+ThePetersTrio Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I'm just curious as one of my caches is nearing the point where it will have a full log book and need to be swapped out. As a CO is it good practice to match the log book to the cache page logs and weed out any potention bogus posted found logs? Normally I'm not that concerned about bogus logs but ignoring that type of behavior only has the potential to continue the practice of arm-chair logging. Should I consider this a part of the responsibility of cache ownership or should I just let sleeping dogs lie? What do you do? Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) I don't bother to check. Edited April 30, 2009 by BlueDeuce Quote Link to comment
+Cache O'Plenty Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Well, it's supposed to be standard practice for a CO to delete bogus logs. The danger is that log signatures are sometimes hard to read and thus difficult to match to the online log. Need to be sure its not there before taking that next step. I usually don't worry about it too much. Quote Link to comment
+J-Way Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 No it is not SOP for cache owners. A few owners do this, most do not care. I personally would only do it if I had a particularly hard puzzle or terrain cache. Armchair logging on such a cache cheapens the find for the people who really work for it. Quote Link to comment
+9Key Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I don't delete them without asking the cacher that logged online but didn't sign the logbook a few questions first, like why they didn't sign the logbook. I think it's best to ask first. More diplomatic. Quote Link to comment
Trinity's Crew Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Sometimes people in groups log as a group in the book and log individually online. Some here will tell you to delete the logs if you don't see a signature in the book. I say do what feels right to you. Edited April 30, 2009 by Trinity's Crew Quote Link to comment
+tozainamboku Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I always compare the log books in my caches to the online logs and I cross out the names in the log book that didn't log online. Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 No it is not SOP for cache owners. A few owners do this, most do not care. I personally would only do it if I had a particularly hard puzzle or terrain cache. Armchair logging on such a cache cheapens the find for the people who really work for it. While I in no way endorse bogus logs, and would delete such a log if I noticed it, I don't think it cheapens legit logs. Those who solved the puzzle or made the trek know what they accomplished. Those who did not, well, they know what they accomplished. Quote Link to comment
+The Blorenges Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I don't check back to compare all the logs, but I do keep old log books for at least 6 months after we've replaced them. Very occasionally we'll get a log appear which is back-dated several months and usually I'll try and check up on it... MrsB Quote Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I've never checked a paper log against online and don't intend to start. I've deleted one online log when the subject of an armchair logger hitting our local caches came up in our local forum. If you find a signature in the paper log and there's not a matching online log are you going to add one for them? That's only fair if you are going to do the opposite! Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I always compare the log books in my caches to the online logs and I cross out the names in the log book that didn't log online. Quote Link to comment
+Cache O'Plenty Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 No it is not SOP for cache owners. A few owners do this, most do not care. I personally would only do it if I had a particularly hard puzzle or terrain cache. Armchair logging on such a cache cheapens the find for the people who really work for it. OK, semantics. The Guidelines state that "The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.". How that's accomplished and to what degree it happens is up to the CO. As stated above, most owners don't worry about it too much. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I always erase any entries from the paper log that have not been logged online. Quote Link to comment
+StarBrand Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I don't do that as standard practice but give me a reason to look and I will. I have deleted a few over the years that had no sig in the physical logbook - usually after I saw some strange logging patterns and decided I needed to look. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 When I collect a logbook from a cache, I sit down and read it, basking vicariously in the adventures of others. That's as far as my perusal goes. I've never tried matching names to logs. Quote Link to comment
+JacobBarlow Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I'm just curious as one of my caches is nearing the point where it will have a full log book and need to be swapped out. As a CO is it good practice to match the log book to the cache page logs and weed out any potention bogus posted found logs? Normally I'm not that concerned about bogus logs but ignoring that type of behavior only has the potential to continue the practice of arm-chair logging. Should I consider this a part of the responsibility of cache ownership or should I just let sleeping dogs lie? What do you do? I tried it once, deleted all the logs that were not on the paper log, got lots of hate mail, lost friends, created enemies, and created my new personal SOP that I don't care what people do because its a GAME and I value friendships and don't need to make people mad. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) I've never checked a paper log against online and don't intend to start. I've deleted one online log when the subject of an armchair logger hitting our local caches came up in our local forum. If you find a signature in the paper log and there's not a matching online log are you going to add one for them? That's only fair if you are going to do the opposite! Naw, I never check either. If someone did, they'd find well over half of my 1,700 some finds signed as TWU, rather then TheWhiteUrkel. Am I in trouble? More so in the olden days (not as much anymore, at least in my experience), what you'd find is many signatures of people who never logged on the website. And no, I don't cross them out, or erase them as a couple of smart alecks have suggested. Edited May 1, 2009 by TheWhiteUrkel Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I don't do that as standard practice but give me a reason to look and I will. I have deleted a few over the years that had no sig in the physical logbook - usually after I saw some strange logging patterns and decided I needed to look. Yes, we had a couple of notorious ghost loggers pass through the area. 20 caches in a snowstorm, with no logic to the finds? Yes. Checked that out. Oddly, I just got a find logged from a year and a half ago. Even more oddly, I had the log book in front of me. Yep! Signature is there. Strange... Quote Link to comment
CoyoteRed Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I've checked them. SOP? I'd say so. So does the listing guidelines every owner agrees to. Do most owners do it? I'd say not--especially considering many of the replies you've already received. Do what you feel is right. If you don't care if anyone signs the log, then don't reconcile. If you care that folks have actually earned the smilie they claim, check on any discrepancies. Me, I'd rather toss the whole "Found It" thing out the window. Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Oddly, I just got a find logged from a year and a half ago. Even more oddly, I had the log book in front of me. Yep! Signature is there. Strange... Sounds like fodder for another thread... Quote Link to comment
+Don_J Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) No it is not SOP for cache owners. A few owners do this, most do not care. I personally would only do it if I had a particularly hard puzzle or terrain cache. Armchair logging on such a cache cheapens the find for the people who really work for it. Thank You! I don't know of any member of my local Geocaching community that regularly checks the paper log, and deletes online logs. I have replaced paper logs and looked at them out of general curiosity. I have never felt the need to delete any online logs because of an omission on the paper log. I have placed 135 total caches with 2811 "Found It" logs. I have confidence that all but five are legitimate, and I don't really have enough proof that the cacher of those five logs, really didn't visit my caches. What I have is wordy online logs that describe the trail and spots where the caches are hidden. He gets the benefit of doubt. I have only been compelled to delete a single log which was from a sock puppet account that was quickly banned by Groundspeak, as he was quickly posting logs on caches all over the world, boasting that it wasn't necessary for him to physically sign the logbook. I have had one situation where a guy finding caches 2000 miles away, logged the third of five caches on a three mile trail. He was very receptive to my friendly email that he had the wrong GC#. (edit, spelling) Edited May 1, 2009 by Don_J Quote Link to comment
+Frank Broughton Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I don't do that as standard practice but give me a reason to look and I will. I have deleted a few over the years that had no sig in the physical logbook - usually after I saw some strange logging patterns and decided I needed to look. Yes, we had a couple of notorious ghost loggers pass through the area. 20 caches in a snowstorm, with no logic to the finds? Yes. Checked that out. Oddly, I just got a find logged from a year and a half ago. Even more oddly, I had the log book in front of me. Yep! Signature is there. Strange... Say - up here (NY & Michigan) we do it for real buddy: Winter Caching in Michigan at it's Best! Some snow I had to trek through to get this cache in negative 10 degrees Fahrenheit! Quote Link to comment
+Ramblin_Man Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I found this topic interesting. While I have not hidden any of my own caches as yet and am relatively new to this sport. A couple of times I have downloaded a cache that I am certain I have found previously but it does not appear this way on the website... it could be that I forgot to post a log or that the owner deleted my log for some reason. If a log is deleted is the "finder" automatically notified? or does it depend upon the CO to contact the finder if he or she so wishes. I for one would like to know why my find was deleted, if nothing but to understand and learn what I have done wrong and to avoid repeating it in the future. Quote Link to comment
+Don_J Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I found this topic interesting. While I have not hidden any of my own caches as yet and am relatively new to this sport. A couple of times I have downloaded a cache that I am certain I have found previously but it does not appear this way on the website... it could be that I forgot to post a log or that the owner deleted my log for some reason. If a log is deleted is the "finder" automatically notified? or does it depend upon the CO to contact the finder if he or she so wishes. I for one would like to know why my find was deleted, if nothing but to understand and learn what I have done wrong and to avoid repeating it in the future. Yes, you should receive an automatic email from Groundspeak in the form of "CacherX has deleted your log". If they simply click the "Delete" button, that is all that you would receive. I personally could not conceive of deleting another players log without offering a separate, private email explaining why I did so, (except in the case of the armchair logger that I mentioned previously.) Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I found this topic interesting. While I have not hidden any of my own caches as yet and am relatively new to this sport. A couple of times I have downloaded a cache that I am certain I have found previously but it does not appear this way on the website... it could be that I forgot to post a log or that the owner deleted my log for some reason. If a log is deleted is the "finder" automatically notified? or does it depend upon the CO to contact the finder if he or she so wishes. I for one would like to know why my find was deleted, if nothing but to understand and learn what I have done wrong and to avoid repeating it in the future. Yes, you should receive an automatic email from Groundspeak in the form of "CacherX has deleted your log". If they simply click the "Delete" button, that is all that you would receive. I personally could not conceive of deleting another players log without offering a separate, private email explaining why I did so, (except in the case of the armchair logger that I mentioned previously.) Yep! Comes into your mailbox with the subject "log deletion notice". I know this because I've had "will attend", and "TB drop" type notes deleted from large event cache pages. Never a physical cache log deleted. Yet. Quote Link to comment
+DanOCan Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 The only log I deleted was for someone who accidentally selected a "Found It" log when their online log clearly stated they didn't find the cache because of the snow. I emailed them and gave them a chance to change it and then deleted it after a week, after emailing them again inviting them to re-log as a DNF. I had someone who failed to upload a picture on one of my Earthcaches within the stated timeline and I had a number of locals encouraging me to delete his log (internal in-fighting in the community) but I didn't because nothing good could come from it. We do have one local cacher who is notorious for matching his online logs to the physical logbook and deleting entries, but that is mostly because the challenge of his caches is actually getting to the logbook once you spot the container. He has plenty of warnings about this on his cache pages (if you don't sign the actual logbook your log will be deleted) but it still has caused some hard feelings with newer cachers who weren't aware of the nuances of his caches. Like most things, I weight the cost vs. the benefit. I do compare the physical to the online when I replace a a logbook, but there would have to be something very fishy about an online log before I would delete it just because I couldn't find a corresponding entry on paper. Quote Link to comment
+Don_J Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Yep! Comes into your mailbox with the subject "log deletion notice". I know this because I've had "will attend", and "TB drop" type notes deleted from large event cache pages. Never a physical cache log deleted. Yet. Well now we get into a whole other topic, but why would someone delete a "Will Attend" from their Event cache? I can understand the excessive "TB Drop" notes, (I delete mine as soon as I post them), but the "Will Attend" logs helps me make a decision if I want to attend, especially if the event is a significant distance from my home. It also helps me set up car pools and possible pre-event caching runs. I have never held an event, but I would think that the "Will Attend" logs would be a very important tool to help me understand exactly what I have gotten myself into. Quote Link to comment
+Cache O'Plenty Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 The only case where I deleted a Found It log was when a newbie posted twice with different narrative. I sent them an e-mail initally explaining that they could edit one of the posts to include all of the information and then delete the other. They responded with a "Will Do" but never did. I deleted one of them. Quote Link to comment
+ThePetersTrio Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 Thanks for all the replies. I probably will look at the logs just out of curiosity but don't plan on deleting anything unless something looks very unusual - and if I did so, I would send a courtesy email. Personally, I have had one log deleted without explanation (even after I sent an email asking why). This was from a local cacher who has a reputation for being difficult (I believe he has been banned from the forums too) so I just let it go in the end. Some people have control issues and no amount of reasoning will fix that with this person, I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment
+mcrow Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I know I've been to a few caches where I forgot a pencil or the log was full or wet so i couldn't sign it. However, depending on how old the cache is I can probably tell you exactly how/where I found it. Quote Link to comment
+Unkle Fester Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I don't really check, except when I took my daughter caching to some of my hides and when she signed, the names didn't match. Sent emails and they corrected their mistakes. I got deleted on an earth cache (my wifes entry) for not having her picture posted, but of the 20 or 30 pictures taken, all were of me and the kids because she always holds the camera. Pointing this out, he wouldn't let us re-post, his right, bummer for us. Quote Link to comment
+Cache O'Plenty Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I got deleted on an earth cache (my wifes entry) for not having her picture posted, but of the 20 or 30 pictures taken, all were of me and the kids because she always holds the camera. Pointing this out, he wouldn't let us re-post, his right, bummer for us. That's too extreme. Of course, lesson learned, I guess. Have the kids take your pictures at all Earthcaches! Quote Link to comment
+brodiebunch Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 When we first started placing caches, we would on occasion try to match up the logs with online postings and discovered there were more logging in the logbook than online. Then we found out there are geocachers who never participate online except to get the cache coordinates. In a nutshell, we stopped trying to compare the log book to online. Its not worth it. Quote Link to comment
+PT_Tex Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I check the log just to see the names. I’ve had some sign their name and not log in on line. The other day I got an email of a find log on a cache I closed 2 years ago. I keep the log books of my closed caches so I looked back through it and it looks like a family found it back then and now one of the little one got her own cache name and was back logging her finds. I almost deleted it, so it a good idea to keep your old log books. Quote Link to comment
+GrateBear Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I'll give the log a quick glance, but not very detailed. However, there is one semi-local cacher who if he logs a find, I will check and make sure he did sign the log. I do that because he "found" 60 local caches in one day, and having my doubts, looked for his name on several that I later found (within a week). No signature at all. I also went back to a couple of easy ones I had already found that he claimed to have found, and again no signature. Quote Link to comment
+ras_oscar Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I had one cache I found but couldn't get the container opened without damaging it. Logged a find and sent the CO a private note describing what and where I found along with the explanation of why I didn't sign the log, and requesting s/he delete the log if I had not in fact "found" it. Log was not deleted. Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I keep the log books of my closed caches so I looked back through it and it looks like a family found it back then and now one of the little one got her own cache name and was back logging her finds. I almost deleted it, so it a good idea to keep your old log books. Another good idea when doing something like this is to append something like "Logged as xxxx when caching with dad/mom, now creating own account and relogging old finds". Gives the cache owner a heads-up. Quote Link to comment
+Scubasonic Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I'm just curious as one of my caches is nearing the point where it will have a full log book and need to be swapped out. As a CO is it good practice to match the log book to the cache page logs and weed out any potention bogus posted found logs? Normally I'm not that concerned about bogus logs but ignoring that type of behavior only has the potential to continue the practice of arm-chair logging. Should I consider this a part of the responsibility of cache ownership or should I just let sleeping dogs lie? What do you do? This is a game and the only one that the numbers matter to is the one posting the find. If they are going to lie, and say that they found it when they didn't they are just lieing to themselves, because at the end of the day no one else cares. I don't check the logs at the cache against the online logs. Scubasonic Quote Link to comment
+ThirstyMick Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Oddly, I just got a find logged from a year and a half ago. Even more oddly, I had the log book in front of me. Yep! Signature is there. Strange... Was it me? Sometimes I fall behind. Sometimes i fall reeeeeeeeaaaaally behind. Sometimes when I'm catching up I miss one or two, and once in awhile PolskiKrol will notice and tell me. Speaking of which he told me he spotted one I didn't log, but didn't tell me which one, I have to bug him! Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 ...What do you do? If I'm aware of an issue I'll look into it. Otherwise I just enjoy reading the logs. Someday I'll scan and post them to the cache page. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I have checked logbooks in the past when an online log seemed fishy to me, but unless there is something that leads me to believe that there is some monkey business going on I don't check. Quote Link to comment
Dj Storm Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I matched online against physical logs once, and found 2 bogus logs, 1 double log, several group logs with individual logs online, some physical logs with notes online, and a few who never logged online. Total: 70 physical logs, 70 online found it logs. Quote Link to comment
+edscott Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I recently checked one of mine and found no one that had logged on-line without first logging the cache logbook, but several that had never bothered to log on-line after finding the cache. Quote Link to comment
+Hobbit Taz Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 When I started I tried to match up the logs but had too many that I couldnt read, some that logged the cache but not the web, etc etc. I actually scanned one log sheet after replacement and posted with the cache page. But Ive had more cache logs un-recoverable due to muggling, cache disappeared, logs to wet to read, or in one case burned in a controlled burn. Now I don't bother unless I get a hint or feeling a particular cacher is logging a find and not actually doing so - especially on one particular difficult find (many return visits to find). I think as previously stated that the only person a web logger is hurting if they dont actually find it is themselves. Like cheating at solitare or crossword puzzles. There have been instances that I was not able to physically sign a log and claimed the find online (usually by CO permission) Cases like: cache was missing but I described in detail where it should have been or in one case a series of vituals that information was to be verified at a checking site that no longer worked, owner hadnt been online for an extreme period, and Never sure if recieved an email from me using the email address since no reply. My wife has often done puzzles and virtuals in far away locations (been there sometime in the past or researched the information) and CO allowed the find anyway. Even then I don't log them as finds on my account since I havent figured them out even though I could simply ask her for the answer. Quote Link to comment
+bflentje Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I don't do that as standard practice but give me a reason to look and I will. I have deleted a few over the years that had no sig in the physical logbook - usually after I saw some strange logging patterns and decided I needed to look. Ditto. Don't actively look but if I did, would not feel bad about a delete. Quote Link to comment
Styluss Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I just checked up on my first hide today and I was very surprised to see many more finder's logs in the log book than the cache has online. I guess it makes some sense... Quote Link to comment
+Celerystalker Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I never sign celerystalker - sometimes Amber (my real name), sometimes Amber and Riley (my dog). At first I didn't realize you HAD to sign the log - so my first "real" find (keycache! I was so proud of myself that I found it!) doesn't have my name in it. Of course, it's near my house and just a half mile walk, so if the owner ever complains, I'll go back to it. It's big and would be good for travel bugs - I might buy some and go back. Quote Link to comment
+piper28 Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 I make my wife sign the logs, and she's been known to put our names down and not put my geocaching id in the log, so someone doing this would end up deleting my logs probably. If they did, so be it. The only thing that would probably annoy me is that I'd guess it would now show up as an unfound cache in the pocket queries? That'd probably get annoying pretty quick. But really, the difference between 123 finds and 125 finds is not exactly high on my list of things that are going to ruin my life. I know there's a couple of caches I've found on vacations that I never got around to logging online anyways. Quote Link to comment
+Sol seaker Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 I had one log deleted because I wrote about the cache being dangerous. Other's had been complaining about that cache for a while. He wrote one line to me: "thanks for the support" I wanted to write back: "thanks for putting others safety first" but let it drop instead. Others carried the fight and the cache was disabled. I didn't appreciate that because others should know if the cache is too dangerous for kids. Quote Link to comment
+Sol seaker Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 My wife has often done puzzles and virtuals in far away locations (been there sometime in the past or researched the information) and CO allowed the find anyway. There was a thread on this recently where a couple (at least) of people in germany were logging virtual finds all over the world on the same day. In other words, his log would state germany, Italy, Florida and New Mexico all in one day. He had hundreds of finds like this. It's not how the game was meant to be played, but the game is also set up so you can play how you want, as so many people do. Someone was right as it being like cheating at solitare. They're only cheating themselves. (heck for all we know they're wheelchair and house bound and are caching the only way they can) Quote Link to comment
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