said (lets not argue this point, its an example) "Virtuals are real caches, and therefore should be listed and searched", this site would still never list them, so what good is a body that no one will submit to as an authority? Once you break the bad concept that this site is the only place to find caches, such a concept may gain some traction. Quote Link to comment
+snow_rules Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 If there was an actual governing body then you could go to Guinness World record and actually have a valid world record for any record. If the main site elected not to participate and all the other sites did, I would predict that people would flock to the other sites to have official stats. If someone would submit a request to have a world record today, Guinness would ask who is the governing body of that sport and since there isn't they would probably pass on stating a world record. Most sports type hobbies have an governing organization that establish some set of rules. Quote Link to comment
+GrievousAngel Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 If there was an actual governing body then you could go to Guinness World record and actually have a valid world record for any record. If the main site elected not to participate and all the other sites did, I would predict that people would flock to the other sites to have official stats. If someone would submit a request to have a world record today, Guinness would ask who is the governing body of that sport and since there isn't they would probably pass on stating a world record. Most sports type hobbies have an governing organization that establish some set of rules. Another good reason to answer No to the original question. Quote Link to comment
+NeverSummer Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Where on earth did I put that graphic of my head exploding...? Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 No. +1 Quote Link to comment
+fizzymagic Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I could see this governing body being made up of representatives from listing sites and cachers from different areas of the country and world. To have valid records (most finds, most FTF, etc)the site of the finds would have to conform to the geocaching governing board. For example if QR code scans were not a recognized cache type, I could not say I have the world record for most caches in a day by scanning and recording 3000 QR codes. No, what geocaching needs is fewer hypercompetitive jerks. Your recommendation would just make it worse. Quote Link to comment
+The Blorenges Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 No, it doesn't, thank you. If there was an actual governing body then you could go to Guinness World record and actually have a valid world record for any record. If the main site elected not to participate and all the other sites did, I would predict that people would flock to the other sites to have official stats. If someone would submit a request to have a world record today, Guinness would ask who is the governing body of that sport and since there isn't they would probably pass on stating a world record. Most sports type hobbies have an governing organization that establish some set of rules. "Sport (or, in the United States and Canada, sports) is all forms of competitive physical activity which,through casual or organised participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical ability and provide entertainment to participants." Personally, I don't think geocaching is a sport - and I wouldn't want it become defined as one. It's just a recreational pastime. MrsB Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 If some people want to make a competition of a non-competitive outdoor recreational activity, they can. Most of us are happy just finding caches. Quote Link to comment
+St.Matthew Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 other sites say virtual are caches this site doesn't. Is this even true? Quote Link to comment
AZcachemeister Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Try fist. Quote Link to comment
+DadOf6Furrballs Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Try fist. Six does NOT make a herd, I tell ya... Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I'm a member of a couple other sites (lurker mostly) and didn't see this question posted on their forums. That would be a good way to start your quest. I believe the responses would be the same. Quote Link to comment
+ArcherDragoon Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 With all the discussion on FTF records, most finds in a day, Virtual caches, challenges, etc I wonder if geocaching needs a governing body that defines what a cache is, what a find is, etc GC.com and the other sites have stated they are just listing sites but they also appear to make rules that fit their site. For example GC.com says that Wherigo are caches but other sites don't, other sites say virtual are caches this site doesn't. GC.com has a proximity rule (not sure of other sites). GC.com doesn't recognize FTF others might. I could see this governing body being made up of representatives from listing sites and cachers from different areas of the country and world. To have valid records (most finds, most FTF, etc)the site of the finds would have to conform to the geocaching governing board. For example if QR code scans were not a recognized cache type, I could not say I have the world record for most caches in a day by scanning and recording 3000 QR codes. Nope... Quote Link to comment
+nthacker66 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I don't know why I even bother to make this reply because I know the answer - but it just amuses me to see someone post a topic, mainly benign but worthy of a discussion, and it is the same people time and time again who come back here with arrogant, rude and condescending responses. Quote Link to comment
+K13 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I hereby submit myself as Supreme Potentate of this unformed 'Governing Body'. When I take Office, I promise: 2 FTFs for every cacher better swag for traders Power Trails for everyone, everywhere an end to LPC hides A return of Virtuals I promise everything you want in caching!! (This is how the real politicians do it, isn't it?) Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I will not only take the dissenting opinion, but will gladly volunteer as said governing body. My opinion rules. Quote Link to comment
+captnemo Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I hereby submit myself as Supreme Potentate of this unformed 'Governing Body'. When I take Office, I promise: 2 FTFs for every cacher better swag for traders Power Trails for everyone, everywhere an end to LPC hides A return of Virtuals I promise everything you want in caching!! (This is how the real politicians do it, isn't it?) You lost my ten votes (I stuff ballot boxes) with the power trails for everyone Quote Link to comment
+UMainah Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Is the Geocaching Association of Great Britain(GAGB) something similar to this? Does Groundspeak work with GAGB? I'm in the US, so I don't know anything about how geocaching works across the pond, but it seems like GAGB is more than just another regional geocaching organization. http://gagb.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 With all the discussion on bingo records, highest player score records, highest board score records, bluffing, challenges, memorization of obscure 2-letter words, using a "normal" dictionary vs the OED vs the Official SCRABBLE® Players Dictionary, etc., I wonder if Scrabble needs a governing body that defines what a word is, what a bingo is, etc.It turns out that there is a governing body for Scrabble. Actually, there are multiple governing bodies for scrabble. Most scrabble players ignore them all. If you feel a need to create a governing body for FTF competitions, for numbers runs, or for geocaching as a whole, you are free to do so. Most geocachers will ignore it. Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Dang, I have been playing scrabble for almost 50 years and never knew that. Quote Link to comment
+geodarts Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) Even if one were formed and said (lets not argue this point, its an example) "Virtuals are real caches, and therefore should be listed and searched", this site would still never list them, so what good is a body that no one will submit to as an authority? Groundspeak does not even follow the rules set forth by our state parks (California) for geocaching, so it is hard to imagine them following a "governing body" that would dictate their listings. The Powers That Be are the Powers That Be and are unlikely to give up their position for anything short of a coup. Nevertheless, it could be helpful for all the side games. As a fan of professional darts, I can verify that things can get confusing when there are two competing world championships. Should we let this happen here? With a governing body, before claiming the record for most caches in one day, you would have a place to submit your blood tests to ensure that the record is untarnished by performance enhancing substances. Standards could be in place to ensure that there is a neutral time keeper, the logs are verified, and that the method of finding the caches are the same. Before claiming a first for anything, you could check to see what is the official definition of a first, a find, and whether the log has to be signed with a pencil or pen (or will blood do if the pen is lost?). A governing body could also answer such pertinent questions as whether a find for a cache on one site counts as a first if the cache has already been logged on another site. We could all agree on who has the most finds in total rather than run the risk of competing statistics (do people keep track of such things on other sites?). And then we could start to post forum topics complaining about the governing body, which would keep things interesting around here. Edited December 10, 2012 by geodarts Quote Link to comment
+Maple Leaf Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Is the Geocaching Association of Great Britain(GAGB) something similar to this? Does Groundspeak work with GAGB? I'm in the US, so I don't know anything about how geocaching works across the pond, but it seems like GAGB is more than just another regional geocaching organization. http://gagb.co.uk/ Thanks for mentioning the GAGB. The GAGB is certainly not a governing body, but is there as a local contact and resource site for people in the UK and Ireland - whether that be geocachers, landowners, media, organisations etc. The association was established in 2003 to provide a voice for its members in the United Kingdom with the aim of establishing good Geocaching practices, providing a focal point for public liaison and supporting the growth and enjoyment of Geocaching within the UK. It will be the associations 10 year anniversary this year and we are hoping to reach out to more cachers in the UK and Ireland and provide more resources and benefits for the members. We do have a good relationship with Groundspeak (headquarters and our local reviewers) - especially when it comes to landowner agreements. Jen Maple Leaf GAGB Chairman 2012/2013 Quote Link to comment
+Bobo Frett Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) Deleted my post as Maple Leaf worded it much better than I! Edited December 10, 2012 by Bobo Frett Quote Link to comment
+Ma & Pa Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 If you feel a need to create a governing body for FTF competitions, for numbers runs, or for geocaching as a whole, you are free to do so. Most geocachers will ignore it. So maybe those who are interested in the various competitive aspects of geocaching can start their own website to keep track of everything and create their own governing body to make important decisions and resolve conflicts. And leave the rest of us out of it. PAul Quote Link to comment
+K13 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I hereby submit myself as Supreme Potentate of this unformed 'Governing Body'. When I take Office, I promise: 2 FTFs for every cacher better swag for traders NO Power Trails for everyone, everywhere NOBODY, NOWHERE an end to LPC hides A return of Virtuals I promise everything you want in caching!! (This is how the real politicians do it, isn't it?) You lost my ten votes (I stuff ballot boxes) with the power trails for everyone Is that more to your liking? My constituency has spoken! I need those votes! Quote Link to comment
+GeoTrekker26 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 If there was an actual governing body then you could go to Guinness World record and actually have a valid world record for any record. If the main site elected not to participate and all the other sites did, I would predict that people would flock to the other sites to have official stats. If someone would submit a request to have a world record today, Guinness would ask who is the governing body of that sport and since there isn't they would probably pass on stating a world record. Most sports type hobbies have an governing organization that establish some set of rules. Really? How about hang-gliding, para-sailing, base-jumping, spelunking, rock-climbing, white water rafting, beach combing, wake boarding, etc, etc? Note that some such activities may have competitions and there are likely rules for those competitions. That doesn't mean those rules come from a body that governs that particular hobby or activity. Note that most sports are competitions and are not hobbies. While there is a large subset of cachers, such as yourself, who enjoy the statistics the vast majority consider caching as an enjoyable non competitive hobby. Even a hobby can be measured and have goals if the hobby participant desires. A stamp collector may take pride in how many first day issues she has collected. That doesn't make it a competitive hobby and as a collector I would not be the least bit interested in how many she has collected. Nor does there need to be a governing body that defines and keeps track of her collection. Quote Link to comment
+dakboy Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 If there was an actual governing body then you could go to Guinness World record and actually have a valid world record for any record. Guinness sets their own criteria & certification process. And is largely useless now, has been for over a decade. Quote Link to comment
+Sol seaker Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I will not only take the dissenting opinion, but will gladly volunteer as said governing body. My opinion rules. I for one, will gladly accept your governing body. Other than that, I think things are best left as is. I think I like just a touch of anarchy, and I don't like the competitiveness. Anyway, I'd like to see how fast the Guiness book of world records would get tired of running out and watching every time someone thought they would break the record for finds in a day on a power trail. I could see that getting really old really quick. You realize they'd have to see every cache find, which means jumping out of the car and seeing every signature for 24 hours. Oh yeah, this could be funny with the older judges. Then we will hear all over the forums how the observers slowed them down, that they would ha e gotten so many more, etc. Etc. Such great drama and something new on the forums:maybe I should change my vote. Quote Link to comment
+GeoTrekker26 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 With all the discussion on FTF records, most finds in a day, Virtual caches, challenges, etc I wonder if geocaching needs a governing body that defines what a cache is, what a find is, etc GC.com and the other sites have stated they are just listing sites but they also appear to make rules that fit their site. For example GC.com says that Wherigo are caches but other sites don't, other sites say virtual are caches this site doesn't. GC.com has a proximity rule (not sure of other sites). GC.com doesn't recognize FTF others might. I could see this governing body being made up of representatives from listing sites and cachers from different areas of the country and world. To have valid records (most finds, most FTF, etc)the site of the finds would have to conform to the geocaching governing board. For example if QR code scans were not a recognized cache type, I could not say I have the world record for most caches in a day by scanning and recording 3000 QR codes. BTW, nice post. I'm sure this will generate a lot of follow up posts. Maybe we can have a competition for the post with the most replies, the fast growing post, the quickest to be locked, the one with the most moderator participation... Wow a new game... Quote Link to comment
+T.D.M.22 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 We don't need it. For one thing Geocaching.com is the largest and most popular so wouldn't they have more say? So we would still have the same rules. Now what about FTF on cross listed caches? I go here tomorrow and get FTF on a newly published cache. Then next month it's published on another site-and someone else gets FTF on that site? do both get the FTF? Does it count as 2 caches? Do I get 2 finds for finding it once and logging it twice? Too many what if's. Really I think if you have a problem with the way things are done, go to another site, or create your own. Quote Link to comment
+T.D.M.22 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 ...other sites say virtual are caches this site doesn't... Where does it say virtuals are not caches? They are, you can log them. You just can't create them anymore. That's like saying they stopped making the Ford Crown Victoria(cop car) so it's not considered a car anymore. I will not only take the dissenting opinion, but will gladly volunteer as said governing body. My opinion rules. Will a couple of Milkbones allow me a virtual?? Quote Link to comment
+Snoogans Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 For brevity: No. My long winded sarcastic reply.... What do you mean by governing body? Like if you don't take the mark of the governing body"s sigile, pay dues, make an oath of fealty, and flagellate ourselves after every DNF, then we can't play? Sure. I'd love to have a governing body that gives no value added to our sport/hobby/activity. There is already a Geocacher's Creed that no one pays attention to so why not a governing body right? Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment
+Sharks-N-Beans Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 If you feel a need to create a governing body for FTF competitions, for numbers runs, or for geocaching as a whole, you are free to do so. Most geocachers will ignore it. So maybe those who are interested in the various competitive aspects of geocaching can start their own website to keep track of everything and create their own governing body to make important decisions and resolve conflicts. And leave the rest of us out of it. PAul +1 Works well for the Extreme Caching types. Quote Link to comment
+Maingray Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 The problem with any "governing body" are that usually the "my way = only way" types get in charge and push their own agenda. And anyway, if Snoogans if offering flagellation, I'm in. Quote Link to comment
+Totem Clan Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 If you feel a need to create a governing body for FTF competitions, for numbers runs, or for geocaching as a whole, you are free to do so. Most geocachers will ignore it. So maybe those who are interested in the various competitive aspects of geocaching can start their own website to keep track of everything and create their own governing body to make important decisions and resolve conflicts. And leave the rest of us out of it. PAul ...and if you don't like that site, you can start another one. ...and if you don't like that site, you can start another one. ...and if you don't like that site, you can start another one. ...and if you don't like that site, you can start another one. ...and if you don't like that site, you can start another one. ...and if you don't like that site, you can start another one. ...and if you don't like that site, you can start another one. Quote Link to comment
+nthacker66 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 One thing that is a perfect constant in these forums is the unwavering hypocrisy! Quote Link to comment
+the4dirtydogs Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I'm in and think this is a great idea. Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 The problem with any "governing body" are that usually the "my way = only way" types get in charge and push their own agenda. And anyway, if Snoogans if offering flagellation, I'm in. With apologies to Inigo Montoya; flagellation, you keep using this word, but I do not think it means what you think it means. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 With all the discussion on FTF records, most finds in a day, Virtual caches, challenges, etc I wonder if geocaching needs a governing body that defines what a cache is, what a find is, etc GC.com and the other sites have stated they are just listing sites but they also appear to make rules that fit their site. For example GC.com says that Wherigo are caches but other sites don't, other sites say virtual are caches this site doesn't. GC.com has a proximity rule (not sure of other sites). GC.com doesn't recognize FTF others might. I could see this governing body being made up of representatives from listing sites and cachers from different areas of the country and world. To have valid records (most finds, most FTF, etc)the site of the finds would have to conform to the geocaching governing board. For example if QR code scans were not a recognized cache type, I could not say I have the world record for most caches in a day by scanning and recording 3000 QR codes. BTW, nice post. I'm sure this will generate a lot of follow up posts. Yup! Sure did! Quote Link to comment
+lookout. Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't know why I even bother to make this reply because I know the answer - but it just amuses me to see someone post a topic, mainly benign but worthy of a discussion, and it is the same people time and time again who come back here with arrogant, rude and condescending responses. so the question remains... why did you? Quote Link to comment
+Road Rabbit Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I, for one, feel no need for further governance. This brings to mind the futile attempt to apply rules and bylaws to the time honored pastime of bean bag. It started well, but ended badly at the last attempted championship. According to William C. Dukenfield: “ … it becomes very exciting at times. I saw the championship played in Paris; many people were killed.” Not quite the ending we desire for geocaching, I expect. Quote Link to comment
+Team Triggerfinger Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I see the competitiveness of it as a downside. For instance....I've seen a geocaching race where cachers team up with each other. One is the driver and the other is the finder. The finder jumps out and stamps the log with his signature stamp (and the driver's stamp, too). Mind you, the driver never even got out of the vehicle or saw the cache, but yet his signature stamp is on it. All this to win a contest. To each his own, I guess. Quote Link to comment
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