+Blind Avocado Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I have come up with a design for my personal geocoin. The only thing stopping me (besides the cost) is the Tigger image that I use for my wife, the Tigger Lady. Here is the design. Does anybody know if it is possible for an individual to use a copyrighted image for a non-profit project (I will not sell any coins, they will be trade only)? How would I go about getting Disney's OK to use it legally? I know Disney is very protective of their copyrights, and I would hate to get a nasty letter from their legal dept. Quote Link to comment
+IceCreamMan Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Disney is ruthless about defending their trademarks. I've heard of people being unable to get a printing company to do anything with any disney character on it, buttons, t-shirts, etc. I'm guessing you'd have trouble getting a coin maker to do it. Quote Link to comment
+AtlantaGal Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 It can't hurt to try but be sure you NEVER sell for a profit EVER... That means no eBay. You'll be toast if you do. I use a copyrighted image on my personal coins that are for non-profit use. But I don't think Penn State is as ruthless as Disney might be. Quote Link to comment
+AtlantaGal Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I've heard of people being unable to get a printing company to do anything with any disney character on it, buttons, t-shirts, etc. I'm guessing you'd have trouble getting a coin maker to do it. In Florida perhaps. However anywhere else, probably not so hard to get produced. I made tshirts one year while running around seeing Dead shows many moons ago that depicted a few Disney characters. I had no touble getting them made... and those were for profit too Quote Link to comment
+Frodo13 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 (edited) There is no chance of getting their approval. Zero, not gonna happen. The spend millions protecting their work. They sue resturants that sell kids pancakes that have a larger circle and two smaller circles of batter at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock, the kind our folks made every Saturday morning. Its a cute logo for her but it's sadly not yours. The point about you not selling them has no bearing, someone who obtains it from you can very quickly ruin this idea by logging on an auction site. There are better ways of getting you name in the paper, (not in the legal notices section). Edited September 22, 2005 by Frodo13 Quote Link to comment
+legna and sOulbAit Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Here is a general rule of copyrights? Not saying it is true or false. Just found on the internet. ******** To be on the safe side, remember the old adage that if it is not yours then you have no right to it! Take heed of the following: If you did not create it from scratch then it probably belongs to someone else Copying something from the internet without written permission is theft All material published or available on the internet is Copyrighted on publication Theft of intellectual property is called Copyright Infringement Copyright Infringement is an offence throughout the world Copyright offences are punishable by law ******** Found at one of the law sights. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 In my experience in working on a project you can use an image so long as it's not for profit. At the time I was working on a poker chip and used a famous cartoon character. They grilled me in detail on what I was doing, why I wanted the chips, how I would use them, who would take them and decided that my use was fine (signature item). The final word on your tigger is going to be your coin maker. They determin what is accepable or not. My last comment is that even if you can't use Tigger for your coin you can use something so close to tigger than you can't gell them apart. How do you think parody cartoons can freely exist? Quote Link to comment
+Ladycacher Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 If you change the Tigger just a bit, then it will be fine. Make him still look like a Tigger, but change his features somehow. This is how stuffed animal machines and toys at the carnival look like disney, but a cheaper verison. It's because they change their features just a tad. As long as you don't sell the coin you should be fine. Look at Mama Mouse's coin...it's all disney and she made it. (does anyone have one of those to trade) Quote Link to comment
+Lemon Fresh Dog Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I would err on the side of caution. I think if you created ONE coin for personal use then you *might* get away with it. Create 100 and you'll have a hard time explaining why it isn't commercial use. Quote Link to comment
+Damenace Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 BA, I feel your pain. I really want to to a personal coin using Dennis the Menace. I went as far as writting a letter to Hank Ketchum Enterprises but have not received a response. Is no news good news? Are we better off asking for forgivness that to ask for permission? If only 100 coins were made what are the chances of one falling into the hands of the "wrong" person? I think this is purely an ethical situation. The final word on your tigger is going to be your coin maker. They determin what is accepable or not. Below is the quote from coinsandpins, concerning artwork. Copyrights and customer's design rights:It is the customer's responsibility to obtain all necessary copyright permissions from any copyrighted designs/materials. It is not the responsibility of Aaron Charles Promotions and it's subsidiaries to retrieve these rights. We are the manufacturer of your item, not the designer. Quote Link to comment
+lpyankeefan Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I would absolutely love to be able to do a coin for both me and my children, but unfortunately we BOTH have name that would require copyright permissions. The New York Yankees Logo and The Incredibles logo on Geo Coins would be AWESOME! but I don;t even know which hoops we would have to jump through to begin the process of permission and also wondering about the cost/added cost of obtaining these permissions versus creating an affordable (for us) Geo Coin. Just my $.02 Quote Link to comment
+Blind Avocado Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 I already emailed 2 coin companies and got two different answers. One told me the same thing as Ladycacher - change the Tigger just enough to avoid the copyright, and the other told me that it would not be a problem as long as it is not for profit. I have been considering giving a call to Disney Consumer Products. They are the ones who license Disney merchandise, but their website has a long list of criteria for licensees. Definitely not geared to small not for profit operations. Quote Link to comment
+Blind Avocado Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 It can't hurt to try but be sure you NEVER sell for a profit EVER... That means no eBay. You'll be toast if you do. I use a copyrighted image on my personal coins that are for non-profit use. But I don't think Penn State is as ruthless as Disney might be. That is exactly why I will not sell them to individuals or groups. I can just imagine them showing up on Ebay. I would be toast for sure. Quote Link to comment
+GrandpaKim Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I already emailed 2 coin companies and got two different answers. One told me the same thing as Ladycacher - change the Tigger just enough to avoid the copyright, and the other told me that it would not be a problem as long as it is not for profit. I have been considering giving a call to Disney Consumer Products. They are the ones who license Disney merchandise, but their website has a long list of criteria for licensees. Definitely not geared to small not for profit operations. That's why I'm so glad that my avatar is my own grandkids. Easy to get permission!!! Quote Link to comment
+ManGenGho Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 As a former employee, let me give you an illustration of how strict and completely backwards Disney is with copyright... I worked on the Disney Wonder (ship) and was a part of the programming team (aka, kids' entertainment/childcare/whatever). I worked with 8-9 year olds. During free time, a lot of kids liked to color on coloring sheets of characters. So, I decided to enlarge our inventory of coloring sheets. Using a Disney computer on the ship and a Disney drawing program (that kids used), I printed off several characters including the Pooh and Friends characters. I was told I could no longer do that because those images hadn't been approved by the marketing department for use on the ship. So not only can non-Disney people not use Disney materials, Disney ITSELF can't always use Disney materials if you're not in the right place. Yes, completely confusing, completely insane, and completely my point. However, on a side note...part of our programming included teaching animation. As part of the history, we got to trace back the changes in the characters over the years. Obviously, old versions are copyrighted as well. So, when deciding what to change on Tigger to make him 'okay', make sure you look at any possible "past versions" as well. A suggestion? Think of using a different view point. It might be a lot easier to pass a back view of Tigger for example. Any old orange striped tiger from the back could be made to look like Tigger, or at least be a representation of him... That would probably mean you'd have to change your design a little to make a "scene" with him in it...maybe looking for a cache? Quote Link to comment
+Blind Avocado Posted September 24, 2005 Author Share Posted September 24, 2005 As a former employee, let me give you an illustration of how strict and completely backwards Disney is with copyright... I worked on the Disney Wonder (ship) and was a part of the programming team (aka, kids' entertainment/childcare/whatever). I worked with 8-9 year olds. During free time, a lot of kids liked to color on coloring sheets of characters. So, I decided to enlarge our inventory of coloring sheets. Using a Disney computer on the ship and a Disney drawing program (that kids used), I printed off several characters including the Pooh and Friends characters. I was told I could no longer do that because those images hadn't been approved by the marketing department for use on the ship. So not only can non-Disney people not use Disney materials, Disney ITSELF can't always use Disney materials if you're not in the right place. Yes, completely confusing, completely insane, and completely my point. However, on a side note...part of our programming included teaching animation. As part of the history, we got to trace back the changes in the characters over the years. Obviously, old versions are copyrighted as well. So, when deciding what to change on Tigger to make him 'okay', make sure you look at any possible "past versions" as well. A suggestion? Think of using a different view point. It might be a lot easier to pass a back view of Tigger for example. Any old orange striped tiger from the back could be made to look like Tigger, or at least be a representation of him... That would probably mean you'd have to change your design a little to make a "scene" with him in it...maybe looking for a cache? That's a great story! You just got to love huge conglomerates. I used to do some work for Disney too, as a contractor. I know haw difficult the Disney Company is to work for. They have a very arrogant corporate culture, which is why I really don't want to deal with them. Your idea of a caching scene is a good one. I don't have the skills to draw something like that though. Does anybody know a good coin artist that is not too expensive? Quote Link to comment
+IceCreamMan Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 To be fair to Disney, there is a very good reason they are so protective of their copywrites. Copywrites are a use it or loose it thing. If they don't take steps to enforce them, they eventually loose the right to do so. Robing them of their value. Add to that the likelyhood that Disney images are the among most likely to be copied, and that they are the heart of the equity of the company, it's understandable that they would defend it so jealously. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 It can't hurt to try but be sure you NEVER sell for a profit EVER... That means no eBay. You'll be toast if you do. I use a copyrighted image on my personal coins that are for non-profit use. But I don't think Penn State is as ruthless as Disney might be. That is exactly why I will not sell them to individuals or groups. I can just imagine them showing up on Ebay. I would be toast for sure. The restriction on sales applies to you as the maker. Not people that come later in the process. If it wasn't that way you could not sell your extra movies at Garage Sales and I could not pass on my grandmothers paintings she did while learning how to paint when she copied existing art for the learning of it. Quote Link to comment
+Blind Avocado Posted September 24, 2005 Author Share Posted September 24, 2005 To be fair to Disney, there is a very good reason they are so protective of their copywrites. Copywrites are a use it or loose it thing. If they don't take steps to enforce them, they eventually loose the right to do so. Robing them of their value. Add to that the likelyhood that Disney images are the among most likely to be copied, and that they are the heart of the equity of the company, it's understandable that they would defend it so jealously. I absolutely agree. I would never fault anybody for defending what is theirs. That is one reason I am so careful about using the Tigger image. I would be willing to pay Disney for use of the image, but the sheer hugeness (and not to mention arrogance) of the Disney Company makes it difficult, or even impossible for a small guy like me to get that approval. Quote Link to comment
+Blind Avocado Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 (edited) After much redesign here is the final version. It should be going to the mint soon. Edited October 4, 2005 by Blind Avocado Quote Link to comment
Son of Cyclops Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I would like to trade and if not trade, buy one coin. Quote Link to comment
+Windrose Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Not sure if I already said so or not, but I'd love to trade for my personal coin. Windrose Quote Link to comment
+AtlantaGal Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I know I said I'd love to trade with you. And Rusty did a great job on the artwork... very nice! Quote Link to comment
+Husker Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Just so you know, trademark and copyright infringement has little to do with profit or selling. It's mostly about distribution (which in turn covers selling and trading). Non-profit ventures do not have distribution rights to these works without permission. With that said, I would like to buy 1! Quote Link to comment
+KevinG68 Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 put me down for 4. Quote Link to comment
+Team CoyChev Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Rusty recently told us "The Blind Avacado geocoin was one of the most fun coins he's designed" I think it looks great. Are you making a list? I would love to trade you one of ours for one of your. Quote Link to comment
+Bigdawg! Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Mine would ready for a while but like to buy one. Quote Link to comment
+team simpson Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Looks great, I would like to but one of those. Quote Link to comment
+graylling Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I would like to buy 1 or line up a trade of some sorts. Quote Link to comment
+Prairiepartners Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I'd like one trade or buy, great looking coin! Quote Link to comment
+f0t0m0m Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 We would love to trade and/or buy... whichever is an option.... Quote Link to comment
+Team LightningBugs Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I was wondering how that avocado was going to look on a coin. Turns out it looks great! I'd buy 2 if possible. Quote Link to comment
+ou8alizzard Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Would like to buy 2 if possible Quote Link to comment
+Go JayBee Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Please put me on your "Trade List" for 1... Quote Link to comment
+Blind Avocado Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 (edited) Just so you know, trademark and copyright infringement has little to do with profit or selling. It's mostly about distribution (which in turn covers selling and trading). Non-profit ventures do not have distribution rights to these works without permission. With that said, I would like to buy 1! After doing some research on copyright law and the "fair use" provision I have learned that profit and selling is the biggest factor in copyright infringement; mostly on how my producing them would affect the copyright holders’ ability to profit from future uses. Previous case law allows fair use if there is limited quantity and only distributed to a select group. Also, as a previous poster said, if used as a parody or for educational purposes. Of course I may be reading it wrong, after all I am not a lawyer; but it makes me feel better about using it! Edited October 4, 2005 by Blind Avocado Quote Link to comment
+pdxmarathonman Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I'd like to trade personal coins. Quote Link to comment
+Kealia Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Isn't it the Hundred Acre Woods? Looks like an "s" was left off. Quote Link to comment
+Blind Avocado Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 Isn't it the Hundred Acre Woods? Looks like an "s" was left off. In the Winnie the Pooh stories it is always called the "100 Acre Wood". Quote Link to comment
+joefrog Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I'd love to trade for one! Quote Link to comment
+Cav Scout Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I like to trade. Quote Link to comment
+wifireman Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Id be in for 2 coins. smokey Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 I did some digging on the topic a few days ago. It looks like Disney locked up the stories even though other books that the same writer did are public domain now. What I wasn't able to confirm, and this is the important part is if the original art by the original artist is now essentially public domiain. The tigger that we know is Disney, but the real tiggger isn't. Quote Link to comment
+Kealia Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Isn't it the Hundred Acre Woods? Looks like an "s" was left off. In the Winnie the Pooh stories it is always called the "100 Acre Wood". Guess I should pay more attention to the stories I read my daughter, eh? Quote Link to comment
+bikinibottomfeeders Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I would like to buy two coins please. thanx, BBF Quote Link to comment
+dhenninger Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I would trade for 1 Quote Link to comment
+t_bird Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I would like 2 to buy Quote Link to comment
+tiki-4 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Nice coin. Looking for purchase of one, as i dont have a personal coin yet. Quote Link to comment
Rupert2 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Would like to pruchase 1 please. Quote Link to comment
+Shop99er Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I would be delighted to buy 1, please. Quote Link to comment
Bjornian Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I would lvoe to buy one. I have yet to have my coins in production (beside the one i made by hand), but I hoep too soon. it's hard ot do with a limited budget and being a full time undergrad college student. Quote Link to comment
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