Mission 9 Project Ape cache missing

[+KoosKoos]

Well, actually... no. Scenario 2, Option B is not plausible.

 

At the end of that hike through the tunnel, yeah - you might find an ammo can that looks like every other ammo can in the world. Or you might find a bison tube. Heck, you might just find lock-n-lock with a cracked lid and nothing inside but a soggy log book and a "Come to our Church!" flyer - doesn't matter. If you're out for the experience, no matter what the experience is - you'll get it. And you'll tell the story to your mates back home over a pint. THIS is what Mission 9 is all about. Not the silly container. THE EXPERIENCE. Saying that you did the TRIAD, man! Icons and souvenirs are just icing on the cake. Groundspeak and the caching community have made this one special. We have collectively set it up as a stop on the great pilgrimage. It was irresponsible of Groundspeak to think they could take that away from us.

 

I wonder how many people might pause and reflect on this occurrence when it comes time to renew that premium membership?

 

So make GC79 the new piece of the trifecta. Similar experience, similar area, people still get their "pilgrimage" and the APE cache policy stays the same.

[+geodarts]

So make GC79 the new piece of the trifecta. Similar experience, similar area, people still get their "pilgrimage" and the APE cache policy stays the same.

 

I am not sure when the idea of a Trifecta or Triad became so important. Was it around the time of Geowoodstock or the Groundspeak HQ block party? We attended the HQ party because it fit in well with a trip to the Olympic Peninsula, but I had no idea it was part of a crowning achievement of geocaching until I saw the coin for sale. To be honest, getting an earthcache at Hurricane Ridge or a virtual at an amazing Olympic seascoast felt like more of a geocaching achievement to me.

 

Perhaps they need to designate a new Trifecta or place a new cache at the old Mission 9 site and give it a Triad icon. Or create a series of destination caches with a new icon. Let the movie tie-in cache go the way of all the previous movie tie-in caches. For those who seek that particular icon, there remains a trip to Brazil, or eventually it might go the way of the locationless cache icons. But recognize that destinations are important and do something different that could take this into account.

Edited June 17, 2011 by mulvaney

[+addisonbr]

I am not sure when the idea of a Trifecta or Triad became so important. Was it around the time of Geowoodstock or the Groundspeak HQ block party? We attended the HQ party because it fit in well with a trip to the Olympic Peninsula, but I had no idea it was part of a crowning achievement of geocaching until I saw the coin for sale.

 

Perhaps they need to designate a new Trifecta or place a new cache at the old Mission 9 site and give it a Triad icon. Or create a series of destination caches with a new icon.

The Triad developed very organically. Although Groundspeak did begin to market it in recent years, the Triad originally came from the ground up, not the top down.

 

Many cachers taking trips to the Pacific NW over the years seemed to mark three caches in particular as "must-do" - the Plaque, HQ and the APE. The idea evolved out of a happy coincidence of perceived special-ness and geography. Mingo isn't a part of the Triad because it's much further away; I have little doubt that if it was a bucket along the side of the road of I-5 outside of Olympia rather than a bucket along the side of the road of I-70 in the middle of Kansas that it would probably be the fourth leg of the "Quad" (because cachers making the NW trip would visit).

 

I don't think just declaring another cache as a replacement for one leg of the Triad would really work.

[mresoteric]

If someone where to place an ammo box in the same spot the experience would be the same.

Again, it might be the same "to you", because things like the icon, the Trifecta and the suvenier are not important to you. To you, it's just another ammo can. Hopefully, I'll never get that jaded. But even the most cynical cacher should be able to grasp that things like the icon, the Trifecta and the souvenir might very well be important to others. I can assure you that achieving the Trifecta is important to me. If this means you have to discredit me by claiming I'm an icon junkie, I hope you'll reconsider. Typically I find both your caching and your Reviewer personas to be courteous and professional, and it does you no credit to insult those who you disagree with in this matter.

 

Who's insulting someone? He's expressing his own caching aesthetics, much like you do. His just seem to be slightly more refined than yours.

 

I guess I am the only one that understands where he's coming from. Because if I championed for the existence of the other caches only to have my concerns ignored time and time again, then I think I would definitely take the same stance as Briansnat when one of Groundspeak's pet caches went missing. Since they apparently took a hard line against all the other ape cache, then they had better take the same one with their favorite cache too.

 

At least that's the way I see it.

[mresoteric]

Sure, if Mingo goes away there's a next oldest to fill its place, but not with the APE caches and more specifically, not what the Washington APE cache has become. It has turned into "the cache to find" because it stands for so much: It's part of the "triad" Groundspeak promotes, it gives you a unique icon, it was a memento from the early days of geocaching, the experience getting there is not to be missed, etc.

 

Groundspeak should have thought about this when they decided to start archiving the other APE caches. They should have thought about this when they started promoting this APE cache. They should have thought about this when this APE cache's lid was stolen.

 

In short, Groundspeak should have known a while back that this day was coming. They had ample opportunity to reverse their policy and offer to let the other APE cache owners to unarchive their caches. They had ample opportunity to deal with this BEFORE someone stole the cache. It is a cache after all and caches are in the wild and subject to being stolen.

 

But it would be disingenuous to change policy now only because the one APE cache that is near and dear to tptb is the one that goes missing.

[+briansnat]

Yes, geocaching has changed since the last A.P.E. cache was archived, and not for the better. ####

I agree with that statement which is why this APE cache shouldn't be gone forever.

 

These days geocaching is about finding containers in uninspired locations. Park and grabs, numbers run trails, power trails. We need to have our iconic caches out there to remind us that geocaching is more than just another logbook. There was a time when every new cache took you to yet another park you didn't know about. These days every new cache takes you to a parking lot you wouldn't otherwise visit. Some cachers filter out all micros just so they have a better chance of finding something interesting.

 

What sets certain caches apart? I hear discussions all the time about visiting certain landmark caches: Mingo - the oldest active cache, The Original Stash Tribute Plaque, GC Headquarters, the APE cache, the oldest cache in any particular state, etc. Sure, if Mingo goes away there's a next oldest to fill its place, but not with the APE caches and more specifically, not what the Washington APE cache has become. It has turned into "the cache to find" because it stands for so much: It's part of the "triad" Groundspeak promotes, it gives you a unique icon, it was a memento from the early days of geocaching, the experience getting there is not to be missed, etc.

 

This APE cache is more than just the container and log and has become a destination cache for many. I wish I would have had the time to get it when I was in Washington a few years ago. I had even stopped the car just across from the tunnel, but at that time it hadn't reached the iconic status it has today. There was no "triad" then and there were other APE caches available. Now there is only one other and although it has the icon, it doesn't have nearly the following the one in Washington did.

 

The decision to archive the others was made in a different time. Times have changed. That decision should be reviewed.

 

Well this just makes the one in Brazil all the more special.

 

Anyway, if this were brought back, who's to say that the thief won't continue to steal it? There is obviously someone out there with a grudge, this is no ordinary "muggling". And with the outpouring of greif over its demise, a revived A.P.E. may well become a target for anybody who wants to mess with Groundspeak, the CO or geocachers in general. Imagine the disappointment then of people flying from all over the world to visit the cache and having to log a DNF because the thief nabbed it again.

[4wheelin_fool]

Thou has just attained the CROWNING ACHIEVEMENT of Geocaching

 

Edited June 17, 2011 by 4wheelin_fool

[+Scubasonic]

Hang em High

 

Edited June 17, 2011 by Scubasonic

[4wheelin_fool]

If someone where to place an ammo box in the same spot the experience would be the same.

Again, it might be the same "to you", because things like the icon, the Trifecta and the suvenier are not important to you. To you, it's just another ammo can. Hopefully, I'll never get that jaded. But even the most cynical cacher should be able to grasp that things like the icon, the Trifecta and the souvenir might very well be important to others. I can assure you that achieving the Trifecta is important to me. If this means you have to discredit me by claiming I'm an icon junkie, I hope you'll reconsider. Typically I find both your caching and your Reviewer personas to be courteous and professional, and it does you no credit to insult those who you disagree with in this matter.

 

Historically, when symbols become seen as much more important than the objects that they are supposed to represent it always creates major problems. It's a minor form of idolatry.

 

• 
   
  
• You go to the store and notice that the name brand items are a little bit better than the generic, but then when they cost double the amount, it makes little sense.
• A kid gets harassed at school constantly because his parents dont buy name brand clothes
• a crooked cop's word is taken over someone else's simply because he has the badge
• a person is voted into office simply because people find them attractive or because their brother did a good job and people are familiar with his name
• a traffic light is obviously malfuntioning but someone plows through it anyhow because its green and they technically have the right of way which results in a fatality
• a company hires relatives over qualified people because they are relatives
• a person gets bad treatment simply because of his skin color
• a CEO of a company makes a obviously bad decicion but nobody notices because he's the CEO
• a leader genocides his own people instead of representing them and has followers that blindly go along with him because he's "the boss"
• a person drinks a bottle of poison despite the foul odor because the label says its OK
• a guy shoots all of the bats in an area because they look evil but which results in a serious mosquito overpolulation
• a guy shoots someone in a road rage incident and goes to jail for most of his life because they raised their middle finger at them
• a girl gets married to someone she does not love but because they are well known or have money
• a book itself becomes more valued than the meaning inside of it
• a missing ammo can causes angst throughout the world in certain channels because of a few unique pixels that goes with it, and because it is part of a "crowning achievement"...
  

Edited June 17, 2011 by 4wheelin_fool

[+geodarts]

I would not have complained had Mission 9 been restored. And I will not complain because the only remaining APE icon is in Brazil -- or that the icon itself may someday join the list of icons that are no longer available.

 

But the most convincing argument I have read in this thread is that the Mission 9 cache was part of a trifecta that Groundspeak itself helped create through marketing it as one of the crowning achievements of caching. People seem to as disappointed in not being able to complete this accomplishment as much as they are disappointed in having to go to Brazil for the APE cache. So the more I thought about it, the more it seemed like the solution would be to create a challenge cache that can only be logged if you have visited HQ and the original stash. Place it at the Mission 9 site. Decorate the cache with triangles and give it a new icon - Triad - that would be unique to that cache. It would continue to serve as a destination. The trifecta would be preserved. And it might even encourage me to return to that site and walk through the tunnel once again after it reopens -- I would bring my family up there on a return trip even if a cache was not in place.

 

So for what it is worth, I created a feedback topic to that effect. It just seems to me that if the APE decision is as firm as it seems to be, then perhaps its time to think outside the film promotion and develop a solution that keeps this site as a destination.

Edited June 17, 2011 by mulvaney

[MisterEFQ]

Im surprised nobody has dropped another ammo can out there and made a new cache.

 

(Or a nano hidden in a small rock.)

[jholly]

Im surprised nobody has dropped another ammo can out there and made a new cache.

 

(Or a nano hidden in a small rock.)

It is on state park land. One has to feed the paper dragon in order to get the permit the reviewer will require to list the cache. Some seem to have more luck than others on getting required documentation. My experience is that I won't bother even trying.

[+DanOCan]

If you're out for the experience, no matter what the experience is - you'll get it. And you'll tell the story to your mates back home over a pint. THIS is what Mission 9 is all about. Not the silly container. THE EXPERIENCE. Saying that you did the TRIAD, man! Icons and souvenirs are just icing on the cake. Groundspeak and the caching community have made this one special. We have collectively set it up as a stop on the great pilgrimage. It was irresponsible of Groundspeak to think they could take that away from us.

 

Cool, so let's collectively re-create the triad using "Iron Horse" instead. It's older, it gives you the experience of going through the tunnel. Let's face it, the triad only became THE triad because cachers started to make it into something special and we can do it again. Problem solved?

[MisterEFQ]

Im surprised nobody has dropped another ammo can out there and made a new cache.

 

(Or a nano hidden in a small rock.)

It is on state park land. One has to feed the paper dragon in order to get the permit the reviewer will require to list the cache. Some seem to have more luck than others on getting required documentation. My experience is that I won't bother even trying.

 

Well heres to hoping somebody takes the time and does.

 

Sounds like a cool trip once that path is opened up.

[jholly]

Im surprised nobody has dropped another ammo can out there and made a new cache.

 

(Or a nano hidden in a small rock.)

It is on state park land. One has to feed the paper dragon in order to get the permit the reviewer will require to list the cache. Some seem to have more luck than others on getting required documentation. My experience is that I won't bother even trying.

 

Well heres to hoping somebody takes the time and does.

 

Sounds like a cool trip once that path is opened up.

As has been pointed out there other caches nearby. They just don't have the magic pixels and are not considered part of the triad. I would rather cache in the Olympics though instead of the Cascades.

[+psykokiwi]

I would be happy to drop an ammo out there (happen to have one LOL), and name it, "When I grow up I want to be an A.P.E. cache". However, even with paper work in hand; it would be hard to get published, I'm sure. Not to mention it still won't be the ape. It won't have the feeling attached to it the ape did, nor the history. I think we should all be patient on WSGA and GS as I have not given up hope they are working on SOMETHING for us. They are quite aware the emotions attached to the Triad and the Ape. I have faith they will try to put together another destination for us to visit .

Edited June 17, 2011 by psykokiwi

[+JoGPS]

Would like to ask that this thread be closed,

 

Nothing left to say here about the Tunnel Of Light Ape Cache, everything was handled the way it was suppose to happen , I spoke out of turn when suggesting that the Brazil cache container could replace the one at the tunnel.

 

I went back at my exchanges of emails between Groundspaek and my self before going to try to find the archived cache in Brazil , just what my options were , one of those options was the cache could never be moved back to the US ( forgot about that email Hee Hee ) it had to me moved once because the park wanted to be in a different area for safety and it will move at least one more time to get it in a better area of the park which will be done later this year

 

and yes it could comes up missing in Brazil. It should be archived in the same way this one, and all the other ape caches were if it goes away.

 

Remember we all adopted the Ape Caches page listing her on Geocaching.com, “” we never owned the containers “”

 

Well here we are last man standing, now come Brazil, and find the cache it not any different than the cache on the space station or the one several miles down at the natural vents , but it can be found a whole lot cheaper

 

So as Killer Bees once said " SAVE UP "

 

Joe // JoGPS

[+thecaswellfamily]

I would be happy to drop an ammo out there (happen to have one LOL), and name it, "When I grow up I want to be an A.P.E. cache". However, even with paper work in hand; it would be hard to get published, I'm sure. Not to mention it still won't be the ape. It won't have the feeling attached to it the ape did, nor the history. I think we should all be patient on WSGA and GS as I have not given up hope they are working on SOMETHING for us. They are quite aware the emotions attached to the Triad and the Ape. I have faith they will try to put together another destination for us to visit .

 

We, too, are patiently/curiously/anxiously waiting to see what GS and the WSGA come up with... and regardless we plan to do Iron Horse when the tunnel reopens.

 

The Tunnel of Light was really the only one of the triad I was all that interested in anyway... and I was REALLY looking forward to it. Even savng it for once the tunnel reopened. I figure that someday we'll hit the Original Stash plaque on our way through to see the in-laws, but I'm not particularly excited about it. If the triad still existed I might bother with the GS headquarters after I did the other two, but honestly, there are a lot of other places I would rather be than downtown in a city. Without a triad I doubt we will ever bother with the lillypad (but that's just me).

 

I do hope that GS and the WSGA come up with something, 'cause having a goal like the triad is just so fun. It'll be interesting to see, anyway.

 

- Momma Caswell

[+releasethedogs]

Yes, geocaching has changed since the last A.P.E. cache was archived, and not for the better. ####

I agree with that statement which is why this APE cache shouldn't be gone forever.

 

These days geocaching is about finding containers in uninspired locations. Park and grabs, numbers run trails, power trails. We need to have our iconic caches out there to remind us that geocaching is more than just another logbook. There was a time when every new cache took you to yet another park you didn't know about. These days every new cache takes you to a parking lot you wouldn't otherwise visit. Some cachers filter out all micros just so they have a better chance of finding something interesting.

 

What sets certain caches apart? I hear discussions all the time about visiting certain landmark caches: Mingo - the oldest active cache, The Original Stash Tribute Plaque, GC Headquarters, the APE cache, the oldest cache in any particular state, etc. Sure, if Mingo goes away there's a next oldest to fill its place, but not with the APE caches and more specifically, not what the Washington APE cache has become. It has turned into "the cache to find" because it stands for so much: It's part of the "triad" Groundspeak promotes, it gives you a unique icon, it was a memento from the early days of geocaching, the experience getting there is not to be missed, etc.

 

This APE cache is more than just the container and log and has become a destination cache for many. I wish I would have had the time to get it when I was in Washington a few years ago. I had even stopped the car just across from the tunnel, but at that time it hadn't reached the iconic status it has today. There was no "triad" then and there were other APE caches available. Now there is only one other and although it has the icon, it doesn't have nearly the following the one in Washington did.

 

The decision to archive the others was made in a different time. Times have changed. That decision should be reviewed.

 

Well this just makes the one in Brazil all the more special.

 

Anyway, if this were brought back, who's to say that the thief won't continue to steal it? There is obviously someone out there with a grudge, this is no ordinary "muggling". And with the outpouring of greif over its demise, a revived A.P.E. may well become a target for anybody who wants to mess with Groundspeak, the CO or geocachers in general. Imagine the disappointment then of people flying from all over the world to visit the cache and having to log a DNF because the thief nabbed it again.

 

in that case you handle it the same way cachers in phoenix handle it when their infamous "geotrasher" strikes, you replace the cache. Steals it again, replace it again. eventually they will get sick of it. we are many and the thief is but one.

If you're out for the experience, no matter what the experience is - you'll get it. And you'll tell the story to your mates back home over a pint. THIS is what Mission 9 is all about. Not the silly container. THE EXPERIENCE. Saying that you did the TRIAD, man! Icons and souvenirs are just icing on the cake. Groundspeak and the caching community have made this one special. We have collectively set it up as a stop on the great pilgrimage. It was irresponsible of Groundspeak to think they could take that away from us.

 

Cool, so let's collectively re-create the triad using "Iron Horse" instead. It's older, it gives you the experience of going through the tunnel. Let's face it, the triad only became THE triad because cachers started to make it into something special and we can do it again. Problem solved?

Problem not solved.

[+ScooterDawg]

Well, actually... no. Scenario 2, Option B is not plausible.

 

At the end of that hike through the tunnel, yeah - you might find an ammo can that looks like every other ammo can in the world. Or you might find a bison tube. Heck, you might just find lock-n-lock with a cracked lid and nothing inside but a soggy log book and a "Come to our Church!" flyer - doesn't matter. If you're out for the experience, no matter what the experience is - you'll get it. And you'll tell the story to your mates back home over a pint. THIS is what Mission 9 is all about. Not the silly container. THE EXPERIENCE.

 

Sorry, I should've been clearer. I was talking about the experience of the cache, while you're talking about the experience of the trip. The latter exists on its own, cache or no cache. So the trip alone doesn't warrant keeping the cache alive, as going for any other cache in the same area will give you the same experience. Put a micro in the same spot, list it as traditional cache and the trip experience will be the same, right?

 

NO. None of these things "exist on their own" whatsoever. The cache is part of the experience. The trip is part of the experience. The mud puddle you stepped in on the way is part of the experience. The beer cans you bagged and brought out with you are part of the experience. All of these things, plus ten thousand others, collectively make up THE EXPERIENCE. And in order for the experience to be authentic, it needs to be THE APE CACHE. The PINNACLE of the geocaching experience. Give it a new lid. Give it a new container. Move it 30 feet north. Install a plaque. Fill it with swag, or empty it out. Paint it periwinkle, for all I care. Do whatever to it - as long as it is still called GC1169, as long as it is still THE APE CACHE EXPERIENCE, we will be happy. We will be able to reach that pinnacle. THAT is what matters here.

[+ScooterDawg]

Well, actually... no. Scenario 2, Option B is not plausible.

 

At the end of that hike through the tunnel, yeah - you might find an ammo can that looks like every other ammo can in the world. Or you might find a bison tube. Heck, you might just find lock-n-lock with a cracked lid and nothing inside but a soggy log book and a "Come to our Church!" flyer - doesn't matter. If you're out for the experience, no matter what the experience is - you'll get it. And you'll tell the story to your mates back home over a pint. THIS is what Mission 9 is all about. Not the silly container. THE EXPERIENCE. Saying that you did the TRIAD, man! Icons and souvenirs are just icing on the cake. Groundspeak and the caching community have made this one special. We have collectively set it up as a stop on the great pilgrimage. It was irresponsible of Groundspeak to think they could take that away from us.

 

I wonder how many people might pause and reflect on this occurrence when it comes time to renew that premium membership?

 

So make GC79 the new piece of the trifecta. Similar experience, similar area, people still get their "pilgrimage" and the APE cache policy stays the same.

 

There are several caches in the area that might be proposed as a new "leg" of the triad (or quad, or whatever it becomes). The problem is that, while all of them are great caches, none of them are SPECIAL in the way GC1169 was.

[+briansnat]

Yes, geocaching has changed since the last A.P.E. cache was archived, and not for the better. ####

I agree with that statement which is why this APE cache shouldn't be gone forever.

 

These days geocaching is about finding containers in uninspired locations. Park and grabs, numbers run trails, power trails. We need to have our iconic caches out there to remind us that geocaching is more than just another logbook. There was a time when every new cache took you to yet another park you didn't know about. These days every new cache takes you to a parking lot you wouldn't otherwise visit. Some cachers filter out all micros just so they have a better chance of finding something interesting.

 

What sets certain caches apart? I hear discussions all the time about visiting certain landmark caches: Mingo - the oldest active cache, The Original Stash Tribute Plaque, GC Headquarters, the APE cache, the oldest cache in any particular state, etc. Sure, if Mingo goes away there's a next oldest to fill its place, but not with the APE caches and more specifically, not what the Washington APE cache has become. It has turned into "the cache to find" because it stands for so much: It's part of the "triad" Groundspeak promotes, it gives you a unique icon, it was a memento from the early days of geocaching, the experience getting there is not to be missed, etc.

 

This APE cache is more than just the container and log and has become a destination cache for many. I wish I would have had the time to get it when I was in Washington a few years ago. I had even stopped the car just across from the tunnel, but at that time it hadn't reached the iconic status it has today. There was no "triad" then and there were other APE caches available. Now there is only one other and although it has the icon, it doesn't have nearly the following the one in Washington did.

 

The decision to archive the others was made in a different time. Times have changed. That decision should be reviewed.

 

Well this just makes the one in Brazil all the more special.

 

Anyway, if this were brought back, who's to say that the thief won't continue to steal it? There is obviously someone out there with a grudge, this is no ordinary "muggling". And with the outpouring of greif over its demise, a revived A.P.E. may well become a target for anybody who wants to mess with Groundspeak, the CO or geocachers in general. Imagine the disappointment then of people flying from all over the world to visit the cache and having to log a DNF because the thief nabbed it again.

 

in that case you handle it the same way cachers in phoenix handle it when their infamous "geotrasher" strikes, you replace the cache. Steals it again, replace it again. eventually they will get sick of it. we are many and the thief is but one.

 

 

Unfortunately A.P.E. sized ammo boxes are not easy to come by or cheap when you do find them.

Edited June 18, 2011 by briansnat

[+Kris32]

When we left in our rented RV to make the trip up to WA, this cache was still active. Then found out at GC HQ yesterday, that it had been archived! It was a big bummer. I hope bad karma gets heaped upon the person who took the cache.

[+cheech gang]

I wonder how many people might pause and reflect on this occurrence when it comes time to renew that premium membership?

 

zero

[+dfx]

NO. None of these things "exist on their own" whatsoever. The cache is part of the experience. The trip is part of the experience. The mud puddle you stepped in on the way is part of the experience. The beer cans you bagged and brought out with you are part of the experience. All of these things, plus ten thousand others, collectively make up THE EXPERIENCE. And in order for the experience to be authentic, it needs to be THE APE CACHE. The PINNACLE of the geocaching experience. Give it a new lid. Give it a new container. Move it 30 feet north. Install a plaque. Fill it with swag, or empty it out. Paint it periwinkle, for all I care. Do whatever to it - as long as it is still called GC1169, as long as it is still THE APE CACHE EXPERIENCE, we will be happy. We will be able to reach that pinnacle. THAT is what matters here.

 

So what is it that makes the APE cache the APE cache? If it's not the location, not the container, not the contents, what is it? Is it the GC number? The name? Or is it, after all, the icon?

[+Tequila]

 

 

So what is it that makes the APE cache the APE cache? If it's not the location, not the container, not the contents, what is it? Is it the GC number? The name? Or is it, after all, the icon?

 

+1

 

276 comments boiled down to 2 words: The icon.

 

.

[+CdAGeoGeeks]

No, not the icon alone; it's the total sum of everything. The trip, the location, the experience, the expectations, the effort, and the icon. Breaking the entirety down to "just the icon" downplays how everyone feels about it.

[+B+L]

So what is it that makes the APE cache the APE cache? If it's not the location, not the container, not the contents, what is it? Is it the GC number? The name? Or is it, after all, the icon?

276 comments boiled down to 2 words: The icon.

According to Groundspeak, it was the container.

[4wheelin_fool]

So what is it that makes the APE cache the APE cache? If it's not the location, not the container, not the contents, what is it? Is it the GC number? The name? Or is it, after all, the icon?

276 comments boiled down to 2 words: The icon.

According to Groundspeak, it was the container.

 

It's more than the container. This cache was overpromoted with a bit of inflated hype, being a 10 year commercial about a bad movie. In 2004 it was reported that they had a unused spare. Perhaps it could be mounted on a 2001 inch granite pedestal to symbolize the year that the cache was placed, encased in a glass cube and guarded with a pen full of aggresive rhesus monkeys with a spotlight and an information kiosk nearby. At that point it may be considered the pinnacle of the geocache icon experience. But then again, that may conflict with a rumored agreement with FOX to allow the promotion to fade away on it's own. Go to Brazil if you really want to earn the hype badge.

[jholly]

Unfortunately A.P.E. sized ammo boxes are not easy to come by or cheap when you do find them.

here

and here

more here

 

And the list is pretty long on google. Roughly $20 is not very expensive. Of course none of these come with the special ape icon on the lid or cache listing.

[+JJG10101]

Would like to ask that this thread be closed,

 

Nothing left to say here about the Tunnel Of Light Ape Cache...

 

Really? I have the opposite view: leave this thread open for people to "vent." When TPTB come up with something, I'm sure people will have opinions one way or the other.

[+B+L]

According to Groundspeak, it was the container.

It's more than the container. This cache was overpromoted with a bit of inflated hype, being a 10 year commercial about a bad movie. In 2004 it was reported that they had a unused spare. Perhaps it could be mounted on a 2001 inch granite pedestal to symbolize the year that the cache was placed, encased in a glass cube and guarded with a pen full of aggresive rhesus monkeys with a spotlight and an information kiosk nearby. At that point it may be considered the pinnacle of the geocache icon experience. But then again, that may conflict with a rumored agreement with FOX to allow the promotion to fade away on it's own. Go to Brazil if you really want to earn the hype badge.

I was being sarcastic, but the stated reason for the archival actually was the the loss of the container. No one stole the icon.

 

I'm sure we'd enjoy a trip to Brazil, but we already have the icon, so we have no need to go there specifically to hunt for pixels. We got the icon because we hiked to Annette Lake. As we were returning from the lake, we decided to make the minor detour necessary to reach this cache because we thought it might not be there forever.

Edited June 18, 2011 by B+L

[Clan Riffster]

Unfortunately A.P.E. sized ammo boxes are not easy to come by or cheap when you do find them.

I've got three sitting beside my house you are welcome to. (No, I won't mail them) The one in the back of my cop car, and the one in my garage are off limits though. I think the most I paid for any of them was $20. Gotta love gun shows and flea markets!

 

So what is it that makes the APE cache the APE cache?

Ooh! Ooh! Mr Cotter! Mr Cotter! Pick me! Pick me!

OK, enough with the cheesy sitcoms.

If what I've read in this thread is any indication, the thing that makes Mission 9 special is the experience as a whole. You get to hike in a beautiful spot. You get to find a jumbo ammo can. You get the Ape icon. You get the Ape souvenir. You get 1/3 of the Trifecta which Groundspeak promoted as the pinnacle of the geocaching experience.

 

Breaking the entirety down to "just the icon" downplays how everyone feels about it.

If they can dismiss your feelings on the matter as being unimportant, it makes it easier for them to treat the goal as unimportant. That kind of attitude is fairly common in situations where one group opposes another. Diminish your opponent in the eyes of your soldiers and it's easier to pretend they are less than human, making any act you commit upon them more palatable. Pretty sure Sun Tzu was the first person to elaborate on that strategy. While it's a great strategy for global war, ("My fellow countrymen, we must hate the __________ (<~~ Insert name) for they are _______ (<~~ Insert derogitory term)!") it's kinda crappy to use against your fellow hobbyists.

 

Go to Brazil if you really want to earn the hype badge.

I reckon that's the only way left to get the Ape icon.

Any suggestions on how to achieve the Trifecta?

[+weathernowcast]

What I really miss:

 

Looking in my e-mail inbox and reading about someone's journey from the other side of the continent or the world, describing how they enjoyed the hike up to the APE cache (the same trip I took and the same hike I enjoyed under a grey northwestern sky with drizzle no my brow celebrating life and my 40th birthday present from my wife).

 

That is what I really miss today....no more "....Found Mission 9" logs in my inbox.

[+neoconnut]

Just a thought, why not make it a virtual cache? Yeah it won't be the same as the original APE cache, but there will be nothing to muggle, and it won't reward the anticachers. the area it is at is easily identifiable and could easily be verified with a picture at GZ. There is no way any anticacher could clear out GZ with out heavy equipment.

 

As for the anticachers, what idiots. The APE cache is about the most environmentally friendly cache as it gets. It requires no bushwacking, and is already on a popular hiking/biking trail. Also cachers are one of the most environmentally friendly groups of people out there, at least from my observations.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Unfortunately A.P.E. sized ammo boxes are not easy to come by or cheap when you do find them.

 

Is this an APE size can?

[+briansnat]

Unfortunately A.P.E. sized ammo boxes are not easy to come by or cheap when you do find them.

here

and here

more here

 

And the list is pretty long on google. Roughly $20 is not very expensive. Of course none of these come with the special ape icon on the lid or cache listing.

 

The first one I looked at was $19 for the ammo box and $28 to ship (their cheapest method). If the thief is determined enough it can get quite expensive. If a new one has to be ordered each time it goes missing there could be no cache there for weeks at a time. That will make for a lot of disappointed people who came a long way to log a DNF. Or some local would have to store a bunch of them ready to go the minute it goes missing. Not exactly cheap or convenient.

[+briansnat]

Just a thought, why not make it a virtual cache? Yeah it won't be the same as the original APE cache, but there will be nothing to muggle, and it won't reward the anticachers. the area it is at is easily identifiable and could easily be verified with a picture at GZ. There is no way any anticacher could clear out GZ with out heavy equipment.

 

As for the anticachers, what idiots. The APE cache is about the most environmentally friendly cache as it gets. It requires no bushwacking, and is already on a popular hiking/biking trail. Also cachers are one of the most environmentally friendly groups of people out there, at least from my observations.

 

Why not just make it a micro and move it into the city where it can be quickly replaced?

 

One more person who mentioned that the theft is the work of anti-geocachers. Is there information out there about this angle that I'm not aware of?

[+releasethedogs]

Yes, geocaching has changed since the last A.P.E. cache was archived, and not for the better. ####

I agree with that statement which is why this APE cache shouldn't be gone forever.

 

These days geocaching is about finding containers in uninspired locations. Park and grabs, numbers run trails, power trails. We need to have our iconic caches out there to remind us that geocaching is more than just another logbook. There was a time when every new cache took you to yet another park you didn't know about. These days every new cache takes you to a parking lot you wouldn't otherwise visit. Some cachers filter out all micros just so they have a better chance of finding something interesting.

 

What sets certain caches apart? I hear discussions all the time about visiting certain landmark caches: Mingo - the oldest active cache, The Original Stash Tribute Plaque, GC Headquarters, the APE cache, the oldest cache in any particular state, etc. Sure, if Mingo goes away there's a next oldest to fill its place, but not with the APE caches and more specifically, not what the Washington APE cache has become. It has turned into "the cache to find" because it stands for so much: It's part of the "triad" Groundspeak promotes, it gives you a unique icon, it was a memento from the early days of geocaching, the experience getting there is not to be missed, etc.

 

This APE cache is more than just the container and log and has become a destination cache for many. I wish I would have had the time to get it when I was in Washington a few years ago. I had even stopped the car just across from the tunnel, but at that time it hadn't reached the iconic status it has today. There was no "triad" then and there were other APE caches available. Now there is only one other and although it has the icon, it doesn't have nearly the following the one in Washington did.

 

The decision to archive the others was made in a different time. Times have changed. That decision should be reviewed.

 

Well this just makes the one in Brazil all the more special.

 

Anyway, if this were brought back, who's to say that the thief won't continue to steal it? There is obviously someone out there with a grudge, this is no ordinary "muggling". And with the outpouring of greif over its demise, a revived A.P.E. may well become a target for anybody who wants to mess with Groundspeak, the CO or geocachers in general. Imagine the disappointment then of people flying from all over the world to visit the cache and having to log a DNF because the thief nabbed it again.

 

in that case you handle it the same way cachers in phoenix handle it when their infamous "geotrasher" strikes, you replace the cache. Steals it again, replace it again. eventually they will get sick of it. we are many and the thief is but one.

 

 

Unfortunately A.P.E. sized ammo boxes are not easy to come by or cheap when you do find them.

 

fortunately Groundspeak has a spare one.

fortunately this thread is full of people willing to buy and ship one to Groundspeak if they were willing to unarchive.

 

I mean set up a paypal account to donate money for a new ammo can.... This is like Internet 101.

 

All Groundspeak has to do if the "special" paint job is so important is to take a photo of the ape cache they have in HQ and make a freakin' stencil and spray paint the new can. I did this when I was 14, I am sure they could figure out how it is done as well. the whole "the container is special because it has a special paint job" excuse is not only ridiculous but it is patronizing. I mean if there is another excuse or even a reason then do tell, other wise have a volunteer send you an ammo can, take 32 minutes to make a stencil, send miss jenn (or another lacky) to walmart with 5.00 and buy some spray paint. And then reinstall the cache (with a barbell welded to it, lol). Serious, get a 50 or 100 pound weight and weld it to the can. have every one at the going ape event collectively as a group (heavy things are better lifted with a group) haul it up the mountain and replace it.

 

This whole mess could have been solved within half a day with every one being happy. Shheez

Edited June 18, 2011 by releasethedogs

[I!]

What a load of fuss over an icon. I bet 90% of people that want the cache returned would not settle for a similarly-sized Traditional in the same location. Missing the point of geocaching? I think so.

[+uxorious]

What a load of fuss over an icon. I bet 90% of people that want the cache returned would not settle for a similarly-sized Traditional in the same location. Missing the point of geocaching? I think so.

Now that is an elitist attitude. The point of Geocaching is not the same for everyone. For some it is the icons, and nothing wrong with that. For some it is the numbers and for some it is long hikes. The point of Geocaching is different for everyone who plays it.

[I!]

What a load of fuss over an icon. I bet 90% of people that want the cache returned would not settle for a similarly-sized Traditional in the same location. Missing the point of geocaching? I think so.

Now that is an elitist attitude. The point of Geocaching is not the same for everyone. For some it is the icons, and nothing wrong with that. For some it is the numbers and for some it is long hikes. The point of Geocaching is different for everyone who plays it.

You can pretend that geocaching(.com) is a free-for-all without any point, or purpose, or philosophy behind it, if that makes you feel better. Inclusivity's all the rage nowadays, I hear.

[+Scubasonic]

I just saw the Ape cache container for sale on EBay the bids are up to 1,200

Edited June 18, 2011 by Scubasonic

[4wheelin_fool]

I just saw the Ape cache container for sale on EBay the bids are up to 1,200

 

I heard that the bounty for identifying the thief, or for anyone who retains possession of the box is a bit more than that.

Edited June 18, 2011 by 4wheelin_fool

[+klien]

with the talk of virts coming back

maybe GC could come up with a historic type Virt with its own icon that only they can place for historic locations of caches that have changed the sport..

or create some sort of tri-ad virt for the three locations since they did use it to create interest in the PNW caching

Edited June 18, 2011 by klien

[+addisonbr]

If the thief is determined enough it can get quite expensive. If a new one has to be ordered each time it goes missing there could be no cache there for weeks at a time.

I would happily pre-pay for the sponsorship of one container (including shipping), right now.

 

I wouldn't do this for very many caches, if any. But given my experience at the APE cache - one of the very few caches I've been lucky enough to find with both my brother and my dad, and this specific listing is actually the reason the three of us got into geocaching. (My brother read an article about the APE promotion when they were first introduced, and the Washington cache was the closest to him at the time. He introduced the other two of us to the game.) I sprained my ankle pretty badly hours before my flight, and so my brother carried my crutches strapped to his back while we ascended and descended. A couple of cachers who passed us on the trail contacted me after they saw my log and sent us personal geocoins through the mail as a gesture of geocaching spirit; we've exchanged emails since to compare pointers for other geo-trips.

 

APE is watched by 322 people. Iron Horse is watched by 14. The watchers aren't getting special icons for having their inboxes choked with hundreds of alerts every year. I suspect they really enjoy reading the memorable logs that people have been leaving.

 

If cost is a factor, I'd shoot off $50 the day before yesterday to anyone willing to shoulder some of the more labor-intensive aspects of maintenance (schlepping the container, painting it, etc. - things that sadly, I cannot help with from the East Coast). But financially? I'd throw in, in a heartbeat.

[+uxorious]

What a load of fuss over an icon. I bet 90% of people that want the cache returned would not settle for a similarly-sized Traditional in the same location. Missing the point of geocaching? I think so.

Now that is an elitist attitude. The point of Geocaching is not the same for everyone. For some it is the icons, and nothing wrong with that. For some it is the numbers and for some it is long hikes. The point of Geocaching is different for everyone who plays it.

You can pretend that geocaching(.com) is a free-for-all without any point, or purpose, or philosophy behind it, if that makes you feel better. Inclusivity's all the rage nowadays, I hear.

 

And you can pretend that Geocaching is only what you perceive it to be. If that makes you feel better. I just know there are a lot of Geocachers that are in the game for many different reasons. I don't expect everyone to cache like I do.

[+B+L]

What a load of fuss over an icon. I bet 90% of people that want the cache returned would not settle for a similarly-sized Traditional in the same location. Missing the point of geocaching? I think so.

I bet most of the people that do not want the cache returned have not found it and never had any intention of finding it, yet they still feel compelled to make a fuss about it here anyway. I wonder why that could be?

[mresoteric]

Any suggestions on how to achieve the Trifecta?

 

You don't. Some things in life have a limited window of opportunity. Don't put off until tomorrow what you really want to do today.

Edited June 19, 2011 by mresoteric

[+geodarts]

Any suggestions on how to achieve the Trifecta?

 

Jeremy put it this way (in response to my Triad Cache feedback forum topic:

 

I would say that the blog post [describing the triad as one of the crowning achievements of caching] was meant to be over the top. Officially it was not a "crowning achievement" since it would have to be an achievement first - which it is not.

 

People want the monkey icon, if you want to distill the emotion down to one thing. It wasn't the triad. . . its just a by-product of the monkey icon. And the monkey icon is popular because it is rare.

 

We did acknowledge that many visitors to the pacific northwest choose the three locations (original cache plaque, our HQ and the Project APE cache) to go to on their visit, especially the Project APE cache since it is one of the few places you can get that particular icon. . . . The fact that the caches slowly disappeared because they were removed/stolen/etc. created the scarcity that drove people to find the cache, not the cache itself. Sure, it was a big container but there are far more interesting geocaches you could go to then and can go to today.

 

I would disagree with Jeremy about whether the APE cache was interesting. The location of Mission 9, walking through the tunnel, and the adventure of getting there made it a unique experience. But I completed all three locations before I heard about the Triad and it was hard to imagine a visit to HQ as an achievement - even if they are nice folks.

 

If there is nothing to achieve and no official triad, then define it any way you want. I have my own personal triads. To me finding Rainbow Hydrothermal Vents might be a more significant achievement, but that is not something I am likely to do.

Edited June 19, 2011 by mulvaney