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Would you have a problem with this?


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I wanted to know how others felt about posting corrds using metal banding, plastic, or wood items with corrds on them? Or just nailing in to a tree to hold a magnet in place that would look like bark or a branch. What I am tring to say, is it cool to drive a nail into a tree.

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I've seen coord tags wire-tied to trees, but not any nails used. I'm sure someone would get upset with it. However I've seen trees "tagged" with aluminum or stainless nails and ID tags by landscapers and forest preserve employees.

 

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"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand."

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We have many trees with markers and signs of various types nailed or screwed to them. Most are placed by the forestry people, either on private lands that are open to the public or on BLM land or in National Forest land. I would believe that a nail or screw would do less damage than a chain or wire rope around it since the tree is growing and will eventually grow around the chain/wire if it doesn't break it. Since you are putting the nail or screw into a rather large tree, it probably won't even penetrate beyond the bark.

 

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Just make sure that there's no chance of some unlucky logger or mill worker getting hurt by a nail breaking a chain or blade. Use very light nails or ones made of a softer material. ie. copper, aluminum, brass. Putting spikes in tree's is a major no no and is an act of eco-terrorism. Get caught doing that by a forestry worker and you'd be lucky to get out of the woods to face the authorities.

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quote:
Originally posted by eroyd:

ie. copper, aluminum, brass.


Not copper or brass. Copper is bad for plants, and brass is a copper alloy.

 

(edit: actually, some sources say that not only is copper not bad for trees, but it's a major component of some fungicides. So that may be a myth. In any case, no sense taking chances.)

 

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Nails will not harm the tree, in fact, it is actually good for the tree as it provides essential minerals like iron and tin. Use a BIG nail if you like, the bigger the better. A stainless steel screw is even better as it provides chromium and won’t rust. Just walk right up and screw the tree, its branches will give you a “thank you” sigh. Screw it or nail it to your heart’s content. One of my caches has a steel washer with the word “geocache” stamped into the upper half, and “under” encrypted below. The tree is actually a fallen log, so I didn’t really nail a live tree, but I would have.

 

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A little copper nail is bad for a tree. Didn't know that. Thanks for the tip.

I was thinking about the guys out there doing there jobs who might get a nasty surprise one day when they hit a large nail with there chainsaw. Being dismembered by a flying chain would really ruin ones day.

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We are talking about CITY trees. There won't be any loggers climbing any of these trees. I was just wanting to attach magnets or things that look like bark, something like that. I just do not want to be the bad dog nailing into trees upsetting everybody.

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I say go for it, as long as the nail's length is no more than 20% (arbitrary number) icon_rolleyes.gif the diameter of the tree. I just did a cache in a state forest with trail markers nailer to trees as well as ID markers screwed in some to. Last summer I took down a fence on our new property that had been absorbed by trees, and they are doing just fine. Ents are hardier creatures than you think.

 

These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes;

Nothing remains quite the same.

Through all of the islands and all of the highlands,

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I have no problems with you nailing markers etc. to trees. It's fairly common practise round these parts. There's lots of different situations and concerns out there. Its is a good topic for discussion and I'm glad you brought it up.

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quote:
Originally posted by ScurvyDog:

I wanted to know how others felt about posting corrds using metal banding, plastic, or wood items with corrds on them? Or just nailing in to a tree to hold a magnet in place that would look like bark or a branch. What I am tring to say, is it cool to drive a nail into a tree.


I'd recommend not driving it all the way in or use some of those 2 headed nails so it could easily be removed if need be.

City or Country tree, they're all subject to removal due to storm damage or who knows what so it's probably best to at least leave it to where the cutter has a chance at seeing it beforehand. It could booger up a saw blade in a hurry!

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If you do apply a tag to a tree:

 

1) use aluminum nails as they are soft and will not destroy a chain or saw blade. Even if you think these are city tree; some where along the line a storm might knock it over; A car might knock it over; the tree might be in a right of way; any of these might involve a rescue crew having to saw into the tree or a tree trimming crew might have to work with the tree.

 

2) I have been sticking my tags on the limbs where possible or below 12 inches high, the average height for a face to fall a tree.

 

3) I have been using drywall screws as you can get them in 1" inch lengths. And in case you have to remove them, they unscrew real easy.

 

logscaler.

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As a cache approver I'd have no problem with nails in a tree if the tree is on your property or if you've obtained permission from park management if it's a public park.

 

Beyond that I'm afraid it might be interpreted the same way burying a cache would be - in a negative light. You can argue until you're blue in the face that it's harmless, but if it's percieved as a negative by a park worker it can only hurt the sport.

 

Anyway, there are many alternatives to nails and screws.

 

erik - geocaching.com admin & tree hugger icon_wink.gif

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A nail does indeed have the potential to harm a tree. Not in and of itself, necessarily, but by making a break in the protective 'skin' of tree. Just as a cut can become infected, a nail can allow insects or diseases inside. The chances of this happening depends greatly on the environment, how much stress the tree is already under, and so forth, but the chance is not trivial.

 

Attaching wire or plastic around the trunk or a branch is less intrusive, assuming the cacher hider checks on it periodically to ensure the tree is not growing around it. (Not that such a thing is likely to happen during the lifetime of the average cache in any case...)

 

Ron/yumitori

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If you check the benchmark listings for the Kaibab Nat'l Forest in Northern Az. you can find benchmarks that are nails with washers affixed to trees.

Personally I would avoid nails to avoid being considered an eco-terrorist (it's one of their favorite ways to harass loggers.).

A better way to attach something to a tree would be to use monofilament fishing line. Since we should check our caches once or twice a year minimum, you could check the mono at that time. Also it's cheap!

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As a long time trail maintainer, I've found it to be common practice to nail trail blazes into trees. Nails are also used by NY's DEC for blazing their trails. So I'm guessing that the nails have been found to do little harm to the tree.

 

Still, I don't think it's a practice we'd want to encourage among geocachers.

 

"Au pays des aveugles, les borgnes sont rois"

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I don't really see a small nail harming a huge tree. I've heard the 'copper nail' urban legend where 'just one will kill the whole tree'. Give me a break. I've seen close-strung barb-wire fences absorbed (I'm talking eaten) by trees so that after a few years the barbed wire is passing right through the wood of the tree itself and the tree is growing around it. Trees are tough. Treat them with respect though.

 

Driving a nail into a huge tree is not akin to driving a nail into one's forehead and should not be treated as such.

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If there is even a remotest possibility the tree will someday be milled into lumber or chipped (as in urban landscape trees) then do not use nails.

 

If you must use a nail or lag screw use the smallest that will work and use an aluminum nail. Do not pound the head flat against the bark. Leave the head protruding a half inch or so the growing tree will not completely cover the nail over time, or at least a long time.

 

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quote:
Originally posted by Forester II:

Metal can stain the wood fiber and in the case of some species turn a log worth hundreds of dollars and into firewood.

 

Really bad idea, don't do it.


 

Yeah, let's not put a nail into it, someone may want to cut it down!

 

Hmm. Let me get this straight. You want to protect the tree by not nailing into it so it can be topped, felled, and turned into lumber at a later date. Sounds like you're not looking out for the tree's best interests there<grin>. I'd rather pound a nail or two into it for something useful like a trail-marker, leave it standing in the forest where I think it will be fine, and too bad for the land developer who wants to clear a forest to make way for the new mini-mart to compete with the one already across the street.

 

Just my opinion.

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quote:
Originally posted by Zartimus:

quote:
Originally posted by Forester II:

Metal can stain the wood fiber and in the case of some species turn a log worth hundreds of dollars and into firewood.

 

Really bad idea, don't do it.


 

Yeah, let's not put a nail into it, someone may want to cut it down!

 

Hmm. Let me get this straight. You want to protect the tree by not nailing into it so it can be topped, felled, and turned into lumber at a later date. Sounds like you're not looking out for the tree's best interests there<grin>. I'd rather pound a nail or two into it for something useful like a trail-marker, leave it standing in the forest where I think it will be fine, and too bad for the land developer who wants to clear a forest to make way for the new mini-mart to compete with the one already across the street.

 

Just my opinion.


 

I should just let this drop but...

 

Boy you sure read allot into my statement. I guess you don't find lumber, paper or a variety of other things useful. My comment was not ment to protect the trees health or vigor. It was ment to protect the monitary value for the land owner regardless of ownership. I grow them to cut them and I don't work for the government. I'm still trying to figure out how you got to the mini-mart thing though. icon_confused.gif

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Putting a nail in a tree is no big deal. We used to nail boards to trees as kids to climb up into forts. We nailed up boards to build our forts. The trees survived all that abuse with no problems.

 

Of course back then we were real renegades. We rode bikes without helmets, rode in the car without seat belts or car seats, and climbed trees without safety harnesses (don't give the politicians any ideas). Maybe we were just tougher than todays kids. I think nature must have been tougher back then too. icon_wink.gif

 

One thing to consider is how long will it be there. I've screwed a reflector to a cedar tree by our driveway to make it more visible at night. The problem is that as the tree grows it pushes the reflector right over the screw, breaking the reflector. The screw gets completely sucked into the tree over time.

 

[This message was edited by 3fros on May 23, 2003 at 11:22 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Zartimus:

I don't really see a small nail harming a huge tree. I've heard the 'copper nail' urban legend where 'just one will kill the whole tree'. Give me a break. I've seen close-strung barb-wire fences absorbed (I'm talking eaten) by trees so that after a few years the barbed wire is passing right through the wood of the tree itself and the tree is growing around it. Trees are tough. Treat them with respect though.

 

Driving a nail into a huge tree is not akin to driving a nail into one's forehead and should not be treated as such.


 

Well ah..... actually, you are right and wrong. You are correct that nails, in general will not hurt a tree except as someone pointed out, it does leave a route for insects to get in possibly. On the other hand, rest assured that copper will kill trees. It's not an myth that I can find, and people have been using copper pipe for many many years to kill trees. Besides, there are not to many copper nails that I've seen, but I do like the suggestion of aluminum nails....very good idea.... A small finishing nail I think would be about perfect. (If its a large pine like we have around here, a small finishing nail wouldn't even penetrate through the bark.)

 

That all being said, even though I'm not what one would consider a "tree hugger"..... I don't necessarily believe that nailing anything to a tree should be a standard practice, unless you did it on a branch where permanent harm wouldn't affect the main trunk. There were many good ideas presented, try one of those.

 

If God is your co-pilot, it's time to change seats!!!

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quote:
Originally posted by Forester II:

Boy you sure read allot into my statement. I guess you don't find lumber, paper or a variety of other things useful. My comment was not ment to protect the trees health or vigor. It was ment to protect the monitary value for the land owner regardless of ownership. I grow them to cut them and I don't work for the government. I'm still trying to figure out how you got to the mini-mart thing though. icon_confused.gif


 

True, you made no mention. It was an extreme example and not directed at you, apologies. And I should have said gas stations to compete with the other 3 gas stations. We appear to need them on every corner!

 

We can't put caches on private property, so no lumber baron should be hard put by the occasional nail.

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quote:
Originally posted by Northern-Lights:

On the other hand, rest assured that copper will kill trees. It's not an myth that I can find, and people have been using copper pipe for many many years to kill trees.


 

I've heard that story about killing an annoying neighbor's tree by pounding a copper nail into it. Most sites de-bunk this myth and sites who mention copper nails as a tree-killer attribute it to something they have 'heard' and have not ever tried.

 

Copper seems to be a major ingredient in most tree fungicides. I'm thinking the copper killing tree thing is an old-wives tale/urban myth.

 

http://www.wcisa.net/myths.asp

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