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Roman!

Puzzled by puzzles

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OK, Im not really puzzled, just wondering at what point are there to many.

 

Pick a spot near your home and run a PQ on just ? caches.

 

How many ? caches are there within 10 miles?

How many ? caches are there within 25 miles?

How far to hit the 1000 cache threshold?

 

Me:

 

10 miles =398

25 miles = 782

1000 caches = 39 miles

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IMO one is too many. To me one of the best things about geocaching is that it gets you outdoors and walking .....if I wanted to sit in front of a computer and run search engines, etc I could stay at work.

As a cacher I can ignore them and do....no problem there but there are two things I can't ignore.

1. They take up space where a REAL cache could go and,

2. You don't know where that space is...this creates extra headaches when you're placing a new cache.

I think the final co-ords should be encrypted on every puzzles cache page. If you like solving puzzles then don't use the " hint ". If you just want to find it as a regular cache then do so....your log could state which way you found it.

If you're hiding caches you know ALL locations in your area.

Making most everybody happy regarding puzzles could really happen.

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I no longer include them in queries anymore. Went down to San Mateo CA a few months go and ran an app call for 2000 caches and 700 were puzzles. That's when I stopped. As to are there to many that is for the community to decide. As long as people find them the will be me ones. No though sometimes when I have time on my hands like watching baseball I will run a call for an area I am going to and look for challenges, soduko, math and field puzzles and send the rest to ignore list. There does seem to be some differences by location. I ran a call for a thousand in Indian Wells and the were only 37.

 

Yesterday I probably sent 600 to ignore.

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One near me has been making hides with ridiculously easy puzzles as a way to block those intro app kids.

Didn't want to see good basic members suffer by making 'em pmo (and knew I wouldn't do 'em).

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"OK, Im not really puzzled, just wondering at what point are there to many."

 

I just wondering how many time someone will start a thread complaining about some part of geocaching they don't care for but that others enjoy. Please give it a rest.

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To answer your direct question

10 miles, 240 puzzles

20 miles, 758 puzzles

 

It takes a little more than 24 miles to get 1000 puzzles.

 

I like that. When we were considering to move (which may happen still), I was looking at the areas we were going to and looking at the variety of caches. For example, Grants Pass and Medford Oregon have virtually no puzzles, no letterboxes, no multis, nothing down there minus the Delorme Challenge final. I find that boring and dull.

 

We all know you hate puzzles, but I like them. If its a puzzle I personally do not like, I can ignore it.

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Pick a spot near your home and run a PQ on just ? caches.

 

How many ? caches...

 

This is where GS really need to identify what type of ? cache a ? cache is.

 

Is it a Challenge type?

Is it a Bonus cache?

Is it an easy one that can be done 'In the Field' or one of those that takes many sleepless nights trying to solve?

 

ETA

 

10 miles = 107

25 miles = 681

1000 = 36 miles

Edited by Bear and Ragged

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Pick a spot near your home and run a PQ on just ? caches.

 

How many ? caches...

 

This is where GS really need to identify what type of ? cache a ? cache is.

 

Is it a Challenge type?

Is it a Bonus cache?

Is it an easy one that can be done 'In the Field' or one of those that takes many sleepless nights trying to solve?

 

ETA

 

10 miles = 107

25 miles = 681

1000 = 36 miles

 

That would good. I will go for the challenges if I already meet the requirement and having a Field Puzzle label would be one I would use. I think the best we can hope for though is a attribute which is hit or miss. But my system of filtering during baseball games will do just fine.

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"OK, Im not really puzzled, just wondering at what point are there to many."

 

I just wondering how many time someone will start a thread complaining about some part of geocaching they don't care for but that others enjoy. Please give it a rest.

 

One he is who he is. Knowing his style you could skip a topic formed by him or even block them in you settings.

 

Also even a blind squirrel finds and acorn occasionally.

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OK, Im not really puzzled, just wondering at what point are there to many.

 

Pick a spot near your home and run a PQ on just ? caches.

 

How many ? caches are there within 10 miles?

How many ? caches are there within 25 miles?

How far to hit the 1000 cache threshold?

 

Me:

 

10 miles =398

25 miles = 782

1000 caches = 39 miles

 

I'm beginning to see why you have such an aversion to them. I live in Rural Georgia and we just don't have that many mystery caches around here.

 

I think in some of these discussions we forget that cache density and types of caches can vary drastically from one locale to another.

 

10 miles = 0

25 miles = 0

1000 caches = 171 miles

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As that geocrow flies:

 

10 miles = 26

25 miles = 118

Need to drive well over 200 miles before I get to 1000.

 

Seems most are around large towns or cities. I prefer the boonies.

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10 miles =398

25 miles = 782

1000 caches = 39 miles

 

What that *really* means is that since we live in the same area, if you pay me $20/puzzle solution, I'm going to be rich. :P

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Here in the SF Bay Area, we are truly blessed. From my home here in Pleasanton, CA:

 

10 miles = 246

>1000 caches = 23 miles

 

You gotta love it.

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"OK, Im not really puzzled, just wondering at what point are there to many."

 

I just wondering how many time someone will start a thread complaining about some part of geocaching they don't care for but that others enjoy. Please give it a rest.

 

Although I make no qualms about hating puzzle caches I am not complaining about them in this thread, just curious.

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Also even a blind squirrel finds and acorn occasionally.

Yep. His profile says he's found 464 mystery/puzzle caches.

 

Yup, I did several challenge power trails that probably make up a good chunk of them, I also frequently cache with someone who's solved 99% of the local puzzles so I get to find them when we are out together. I'd be surprised if I actually solved 10% of those 464.

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There are 10 within 10 Miles, 152 within 50 miles and 935 within 100 miles. :o

 

There are some I like and find and others I ignore. B)

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One near me has been making hides with ridiculously easy puzzles as a way to block those intro app kids.

Didn't want to see good basic members suffer by making 'em pmo (and knew I wouldn't do 'em).

It would be nice to see more "medium difficulty" puzzles in some areas. Puzzle makers frustrate some players by going for the most esoteric stuff possible. If the "puzzle community" wants more positive reaction, then I suggest that they place one third of their caches as easy ones, one third medium diificulty, & one third hard. And difficulty should be measured by how it seems to a reasonably intelligent non-puzzle-guru, not a puzzle expert.

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10 miles - 23 (16 of which are not mine)

25 miles - 32

100 miles - 1000 (not 99 miles, 100)

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Also even a blind squirrel finds and acorn occasionally.

Yep. His profile says he's found 464 mystery/puzzle caches.

 

Yup, I did several challenge power trails that probably make up a good chunk of them, I also frequently cache with someone who's solved 99% of the local puzzles so I get to find them when we are out together. I'd be surprised if I actually solved 10% of those 464.

 

 

The differentiation in the stats wouldn't need explanation if there was a feature that would separate the challenge caches from the rest, and have their difficulty gauged by something similar to D/T.

 

 

Meanwhile,

 

16km = 119

40km = 435

 

1000 mysteries at 67km radius

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Puzzles are alright. Some are extremely annoying but some are actually quite interesting.

 

Me:

10 Miles: 0

25 Miles: 13 (Including 4 Bonuses and 1 Challenge so only actually 8 puzzles)

1000 ?s: 93.3 miles from my home.

 

Not too many puzzles around here.

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Also even a blind squirrel finds and acorn occasionally.

Yep. His profile says he's found 464 mystery/puzzle caches.

 

Yup, I did several challenge power trails that probably make up a good chunk of them, I also frequently cache with someone who's solved 99% of the local puzzles so I get to find them when we are out together. I'd be surprised if I actually solved 10% of those 464.

 

 

The differentiation in the stats wouldn't need explanation if there was a feature that would separate the challenge caches from the rest, and have their difficulty gauged by something similar to D/T.

 

 

Meanwhile,

 

16km = 119

40km = 435

 

1000 mysteries at 67km radius

 

I agree it's a much needed feature but I'd still be explaining that most of th 150 or so actual puzzles I found were when I was with someone how solved it.

 

I should add that I'd say 75 of my ? finds are not within 100 miles of my house, and most not within 500 miles.

 

EDIT: of the 782 ? caches within 25 miles I have not found 614 which means I have found 168 or 21.5%

 

So here's another question what % have you found of the caches withing 25 miles?

Edited by Roman!

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I live in Canada's capital region, which has many many puzzles.

 

10 miles from my home coordinates: 656

13 miles from my home coordinates: 955

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OK, Im not really puzzled, just wondering at what point are there to many.

 

Pick a spot near your home and run a PQ on just ? caches.

 

How many ? caches are there within 10 miles?

How many ? caches are there within 25 miles?

How far to hit the 1000 cache threshold?

 

Me:

 

10 miles =398

25 miles = 782

1000 caches = 39 miles

 

How many is too many? That's a matter of opinion - you could ask the same question about film pots behind posts.

 

Can't run PQs any more because I let my premium membership lapse. I do know that not far from me there are stacks of ? caches with puzzles of varying difficulty that range from almost trivial to so obscure I ignore many pages of them.

 

Not all that far from me are a few puzzle series, where as you solve the puzzles you can see them following trails. Some of them were pretty good - interesting puzzles and interesting hides. Some of them were the sort of thing that had me scratching my head long enough to send them to the ignore list.

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10 miles=435

25 miles=1285

1000 =20.5 miles

 

found 19% of the ? within 25 miles, which surprised me TBH as I didn't think it was that high.

Edited by MartyBartfast

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I love finding unknowns, partly because of the challenge, also because I am looking to complete a challenge cache requiring that you have found atleast 2000 non-traditional physical caches. I am almost 100 shy of meeting this goal.

 

Some areas, particularly the Bay Area are full of puzzles. In that area there is a core group of cachers, who I assume work in the tech industry, that try to one up each other.

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Boy! I thought we were high on ? caches!

10 miles - 94 - 16 are mine

25 miles - 526 - 25 are mine

1000 caches - 65 miles - 59 are mine

 

But, New Jersey is a densely populated state. 25 miles can easily take an hour to drive! I'm a suburbanite! I hate the Turnpike! Had to drive on Rte 4 today! I hated it!! I'm far more likely to go Northwest than Southeast! But, these days, we're working our way more into Union County, on the Parkway. EEK!

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10 miles: 19 - 1 bonus, 1 challenge, 17 puzzles (only 1 is difficult)

 

25 miles: 30

 

100 puzzles: 94 miles

 

I haven't found the difficult one, the challenge one, and one that I've solved but is a longer hike so I haven't gotten to it yet. One of the puzzles is mine, and I'm about to archive it and replace it with a traditional. A lot of the more difficult puzzles in the area have been archived.

 

Now, if I center my query from a cache I own in Seattle, the stats dramatically change:

 

10 miles: 470

20 miles: 1000

 

There's a crazy amount of mystery/puzzles in the Seattle area.

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Including caches that I have found and that I own, I have:

about 540 mystery/puzzle caches within 10 miles;

about 1000 mystery/puzzle caches within 20 miles; and

about 1253 mystery/puzzle caches within 25 miles.

And that's a good thing.™

 

Of the mystery/puzzle caches within 25 miles, I've found 182 (or about 14.5%) of them. For comparison purposes, of the 7671 caches of all types within 25 miles, I've found 877 (or about 11.4%) of them.

 

Naturally, this doesn't count caches that are further than 25 miles, or that have been archived since I found them.

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How many ? caches are there within 10 miles?

 

286

 

 

How many ? caches are there within 25 miles?

 

587

 

How far to hit the 1000 cache threshold?

 

60km

 

Bonus caches, challenge caches and other caches with no puzzles are included.

Among these caches there are quite a number of several stages and which include a decent

workout.

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New questions, answer like this:

 

How many ? caches are there within 10 miles?

How many ? caches are there within 25 miles?

How far to hit the 1000 cache threshold?

What percentage have you found?

In your opinion are there too many ? caches?

 

Me:

 

10 miles =398

25 miles = 782

1000 caches = 39 miles

21.5 %

Yes!!!!!!!

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1. They take up space where a REAL cache could go and,

 

They are real caches. I know many multi stage puzzle caches where you end up with more outdoor time and a better workout than with a whole lot of traditionals (not only the urban ones).

 

2. You don't know where that space is...this creates extra headaches when you're placing a new cache.

 

That's true also for Wherigos, any sort of cache with multiple stages where someone does not manage one of the stages, bonus caches for caches with high terrain rating which exceeds one's capabilities etc

 

I think the final co-ords should be encrypted on every puzzles cache page. If you like solving puzzles then don't use the " hint ". If you just want to find it as a regular cache then do so....your log could state which way you found it.

If you're hiding caches you know ALL locations in your area.

 

You ignore multiple stages and you can't be serious to require listing all coordinates for the public.

 

That would be like requiring that for every high terrain caches there need to be low terrain alternatives.

 

If the first stage of a hiking cache involves climbing a tree and all further stages are ´within my reach, this ends up with the same situation with regard to coordinates than a puzzle cache that you cannot/do not want to solve.

Actually, the puzzle cache is easier to handle if you want as you could ask someone for the solution which is much easier to do as this person can be everywhere around the world while finding someone who climbs up the tree for me

on the day when I want to do the multi cache is much harder (even if I just ask for the coordinates, it would limit down the target group I could ask as they would have needed to have found the cache and kept the coordinates while for a initial puzzle solution you could ask everyone).

 

Making most everybody happy regarding puzzles could really happen.

 

No, it can't.

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Making most everybody happy regarding puzzles could really happen.

 

No, it can't.

 

Unless everyone agrees that each and every puzzle cache should be eliminated I agree with cezanne.

Edited by Roman!

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10 miles: 6

25 miles 28

500 miles: 144 (can't go bigger)

 

Guess I don't live in the best place for mysteries :(

 

Looking at the old place I lived at, until February I get:

10 miles: 1000 results, thus no clear result. Reducing the circle to 8 miles gives me 877, 9 miles goes to over 1000 already. Btw, we love mysteries and still have a huge pile of solved ones over there.

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Can't run PQs any more because I let my premium membership lapse.

 

You can easily determine the numbers asked for by Roman! without PQs. I obtained them in that way too.

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Vienna, Austria

10 miles: 905 ?, equals 29.6% of 3059 caches within 10 miles (excluding events). Traditional 51.3%, Multi 17.8%, Earthcache+Wherigo+LetterboxHybrid+Webcam+Virtual 1.2%

25 miles: 1266 ?, equals 23.1% of 5462 caches within 25 miles (excluding events). Traditional 59.3%, Multi 16.6%, Earthcache+Wherigo+LetterboxHybrid+Webcam+Virtual 0.9%

1000 ? caches: 13.8 miles

 

From my 'Found it' (excluding events) 58%/42% are within 25/10 miles, percentages for all my founds resemble more or less the above numbers: 24.7% are ?, Traditional 54.7%, Multi 16.8%, Earthcache+Wherigo+LetterboxHybrid+Webcam+Virtual 3.4%

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"OK, Im not really puzzled, just wondering at what point are there to many."

 

I just wondering how many time someone will start a thread complaining about some part of geocaching they don't care for but that others enjoy. Please give it a rest.

 

Although I make no qualms about hating puzzle caches I am not complaining about them in this thread, just curious.

 

Good thing you're not complaining. Because I, for example, cannot answer your question because I have so many of them on my ignore list. Use your ignore list, and there will be no puzzles. :P

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Can't run PQs any more because I let my premium membership lapse.

 

You can easily determine the numbers asked for by Roman! without PQs. I obtained them in that way too.

 

Care to explain how?

 

I figure you could look for a puzzle and then ask for "nearby caches of this type" and just count them but frankly I can't be bothered to do that. It also wouldn't count the reasonably large number of local PMO puzzle caches.

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10 miles =398

25 miles = 782

1000 caches = 39 miles

 

My area is not quite as puzzle dense, but not far off.

 

10 miles = 199

25 miles = 552

1000 caches = 42 miles

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Care to explain how?

I figure you could look for a puzzle and then ask for "nearby caches of this type" and just count them but frankly I can't be bothered to do that. It also wouldn't count the reasonably large number of local PMO puzzle caches.

 

If assuming http://coord.info/GC513NB Cleary Gardens is the next ? (from your first find and your event) there seem to be (incl. PMO, with "nearby caches of this type" and 20 caches per page)

 

176 ? within 10 miles (astonishing few for a city center)

1623 ? within 25 miles (there seem to be a lot of them SE)

 

1000 at 19 miles

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I figure you could look for a puzzle and then ask for "nearby caches of this type" and just count them but frankly I can't be bothered to do that. It also wouldn't count the reasonably large number of local PMO puzzle caches.

 

Of course it includes the PMO caches as these are listed as well (they are not shown on the map).

 

As counting is regarded: each page has 20 caches, so you need to count only within a page - which means you need to count at most up to 10 (if there are more than 10 to be included on on one page, count the remaining ones and subtract from 20).

 

You need not select a nearby puzzle cache.

You can use any coordinates in this command

www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?tx=40861821-1835-4e11-b666-8d41064d03fe&lat=coordnorth&lng=coordeast

Edited by cezanne

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Within 10 miles = 69

Within 25 miles = 102 (out of 825 total)

1000 = 91 miles (it looks like it contains some geoart made out of unknowns at around 90 miles)

 

IMO one is too many. To me one of the best things about geocaching is that it gets you outdoors and walking .....if I wanted to sit in front of a computer and run search engines, etc I could stay at work.

 

For me, there are times in the day for getting outdoors and geocaching and times in the day when I'm home with my family and can squeeze in some time on the computer to solve a few puzzles.

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"OK, Im not really puzzled, just wondering at what point are there to many."

 

I just wondering how many time someone will start a thread complaining about some part of geocaching they don't care for but that others enjoy. Please give it a rest.

 

Although I make no qualms about hating puzzle caches I am not complaining about them in this thread, just curious.

So under the guise of this scientific study you're hoping others will carry on the anti-puzzle rant?? :ph34r:

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I figure you could look for a puzzle and then ask for "nearby caches of this type" and just count them but frankly I can't be bothered to do that. It also wouldn't count the reasonably large number of local PMO puzzle caches.

 

Of course it includes the PMO caches as these are listed as well (they are not shown on the map).

 

As counting is regarded: each page has 20 caches, so you need to count only within a page - which means you need to count at most up to 10 (if there are more than 10 to be included on on one page, count the remaining ones and subtract from 20).

 

You need not select a nearby puzzle cache.

You can use any coordinates in this command

www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?tx=40861821-1835-4e11-b666-8d41064d03fe&lat=coordnorth&lng=coordeast

 

Ah yes, I hadn't used that feature in so long I assumed it would filter out PMO caches for basic members.

 

Looks like the previous poster worked something out for me. The coordinates are based on my first find rather than my home (my first find was near where I worked at the time) but they'll do as an indication.

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Care to explain how?

I figure you could look for a puzzle and then ask for "nearby caches of this type" and just count them but frankly I can't be bothered to do that. It also wouldn't count the reasonably large number of local PMO puzzle caches.

 

If assuming http://coord.info/GC513NB Cleary Gardens is the next ? (from your first find and your event) there seem to be (incl. PMO, with "nearby caches of this type" and 20 caches per page)

 

176 ? within 10 miles (astonishing few for a city center)

1623 ? within 25 miles (there seem to be a lot of them SE)

 

1000 at 19 miles

 

In the very centre of town most caches are traditionals.

 

As your figures show you don't need to go far out of town to see hundreds of puzzles. I think for a time there was a something of a competition among local cache hiders to see who could place the most difficult puzzles, and who could place something to cause their rival puzzlers the maximum practical difficulty in getting to the final cache.

 

With few exceptions when I see a 5/5 rated puzzle I just pass it by.

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Pssst! R! This study looks only at the raw numbers. Since cache density varies so much from place to place, percentages are extremely useful information. There's an idea for a new thread next week! Happy to assist. B)

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10 miles = 89 ? Caches (found or own 85.76%)

25 miles = 546 ? Caches (found or own 51.83%)

1000 ? Caches = 45 miles

 

In my opinion, there are never enough ? caches. For some, going to the posted coordinates and finding a cache is everything you need. For me, that got old quickly. While I do enjoy the traditional find here and there, I like to have something added to that experience. Everybody is into different aspects of the hobby, though.

 

Looking at my stats, that something extra generally comes with puzzles as they encompass a little bit more than 22% of 4500+ finds whereas traditional caches make up 56ish% of my finds.

 

I'm sure I'd have more of those 546 within 25 miles if I spent more time finding caches than solving puzzles :-D I will say though that at least 100 of those puzzles within 25 miles are a geo art powertrail which I will likely never bother with.

Edited by Traditional Bill

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I have 844 within 10 miles.

 

It only takes me 17.7 km to hit 1000 mystery/unknown caches (that includes the ones that I have found), so there are more than 1000 within 25 miles.

 

Everyone has different tastes, and not all caches are for all people.

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Are there too many ?

 

No, I think there should be place for every type of cache. There are enough caches to choose from, no one needs to find every cache that might be there and complain all the the time. Don't want to solve riddles? Then stick to traditionals, there are plenty of them. Multis, wherigos or Earthcaches might be too time consuming too. Others have to leave out T5 or whatever. Besides, a lot of caches (of all types) are really unneeded depending on point of view, maybe some more than others.

 

Apart from ? where you solve the (hopefully) interesting/funny/educational task, get coordinates and go there as you do for a traditional like: iGIT ein BLOB Gelbe Tupferln / Yellow dots (PMO) The Third Cat (PMO) Mr. Yon Yup's Nighty Conflicts Matricula

 

I would miss above all ? with adventurous/demanding (multistage) outdoor parts like: Scriptum CSI Märchenland Bonus - Nachts im Prater "Stage 5" Hrominigma

 

and I would miss interesting ? combined with multistage outdoor part unless they (except the first) are allowed as multi with field puzzle. But then others will complain about the too demanding riddle part to be solved. Like Die Wiener Straßenbahn Invaders #1 - Sneak Attack Auf den Spuren von Harry Lime VIVA la MUSICA! Brunnen / Fountains Sudoku in the sky Der Kegler vom Stephansturm - Deutsch/English VIVA la COMMEDIA!

 

I won't miss ? bonus caches where you gather numbers from logbooks of the corresponding tradi series.

I won't miss certain large Geoart ?-series with tiresome questions to solve where complete solutions circle around, also from the owner (why not make it traditionals?) and only a few cachers are stupid enough to solve everything by themselves.

I won't miss a lot of challenge caches where I'm not interested in the theme. On the other hand, if challenge caches are to stay, I would be happy to see also 'forgotten cache challenges' that are allowed elsewhere and also 34 miles east from me, but not in my country and other ideas.

I won't miss the 'read my mind' or 'be part of owners clique to get the solution'-type ?

I won't miss certain stupid, lame, with sole purpose of increasing the number of caches, [insert long list of not so friendly adjectives] caches no matter which cache-type

 

But I don't ask for removing/archiving all cache-types/caches I don't like only because I don't like them.

 

If the main motive for caching is outdoor exercise and trying to keep space requirements low: long-range hiking caches only 'steal' one place for the cache, even if they are more than 100 miles long and keep you busy for 2-6 days. Power trails of this length occupy 1000 spaces that could be used for other caches.

Edited by AnnaMoritz

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Pssst! R! This study looks only at the raw numbers. Since cache density varies so much from place to place, percentages are extremely useful information. There's an idea for a new thread next week! Happy to assist. B)

 

I'd agree with that. This whole thing is silly though. I live about 50 miles from the guy whom I'm of the opinion is the most prolific challenge cache placer in the world. Those certainly aren't "puzzles".

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