How is it legal to claim... say 900 caches in one day?

[+The_Wagners]

I know... heck of a first post, but I'm sitting here with my wife going over some stats and the #1 finder on this site lists 990 finds in a single day... how is that legal? Obviously you cannot visit 900 caches in a single day. The only way I could see you getting your name on that many logs is by proxy through other people. But then what's the point? That's not really finding what you're claiming.

 

Am I missing something here?

[+GeoBain]

I know... heck of a first post, but I'm sitting here with my wife going over some stats and the #1 finder on this site lists 990 finds in a single day... how is that legal? Obviously you cannot visit 900 caches in a single day. The only way I could see you getting your name on that many logs is by proxy through other people. But then what's the point? That's not really finding what you're claiming.

 

Am I missing something here?

2 words: Power Trail

 

1000+ in a single day is possible now.

[+addisonbr]

Am I missing something here?

Yes, you are missing the E.T. Power Trail, among others. Caches that are placed 0.1 miles apart for many many miles, usually done with teams of cachers - one who drives, and others who hop out to retrieve containers, sign or apply stickers to the log, and replace them (either straight-up or via the leapfrog method).

 

It is a relatively recent phenomenon.

[+baloo&bd]

I know... heck of a first post, but I'm sitting here with my wife going over some stats and the #1 finder on this site lists 990 finds in a single day... how is that legal? Obviously you cannot visit 900 caches in a single day. The only way I could see you getting your name on that many logs is by proxy through other people. But then what's the point? That's not really finding what you're claiming.

 

You're correct, with the exception of a few power trails, it is not possible to get that many in a day. Even with the PT's, it is not possible in the traditional sense.

 

Having said that, "legal" is really not applicable here. They want to claim them, it us between them and the CO's of the 990 caches. Silly to claim? Probably. Legal? Yes.

[+BStheTech]

Maybe he had found them before joining and logged them all at once?

 

B.

[+secretagentbill]

Yes, you are missing the E.T. Power Trail, among others. Caches that are placed 0.1 miles apart for many many miles, usually done with teams of cachers - one who drives, and others who hop out to retrieve containers, sign or apply stickers to the log, and replace them (either straight-up or via the leapfrog method).

Even with the PT's, it is not possible in the traditional sense.

The only way I could see you getting your name on that many logs is by proxy through other people.

That. IMO it's silly and pointless. But people claim all sorts of things in all areas of life and it's just not worth worrying about it. My find count means that I've found that many caches (and events). Someone else's find count means they drove a car down a road while someone else threw replacement film cans out the window. C'est la vie.

[+The_Wagners]

Blech... after reading the nonsense associated with power trails, I'm surprised it's acceptable. No thanks, we'll pass. Quality over quantity. The Wagners aren't "cheeseball cachers!" lol

[+tozainamboku]

Blech... after reading the nonsense associated with power trails, I'm surprised it's acceptable. No thanks, we'll pass. Quality over quantity. The Wagners aren't "cheeseball cachers!" lol

I'm not sure what the point of calling someone a cheeseball is. Obviously some cachers enjoy doing these powertrail. Perhaps they see it a challenge to find 900 caches in 24 hours. It's certainly not easy to do even with powertrails. But it is possible. Other geocachers might enjoy finding a single cache that requires an overnight backpacking trip and extreme mountaineering abilities. I think everyone is trying for find ways of enjoying geocaching that fit their personalities. Some are finding challenges that test their particular abilities and preferences.

[+GeoBain]

Blech... after reading the nonsense associated with power trails, I'm surprised it's acceptable. No thanks, we'll pass. Quality over quantity. The Wagners aren't "cheeseball cachers!" lol

I'm not sure what the point of calling someone a cheeseball is. Obviously some cachers enjoy doing these powertrail. Perhaps they see it a challenge to find 900 caches in 24 hours. It's certainly not easy to do even with powertrails. But it is possible. Other geocachers might enjoy finding a single cache that requires an overnight backpacking trip and extreme mountaineering abilities. I think everyone is trying for find ways of enjoying geocaching that fit their personalities. Some are finding challenges that test their particular abilities and preferences.

Cheeseball

[+The Leprechauns]

Blech... after reading the nonsense associated with power trails, I'm surprised it's acceptable. No thanks, we'll pass. Quality over quantity. The Wagners aren't "cheeseball cachers!" lol

Yawn. I heard the same thing back in 2004 when I claimed 240 finds in 24 hours. "It's impossible," "they cheated," etc. And that was in the days before trails of caches every .1 miles in a straight line.

 

It is not something I care to do every day, but a numbers run can be lots of fun with the right group of friends.

 

If you cannot see that, and instead take pleasure in name calling and finger wagging, I truly feel sorry for you.

[+The_Wagners]

Blech... after reading the nonsense associated with power trails, I'm surprised it's acceptable. No thanks, we'll pass. Quality over quantity. The Wagners aren't "cheeseball cachers!" lol

I'm not sure what the point of calling someone a cheeseball is. Obviously some cachers enjoy doing these powertrail. Perhaps they see it a challenge to find 900 caches in 24 hours. It's certainly not easy to do even with powertrails. But it is possible. Other geocachers might enjoy finding a single cache that requires an overnight backpacking trip and extreme mountaineering abilities. I think everyone is trying for find ways of enjoying geocaching that fit their personalities. Some are finding challenges that test their particular abilities and preferences.

 

900 in 24 hours? That's 1 cache every 96 seconds for 24 consecutive hours, traveling a total distance of 90 miles. Considering that doesn't take into account actually finding the cache or signing it... or the biggest factor, sleeping. If you cut just 4 hours out for sleep, that brings you down to 80 seconds per cache. When you consider each find in and of itself is little more than a stamp, sticker, or a drop on the ground, it degrades the actual find to next to nothing. So, what exactly was memorable about find number 623 out of a 900 cache run? I fail to see any positive contribution to the game of geocaching itself. Negative publicity in the public eye by cachers creating hazards and damage along a strip of highway? When the focus is no longer about the find, but the meaningless number on a website, yes we see it as cheesy. Congrats to all those who love them. Who knows... maybe these people would be just as happy running around in circles at the mall in the morning stamping pieces of paper strategically placed every 528 feet away.

[+Mr. Wilson & a Mt. Goat]

If you don't like them, stay away from them. Some love this kind of caching.

 

Here's a video, 3 caches in about 140 seconds.

[+Mr. Wilson & a Mt. Goat]

And about the "sleeping" while doing the cache run, no such thing... (I think)

[+TreasureKid's]

It would not be an every day thing but I agree about the right group of friends and a great looooong day. We recently did a run like that but only a few hours during a mega event weekend. For the day it was fun and when you have a toddler in a car seat it works. Because if your only stop for a very short time each time they get less cranky that they stay in the truck.

[+niraD]

There's more info about numbers runs here:

http://www.cacheopedia.com/wiki/Numbers_run

 

I should probably updated it sometime to reflect the kinds of numbers that are possible on numbers run trails like the Route 66 trail or the ET Highway trail.

[+luvvinbird]

Who claims the find on a PT? The guy driving? The guy with the GPS? The guy(s) jumping out of the car and actually locating, signing and dating the logs? All of the above? Just curious. Because maybe there's someone at home by a phone somewhere that also claims the find. Just curious.

[+tozainamboku]

Who claims the find on a PT? The guy driving? The guy with the GPS? The guy(s) jumping out of the car and actually locating, signing and dating the logs? All of the above? Just curious. Because maybe there's someone at home by a phone somewhere that also claims the find. Just curious.

You can make up whatever rules you want for the way you geocache and then call people cheaters because they don't follow your rules.

 

There's no doubt that some people who do these cache runs may log finds that not everyone would agree are "legal". They may very well do this as team and not have have everyone get out of the car at every cache, yet everyone on the team logs a find. Lord knows the objection some people had to a practice called "swap and drop", where they actually shifted the containers from one spot to the next. Frankly if you don't think these finds should count because in your mind they "cheated", that's fine. Remember that these people had fun, they recorded finds they felt they deserved, and most importantly, the cache owners did not delete the finds. As far as Geocaching.com is concerned these are legitimate found it logs. This is not a competition, so instead of formal rules as to what is legal in order to claim a find, it's generally left to what the finders and the cache owners agree on. (There are exceptions which Groundspeak has decided go too far, but these are rare and what has been done with power trails has been allowed so far).

[+BaylorGrad]

The OP is going to fit in very well here.

 

I, too, initially discussed the statistical impossibility of finding so many caches in a day... But the impossible is indeed possible. It's been done too many times to say that every claim was a false one. Several of these forum members have been on these power-caching runs, and while this type of caching isn't for me--or for the OP--to each his own!

[+sword fern]

ventura kids holds the record for most caches found in 24 hours. Something like 1,100 caches.

[+sword fern]

For me... I guess before you judge you try. So I'm gonna try a PT and see how it feels like. We don't have a power trail here but I guess the whole city is a PT. So saturated.

[I!]

Blech... after reading the nonsense associated with power trails, I'm surprised it's acceptable. No thanks, we'll pass. Quality over quantity. The Wagners aren't "cheeseball cachers!" lol

 

I'll hear nothing bad said about cheeseballs!

 

[+EdrickV]

Aside from the whole pride/bragging rights kinda thing, I can see one potential reason people might do number runs: To qualify for certain types of mystery caches. (aka the "100 finds in a day" type cache.) I know of one such cache in my general area that I've never looked for because I haven't met that requirement. (I think there are some of those types of caches with really hard challenges that were mentioned a while ago in a previous thread.)

[+Cache Raiders]

How about finding 128 caches in one day, all from different parts of the world? Check out the last cacher to find this cache: GCK25B. He "found" caches in Antarctica, California, Washington, Florida, etc... all in one day.???

[+geocat_]

How about finding 128 caches in one day, all from different parts of the world? Check out the last cacher to find this cache: GCK25B. He "found" caches in Antarctica, California, Washington, Florida, etc... all in one day.???

 

I am not too big on the 900+ caches in a day thing either, but to each his/her own However, armchair loggers are just a complete waste!

[+Keith Watson]

Earlier this year a bunch of us set out to find 150 caches in a day. This was a combination of power trail and non power trail caches. By around 8:00 we hit 200 and four of us made to 217 finds in 24 hours. This is not normal activity for any of us and was a fun adventure. I have heard that questions have been asked about the validity of our finds but that could be just people wondering how we did it. I used to also organize an annual 24 hour run where a bunch of us would go out and cache for 24 hours. Again, not our usual but it was fun.

[+Borst68]

I like cheeseballs!

 

Certainly PTs are not for everyone. I have never done one. There is a micro power trail near me on a bike trail that I may try some day. Even at 30 caches, it would almost double my most prolific day. PTs don't really appeal to me but I probably should try one before I totally write the genre off. Maybe a bicycle PT would be more fun for me.

 

IMO, much of it depends on your view of "numbers". If numbers are very important to you, PTs become much more palatable. If you enjoy long hikes, scenic journeys, puzzles or multis, numbers are probably less important to you. Thus, a PT is probably not how you wish to spend your time.

 

The best thing about geocaching is that there a multitude of ways to play the game. The worst thing about geocaching is that there a multitude of ways to play the game.

[+GrateBear]

If you don't like them, stay away from them. Some love this kind of caching.

 

Here's a video, 3 caches in about 140 seconds.

Got a good chuckle out of this:

The Driver--had it easy.

The Stamp--"Hold it still so I can hit it."

The Hat--Did all the work! I can't imagine he kept that pace up.

 

Thanks for posting--got my morning off to a good start.

[+FunnyNose]

For me... I guess before you judge you try. So I'm gonna try a PT and see how it feels like. We don't have a power trail here but I guess the whole city is a PT. So saturated.

 

I did a real enjoyable Power Trail the other day.

 

15 miles worth of pedaling on a bike trail and 20 caches.

[Andronicus]

Blech... after reading the nonsense associated with power trails, I'm surprised it's acceptable. No thanks, we'll pass. Quality over quantity. The Wagners aren't "cheeseball cachers!" lol

I'm not sure what the point of calling someone a cheeseball is. Obviously some cachers enjoy doing these powertrail. Perhaps they see it a challenge to find 900 caches in 24 hours. It's certainly not easy to do even with powertrails. But it is possible. Other geocachers might enjoy finding a single cache that requires an overnight backpacking trip and extreme mountaineering abilities. I think everyone is trying for find ways of enjoying geocaching that fit their personalities. Some are finding challenges that test their particular abilities and preferences.

 

900 in 24 hours? That's 1 cache every 96 seconds for 24 consecutive hours, traveling a total distance of 90 miles. Considering that doesn't take into account actually finding the cache or signing it... or the biggest factor, sleeping. If you cut just 4 hours out for sleep, that brings you down to 80 seconds per cache. When you consider each find in and of itself is little more than a stamp, sticker, or a drop on the ground, it degrades the actual find to next to nothing. So, what exactly was memorable about find number 623 out of a 900 cache run? I fail to see any positive contribution to the game of geocaching itself. Negative publicity in the public eye by cachers creating hazards and damage along a strip of highway? When the focus is no longer about the find, but the meaningless number on a website, yes we see it as cheesy. Congrats to all those who love them. Who knows... maybe these people would be just as happy running around in circles at the mall in the morning stamping pieces of paper strategically placed every 528 feet away.

You know how many people have come on here and said that? But there are cachers who prove this wrong. An example is Ventura_Kids. No "creative" rule bending, just determination, and tons of caches.

[+dfx]

You know how many people have come on here and said that? But there are cachers who prove this wrong. An example is Ventura_Kids. No "creative" rule bending, just determination, and tons of caches.

 

Is what he says, anyway

Obviously nobody bends or breaks their own rules. Problem is that everybody has a different set of rules.

[Clan Riffster]

How about finding 128 caches in one day, all from different parts of the world? Check out the last cacher to find this cache: GCK25B. He "found" caches in Antarctica, California, Washington, Florida, etc... all in one day.???

To paraphrase Toz:

"He had fun "finding" those caches. Now it's between the hider and the logger.

To each his own... Kum-By-Yah... It's not hurting anything... Don't be judgemental...

Etc, etc, etc. Ad infinitum, Ad Nauseam."

[+sword fern]

For me... I guess before you judge you try. So I'm gonna try a PT and see how it feels like. We don't have a power trail here but I guess the whole city is a PT. So saturated.

 

I did a real enjoyable Power Trail the other day.

 

15 miles worth of pedaling on a bike trail and 20 caches.

 

You mean the Burke-gilman? Or the Sammamish river? Those hardly qualify. There are a lot but not enough in proximity caches to qualify for a PT. A real PT would be the PCPT series in San Diego, the Route 66 PT near the LA suburbs, and some others.

 

Most of the caches in the BGT and SRT are quality caches put out by different cachers. PTs are something like film cans under a rock within 528 ft of each other.

[+tozainamboku]

How about finding 128 caches in one day, all from different parts of the world? Check out the last cacher to find this cache: GCK25B. He "found" caches in Antarctica, California, Washington, Florida, etc... all in one day.???

To paraphrase Toz:

"He had fun "finding" those caches. Now it's between the hider and the logger.

To each his own... Kum-By-Yah... It's not hurting anything... Don't be judgemental...

Etc, etc, etc. Ad infinitum, Ad Nauseam."

I personally don't feel harmed by armchair loggers. In fact, I find it mildly amusing that someone had more "fun" sitting at their computer logging bogus finds than they would if they actually went out and found a few caches. However, you failed to include the parenthetical remark when quoting me

(There are exceptions which Groundspeak has decided go too far, but these are rare and what has been done with power trails has been allowed so far).

 

Perhaps armchair logging isn't as rare as I think it is. My guess though is that it is rare, but is also quite obvious so we hear about these cases when the occur. In anycase, Groundspeak has made it clear that this is one of the cases where a cache owner can't simply decide the found log is legitimate. Cache owners are told to delete bogus logs, and Groundspeak has occasionally enforced this guideline by archiving caches. Also, without even checking, I'm confident that the account that made these logs has already been banned.

Edited August 15, 2011 by tozainamboku

[+NYPaddleCacher]

How about finding 128 caches in one day, all from different parts of the world? Check out the last cacher to find this cache: GCK25B. He "found" caches in Antarctica, California, Washington, Florida, etc... all in one day.???

To paraphrase Toz:

"He had fun "finding" those caches. Now it's between the hider and the logger.

To each his own... Kum-By-Yah... It's not hurting anything... Don't be judgemental...

Etc, etc, etc. Ad infinitum, Ad Nauseam."

 

I was thinking of nominating him for Geocacher of the Month and write up how awesome he must be to find so many caches in different parts of the world on the same day.

[+Sol seaker]

For me... I guess before you judge you try. So I'm gonna try a PT and see how it feels like. We don't have a power trail here but I guess the whole city is a PT. So saturated.

 

 

so glad you're not judgmental... with your finding enjoyment out of hiding nano's in rock walls. UGH!!

 

I haven't done a power trail, but I did a cache machine once.

It's a lot of people finding a whole lot of caches in a larger area in 8 hours.

It's pretty nuts. A lot of people are judgmental about those. Heck, maybe I am too, but it was a lot of fun. I'd probably even do it again sometime.

[+niraD]

You mean the Burke-gilman? Or the Sammamish river? Those hardly qualify. There are a lot but not enough in proximity caches to qualify for a PT. A real PT would be the PCPT series in San Diego, the Route 66 PT near the LA suburbs, and some others.

 

Most of the caches in the BGT and SRT are quality caches put out by different cachers. PTs are something like film cans under a rock within 528 ft of each other.

That depends who you talk to. There's a power trail around here that has been in place for 7 years. One team originally hid them all, and they were published over the course of a couple weeks. (Since then, a few newer caches have been placed along the power trail, filling holes opened by archived caches.) The caches aren't much more than 528' from each other. But they're all different, and none of them are like the film-can hides of modern numbers run trails. One is even on my list of Favorites, because of its excellent camouflage.

 

There is a huge difference between "old school" power trails like this, and "new school" numbers run trails like the ET Highway or Route 66 trails. A lot of people seem to distinguish between the two, but do so using different terms. I use the terms "power trail" and "numbers run trail", but I'd be happy to use any other terminology to distinguish between the two, if the community can come to some sort of consensus.

[+geodarts]

You know how many people have come on here and said that? But there are cachers who prove this wrong. An example is Ventura_Kids. No "creative" rule bending, just determination, and tons of caches.

 

Is what he says, anyway

Obviously nobody bends or breaks their own rules. Problem is that everybody has a different set of rules.

 

Which is why Jeremy's statement from another thread works so well for many issues:

 

"Bickering over the rules of a cache "find" was never the intent of Geocaching.com. There's no prize, no leaderboard, and no trophy, so there's no reason to get your knickers in a twist about anyone else's definition of a find."

Edited August 15, 2011 by geodarts

[+wimseyguy]

Blech... after reading the nonsense associated with power trails, I'm surprised it's acceptable. No thanks, we'll pass. Quality over quantity. The Wagners aren't "cheeseball cachers!" lol

We found 830 something caches on the Route 66 trail in about 15 hours in a car of four crazed mad cachers. No cheeseballs were consumed during the entire trip. We did eat some string cheese, but there weren't any

.

 

And this past weekend I went out solo and spent over two hours on one multi!

So I guess I am an omnivorous cacher.

 

The Wagners have only been caching for a short time, you still have not figured out what kind of cachers you are. But as long as you are having FUN you are the right kind of cacher in my book.

Edited August 15, 2011 by wimseyguy

[+Shebaz Jenkins]

I think a power trail would be a great time. The game isn't about competing with others, it is about having fun and enjoying the experience. I personally would love to do a power trail, I would set a goal with some friends and make it like a race for us.

 

Each person can set their own goals and feel rewarded for hitting them. Is it to get this one hard cache today? Is it to get 100 caches in a day? Doesn't matter, just go out and have a good time.

 

It reminds me a lot of golf. I am a golf instructor for beginner's in my home town so I am playing with a lot of new players all the time. This is where the whole penalty stroke debate comes in, or playing as it lies. If a vet player is trying to hit 80 and hits in the water and doesn't take a penalty, who cares? As long as it is not a competition, they only affect themselves. On the flip side, that beginner who hits it into really deep grass is told by most to move it out and hit from shorter stuff, because it's not fun for a beginner to take a 15 on a hole.

 

The game is what you make of it. You and only you feel the rewards or the penalties so I don;t worry about what others do.

[+jpamusher]

Blech... after reading the nonsense associated with power trails, I'm surprised it's acceptable. No thanks, we'll pass. Quality over quantity. The Wagners aren't "cheeseball cachers!" lol

I'm not sure what the point of calling someone a cheeseball is. Obviously some cachers enjoy doing these powertrail. Perhaps they see it a challenge to find 900 caches in 24 hours. It's certainly not easy to do even with powertrails. But it is possible. Other geocachers might enjoy finding a single cache that requires an overnight backpacking trip and extreme mountaineering abilities. I think everyone is trying for find ways of enjoying geocaching that fit their personalities. Some are finding challenges that test their particular abilities and preferences.

 

I have to agree. Geocaching is a personal hobby in some ways. I like to find caches as part of a longer hike and seldom drive somewhere just to find a cache. If people enjoy other types of caching,good for them!

[jholly]

If you don't like them, stay away from them. Some love this kind of caching.

 

Here's a video, 3 caches in about 140 seconds.

Got a good chuckle out of this:

The Driver--had it easy.

The Stamp--"Hold it still so I can hit it."

The Hat--Did all the work! I can't imagine he kept that pace up.

 

Thanks for posting--got my morning off to a good start.

Actually the driver really needs some skill and timing. Hitting the right place to stop so it is directly in line with the cache is not quite as easy as you might expect. If your off you cause the jumpers extra work and distance.

 

You can get pretty good doing both the opening and stamping with one person.

 

Not to start a major religious war, but the cache forward method is the fastest, but the stamper in the front seat is busier than a one armed paper hanger in in a wind storm.

[+Fjordi]

If you don't like them, stay away from them. Some love this kind of caching.

 

Here's a video, 3 caches in about 140 seconds.

Got a good chuckle out of this:

The Driver--had it easy.

The Stamp--"Hold it still so I can hit it."

The Hat--Did all the work! I can't imagine he kept that pace up.

 

Thanks for posting--got my morning off to a good start.

 

*lol* That made my day

THANK YOU for sharing it!

I would love to try it - but I might get bored after 50 caches or so.

 

But who knows... maybe I will find myself in the very same situation, when we travel to the USA in August 2012 (seems to me, that we might have the chance to hit the Route 66 powertrail... )

[+wimseyguy]

The thing with ET and Rt 66 is that if you get bored after 50 or so, you are waaaay out in the middle of nowhere with a lot of caches between you and anywhere else you might want to go to.

[+Maingray]

As one of the "hat"s in that video, I just wanted to say, yup its very possible to find that number of caches a day and we HAD A HECKUVA BLAST OF FUN DOING IT.

 

I only hope the OP finds as good as friends to have that much fun in a car with

 

Thanks you, and goodnight.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Maingray

[+supertbone]

Legal? I seriously doubt a governmental entity has limits on how much someone can find in a day.

[+captnemo]

The thing with ET and Rt 66 is that if you get bored after 50 or so, you are waaaay out in the middle of nowhere with a lot of caches between you and anywhere else you might want to go to.

I agree after 20 or so The First Mate and I were bored to death with the Rte 66 series, hung in there until the next freeway on ramp and left.

 

Just so you know it wasn't the location, we live only a couple of miles from Rte. 66 and love the desert.

[Dinoprophet]

The thing with ET and Rt 66 is that if you get bored after 50 or so, you are waaaay out in the middle of nowhere with a lot of caches between you and anywhere else you might want to go to.

I agree after 20 or so The First Mate and I were bored to death with the Rte 66 series, hung in there until the next freeway on ramp and left.

 

Just so you know it wasn't the location, we live only a couple of miles from Rte. 66 and love the desert.

That's the impression the video gave me. More power to those who enjoy it, but myself, I'd rather take a hike with my friends.

[+Lieblweb]

Not a dadgum thing wrong with power trails!!

 

If it weren't for power trails (here locally) - my husband and I would've never got our bikes out of the shed after 15 years!!

 

So - I'd say - they're pretty dadgum important to getting us off our asses and into physical activity!

[Dinoprophet]

Not a dadgum thing wrong with power trails!!

 

If it weren't for power trails (here locally) - my husband and I would've never got our bikes out of the shed after 15 years!!

 

So - I'd say - they're pretty dadgum important to getting us off our asses and into physical activity!

I like powertrails by bike. But even then, I like some distance between. You can just about push off with your foot and coast 528 feet.

[+lamoracke]

Legal? I seriously doubt a governmental entity has limits on how much someone can find in a day.

 

I agree, its not legal or illegal, but logical or possible? Either way, not possible for me personally, I refuse to do power trails of say more than 20 caches, and even then, those need to be different hides or something different about them.