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Canadian Benchmarks

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I'm just wondering if there is enough interest in Canada to justify starting a page that has searching and logging of Canadian benchmarks. It is definitely fun, but so far the Survey has not responded with interest in involvement indicating that it is not something that would assist them at all. If there was enough interest from Geocachers however, I would follow up some more and pursue construction of a site.

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Of course I'm interested...

 

I know there's been issues with the Gov't of Canada on this one since we're not as free with our geodetic data as our southern neighbours are. While we may not be able to look up all existing benchmarks in a Groundspeak database there's no reason why we can't enter data about benchmarks we find. Sure we can't lookup all the local ones like the Americans do but we can report the locations of the ones we know and populate the database that way.

 

I believe Canadian citizens can get access to the Gov't of Canada database of these points (If I find the site again I'll post it here) so we can start looking there.

 

Ian

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Hi everyone, I would be interested in finding benchmarks in Canada too. Is there somewhere I can look for more information on benchmarks? I have a rough idea what they are but am confused about why our American neighbours can access this info but we can't.

 

Dar...

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I think it would be great to have something else to search for; defiantly interested. KKAM

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yes, yes, oh GOD, yes!

 

when i hunt caches i like to find a benchmark wherever i am, if only one. when i'm in canada, i feel half undressed without benchmark destinations.

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I'm just wondering if there is enough interest in Canada to justify starting a page that has searching and logging of Canadian benchmarks.

I think this would be a great idea. There have been several threads about this in the past and I think TPTB are working on it but it's probably far down on their list.

 

Benchmark information can be found at the Geodetic Survey Division of NRC. You have to sign up for access to the site but it doesn't cost anything.

 

There are already several virtual caches for benchmarks too. The Canadian Gravity Standardization Net and Canadian Base Network caches deal with locations all across Canada while the Brass Cap Cache moves to different benchmarks in Alberta. There are probably others too.

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MNR in Ontario has recently made their COSINE (Control Survey INformation Exchange) retrieval system free. You have to register however, and I'm not sure anyone outside of a related industry would qualify.

 

http://www.cosine.mnr.gov.on.ca/cosine

 

The website hasn't been updated yet, the application form still says it cost$$, but it is free, I just signed my workplace up for an account.

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Here is a disk that I found in Windsor Ontario Canada. I can not find any data on it in the Geodetic Survey Division of NRC. The marks on it say Ottawa , BM 2078, here is a picture of it . If anyone can tell me how to get info on this that would be great.

 

Thanks

 

fbfc0977-788c-4a5d-8b05-be68c1066bba.jpg

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i've been out of it for awhile. i use the NRCAN site, but i would like to see a place to log them and also bring in some other surveying organizations. There is a BC survey org but they charge you for getting the full description. i will continue to e-mail the survey, and now i can mention that there is "widespread interest". We shall see what we shall see.

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Here is a disk that I found in Windsor Ontario Canada. I can not find any data on it in the Geodetic Survey Division of NRC. The marks on it say Ottawa , BM 2078, here is a picture of it . If anyone can tell me how to get info on this that would be great.

 

Thanks

 

fbfc0977-788c-4a5d-8b05-be68c1066bba.jpg

From the NRC web site geodetic survey divison

CSRS Online Database

http://www.geod.nrcan.gc.ca/index_e/produc...ine_data_e.html

using Station Name search

2078

 

 

Vertical Datum : CGVD28

Elevation : 187.360 m

Order : First Order

Method : Differential

Adjustment Line : VA11U71

Published Year : 1981

 

STATION MARKER INFORMATION AND LOCATION

 

Marker Type : Permanent Agency Marker

Inspected in : 1933

Status : Good

Inspection Comments : None

 

WINDSOR

 

ENTRANCE TO JACKSON PARK, AT SOUTHEAST CORNER OF OUELETTE AVENUE AND TECUMSEH

ROAD, TABLET IN SOUTH FACE OF ARTIFICIAL STONE BASE, 45.7 M SOUTH OF SOUTH LINE

OF TECUMSEH ROAD, 81 CM BELOW BRICKWORK OF PILLAR AT EAST LINE OF OUELETTE

AVENUE.

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Would certainly be of interest to be able to log Canadian benchmarks - if TPTB don't get round to it maybe someone more capable than I could build a site. The UK have already done that at GCUK - Trigpointing .

 

Some of the more interesting in this area (close to the US border) are US benchmarks on the Canadian side of the border (and Canadian ones on the US side). And there is a Canadian benchmark legally floating around the US as a TB: Locationless Benchmark

 

Here's a US one in Canada that is almost locationless:

 

74801_1500.jpg

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It would certainly be easy enough to add canadian benchmarks to the geocaching site. The digital records are easily accessible and creating a database would be more time consuming than difficult unless you wrote a batch to download and convert the needed files. I've not noticed geobase mentioned here before, so for persons interested in downloading all Primary Vertical benchmarks by mapsheet they can be found in shapefile format (for Arcgis and arcview, also oziexplorer and others) or GML (Geography markup language) they can be found at http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/Geobase?&sit...d=1-002-007-001 on the the geobase data extraction site.

 

Hope this helps benchmark hunters,

 

peace,

 

sasquatchking

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I would love to see it. Even if it just starts out by cachers locating them and inputing them. Many cachers can find out data on caps themselves, even if the entire database is not availiable at this time. There could be a possibility of contacting each province to start with. I believe that many provinces integrate national control benchmarks into their own network. It's a start... Being from Alberta, I use the SPIN system to find Alberta Survey Control Markers. As mentioned by PDOP, I can also use the Canadian Spatial Reference System Online Database (CSRS page) to access data for National benchmarks.

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If you do start going after Canadian benchmarks and you want to make some maps, GPS Visualizer has very nice Canadian background choices available.

 

(Input to GPS Visualizer can be in the form of geocaching.com LOC files, GPX files, plain text, you name it.)

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I downloaded all the information for the BMs in my area (Caledon, ON) over a year ago. I wasn't able to find any of the more interesting older ones. Ie: ones attached to railway culverts on lines decommissioned before the war etc. Also found the coordinates to be quite out of whack going by references to nearby landmarks. There are no lack of survey markers where I live, but buried in residential sidewalks don't really qualify as places of interest to me, but I appreciate that others find these interesting. Also, there are so many agencies in Canada that place markers you'd have to draw from several sources to compile a complete list. I've also hunted several triangulation stations but have only found remains of one. These can be interesting because they are (almost) always on high ground so after I finish looking for them its an easy ride on my mtn bike back to the car. :blink:

 

Cheers!

Coupar-Angus

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It would certainly be easy enough to add canadian benchmarks to the geocaching site. The digital records are easily accessible and creating a database would be more time consuming than difficult unless you wrote a batch to download and convert the needed files. I've not noticed geobase mentioned here before, so for persons interested in downloading all Primary Vertical benchmarks by mapsheet they can be found in shapefile format (for Arcgis and arcview, also oziexplorer and others) or GML (Geography markup language) they can be found at http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/Geobase?&sit...d=1-002-007-001 on the the geobase data extraction site.

 

Hope this helps benchmark hunters,

 

peace,

 

sasquatchking

i used this link to find benchmarks and see that there is a ton in my area. the only problem is i don't know what datrum to use. It says vertical datrum but how does that convert into a format for the Gpsr to use. any help would be good.

 

and as you can see by my question i am interested in hunting Canadian benchmarks

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>>> It says vertical datrum <<<

 

I don't think that's going to help you. Vertical (altitude) isn't going to be of much help in locating something. What you want to find out is the horizontal location. That can be translated to GPS coordinates.

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There are benchmarks every where here and many different kinds.

I think that geocaching.com should have a bench mark logging page for Canadian benchmarks. There is not a list available to look at which supplies coordinates but the best way to do it is for people who find them to post their find with a photo and the coords. There are benchmarks placed by the Federal and each Provincal and territorial governments. The list I look at for ones in BC is based on a map. The map of the Province comes up and it is covered in dots representing each benchmark. You then zoom in on the map and can get to see bench marks in any given area in the province. The map zooms in to individual streets and then shows the number of the bench mark. If you want to know if there are any in your area you need to do it this way. Bench marks are not replaced anymore when they are dug up with highway construction etc. GPS and other ways are used in place of benchmarks now.

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I've put together somewhat of an Alberta list of benchmarks. You can download it from here.

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Hi

 

I've poked around the forums and realised that I may have a benchmark right across the street from me.

 

131_3109.jpg

 

I took it at night so the flash made it ugly but so I'll describe it.

 

Ringed around the outside reads "British coloumbia control survey".

Then a crown at the very top.

Then the numbers "78H7597".

Right above it there is what looks like a year but it only reads "19".

 

Could you please tell me if this is a benchmark?

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I am very interested. As a matter of fact, my brother-in-law and I were just talking about it last night. His topo maps have benchmarks indicated, but there is no way of honing in on them to locate them easily. It would be very cool to be able to do a search for them here in Canada.

Edited by yantski

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Given that Geocaching.com has not chosen to update the five-year-old database of U.S. benchmarks, I think it's quite unlikely they'll add Canadian benchmarks to the site.

 

However, there is a section on sister site Waymarking.com for Canadian benchmarks. I haven't used it, but I believe it contains only benchmarks added by users and is not pre-populated with a database of Canadian benchmarks, like Geocaching is with marks from that other big country in North America.

 

Cheers,

-ArtMan-

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Given that Geocaching.com has not chosen to update the five-year-old database of U.S. benchmarks, I think it's quite unlikely they'll add Canadian benchmarks to the site.

 

However, there is a section on sister site Waymarking.com for Canadian benchmarks. I haven't used it, but I believe it contains only benchmarks added by users and is not pre-populated with a database of Canadian benchmarks, like Geocaching is with marks from that other big country in North America.

 

Cheers,

-ArtMan-

I agree, it is unlikely that they would add Canadian benchmarks to geocaching.com. However, a number of cachers have once again been asking about it so the conversation is being revisited. Waymarking does allow the creation of Canadian Benchmarks but unfortunately it will never have the popularity of Benchmark hunting that the US database has at Geocaching.com.

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It's a little known fact that a few triangulation stations in Canada located within a few miles of the US-Canadian border and set by the IBC when they surveyed the boundary, are actually included in the NGS database. I've recovered a few, like QH0528 "PROS" and QH0373 "MORAN IBC"). PROS is about 90 feet into Canada, but MORAN IBC is close to 1/4 of a mile.

 

The datasheet shows them as being in the adjacent state (NH and ME in these cases).

Edited by Papa-Bear-NYC

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It's a little known fact that a few triangulation stations in Canada located withing a few miles of the US-Canadian border and set by the IBC when they surveyed the boundary, are actually included in the NGS database. I've recovered a few, like QH0528 "PROS" and QH0373 "MORAN IBC"). PROS is about 90 feet into Canada, but MORAN IBC is close to 1/4 of a mile.

 

The datasheet shows them as being in the adjacent state (NH and ME in these cases).

 

It would be wonderful to be able to log Canadian benchmarks. Let's hope they are added to the website.

Edited by shorbird

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It's a little known fact that a few triangulation stations in Canada located within a few miles of the US-Canadian border and set by the IBC when they surveyed the boundary, are actually included in the NGS database. I've recovered a few, like QH0528 "PROS" and QH0373 "MORAN IBC"). PROS is about 90 feet into Canada, but MORAN IBC is close to 1/4 of a mile.

 

The datasheet shows them as being in the adjacent state (NH and ME in these cases).

I live near the border myself and have logged quite a few border monuments and a few other markers within a few feet of the border. Now if we could just add the part of Canada that "isn't" within a few feet of the US. Of course it's mostly snow so its hard to find anything that isn't sticking up in the air.

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Count us in for Canadian Benchmarks, especially in Central Ontario. I'd like to see another survey done too, the interest seems to be increasing.

 

Cheers,

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I can't imagine why ANY U.S. benchmarker wouldn't want to record a recovery on a mark found while visiting our brothers & sisters to the north! B.C. and Alberta are beautiful!

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Maybe I'm missing something, but what is the problem? Aren't all (or most) Canadian geodetic survey markers ("benchmarks" in the general sense) available in various databases, like here. There is a list of other useful links on the Waymaking Canadian Benchmarks page and also here, although as I write this it seems the Waymarking page format is a little messed up (you can still copy & paste the links). Granted, at this point I think you would have to post your finds on the Waymarking site (as opposed to Geocaching or the NGS). But the Canadian data and the marks are out there, so go find them.

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I can't imagine why ANY U.S. benchmarker wouldn't want to record a recovery on a mark found while visiting our brothers & sisters to the north! B.C. and Alberta are beautiful!

I completely agree. Now how are you going to go about doing that?

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Maybe I'm missing something, but what is the problem? Aren't all (or most) Canadian geodetic survey markers ("benchmarks" in the general sense) available in various databases, like here. There is a list of other useful links on the Waymaking Canadian Benchmarks page and also here, although as I write this it seems the Waymarking page format is a little messed up (you can still copy & paste the links). Granted, at this point I think you would have to post your finds on the Waymarking site (as opposed to Geocaching or the NGS). But the Canadian data and the marks are out there, so go find them.

The problem is as you have stated in your post that there are a number of database sources. There is not one convenient location to look them up. Also there is no way to log them except for the 200 or so that have been entered into Waymarking. I'm not sure if we have half million or a million to go to get the database up to speed and then people can start logging them. Or what if someone uploaded the available database to Waymarking say and let everyone start logging finds? It might even give Waymarking a boost if it contained such a database.

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