Protection From Wildlife?

April 9, 2005

So, does anybody here carry around 'bear away' or any other type of protection in case you come up on some disgruntled wildlife?

I ask because I am a solo cacher up in New England, and lately (spring) I have seen things like big cat sign, heard funny noises in the woods, etc etc... and have seriously been thinking about something to protect myself with 'just in case'.

Note that giving up the sport in that particular area is not an option.

BTW, anybody heard of any large animal sightings lately in the holyoke range/tekoa mtn area of western massachussetts?

Edited April 9, 2005 by Redthorne

April 9, 2005

Carry a gun.

When you come upon an anti-gun person, be sure to take a pic next to their half eaten body.

April 9, 2005

Yep. Of course, I live in Alaska so it's almost mandatory.

24.7k · April 9, 2005

I don't really do much of anthing. When I cache we make so much noise there are no predators to be found.

April 9, 2005

Cache with a friend that can run slower then you.

I carry a .45 when in the woods because my daughter and I were stalked by a cougar one time while caching, when I am alone it depends where I am at if I carry or not (woods).

Because I am lazy today I wont do the search but there has been many threads about this.

1.4k · April 9, 2005

Making noise and keeping your eyes open (so as not to corner an animal) is probably the best defense. Bear spray is always a good idea in bear country, second only to little bells on your shoes. Guns should only be carried by someone who already has training and experience with them, and are generally a poor choice if you don't.

April 9, 2005

Any questions as to what I carry for protection?

April 9, 2005

Wel Redthorn , always carry a big stick , a knife and some duct (100 mile an hour) tape (see if you can figure what you can do with those 3 items ). Also that last cache site that you just did always has wild animals , everytime I've driven through I seen something that I would not normally see .

April 9, 2005

Carry a gun.
When you come upon an anti-gun person, be sure to take a pic next to their half eaten body.

Quote of the year.

Agreed.

4.5k · April 9, 2005

Are ticks wildlife? They're a bigger threat then bears.

April 9, 2005

Carry a gun.
When you come upon an anti-gun person, be sure to take a pic next to their half eaten body.

You should show some of your pics to support your argument

April 9, 2005

If you can legally do so, I suggest carrying at LEAST a can of Fox OC. I understand in certain parts of the Republic of Taxachusetts that OC is by permit only...

If you can legally do so and are comfortable doing so, carry a firearm.

Personally, I do both, legally.

April 10, 2005

We can carry here concealed without a permit. I love this state.

2.6k · April 10, 2005

I understand in certain parts of the Republic of Taxachusetts that OC is by permit only...

Oh, my dear, it's much worse than that. I'm not a resident of MA, and I went into an MA sporting goods store to buy BB's! I was told it is not permitted without a firearms ID.

Mothers, don't let your sons grow up to be New Englanders...

April 10, 2005

From your info I think the bear spray would be a good idea. Please read the directions a slight breeze will cause a very unpleasant surprise.

A loud whistle is also surprising what it will scare away or the help it will attract. This has helped may people out of trouble and everyone in the woods should carry one.

My personal opinion I to believe that a sidearm is the best bet. But completely agree with BadAndy if you never used one they can be more trouble. Get one and some training you will feel very safe.

4.8k · April 10, 2005

There are not any real concerns here in Nebraska. At most rattle snakes are an issue and keeping eyes and ears open are enough there. They often are seen well ahead of time and warn you with a rattle. I did once have to throw pebbles at one to get it to move off of a paved walkway with brush on either side so I could pass. I felt bad though that I kicked it out of its nice warm spot in the sun. I also almost stepped on a copperhead once (in TN), but any sort of protection would not have helped me there because I didn't see it until the last second. Fortunately I didn't step on it and managed to step back before it quickly took off elsewhere. BTW, I almost stepped on it because I was not paying attention!

In bear areas of Colorado I have had few concerns. If you make noise they tend to stay away. When I have been close to one it has almost always been in the car. I did come up on one once at 2am coming back from a campground outhouse to my tent, but it was so busy digging in a trash can that I just sneaked over to my tent without it doing much more than glance at me.

I suppose if I regularly were in bear areas I might carry spray. Others might take a gun, but I choose not too. Doesn't bother me if others want to though. I stay out of that icky debate. I figure people can make their own choices and people tend to get waaaay too extreme and angst ridden over that topic.

Edited April 10, 2005 by carleenp

April 10, 2005

We can carry here concealed without a permit. I love this state.

What State is that ???

April 10, 2005

We can carry here concealed without a permit. I love this state.

What State is that ???

I think it's Alaska.

April 10, 2005

Depending on the season and time of year I will carry a gun. Sometimes a rifle, other times a shot gun. I am an avid hunter and a part time geocacher. The rest of the time I have my .357 mag. We have some big cats here in PA even if the game commission denies it. If im and doing local suburban caching I wont bring anythng. Im schooled in the art of hockey fighting and tae kwon do!

1.6k · April 10, 2005

We can carry here concealed without a permit. I love this state.

Carrying without a Permit ... Dosen't sound like an Inviting reason to visit that state to me ... <_<

Star

6.4k · April 10, 2005

We can carry here concealed without a permit. I love this state.

Carrying without a Permit ... Dosen't sound like an Inviting reason to visit that state to me ...

Star

Alaska and Vermont have no special "carry permit". If you can legally purchase and possess a firearm, you can carry it in those states. To legally possess it means you are a law-abiding adult citizen who has passed a FBI background check, have no police record, never had a protective order against you, are not a drug user or alchoholic, have no mental health problems like depression, and have no physical problems that might make it unsafe to use a firearm.

Why would you be afraid of a person like that? Sounds like someone else needs to google hoplophobia.

Edit to add: Alaska and VT have some of the lowest crime-rates in the country, much lower then many places like DC, NYC, Chicago, Canada, UK, and Japan where legal carry of firearms is virtually banned.

Edited April 10, 2005 by Mopar

1.6k · April 10, 2005

We can carry here concealed without a permit. I love this state.

Carrying without a Permit ... Dosen't sound like an Inviting reason to visit that state to me ...

Star

Alaska and Vermont have no special "carry permit". If you can legally purchase and possess a firearm, you can carry it in those states. To legally possess it means you are a law-abiding adult citizen who has passed a FBI background check, have no police record, never had a protective order against you, are not a drug user or alchoholic, have no mental health problems like depression, and have no physical problems that might make it unsafe to use a firearm.

Why would you be afraid of a person like that? Sounds like someone else needs to google hoplophobia.

Edit to add: Alaska and VT have some of the lowest crime-rates in the country, much lower then many places like DC, NYC, Chicago, Canada, UK, and Japan where guns are virtually banned.

Thanks but I don't have a FEAR of FIREARMS ....

I was raised around guns for the record.

I just haven't been convinced of the need for them ... or the need to go out and shoot up wildlife or other people for that matter ...

But thanks anyway .. At least I know you have to have a background check in ALaska now Just to own a firearm .. that bit I was not aware of ...!

Star

edit to add: I have nothing against a persons right to have or use firearms .. its just not my Thing.. and I do feel I have a RIGHT to say it as much as those that like them to carry on about how RIGHT it is to Own them .

Edited April 10, 2005 by Team Tigger International

April 10, 2005

We have some big cats here in PA even if the game commission denies it.

Ummm well...No we don't really. It is just one of the biggest legands in PA that big cats are here.

With almost 2.5 million sportsmen taking to the woods annually you would think there would be at least one credible report of a big cat. There have been none. Even researchers at Penn State University have been unable to substantiate any evidence that there are big cats in this state. Most "evidence" has been proven to be just bobcats, which there are plenty of.

I would like to think that they are here too...but they are not.

Threads like this make me wince. The odds of something happening to you from wildlife is miniscule when compared to the odds of something happening to you just by driving to the woods. But, fear is fear so if you feel you should protect yourself, then go for it.

Salvelinus

April 10, 2005

Edit to add: Alaska and VT have some of the lowest crime-rates in the country, much lower then many places like DC, NYC, Chicago, Canada, UK, and Japan where legal carry of firearms is virtually banned.

ya.....alaska has a low crime rate....and so does space....about the same population as well <_<

April 10, 2005

Carry a .
When you come upon an anti-gun person, be sure to take a pic next to their half eaten body.

:lol: <_<

thats great.

I just carry a stick but the only wildlife I have to worry about in my area are poisonous snakes.

1.6k · April 10, 2005

We have some big cats here in PA even if the game commission denies it.

Ummm well...No we don't really. It is just one of the biggest legands in PA that big cats are here.

With almost 2.5 million sportsmen taking to the woods annually you would think there would be at least one credible report of a big cat. There have been none. Even researchers at Penn State University have been unable to substantiate any evidence that there are big cats in this state. Most "evidence" has been proven to be just bobcats, which there are plenty of.

I would like to think that they are here too...but they are not.

Threads like this make me wince. The odds of something happening to you from wildlife is miniscule when compared to the odds of something happening to you just by driving to the woods. But, fear is fear so if you feel you should protect yourself, then go for it.

Salvelinus

Well said !

Just want to add that just Getting into your car and driving anywhere can bring you more Danger as well !

Star

6.4k · April 10, 2005

Carrying without a Permit ... Dosen't sound like an Inviting reason to visit that state to me ...

Star

Thanks but I don't have a FEAR of FIREARMS ....

I was raised around guns for the record.

I just haven't been convinced of the need for them ... or the need to go out and shoot up wildlife or other people for that matter ...

But thanks anyway .. At least I know you have to have a background check in ALaska now Just to own a firearm .. that bit I was not aware of ...!

Star

edit to add: I have nothing against a persons right to have or use firearms .. its just not my Thing.. and I do feel I have a RIGHT to say it as much as those that like them to carry on about how RIGHT it is to Own them .

You comment about not visiting a state that has a much lower crime rate (note to mufasa1023: Crime rate is acalculated as a percentage of the population. As far as that stat goes it doesnt matter if the population size of 2 states is different. The rate is usually calculated as the number per 100,000 people) then many other states you cache in based on the fact they don't have a seperate permit for carrying a firearm is irrational. If you are worried about being being a victim of violent crime (like being shot), you should be concerned with the violent crime stats. Rationally, if the gun crime rate is lower then in other areas you frequent, it doesn't really matter how many people carry. If you are still afraid to go to a place that has a higher percentage of firearm owners, but a lower percentage of actually crime committed, thats an irrational fear. An irrational fear is a phobia.

Me personally, I have a fear of places that have a high rate of illegally carried weapons. I fear drug dealers and muggers who have weapons. Interestingly enough, the places where those problems seem most common are the same places the good people have been banned from protecting themselves.

PS: I'm not saying a phobia is all that bad of a thing. I have a few myself. A fear of flying which I have been able to overcome in the last 10yrs, and a fear of heights which I work really really hard at yet still gets the better of me on a regular basis. I understand the fear is irrational, I understand I am usually perfectly safe. It doesn't change the terror I often deal with. Of course, the times I've successfully dealt with it (like this one) have made the experience that much more special to me.

Edited April 10, 2005 by Mopar

6.5k · April 10, 2005

So, does anybody here carry around 'bear away' or any other type of protection in case you come up on some disgruntled wildlife?

I ask because I am a solo cacher up in New England, and lately (spring) I have seen things like big cat sign, heard funny noises in the woods, etc etc... and have seriously been thinking about something to protect myself with 'just in case'.

Note that giving up the sport in that particular area is not an option.

BTW, anybody heard of any large animal sightings lately in the holyoke range/tekoa mtn area of western massachussetts?

Hmm 25 replies so far, and yet no one has really addressed the OP's concerns, and this in his first post in the forums. I don't see where he has asked "what do you think about gun control" so why are we having that discussion all over again?

I lived in that area (Holyoke, Western MA) for 2.5 years in the early 90's, and visit the Berkshire's at least once a year. I never saw or heard of any bears or big cats during my time there. If carrying some form of defensive weapon will make you feel safer in the woods, then talk to local officials about what you can legally carry, and ask the outdoors outfitters in the area what they offer for sale.

'nuff said.. <_<

1.6k · April 10, 2005

Carrying without a Permit ... Dosen't sound like an Inviting reason to visit that state to me ...

Star

Thanks but I don't have a FEAR of FIREARMS ....

I was raised around guns for the record.

I just haven't been convinced of the need for them ... or the need to go out and shoot up wildlife or other people for that matter ...

But thanks anyway .. At least I know you have to have a background check in ALaska now Just to own a firearm .. that bit I was not aware of ...!

Star

edit to add: I have nothing against a persons right to have or use firearms .. its just not my Thing.. and I do feel I have a RIGHT to say it as much as those that like them to carry on about how RIGHT it is to Own them .

You comment about not visiting a state that has a much lower crime rate (note to mufasa1023: Crime rate is acalculated as a percentage of the population. As far as that stat goes it doesnt matter if the population size of 2 states is different. The rate is usually calculated as the number per 100,000 people) then many other states you cache in based on the fact they don't have a seperate permit for carrying a firearm is irrational. If you are worried about being being a victim of violent crime (like being shot), you should be concerned with the violent crime stats. Rationally, if the gun crime rate is lower then in other areas you frequent, it doesn't really matter how many people carry. If you are still afraid to go to a place that has a higher percentage of firearm owners, but a lower percentage of actually crime committed, thats an irrational fear. An irrational fear is a phobia.

Me personally, I have a fear of places that have a high rate of illegally carried weapons. I fear drug dealers and muggers who have weapons. Interestingly enough, the places where those problems seem most common are the same places the good people have been banned from protecting themselves.

Once again ... I do not have an irrational fear ....

I am not Afraid to visit anyplace , even the bowels of Downtown Detroit (which in itself can be frightening just looking at the degradation of that city ) , and yet I never felt the need to carry a firearm into the City.

This is my personal feelings ....

My luck I would have a gun and it would most likely be wrestled from me and used to kill me....

You like firearms ... GREAT .. enjoy them ! I have nothing against that as I have said previously ....

Star

6.4k · April 10, 2005

So, does anybody here carry around 'bear away' or any other type of protection in case you come up on some disgruntled wildlife?

I ask because I am a solo cacher up in New England, and lately (spring) I have seen things like big cat sign, heard funny noises in the woods, etc etc... and have seriously been thinking about something to protect myself with 'just in case'.

Note that giving up the sport in that particular area is not an option.

BTW, anybody heard of any large animal sightings lately in the holyoke range/tekoa mtn area of western massachussetts?

Hmm 25 replies so far, and yet no one has really addressed the OP's concerns, and this in his first post in the forums. I don't see where he has asked "what do you think about gun control" so why are we having that discussion all over again?

I lived in that area (Holyoke, Western MA) for 2.5 years in the early 90's, and visit the Berkshire's at least once a year. I never saw or heard of any bears or big cats during my time there. If carrying some form of defensive weapon will make you feel safer in the woods, then talk to local officials about what you can legally carry, and ask the outdoors outfitters in the area what they offer for sale.

'nuff said..

You are quite right, WG.

As far as the OP goes:

There is little you can do to protect yourself once a large cat attacks. By the time you know it it will be too late to use a gun, stick, or pepperspray. As far as bears, the black bears in your area are usually harmless. Unless you get between a mamma and her cub, you have nothing to worry about there. Any handgun would be minimal against a bear attack anyway. Anyone who has actually stopped a bear attack with a handgun was just lucky. The best defense against animals is your brain. Make noise while you hike, and stay aware of your surroundings. This is especially important geocaching, where we often get so focused on the GPS arrow we have no idea of what else is happening.

The 2 biggest concerns I would have are wild dogs and humans. How you would deal with those threats is up to you.

4.5k · April 10, 2005

PS: I'm not saying a phobia is all that bad of a thing. I have a few myself. A fear of flying which I have been able to overcome in the last 10yrs, and a fear of heights which I work really really hard at yet still gets the better of me on a regular basis. I understand the fear is irrational, I understand I am usually perfectly safe. It doesn't change the terror I often deal with. Of course, the times I've successfully dealt with it (like this one) have made the experience that much more special to me.

This post has been edited by Mopar on Apr 10 2005, 09:28 AM

Nice climb. Good for you. It's amazing what we do for our ladyfolk <_<

7.3k · April 10, 2005

The 2 biggest concerns I would have are wild dogs and humans. How you would deal with those threats is up to you.

Mopar hit it square on - dogs and humans. At the end of the general gun hunt in Florida, where dog packs are legal for hunting, there are some fairly large hungry packs of dogs in the woods. Encountering those is the only real scare I've ever had in the forest. For a while I was carrying a whistle - amazingly, it will scatter a dog pack. I gotta admit, I lost it and havent replaced it. But this thread has reminded me to buy another. About the humans, I've just decided not to worry about it. The folks I encounter out in the forest aren't any weirder than I am (or any more dangerous either).

April 10, 2005

I only carry a gun on the urban park-and-grabs!

April 10, 2005

We have some big cats here in PA even if the game commission denies it.

Ummm well...No we don't really. It is just one of the biggest legands in PA that big cats are here.

I agree and I dont agree with your statement. I do alot of hunting in the woods in and around bloomsburg. I have been hunting up there for almost 20 years now. On state game lands 226 there is the report of a big cat. One of the locals up there, Brad higgins who lives back in that area, had his beagle eaten by the big cat. He had called the PGC(pa game commission) and they said he saw a bobcat. Well when he got to his back door after his beagle stopped barking he saw the cougar with the beagle in his mouth and took pictures of it. He then called the PGC and they came to his house and confiscated his film and told him there are no such animals in the state. I have seen big cat prints in the snow pulling out deer carcass from the deer pits(where they throw roadkill and poached deer). Im not saying that there is a bunch of them in the state. I live in southeast pa(near philly) and we have sightings and people getting them on video tape every few months or so. Around here we may not have a substantial "wild" population of big cats, but they do exist in the state. ALot of "officials" think they were once someone's pet that they could no longer take care of or want so they just let them go. This may be the case here in PA. I have seen bobcats and I have seen cougars(not in pa, when i was in CO). I know the difference in the signs they leave.

9.5k · April 10, 2005

Making noise and keeping your eyes open (so as not to corner an animal) is probably the best defense. Bear spray is always a good idea in bear country, second only to little bells on your shoes. Guns should only be carried by someone who already has training and experience with them, and are generally a poor choice if you don't.

Reminds me of a joke. <_<

1.4k · April 10, 2005

Well when he got to his back door after his beagle stopped barking he saw the cougar with the beagle in his mouth and took pictures of it. He then called the PGC and they came to his house and confiscated his film and told him there are no such animals in the state.

I didn't know that the wildlife agency had the power to confiscate film from anyone. I assume they had a warrant?

This sounds more like a tall tale that the "photographer" invented to bolster his story.

2.7k · April 10, 2005

We are probably wilder than the wild animals. I'm in Cat Country a lot more than the average cacher and have no problems or fears of wild animals. Just be observant of your surroundings, carry a whistle. And have fun.

11.3k · April 10, 2005

Well when he got to his back door after his beagle stopped barking he saw the cougar with the beagle in his mouth and took pictures of it. He then called the PGC and they came to his house and confiscated his film and told him there are no such animals in the state.

I didn't know that the wildlife agency had the power to confiscate film from anyone. I assume they had a warrant?

This sounds more like a tall tale that the "photographer" invented to bolster his story.

I agree. I tried to find such a story at Snopes, but just because they don't have it listed doesn't mean this isn't an "Urban," OK, "Rural Legend."

April 10, 2005

Here is why. These are pictures I have taken myself with my cheap digital camera, no zoom lens. Also, I mostly cache by myself and there isn't much noise to be made in some places. Some people don't need to carry and even lots of people here do not. If they are not familiar or comfortable with guns then they shouldn't like has been said before. Yes you have to keep your eyes open and how many of us get very focused while looking for a cache. I personally know a person who got chomped on by a bear and it was not a matter of not paying attention to his environment. He came over a rise and there she was. He lived and now after 8 months is also able to walk with a walker... He was extremely lucky.

I always carry my big can of Counter Assult, even when not carrying a firearm.

Yes, I'm in Alaska.

Edited April 10, 2005 by 1stimestar

1.5k · April 10, 2005

Up here in Alaska, we put "bear bells" on our packs so we can be heard from a distance and head on out into the wilderness. Most people up here have a bear story (or several) to tell, but the vast majority ended positively without the use of force. I've read enough "Alaska Bear Tales" to know that having a campsite full of firearms is less a guarantee of bear safety than keeping a clean camp and hanging food in bear bags or in bear proof containers, amongst other things. Thousands of people a year camp in Denali National Park, McNeil River, Brooks Camp and many other high density bear places without incident. My pack is heavy enough without lugging around several pounds of steel that I most likely will never have to use. If flying into the backcountry, most air services won't let you carry pepper spray out of concern of a can going off and incapacitating the pilot.

In the "for what it's worth" department, more people have been killed by dogs in Alaska in the past 30 years than by bears since 1900. More people have been killed by people in the past year than by dogs in the past 30 years . The vast majority of the people incidents happen in city, town or village, and involve alcohol and/or drugs.

So, we accept being sober and in the backcountry over being drunk or high in a populated area as the lowest risk behavior <_< .

4.8k · April 10, 2005

I have heard that bear bells work very well. The noise tells them you are coming and since bears really don't want to pal around with humans they go elsewhere.

What I found amusing with bear bells though is the time I was camping in a busy Colorado campground. The place had some issues with bears trying to hit the place for food at night, but no way was one going to stroll into that busy place during the day. A couple that was camping there would stroll around the camp during the day ringing their bear bells the whole time and looking nervous while the kids zoomed past on bikes etc. They looked quite silly!

April 11, 2005

Two weeks ago I found black bear tracks within .5 miles of my cache. The only reason I recognized them for what they were was because of dealing with them almost daily during my college summer job in northern Ontario. I hear there are between 10 and 15 of them in Ohio. My buddy has seen one on his hunting property near a state park a few years back.

But living in Ohio, I don't feel the need to carry any kind of protection from wildlife unless you count insects.

Protection from weirdos in the woods is something else, though. Oh wait, we're geocachers. WE are the weirdos in the woods.

4.5k · April 11, 2005

We are probably wilder than the wild animals. I'm in Cat Country a lot more than the average cacher and have no problems or fears of wild animals. Just be observant of your surroundings, carry a whistle. And have fun.

When do you use the whistle?

April 11, 2005

Dependant upon where I go when caching alone, 98% of the time, I carry the 9mm or the Schrade BT-01. http://www.thebeastinthegarden.com/ It's quite an interesting book, try your public library first. :anicute:

April 11, 2005

I'm glad we have a few ideas here. Here's my take on the situation:

I am qualified to carry a firearm, but for some reason that just doesn't seem right, so that is probably out.

As for big cats, they usually come at you from above, as happened to my mom a few years ago (in the same area). Luckily her dog smelled it and kept it treed until they could leave the area. I do carry a blade, which could possibly be used for this.

The bells seem like a good idea. I have talked to a few people who live up in Montgomery, MA, and around Tekoa Mtn (the area I'm talking about), who definitely have seen big cats, and a few have seen bear track, scat, and prints. (these people know what to look for). So some of the Fox OC sounds good just in case for that. There have been increased sightings in the past 5 years due to the expanding real estate building. Ick.

Anyway, thanks for the ideas!

1.6k · April 11, 2005

I have a 'badger pole'. If I see any badgers I just hit them with it.

Wulf

1.7k · April 11, 2005

I am more concerned about running into people with dogs who are off leash than wild animals. Most of the dogs I have run into on the trail are well behaved, however I had a bad run in with two dogs who were off leash. The both became very aggressive and charged me three times. While the owner stood their and watched. It wasn't until I raised my hiking stick to hit them did she get them on leash. Now I carry the canine version of mace. Otherwise blowing a whistle seems to work real good, I have an extra loud one, scares people and animals.

1.2k · April 11, 2005

Good source of the best pepper spray: www.udap.com. The company belongs to a a guy who survived a grizzly attack due to his friend's pepper spray.

1.1k · April 11, 2005

Carry a gun.
When you come upon an anti-gun person, be sure to take a pic next to their half eaten body.

This show such validity to gun advicoates. I just makes people think they are bigger cooks.

To address the OP Pepper spray is good, lots of noise is even better bear bells etc... not going solo is good. But is a gun repired NO.

Okay I know people will make a stink about this but there are 100s of people that hike the big trails each year with no incident. There are millions of people that go into the woods on hikes every year with no incident. But there are numberous caces of folks shooting others by mistake. I'll tatk my chances with the animals they are more harmless. O yess I do have several firearms.

cheers

April 11, 2005

This show such validity to gun advicoates. I just makes people think they are bigger cooks.

? :laughing: :lol: :huh: ?

Protection From Wildlife?

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