weathernowcast

My condolences for your loss. Brian

Hope you get your efforts re-instated before the local geocaching event. 68 geocaches archived today. Plenty of room for new goecaches for the new event. I hope people have fun http://coord.info/GC5YMAH.

thanks

I am down to six non-compliant geocaches. Upon removing the last geocaches I am now looking at each log and posting my favorites. this is one of them: "perhaps the best log: "Found on my way to Glory this morning. The terrain is brutal but beautiful. The tree near GZ is an incredible demonstration of nature taking whatever course needed to survive. Thanks for bringing me to this incredible spot" lego-kings"

Picked up another one of my caches today. That is over two dozen of mine archived. http://coord.info/GC20HHT Feeling very down.

I developed a personal nomenclature to help me keep track of geocaches that I must remove. Geocaches of mine in New Jersey that will remain that I have reviewed are marked with a ":-)" in their name. Geocaches of mine that I must pick up according to the text in the policy are now marked with an "x-" in their name. All my caches with an "x-" will be archived but should have one LTF log.

Please do not make your comments directly to the State. Contact the people who are negotiating with the State. You can visit SJGeocaching.org, and make suggestions in the forums. Not sure what Central Jersey has going on as far as suggestions. (I had a witty and snide comment about the dubious value of making suggestions via another NJ caching club's site, but I think I'll just leave it up to the readers' imagination.) I don't see anything going on in the forums there regarding this. Brian,the thread is in the "NJ caching partnership" forum. If you're a full member you can browse that forum. I'll email you a link to the thread and a link to account validation if you're not already a full member so you can view and comment accordingly. I am in the sjgeocaching.org forum but I can not find the "NJ caching partnership" forum.

Probably because it's a good idea. Great idea!

Very sad about this.

I agree with NikCap 100%. Now if only I could solve his puzzle caches 100% of the time.

I was told the same thing. Others, including those in the know, have confirmed the same thing on the Facebook Group page "Changes in Latitude."

I have asked Keystone to close this thread as it has served its purpose by raising awareness to the topic I presented.

This is like saying if a bully threatens to hit you, and you back down instead of getting your nose broken, then it's too late to complain about the bully threatening you. Furthermore, if the CO had acted as you suggest, GS for sure wouldn't get involved because it's a land manager saying the cache isn't allowed. "Does this mean you don't want caches in your park anymore?" "No, it doesn't." End of story. Instead, the CO graciously acted as if the land manager's request was reasonable, since, in isolation, it is. Now he (and others) are asking in general whether this is behavior that should be tolerated by the community, perhaps even prevented by GS. Not only is that the gentlemanly way to approach it, it also puts the CO in a neutral position because he no longer has a cache to defend. In contrast, you're suggesting he should have gotten into a pissing match since then GS would have had to step in to break it up. I like his approach better, and I'd hate to see him penalized for taking it. Thank you.

Thank you for posting this. This is the local club policy that had impacted my previously approved KVSP geocaches, but I had not seen it in print, Just an update which I will post here: As the original request to archive my caches was for proximity issues with the new geotrail that NNJC and KVSP had arranged following the above club policy. I have sent the following requests to NNJC and KVSP: OK-- so now that the new caches are active. I ask you consider if any of the following can remain at KSVP and a similar note to NNJC VP. Specifically: XMas presents for BrianSnat---it seems the reviewers may allow my cache to be reactivated even if it is only 475 feet from the new cache. Specifically, Keystone and OReviewer indicated this was a possibility with KVSP support. The XMAS present for Klizich is 0.3 miles from the nearest cache--can I keep it? If you wish, I could lower it to an easier location. XMAS presents for Sue&Barry is a puzzle cache with a chirp--consequently the start of the puzzle cache does not need to be impacted by proximity issues with the near your building and the final does not conflict with any of the new caches. The XMAS Treequest will be removed on Sunday. Depending on the other questions I look to remove the caches next Sunday. If you have any other suggestions that may facilitate closure of this mess-let me know. Thanks weathernowcast ---------- My only other comment is: Regarding boycotts of state parks. I personally do not think that will be perceived as constructive or allow us to reach closure on this topic. I define closure as a change to club policy. The genesis for club supported archive requests is clear in the post above.

I wonder how they thought those find logs would be received? In their minds were they blessing the caches with their finds as a kind of send off? Kind of like an "Atta Boy." Then the hider would be appeased because the cache was found by giants among men. Unfortunately, this is how I read it. "I really like your hide here. I'm going to have to steal it. Go ahead and archive, but before you do let me make sure I get my smiley." It seems that the persons in charge have decided to promote geocaching in spite of geocachers. another one: http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC39RKV_mst3k-presents-final-justice A Mystery Science Theater Cache.

Harry which one was that.

Caches (not mine) found by NNJC Board members then archived. http://coord.info/GC38FF8 http://coord.info/GC1ZT3K

FYI In case you missed it. It is a nice public outreach video about geocaching in central New Jersey. However, I draw your attention to 1:08 - 1:35 in the video in this link. That is the transparency that is most helpful to understand what is going on here. It may be subtle, but the proposed future of geocaching in New Jersey is being defined in those 27 seconds. http://franklinreporter.com/2013/10/28/high-tech-scavenger-hunt-launched-griggstown-grassland-preserve/

As the originator of this thread I must say that I agree with your post. It is the land manager's responsibility to impliment the policies of the park. When I was contacted by KVSP directly, I archived the caches. The reason for my original post aligns with your conclusion. I was creating visibility to the fact that a local geocaching club was involved in the decision process as to which geocaches to archive in the park. I had no idea this club, which I had understood represented the local caching community, had become involved in such a decision process. So I posted the thread and we have had this informative and I think helpful discussion here.

I was allowed to post the following on the NNJC FB page. I post this here for those that are not members. I wish to thank those in this forum for your support. ------------------------------------ Hello! Is this mic on? I am here to begin reconciliation. A significant amount of angst has been created in my heart, in NNJC members, amongst the NNJC board, the lives of KVSP land managers, the New Jersey State Park leadership and the worldwide geocaching community since I first received the original request to consider archiving some of my geocaches in KVSP (NJ) in October. My goal when I created the original Groundspeak post was transparency. That was all. I am using this forum to begin some reconciliation in the greater New Jersey geocaching community at this time. I reached out to the NNJC President and the following was received by him as good suggestions. I place the suggestions here for the consideration of other geocaching clubs. I suggested transparency. With the understanding that land managers are our friends, for they allow geocaching in the parks they manage, and the assumption that these land managers may contact NNJC in the future for a variety of requests. In the future, if NNJC is contacted by a state park to archive geocaches, I suggested that NNJC ensure transparency of the nature of the request to the larger local geocaching community. As NNJC represents the geocaching community, NNJC representatives should first ask the land manager "is archiving of an existing geocache necessary." Many alternatives to archiving exist. As this is not a local issue alone, I have promised to send NNJC the extremely helpful suggestions that were made by Keystone and OReviewer as to how they have been able to develop a method to keep existing geocaches in place and allow the placement of geocaches in state parks elsewhere. In the event that these caches are to be archived, I suggested to NNJC that they consider lobbying the land managers to maintain existing caches as they are. This allows New Jersey geocachers an opportunity to maintain the traditional individual ownership model. In the event that existing geocaches are to be replaced for some reason, such as a State park initiated geotrail, I strongly suggested that the local geocachers with caches already in the park be contacted to create the potential geotrail for the park. Additionally, a transparent opportunity should be created for other local geocachers to volunteer to participate in the placement of new geocaches in these parks. In addition, to avoid ill feelings, I suggested NNJC ensure they are outwardly transparent to the entire local geocaching community when they are supporting any archival requests. As geocaching is an ever changing sport, I also recommended transparency as it relates NNJC lobbying activities with their membership. If NNJC is aware of potential changes in state policy regarding geocaching policies, the NNJC community should be consulted to determine NNJC's official position. As an organization, NNJC represents hundreds of geocachers in the northern New Jersey geocaching community. Consequently, NNJC is a steward of the geocaching game in this community. As a steward, comes trust. With trust comes accountability. Accountability is gained through transparency of actions. Play nice. It's our game. We make the rules together. Thank you for the opportunity to post in this forum.

The first thing stated by Rangr Dave is that this is just a game. But after this, they go on to say how important it is to archive someone elses cache so that new caches can be placed that are "educational" in some way. They also state that quality needs to rein over quantity. Is there a contradiction in this one paragraph? Doesn't sound like Rangr Dave thinks this a game at all... I admit that i'm all for quality over quantity myself but that doesn't mean i have the right to bully others into thinking and caching the way i choose. This just flat out stinks! Ranger Dave is speaking about quality over quantity? Really? Was that demonstrated in griggstown? I wonder what the power circle in this group considers quality. Thirty some odd traditionals that are all the same size/container/hide? Follow it up with one of the group's most prolific members insisting that everyone give these caches favorite points....and I suppose you have what may appear to be quality hidden behind the "suggested" favorite points. I suppose thirty some odd cookie cutter hides is WAY higher quality than a chirp cache and a large mortar ammo can. Just like others have said....it's numbers, that's it. What a shame. First the geo trail in central Jersey, followed by this debacle in north Jersey. I suppose south Jersey should get ready for this as well.... In fact, I should probably go ahead and start archiving my caches now.....the six wherigos and thirty some puzzles I have in SJ stand no chance against a "quality" geo trail of "educational" traditionals. If you can maintain your caches and wish to keep them. Please don't archive them because of this thread. That would defeat the entire purpose of why I raised the issue.

I think that is the topic. Unless I completely misread the OP. Though, I get what you are saying. I think this would be a perfectly relavent thread, if the name of the orginazation in question, along with geological references, were redacted, as indicated above. As cooler heads have mentioned, we, as a global community, should be discussing the behaviors involved, rather than the individuals involved. Those behaviors were, in my opinion, intolerable. The behavior is indeed the issue here. I don't know the name of the organization and know none of those involved but its the " its my ball and I'm going to go home and take it with me " approach....I think the existing caches should remain, period. I can at least understand TPTB position that in doing so we may win the moral high ground but lose everything else ( the park for geocaching ).....I'm guessing, though, in a case of hardball that land manager is going to want caches in that park. You're not going to lose the park for Geocaching when the land manager is a 3,300 find Geocacher. Trust me on that one. I don't think she technically would be the considered land manager. I'd reserve that title for the park superintendent or the NJ DEP, not a park employee. If the superintendent or the DEP decided no geocaches tomorrow, there is little that this 3,300 find geocacher could do about it. Rangr Dave posted a note for XMas Presents for Sue&Barry (Unknown Cache) at 11/26/2013 Log Date: 11/26/2013 First off lets remember that this is indeed a game, one with over 12,000 game pieces throughout this state alone. If a few have to be archived so that others may be placed to educate a cacher on the historical, environmental, or geological significance of an area so be it. I am all for quality over quantity. Secondly, the "someone" that you speak of is one of the land managers for this park. The request is being made so that (as stated in the request) an official interpretive geo-trail can be installed in the park. The cache that is requested to be archived is within .1 mile of an area that has great historical significance to the park. What greater way to bring someone there and educate them than through a cache? On a personal note, this archive request is being made by someone that has made great contributions to the sport of geocaching, through hours of outreach, township meetings, planning and holding events, and personally conducting monthly introduction to geocaching classes where she has introduced both individuals and families to caching. So understand that this archive request was made with the pure intent of creating a greater caching experience for all.

I don't need a personal apology. And I really don't need to have the caches reactivated as they may have already been picked up by friends. I think we should just place nice, now and in the future, and respect each other as geocachers. Life is too short to be mean to each other.

Agree

Very creative. Very nice. Very friendly.