Mission 9 Project Ape cache missing

[+Geo_Raptor]

This is too bad...I was planning a trip to Washington to complete 2/3 of the triad, while at the two events later this summer...I understand and support Groundspeak's decision but it still is a bit disappointing. I guess I will be rethinking my travel plans...

There are still caches in Washington to search. One cache is gone for goodness sake. The tunnel is still there and so are numerous other caches. Seems a bit melodramatic to cancel travel plans over one cache.

Maybe I should re-phrase...my kids want to go to the GPS maze in Alberta this summer but we had already planned this trip first. But since this iconic cache has disappeared whats the rush? Cann't we come to Washington another time, to try the other caches and tunnel!?!

[+Corp Of Discovery]

I've already found an APE cache (#12 here in Illinois) and bypassed #9 while at GW last year because I wanted to do it the way it was intended- thru the tunnel. I was planning on coming back out this year to do just that. Don't think I'll be making that trip now tho. It's a shame that a rather unique cache (one of only a few with that icon and the only(?) way to get the souvenir) gets archived because of some jerk. I don't agree with the container being what made the APE caches APE caches- they were more than that. As for going to Brazil for the last one: not really feasible for the vast majority of cachers. Why not just archive that one too and be done with them all?

[jholly]

I've already found an APE cache (#12 here in Illinois) and bypassed #9 while at GW last year because I wanted to do it the way it was intended- thru the tunnel. I was planning on coming back out this year to do just that. Don't think I'll be making that trip now tho. It's a shame that a rather unique cache (one of only a few with that icon and the only(?) way to get the souvenir) gets archived because of some jerk. I don't agree with the container being what made the APE caches APE caches- they were more than that. As for going to Brazil for the last one: not really feasible for the vast majority of cachers. Why not just archive that one too and be done with them all?

[Pup Patrol]

My synopsis about it? I would say about 98% of folks who have posted in this thread are sad to see it go, many extremely so.

 

Added a relevant qualifier.

 

Special container muggled often, now missing = archived finally. It's what happens to other people and their caches.

[+Redfist]

I've already found an APE cache (#12 here in Illinois) and bypassed #9 while at GW last year because I wanted to do it the way it was intended- thru the tunnel. I was planning on coming back out this year to do just that. Don't think I'll be making that trip now tho. It's a shame that a rather unique cache (one of only a few with that icon and the only(?) way to get the souvenir) gets archived because of some jerk. I don't agree with the container being what made the APE caches APE caches- they were more than that. As for going to Brazil for the last one: not really feasible for the vast majority of cachers. Why not just archive that one too and be done with them all?

 

I hope not... I was going to go for Mission 9 this Sunday (Father's day) but now can't. I do go to Sao Paulo about once a quarter. Maybe one of these trips I'll extend by a day so I can go out to the last APE cache.

[+lamoracke]

My synopsis about it? I would say about 98% of folks who have posted in this thread are sad to see it go, many extremely so.

 

Added a relevant qualifier.

 

Special container muggled often, now missing = archived finally. It's what happens to other people and their caches.

 

Um. No. If you are going to change my quotes with a link, then you should do it correctly. Am sure its an honest mistake, but if you are going to edit what I say, you should do it right.

 

I was referring to people who are actually posting notes on the actual ape cache. I was not referring to the other thread with any percentage guesses.

Edited June 14, 2011 by lamoracke

[+Sol seaker]

Congratulations, you let the bad guys win. What a sad day for geocaching.

 

+1

[MisterEFQ]

Ya know there is a new Planet of the Apes movie coming out soon.

 

Maybe we can get a whole new series.

[+geodarts]

Ya know there is a new Planet of the Apes movie coming out soon.

 

Maybe we can get a whole new series.

 

Or maybe Grounspeak will find a new movie - the Adventures of Tintin, Dark Shadows, or Abraham Lincoln Vampre Killer come to mind - that will generate new complaints about how the game is too commercial, only to achieve iconic status ten years from now when the second to last one is archived.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

And no, I seriously doubt Moun10bike will archive this listing due to someone muggling it

If the cache container is taken, it should be archived.

If it turns out to be an Ape original box is the key, Then I will gracefully give up my Ape Cacahe in Brazil to either to Jon or Groundspeak if it can be done, its a very big peace of history for our sport. This will bring more pleasure to folks in the sport if there has to be a last one it should be in WA

I would take issue with this if it were done.

 

While it is no skin off my back one way or another I would think that treating this differently than the the other ones would be unfair.

No skin off your back and no icon off your list of icons. Maybe if they took away the icon when the cache is archived you would think differently.

 

Maybe if you lived in South America instead of the Pacific Northwest you'd feel differently.

[+Corfmania]

Someone earlier said that there was nothing interesting near Southern Bowl. Not many geocaches true, but plenty of interesting people, places, and things.

 

Let's also not forget that there are probably a number of trackables out there that have a mission that can't be completed any more.

 

Let's face it. Time passes and APE caches get harder and harder to log. Someday it will be impossible. Respect, Mourn, and move on with life.

[+_Shaddow_]

Let's face it. Time passes and APE caches get harder and harder to log. Someday it will be impossible. Respect, Mourn, and move on with life.

 

+2

Edited June 14, 2011 by _Shaddow_

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

This could become the Holy Grail of geocaching.

 

We know that it existed. It is described in our ancient logs.

 

It is sacred to our people, but it went missing and now we know that it is out there somewhere but don't know where.

 

The Grail plays a different role everywhere it appears, but in most versions of the legend the hero must prove himself worthy to be in its presence. In the early tales, Brian's immaturity prevents him from fulfilling his destiny when he first encounters the Grail, and he must grow spiritually and mentally before he can locate it again. In later tellings the Grail is a symbol of Jeremy's grace, available to all but only fully realized by those who prepare themselves spiritually, like the saintly Hydee.

 

People could be hunting this revered grail cache for thousands of years.

Edited June 14, 2011 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+Castle Mischief]

Congratulations, you let the bad guys win. What a sad day for geocaching.

 

+1

 

So the better option is to keep a frequently muggled cache in place and increase the chances of a muggle/cacher altercation?

[+DanOCan]

In another discussion I commented that the APE cache really just represents "pixels on your profile."

 

Go to Washington. Find GCD, the oldest cache in Washington, just across the valley from the APE. Locate Iron Horse, it's closer to the tunnel anyway. Hike through the tunnel (once it reopens). Same great experiences, the only thing that changed is one less icon on your profile.

 

Hey, I love Geocaching history as much as anyone, but let's keep a sense of perspective.

[+dfx]

In another discussion I commented that the APE cache really just represents "pixels on your profile."

 

Go to Washington. Find GCD, the oldest cache in Washington, just across the valley from the APE. Locate Iron Horse, it's closer to the tunnel anyway. Hike through the tunnel (once it reopens). Same great experiences, the only thing that changed is one less icon on your profile.

 

Hey, I love Geocaching history as much as anyone, but let's keep a sense of perspective.

 

The perspective is that a lot of cachers do care about those "pixels in their profile", just as a lot of cachers care about their find count or other statistics. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[+Adam and Lisa]

I'm going to keep this post short and just let our opinion be known, for what it's worth to the discussion as a whole.

 

Groundspeak has made a mistake in archiving Mission 9.

 

If Groundspeak has plans to replace, commemorate, or otherwise honor this cache with something new (like a plaque) I believe they would do well to announce these plans right now, even if nothing is set in stone yet. People are changing their summer travel plans right now.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Adam and Lisa

[+pklong]

Well there is still the APE cache in Brazil. I think it's just about the same difficulty / cost as getting to the states from the UK

[+GeoLegoFam]

Bummer

Edited June 14, 2011 by GeoLegoFam

[+EFHutton]

Here is my 2 cents worth.

Since replacing the APE cache would cause controversy, I say don't replace it. Since there are already lots of people coming from all over the world to visit the spot that the APE cache was at, let them come. An event can be created for the day after the Block Party at Groundspeak to place a "Memorial Plaque" at the location of the original APE cache (just like the one down in Oregon for the First Hide)and let everyone who wants to be there participate in the ceremonious placing of the plaque. A special icon can be created for it too. The APE thief cannot ruin THAT! Maybe a new catagory of caches can be created that is called "Historic Caches" with the theme being any cache that has a historic nature either to the world or geocaching in general.

Just an idea......

[+blb9556]

My goal was to find a cache of each type except reverse. Can't happen any longer, no way I can afford to fly to Brazil, I'm really not a fan of traveling abroad either. Maybe we should start one of those online fundraisers to raise some $$$ to convince Groundspeak!

[Zosimos]

Thanks to Moun10bike for maintaining this cache over the years, but let's not forget he's also employed by Groundspeak. Many people seem to forget that this is a for-profit company supported by yearly premium membership fees and merchandise sales bought and paid by geocachers all over the world. This is no non-profit group, nor is it run by volunteers. For heaven's sake, GS could afford to hire two FTEs to sit in lawn chairs at the site to make sure TOL doesn't go missing if they wanted to. Obviously, I'm not suggesting this as a viable solution but I believe it illustrates Groundspeak's responsibility to make more of an effort to maintain TOL for the good of in the sport. If this means letting someone else adopt and care for the cache, then so be it. What exactly gives GS the right to pull the plug? Because they own the Web site? Please....

 

I, for one, am not afraid to ask for this small return on investment on behalf of the millions of people worldwide who pay the salaries of all the "lackeys" at HQ. The geocaching community should be the group who decides if this cache should be archived. It is not appropriate for a handful of people, who now find it inconvenient because some rogue cacher has stolen the can, to make the decision "for us." I myself have replaced a large ammo (similar to the APE can) three times after a cache muggling. I'm not going to let the bad guys win. Why should we?

Edited June 14, 2011 by thebigrocketboy

[+blb9556]

Just quickly....http://shop.geocaching.com/default/trackable-items-2/geotriad-geocoin.html

[+Scubasonic]

Here is my 2 cents worth.

Since replacing the APE cache would cause controversy, I say don't replace it. Since there are already lots of people coming from all over the world to visit the spot that the APE cache was at, let them come. An event can be created for the day after the Block Party at Groundspeak to place a "Memorial Plaque" at the location of the original APE cache (just like the one down in Oregon for the First Hide)and let everyone who wants to be there participate in the ceremonious placing of the plaque. A special icon can be created for it too. The APE thief cannot ruin THAT! Maybe a new catagory of caches can be created that is called "Historic Caches" with the theme being any cache that has a historic nature either to the world or geocaching in general.

Just an idea......

 

I think that is a great idea after allit has always been said that if it goes missing it is gone for good. Even though it is terrible. I remember when I went to the MEGA in Carnation I made the APE find and I guess someone at that time had stolen the lid of the AMMO Can what a shame.

 

Scubasonic

[+Scubasonic]

This is no non-profit group, nor is it run by volunteers. For heaven's sake, GS could afford to hire two FTEs to sit in lawn chairs at the site to make sure TOL doesn't go missing if they wanted to.

 

Hey I'll take that job,oh yeah it rains to much forget it......

 

SS

[+jipow]

Just asking, why should they errect a plaque at the site? It's not the last APE cache. Everyone throws the plaque at the original stash as a example,apples to apples, where is the plaque for the 2nd stach hid? Same concept. Now if Brizil (The last APE cache) goes missing...maybe.

[+Andromeda321]

yay! Brazil, bring on the $140 visa!!!!!

Funny, I'd be allowed to go free, without visa

 

Brazil has a reciprocity scheme when it comes to immigration into their country whereby they require citizens of X country to undergo anything their own citizens are required to do to enter country X. Because the United States happens to be one of the most difficult to enter countries in the world for Brazilians, it's definitely a hassle to get the visa if you have a US passport (I don't think Canadians have it much cheaper, but on the other hand most Europeans can go in visa free).

[Mr.Yuck]

Ya know there is a new Planet of the Apes movie coming out soon.

 

Maybe we can get a whole new series.

 

Or maybe Grounspeak will find a new movie - the Adventures of Tintin, Dark Shadows, or Abraham Lincoln Vampre Killer come to mind - that will generate new complaints about how the game is too commercial, only to achieve iconic status ten years from now when the second to last one is archived.

 

Lets face it. The iconic status id due to, pun intended, the icon.

 

How about those commercial Timberland caches that have thousands of European cachers up in arms. There's no special Icon there, and there will never be iconic status.

[+grateful cacher]

One thing to remember is that this cache is in a national forest, and one can't just go putting a plaque there without government approval. I remember when the tunnel was closed, some "cachers" jumped the fence and went to the cache anyway. That caused some ill will between GS and TPTB. That may have even factored into the decision to archive it rather than replace it. Yes, it's gone, but it will be remembered as one of the iconic caches of all times. There are other caches that are just as meaningful. Heck, head to Kansas and get Mingo......

[+NattyBooshka]

Project APE... Down to one

 

Strange though we mourn and remember these pieces of the promotion of a film that came and went without anybody really caring.

 

Yeah, they were an icon on the profile... But how many different coin ones are there? Icons mean very little. Give the site a couple of months and place a memorial cache, thenin reality the game has lost nothing.

[+Harry Dolphin]

The other option, of course, is to use the APE cache container in the Lily Pad, and call it Mission 0: Tunnel of the Light Frogs. Of course, then there would be two parts of the triad at the lily pad... But, hopefully, it would be safe from muggles/maggots...

[+RayQix]

I'd say this has brought-up enough emotions that GS should do -something-.

 

What that something is, i'm not sure.

 

But UNarchiving it would be a start.

[+geodarts]

I'd say this has brought-up enough emotions that GS should do -something-.

 

Jeremy's last word from the feedback thread asking that the cache be replaced or commemorated with a plaque:

 

The cache container no longer exists, so the cache has been archived, which is consistent with the other Project APE caches. Even if a plaque were to be erected at the location it would not have the desired Project APE icon as part of the listing.

[+EFHutton]

I'd say this has brought-up enough emotions that GS should do -something-.

 

Jeremy's last word from the feedback thread asking that the cache be replaced or commemorated with a plaque:

 

The cache container no longer exists, so the cache has been archived, which is consistent with the other Project APE caches. Even if a plaque were to be erected at the location it would not have the desired Project APE icon as part of the listing.

 

Maybe so, but the "trifecta" should still exist. There IS a coin that commemorates the trifecta, why can't there be a plaque there that allows the trifecta to still exist? At least let it be there for this summer and figure something else out for the long term. The icon doesn't need to be the "A.P.E." cache icon.....it can be the "Trifecta" icon instead. Think ouside the box!

[+DanOCan]

In another discussion I commented that the APE cache really just represents "pixels on your profile."

 

Go to Washington. Find GCD, the oldest cache in Washington, just across the valley from the APE. Locate Iron Horse, it's closer to the tunnel anyway. Hike through the tunnel (once it reopens). Same great experiences, the only thing that changed is one less icon on your profile.

 

Hey, I love Geocaching history as much as anyone, but let's keep a sense of perspective.

The perspective is that a lot of cachers do care about those "pixels in their profile", just as a lot of cachers care about their find count or other statistics. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

Never said there was anything wrong with it, just encouraging a sense of perspective. I understand the feeling of loss, perhaps I just moved through the stages of grief faster than others.

[+Scubasonic]

One thing to remember is that this cache is in a national forest, and one can't just go putting a plaque there without government approval. I remember when the tunnel was closed, some "cachers" jumped the fence and went to the cache anyway. That caused some ill will between GS and TPTB. That may have even factored into the decision to archive it rather than replace it. Yes, it's gone, but it will be remembered as one of the iconic caches of all times. There are other caches that are just as meaningful. Heck, head to Kansas and get Mingo......

 

Hey Rich DANG looks like Brazil is in my future after ET 2 and YUMA, and..........man when does it all end

 

Scubasonic

[+Viajero Perdido]

yay! Brazil, bring on the $140 visa!!!!!

Funny, I'd be allowed to go free, without visa

If you have a Canadian passport, Brazil needs an expensive visa. Not to mention your bank statements and a whole bunch of personal info before you can get that expensive visa.

 

I was visiting the continent anyway, so I looked at the requirements for Brazil, rolled my eyes, and said [deleted] Brazil.

[+WRASTRO]

One thing to remember is that this cache is in a national forest, and one can't just go putting a plaque there without government approval. I remember when the tunnel was closed, some "cachers" jumped the fence and went to the cache anyway. That caused some ill will between GS and TPTB. That may have even factored into the decision to archive it rather than replace it. Yes, it's gone, but it will be remembered as one of the iconic caches of all times. There are other caches that are just as meaningful. Heck, head to Kansas and get Mingo......

As a minor point of clarification, it is actually in a long, thin state park.

[+Planet]

I still get a note now and then from cachers wishing that my Return to the Planet of the Apes cache was still an Ape cache. But the container and log book were both gone, this was way before icons were ever introduced, and the cache page was edited. Who knew icons would happen and become such a hoopla? 20/20 hindsight doesn't do me any good years later, eh? It is still an active cache in a nice park. To me, that's what matters.

[+hydnsek]

One thing to remember is that this cache is in a national forest, and one can't just go putting a plaque there without government approval. I remember when the tunnel was closed, some "cachers" jumped the fence and went to the cache anyway. That caused some ill will between GS and TPTB. That may have even factored into the decision to archive it rather than replace it. Yes, it's gone, but it will be remembered as one of the iconic caches of all times. There are other caches that are just as meaningful. Heck, head to Kansas and get Mingo......

As a minor point of clarification, it is actually in a long, thin state park.

Yes, Mission 9: Tunnel of Light was in Iron Horse State Park, and WA state parks require permits for all cache placements. We had to update the permit last summer prior to hosting the Going APE event. Any new placement would have to be approved by WSP as well.

 

But no, fence jumping had nothing to do with the archival, and besides, the tunnel reopens on July 5, so no more fences.

Edited June 15, 2011 by hydnsek

[+slukster]

How does this sound. Someone come up with a replacment container identical to the original, put it in place and then log a "found it" and say "Hey, it looks like the cache thief brought it back out of the goodness of his heart. And he even filled it with some great swag!" Since there was nothing left on the original container identifying it as such then who could prove otherwise?

[+dfx]

yay! Brazil, bring on the $140 visa!!!!!

Funny, I'd be allowed to go free, without visa

If you have a Canadian passport, Brazil needs an expensive visa. Not to mention your bank statements and a whole bunch of personal info before you can get that expensive visa.

 

Yeah yeah I know. I'm not a Canadian citizen (and not US either), that's why

[+EMU38]

A truly sad time. Thank you Moun10bike for all your efforts to keep the cache alive over these many years.

My son and I were fortunate to visit the cache last October and complete the Triad. We enjoyed the hike and the beautiful scenery. It is a shame other geocachers will not have the same experience.

[avroair]

And no, I seriously doubt Moun10bike will archive this listing due to someone muggling it

If the cache container is taken, it should be archived.

If it turns out to be an Ape original box is the key, Then I will gracefully give up my Ape Cacahe in Brazil to either to Jon or Groundspeak if it can be done, its a very big peace of history for our sport. This will bring more pleasure to folks in the sport if there has to be a last one it should be in WA

I would take issue with this if it were done.

 

While it is no skin off my back one way or another I would think that treating this differently than the the other ones would be unfair.

 

I disagree with the whole "if the container is missing, then archive it policy," many caches have been replaced and continue. Hiding behind a policy doesn't make the policy right.

[+dfx]

I disagree with the whole "if the container is missing, then archive it policy," many caches have been replaced and continue. Hiding behind a policy doesn't make the policy right.

 

APE caches aren't just caches though. Hence the different icon and all that. Not that I agree with the policy myself, just saying.

[jholly]

I disagree with the whole "if the container is missing, then archive it policy," many caches have been replaced and continue. Hiding behind a policy doesn't make the policy right.

 

APE caches aren't just caches though. Hence the different icon and all that. Not that I agree with the policy myself, just saying.

And this one also had a souvenir which *none* of the other ape caches had or probably will ever have.

[+Sol seaker]

You can say (and probably will) that I am only saying this because I've already got the icon, but I say the cache was about a lot more than the icon.

 

It was the last of it's kind in the US, the second last in the world.

It was nice that it was a hike to get there, through beautiful woods, and soon would have been a hike through a tunnel once again.

 

Still there's something more about that cache than the icon, than the hike and great scenery, than the metal container with the ape painted on it.

 

It may have started out as just an advertisement, but it has grown into a sort of geocaching mecca.

 

I really doubt that people were willing to spend thousands to get there from Europe for just an icon. It was more than that.

 

We need our destinations. We need our meccas. We need special places to travel to.

 

Maybe it's just an excuse to see new places, but in a way that's what all geocaches are anyway. A good excuse to get outdoors, explore and see something new.

 

These special caches get people farther to see something new.

 

 

I think we should try for a plaque.

If Jeremy says it shouldn't get the icon, that's fine. I have no problem with that.

Let's get the plaque anyway.

If people were only traveling for the icon, then they won't come. But if it was more, then they will still have their mecca.

 

I vote for a plaque with no icon.

Let's have this continue any way we can.

 

And then it should be a bit safer from Cache maggots, and the maggot would not have won.

 

We need destination caches.

[+Mountain Lovers]

I tip my hat to Moun10Bike for his continued effort at keeping the cache alive. I must also agree with LewesClan77 in that unfortunate as it may seem, all good things sometimes end. We lost our Ape cache here in So. California because of its location. I was fortunate enough to have made a journey to Washington last May and paid a visit to this cache along the Iron Horse Trail. I will continue on the path to return this August for the block party as well as heading east to this area to do a bit-o-caching. After all, the oldest cache in Washington is not to far from where the Ape event will be held.

The loss of this cache may be sentimental to some and heartbreaking to others. But lets all be real, haven't we all seen many great caches in our own neck of the woods get archived and we could do nothing about it?

Other will come and others will fall. The sun will come up in the morning just like today. We still put our pants on one leg at a time.

Look to the future with great expectations and let the past rest in peace.

Mountain Lovers

Pam & Richard

Southern California

Edited June 15, 2011 by Mountain Lovers

[4wheelin_fool]

How does this sound. Someone come up with a replacment container identical to the original, put it in place and then log a "found it" and say "Hey, it looks like the cache thief brought it back out of the goodness of his heart. And he even filled it with some great swag!" Since there was nothing left on the original container identifying it as such then who could prove otherwise?

 

I already suggested such a thing, but since it's already archived it's highly unlikely that would happen. Since it was chained up already, I don't think replacing it would do much good. The plaque would be a good idea though, especially if TPTB made a new, but unique, icon for it and all of the other Ape caches that have gone missing. The icon is what it's all about.

[+grateful cacher]

I'll get my passport ready....

 

One thing to remember is that this cache is in a national forest, and one can't just go putting a plaque there without government approval. I remember when the tunnel was closed, some "cachers" jumped the fence and went to the cache anyway. That caused some ill will between GS and TPTB. That may have even factored into the decision to archive it rather than replace it. Yes, it's gone, but it will be remembered as one of the iconic caches of all times. There are other caches that are just as meaningful. Heck, head to Kansas and get Mingo......

 

Hey Rich DANG looks like Brazil is in my future after ET 2 and YUMA, and..........man when does it all end

 

Scubasonic