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profiteering through generosity


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Here is a question I would like to pose to the geocoining community regarding the selling of coins. It has come to my attention that recently, several coins have come up for sale in other locations (no names mentioned) that were annonymously gifted. I am not talking about coins that were given with the intent of being sold with the donor's permission for some charitable purpose, but rather specifically the selling of mystery coins that were gifted annonymously. It seems to me that it would be a real slap in the face for those generous people to then see those coins being sold for a healthy profit by the person who received them. Having been the recipients of some mystery coins in the past, and really appreciating the unique generosity of those gifts, I see that this practice threatens the very future of all mystery geocoins. I would hate to see the greed of a few irresponsible individuals turn off the many generous gifters here and thus overall hurt the entire geocoining community. I sure would like for others to weigh in on this issue with how they feel about the situation since it has the potential to impact everyone here. As for myself, I hold in highest regard the extreme generosity of those who give such gifts out of the kindness of their hearts and would never sell a gifted mystery coin. Please let me know what you as coiners think of this practice and whether or not is is ethical. Mystery coin givers, it would also be wonderfull to know how you feel about this also.

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I will always covet the mystery coins that have been given to me anonymously. I am equally fond of personal coins that have been gifted by their owners. Heck, even mission coins with no connection to the sender have a special place in my collection, simply because the sender thought it would be something that I would like.

 

I wouldn't think of selling or trading any of these unless I was in dire financial need. Even then, I think I would contact the sender to get their blessing.

 

Mystery coins and personal coins that I have purchased or traded for are another story, however. I feel that if the coin was not a gift, the owner really has no cause to be upset if it ends up on eBay. Even mystery coins. I have four mystery coins -- three were gifted, but one was acquired in a trade. The one I traded for just doesn't hold as much meaning to me as the gifted ones.

 

I have had some of my own coins appear on eBay, and it hasn't upset me. It only upsets me when people list it as *HTF/SOLD OUT* when I still have a 100 or so left in my webstore! :)

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I myself, consider it a slap in the face, not only to the mystery coiner but to all recipients as well. If I remember correctly the particular mystery coin specifically requests that it is not to be sold. This isn't a trade or a regift but a very public sale in a place that many coiners keep an eye on. How would anyone feel to see a gift they had given being sold in such a manner. I also would hope that no coin collectors would make such a purchase. The one I received came at a rough time for me and represents great generosity and goodness and from reading other forum posts regarding mystery coins, they often are received at times when the recipient could most use the lift a gift like this can bring. If I were to buy it, it would just be a coin. I treasure mine and will never part with it.

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I think for myself: mystery coins are coins who are given with a big heart. :)

 

I share those coins but if i decide not to want them anymore i will given the coins to a other.

 

I will never sell or trade these coins, just give them to a other coiner just as the coins were gifted to me..

 

 

When i give a coin to somebody else, they may do what they want to do with it.

 

Sell, trade, give away, i don't care because it are there coins and not mine anymore.

 

i have give them with love and they may do with it with love what they want. :)

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Devils advocate here...

 

It is either a gift or not. I understand frustration but it sounds like some are viewing them as gifts with strings attached.

 

What if someone gives you a gift that isnt quite your taste? Do you re-gift or maybe return it to buy something you like.

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This kind of debate has shown up before and there are differing opinions.

 

I can only assume you mean the sale of these coins on ebay. Keep in mind a couple of things although these do not apply to every situation; 1. Mystery coin givers have at times given coins to individuals and told them to go ahead and sell the coin (so sometimes it's hard to know if that is the case although the seller usually mentions it in the auction). 2. I've seen the maker/designer of mystery coins sell the coins themselves. 3. Some people email for permission to sell the coins. So sometimes it's not always easy to know exactly what's going on behind the scenes.

 

However on the other side of things, there are a number of people who just don't care and it's just a money making opportunity. There have been mystery coins, coins requested as "do not sell", etc. all sold regardless of the wishes of the designer/minter. The one arguement I have seen alot here regarding this practice is the "it was given, therefore it's mine to do what I want with".

 

Coinfusion was never mean to be sold, some mystery coins were not suppose to be sold, some personals were not mean to be sold yet people still do it. This practice used to really bother me also but it really isn't worth the effort of getting upset over to be honest. I am of the current mind that I will ask someone once to remove an auction (for something like the Tatanka or Raiders of the Lost Cache) and most of the time I have had pretty good luck with it and others, I've been ignored. In the end I just make a mental note and I know others do also and those people aren't on the end of future generosity.

 

This kind of behavior has changed those who used to give alot, sad but true. I have never understood why someone just can't leave the mystery coin in a cache for someone else to have or trade it away for coins that could be sold but hey, that's just me.

 

The terms; ethical, honesty, respect, etc. seem to have a wide range of meanings :)

 

The moral of the story (which took me a long time to learn); don't give or leave a coin, gift, swag or otherwise unless you are prepared to see it used in every manner possible like it or not :)

 

Happy Easter :huh:

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Well, I am not really into selling coins and rather attached to the ones that were given to me (often chosen with care), but I also do believe that the story has two sides.

I remember the note, for instance, that accompanied the Dutch Lion I was given. It clearly stated I could do wathever I wanted to do with it. Selling is one of those options.

I guess if you own a coin you can do whatever you want with it ( mystery or not). If I give somebody a coin I hope they will add them to their collection, because I hope they like it but I can be wrong too. I don't mind if people sell coins I gave them. I gave them, the coins are theirs.

 

 

(and don't go sending me emails about the Dutch Lion, I am not selling)

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There are some coins I can think of which, if sold, could have repurcussions for the vendor. Landsharkz received permission to use the coat of arms of the Candian Armed Forces on their CF coins on the stipulation that it only be sold to members of armed forces, current or retired. I have seen a bunch of them on eBay lately, with no mention of this requirement in the description.

 

The Green Bay Packers coin by ~2sherlocks also had a similar agreement. The Packers granted use of their logo with the stipulation that the coin never be sold for a profit.

 

Both of these entities could cause a lot of trouble for the vendor/designer if they chose to.

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As a newbie, here is my humble opinion.

 

I consider intent as a major part of this. I recently picked up a coin via a trade that the seller sold to me at pretty much original cost. This coin is selling for at least double and sometimes triple on ebay. In my mind if I turned around and sold this one, I would end up essentially using the generosity of another for profit.

 

I told the seller I had been looking for this one and wanted it for my collection. If I were to turn around and sell it, shame on me and I would expect this trader to ignore me in the future.

 

I haven't received any mystery coins yet and have only won one contest (Thanks EC :) ), but in these cases I would apply the intent rule. I very much doubt I would sell them for profit, but rather consider them as gifts to keep.

 

If I want to sell on ebay then I would buy them directly for resale.

 

By the way I am amazed at how many coins that are still available on reseller sites are bought significantly higher on ebay.

 

Just my thoughts

Edited by teamhaynes
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*snip*

By the way I am amazed at how many coins that are still available on reseller sites are bought significantly higher on ebay.

*snip*

 

A fool and his/her money are soon parted ! Unfortunately this is one of the reasons a great many coins get listed on ebay, but that's a whole other matter. :)

 

Back to the topic, with regard to Mystery Coins - my gifts are unconditional, I would hope that they are not sold but being realistic a percentage will inevitably end up being sold. Do I care? of course, it's only natural that I care. Should it matter? - no not really. Will it stop me giving coins in the future? no, because the reason I gave them in the first place has not changed, and to me that it is more important than what happens down the road.

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where did this spring from i do wonder anyways my 5 cents - I was rather presuming the sales I saw and bid on recently was by the actual fairy as they were proof coins but it now seems a little weird in hindsight.

 

I bought one early in my collecting career from someone in financial need cause the price of trading for same coin was like double anyway so take note: ebaying is not the only way to profit

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I've received one mystery coin (thanks Wishing Fish) and some others just given to me. Some are personal coins but all of these coins feel "personal" to me, and I would not sell them. I have to say I was surprised the first time I saw a mystery coin being auctioned.

 

I also know there are circumstances in others lives we are not privy to.

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i know it says on the side of the coinfusion coin, they are not to be sold, but how can the minters request that especially if the coins have gone through several hands?

 

i traded htf coins that i had paid good money for, for the coinfusions. why shouldn't i be able to sell them?

 

as most of you know i have to sell my coin collection in order to either fix my car or buy another one.

 

so far i have had permission to sell a couple of coins that were gifts to me and the mystery imagine coin - i was especially told to sell that to help with the car cause. also some very generous coiners have donated coins to be sold.

 

but i have a few gifted personals that i don't feel right about selling and they are causing me great consternation. do i send them back to the giver? give them to friends?

 

i don't like putting them in caches because they just get stolen.

 

and how does one contact the person who gifted a mystery coin?!

 

my coins are my only assets - not counting camera and computer gear. but they are the only things i have i can sell to raise money for a new car!

 

what is one supposed to do?

 

rsg

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so i have a question, if one trades a mystery coin that was gifted, for a coin or coins that they usually would not be able to obtain,, is that the same thing? your getting coins you normaly wouldent be able to get (hence profit)??

 

I have reciently parted with a few mystery coin in a trade for a few coins hard to get limited in quanity and very hard to come by for a trade. it was a very hard thing for me to do to make the trade,, but the new coins i recieved hold that same value/ or greater value , as ill never forget how i obtained those coins, i am very greatful for the mystery coins i have recieved but would never sell them in a money profit.

 

Gift coins are ment to make the reciever happy. sometimes a trade for the gifted coin put that gift value higher. for example ( i was sent some path tags-- i really cherrished them, but my hearts desire coin was a trade for them,, so the path tags hold a higher value to me. even tho i dont have them ill never forget the gifter because with out those pathtags i probably wouldent have my hearts desire coin.)

trades like this are like your road map to your collection, your coin history.

 

mystery coins sell--NO

trade -YES

 

SO WITH THAT I THANK ANY MYSTERY COIN GIFTER AS ILL NEVER SELL THEM, BUT I MAY TRADE THEM AND I HOPE THAT ISENT FROUNED APON.

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Those of us who are magnanimous and release our coins to the wild, gift them to others, or leave valuable items and travelers in geocaches must live by my #1 rule of geocaching -

 

See my first quote below in my signature line.

 

That says it all. Live it, learn it, know it, believe in it. The truth sometimes hurts.

 

:)

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First of all, a coin given with permission to be sold is not what we are talking about here. Those are expected to be sold with the proceeds being used for some specified purpose.

 

My problem is this, when a few individuals fly in the face of generous individuals and then cause them to want to be less generous in the future, it is all of us who suffer. Look at eplace right now and you can find examples of just such acts. As one who really appreciates the spirit and integrity of 98 percent of the community here, I find it reprehensible that the actions of the 2 percent can threaten it for us all.

 

Funny thing is that the people who are doing this, have read what is here and have even gone so far as to attack me personally through email for even bringing this up, but they won't show their faces here to defend their actions.

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Funny thing is that the people who are doing this, have read what is here and have even gone so far as to attack me personally through email for even bringing this up, but they won't show their faces here to defend their actions.

 

How cowardly of those people. If they are so certain that they are doing nothing wrong then why not be up front and respond directly on the thread vs. attacking you behind the scenes? I never quite get that mentality... :)

 

But while I understand your frustration and share it to a certain degree (I have been gifted anonymously and cherish my gifts greatly) the simple fact of the matter is that when people give freely there are always going to be those who take advantage. Just think about how many people who steal coins from caches!

 

You can let it eat you up inside or you can just live and let live (grumbling about it is certainly ok! :) ). Karma has a way of catching up to people, doesn't it?

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as most of you know i have to sell my coin collection in order to either fix my car or buy another one.

 

 

Again, I am relatively new to this forum so just my humble thoughts.

 

RSG in your case I would think that my idea of intent would not be an issue. Anyone who has gifted you a coin should be understanding. You have been quite clear with your situation and when it comes down to life... the coins become secondary. Mo one should have an issue with that.

 

Good luck figuring out your car situation.

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For me the mystery coins are a precious gift and I wouldn't sell any of mine because that is not the purpose of them unless it was specifically given to me to sell. I cherish each and every one of them for the meaning behind them. Those who are not the mystery coiners making a profit off their generosity bothers me and has already caused the geocoin fairy to stop her planned third minting of coins. In part though I looked to see who is selling the coins on ebay and then laughed. Of course they don't give a hoot about the mystery coiners being mad! Nor will she publicly defend her actions right now more than likely because the right hand man is no longer a coiner. But I digress here.

 

A debate such as this has gone on many times and will have those saying that its not a gift if it has strings attached and those who say that its the original intention that is the important thing. For me though just like Tsun and others have said. I also take note of who does it.........

 

The coinfusion coins state right on them Not For Sale. To me that just like any other item in my house--I shouldn't be selling them. If the coinfusion project gave their permission it should be in the auction. It could be a simple thing though to trade a coin such as that for one that could be sold. That would stay with in the original intent of the coin.

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Ive never recieved a mystery coin so I feel that im a neutral opinion.

If I recieved a gift coin from someone, I would not sell it. I would consider it an act of generosity from someone and it would be a slap in the face to them to try to make a profit on it. But... this is just my opinion and my personal feelings on it.

 

In actuality, a gift is a gift and a person who recieves a gift is now the owner of that property and can do whatever they want with it. It is more of a moral/integrety issue when somebody turns around and sells a gift for profit.

If you gave somebody a gift or mystery coin and they put it up for sale, its totally understandable to be upset about it, but you cant attatch strings to a gift.

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.... It seems to me that it would be a real slap in the face for those generous people to then see those coins being sold ...

 

To answer your question.

 

It all depends.

 

If the gift giver gave the coin as a real gift then they should not mind how the recepient enjoys it. If they gave it with a lot of rules and regulations it really wasn't a gift and if the person recieving it can't or won't honor the rules they probably shouldn't accept the gift.

 

A lot of mystery coins have a theme. Folks should honor the theme if they can and the givers should select folks willing to honor the theme to minimize "issues".

 

then again real life happens and nobody would begrudge someone selling the coin to raise the funds to pay off a hospital bill. Some folks would not share the reason for the need to sell but would be selling for honorable reasons.

 

Lastly, some folks are merely profiteering.

 

In the end, when we all pass on, our kids or their kids will at some point have no idea what the coin was about. How can you hold them to anything when they don't know the history?

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...

 

The coinfusion coins state right on them Not For Sale. To me that just like any other item in my house--I shouldn't be selling them. If the coinfusion project gave their permission it should be in the auction. It could be a simple thing though to trade a coin such as that for one that could be sold. That would stay with in the original intent of the coin.

 

i know nothing about this project, nor did i know about it when i obtained my two coinfusion coins so how the heck am i supposed to say i won't sell them when i need every dime for my car? do i need to write the folks listed on the coin for permission?

 

i have given away so many coins to people just for the fun of it, but i won't put them in caches for others to steal. i would rather just give them away for nothing.

 

i figure the coinfusions are mine to with what i want.

 

but i have the notion of not selling the fabulous mystery coins that have been gifted me, those are my personal feelings. but i am not going to put someone down for selling theirs. folks do what they have to do to survive.

 

everything in my house is for sale! except work things, reference books, camera gear and computers. the rest of it is just so much detritus. if i could sell it all in one lump sum, it would be gone.

 

rsg

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After seeing the auctions and decyphering who it is it does not surprise me. Yes, it is within her right to sell coins she was gifted or has found in caches and she can legally profit from them as they are her property.

 

In the strict sense anyone who leaves precious trinkets in the woods or mails them anonymously can feel good about their deeds but should have limited expectations to the outcome. Spreading good cheer and generosity can be but is not always contageous and the greedy one is always there to take advantage of the good natured ones.

 

One can split hairs on this issue for months and never reach consensus. There are those who cherish the SPIRIT of mystery coins: the magic of finding one or receiving one. And there are those who cherish the VALUE of those coins. The two camps are like oil and water.

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First of all, a coin given with permission to be sold is not what we are talking about here. Those are expected to be sold with the proceeds being used for some specified purpose.

 

My problem is this, when a few individuals fly in the face of generous individuals and then cause them to want to be less generous in the future, it is all of us who suffer. Look at eplace right now and you can find examples of just such acts. As one who really appreciates the spirit and integrity of 98 percent of the community here, I find it reprehensible that the actions of the 2 percent can threaten it for us all.

 

Funny thing is that the people who are doing this, have read what is here and have even gone so far as to attack me personally through email for even bringing this up, but they won't show their faces here to defend their actions.

 

I'm the seller of the coin being discussed and I'm certainly not afraid to post in this thread. The reason this was started in the first place is Cache in Hand tried to bid on this coin and found he was blocked from bidding on my auctions due to a prior transaction with him.

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I indeed feel the need to jump in here for a few reasons.

 

First, its being insinuated REPEATEDLY that I am the one selling the coins - regardless of what anyone thinks - the eBay account in question is NOT my own regardless of the location.

 

So... regardless of how much Cache In Hand would like to believe AND insinuate the auctions are my own, they are not. They ARE of coins I once owned - but my daughters interest in coins bottomed out once she saw the behavior of the 'adults' on the forums some time ago.

 

Secondly, it was stated that he was 'attacked' in an email. This is untrue. Since the original said he would be posting MY emails, I will save him the trouble and post the 'attacks' here.

 

You can read for yourself - no personal attacks. His intent was to start trouble with me, for no reason.

ALL EMAILS ARE SHOWN UNEDITED. I would challenge someone to tell me I attacked him.

 

Anyone on here - don't rub this guy the wrong way - he will start a personal vendetta against you too.

 

--------------My original email ----------------------------

 

I dont know what your problem is with me - but, since you've never had a negative experience with me, you must have some sort of personal issue. I have emailed the moderators and Groundspeak about your personal attacks and veiled references to me. You don't know me, nor have you ever contacted me, or spoken to me to know ANYTHING about myself, or my actions. The ebay user you reference is not even my account. I find it sad, and somewhat pitiful that you have nothing better to do than to try to start drama, and attack a complete stranger.

 

People like you are why many people leave the forums.

 

---------His reply --------------------------------------

 

Why are we blocked from bidding on your items on ebay LOL? Personally, I find it heinous that anyone would seek to profit from the receipt of a gift, unless permission was granted by the donor beforehand. That includes yourself or anyone else indescriminately. That is why people are so reluctant to be giving or to even be associated with the forums. I was referring to the seller anyway, and if that isn't you, then it doesn't pertain to you. Threaten me all you like, I think it is rather humorous, and fits your character perfectly. Please be advised that I reserve the right to copy and post anything you send to me via email as nonpriveledged information anywhere I deem appropriate. That includes any forum I choose to participate in or sites such as facebook or others etc. Please do not be surprised if your coorespondences show up in conversations at any of those venues.

Thanks,

CE

 

--------------------My reply ---------------------------

 

CE - I assumed you were the type to copy an email - which is why I chose my words carefully. =)

 

Indeed, the eBay account in question is NOT mine, but I do understand why you were blocked. You are generally an unpleasant person overall it seems. =)

 

A gift is a gift. If I gift a coin, its the persons to do whatever they wish with it. I've said this time and time again, and Ive always been perfectly fine with coins I gifted being sold.

 

I did not threaten you - I indeed DID report your post. It wasn't a threat, I was simply letting you know that your 'veiled personal attacks' don't go unnoticed. Go ahead and post my replies if you like - I pretty much assumed you would. You seem that type - its alot of fun to whine and complain about someone on a forum particularly when you don't personally know them.

 

For your own information - on Facebook - please note that personal attacks and issues between people/users can be reported, and can result in an account ban. So, if you have a beef with me, go right ahead, but tread carefully where your own account is concerned - I don't get involved in, or start public wars - which also should say alot about MY character, vs. your own.

You won't find me posting your emails publically - as quite frankly, I have better things to do with my time. =)

 

Have a nice day!

~P

 

----------His reply --------------------

 

Yeah. like spend peoples money that doesn't belong to you

 

-----------My FINAL email ----------------

 

Not quite - obviously you are so outside the situation that you have no idea of the circumstance.

Please, when you have dealt with me, or know the entire story, then feel free to comment.

Until then, Id recommend you speak only of what you know, which is nothing.

 

I always love how people who have never purchased from me (or GeocoinDesign) have an opinion, and seem to know everything about what has happened in the past.

 

Stop trying to have a personal beef - I've never dealt with you, so you have absolutely no merit to any bad claims about me.

You just seem to enjoy negativity - which is unfortunate. I have many coiner friends - longtime people who know me well - ALL of your nasty remarks are based on nothing. You do not know me at all.

 

Why not just leave me alone if you have nothing nice to say?

 

-------------------------

 

To Peters Trio --- not cowardly. As you can see, sometimes people prefer to not tell the whole story. I stepped in ONLY to make facts clear as I HATE conflict, and I detest when someone insinuates they know something that is simply untrue. Facts were deliberately twisted here - Cache In Hand invented his own story, including the sob one about being attacked in an email.

Edited by CinemaBoxers
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That's really funny Paula!!! Quite a hoot in fact :):):huh: You talk about YOUR character vs Cache in hand OMG You're right there is NO comparison....Hmmm spending money from coin presales on other stuff says a ton.....Oh yeah you said in your email to him you had better stuff to do than post his emails publicly but there they are for all to see :unsure::):):unsure:

 

I went back to the OP and reread it. He is very general and asks for the communities opinion on the general topic of selling gifted and mystery coins and the community is responding in similar ways as they have in other threads. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Mine is that I cherish the spirit in which the coin have been gifted to me and will honor that spirit. Others have other opinions and that's fine with me.

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Well, it appears a couple of emails are posted here, but not ALL. She sent a couple others also that she didn't bother to copy LOL. I really don't care. I did not even try to bid on the coins mentioned, as we have been blocked from her auctions for several months now because we had opinions regarding her presale issues which affected us through a third party who we had made arrangements to secure coins from. I am happy to see the parties come along here but it seems it wasn't to discuss the issue, but rather to personally attack.

 

Tell us BOP, why are you selling these coins and did you seek permission from the givers to do so? Or do you think it is personally your right to sell them for a profit regardless of what anyone else thinks.

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----

 

Another person assuming to know something about me that they do not. As a note, the presales you speak of are all completed, and ENTIRELY delivered, so get over it. Its not like you have dealt with me, therefore you don't know a thing about me. Nice attempt to change the subject though...

 

As for posting his emails - you are DARN right I did. I TOOK the time because he LIED about this entire situation. I made time. =) CIH said I didnt have the nerve to defend myself - which is obviously untrue - even though there is nothing here I need to defend myself over. (Except his outright lies)

 

Go ahead and stick behind your buddies LB4T - you are another follower who can't form an opinion based on facts. Im done responding to you - I have never seen you contribute anything but negativity.

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Well, it appears a couple of emails are posted here, but not ALL. She sent a couple others also that she didn't bother to copy LOL.

 

This is an OUTRIGHT LIE. ALL emails I sent were posted. I CHALLENGE him to post it. He has FULL Permission to post ANY email I have EVER sent him.

 

This IS ABSOLUTELY a complete lie, and I would LOVE to see these 'other' emails. I have the entire message thread from the ONLY email account I use.

 

Post them Cache In Hand. If I sent you 'other' emails, POST THEM, I challenge you.

 

And yes, I AM calling you complete and absolute LIAR. Lets see any other message I sent you... c'mon, show em.

Edited by CinemaBoxers
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Since there were several mystery coins sold recently and one or two up for auction at the moment all by different sellers I thought the OP was a general query.

 

This is not the place to be having this discussion folks, please, take it offline.

 

 

Had it not been made personal, I never would have commented - but CIH has proven to be the biggest liar on these forums. He several times tried to 'point' to me as the person selling the coins.

 

I did nothing wrong here, and it was indeed an attack on his part.

 

Please read up where someone said the people involved were afraid to defend their actions. Im tired of being addressed as the villain when I go out of my way to avoid conflict, but I will NOT stand by and watch people spew outright lies regarding myself.

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As a former Mystery Coin giver, I can say that the intention for mine was for them not to be sold and it was a huge slap in the face when many were sold on eBay. I would have appreciated it if they were traded to others who wanted them for commercial coins that could easily be sold on eBay. That didn't happen as often as I would have liked. Lesson learned.

 

At that point I said screw it, canned the project and minted a version of my own to sell for my personal profit. I feel MUCH better now and don't care what anyone does with them. The spirit of the project was ruined the first time a cacher sold one on auction for personal gain.

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Well, it appears a couple of emails are posted here, but not ALL. She sent a couple others also that she didn't bother to copy LOL. I really don't care. I did not even try to bid on the coins mentioned, as we have been blocked from her auctions for several months now because we had opinions regarding her presale issues which affected us through a third party who we had made arrangements to secure coins from. I am happy to see the parties come along here but it seems it wasn't to discuss the issue, but rather to personally attack.

 

Tell us BOP, why are you selling these coins and did you seek permission from the givers to do so? Or do you think it is personally your right to sell them for a profit regardless of what anyone else thinks.

 

Cache in Hand...I'm done discussing this. I've said my piece and you know that what I've said is true. As for my reasons and any other details of my sales...well that's not any of your business. My feedback speaks for itself. As for the emails, I've been BCC'd on every one of them. Had she written anything else, I'd have gotten that also. Had you emailed me, the person you SHOULD HAVE contacted regarding my auctions, you'd have gotten much worse.

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I am not much of a collector and have been sent two mystery coins. Which sit on a coin stand on a shelf in the dining room. I have been given two personal coins one from Avroair and one from Tsun they sit there also. I find walking past the personals I think of you guys. Guests comment on the dragon fly and the men seem to really like Avroair's pilot watch. Everything else I have purchased has been released or will be. I am not sure why some get involved but it is all about the fun for me. I can make more money with less hassle at work than I can selling coins on Ebay. It is an interesting debate.

 

Cinamaboxers, if you do not throw wood on the fire it will go out. I purchased one of yours off another user with the intent to activate it and release it, love the dogs on film still looking at it. I like the design.

 

I am very cautious to guess the intent and motives of others, while actions can be judged as actions motives and intent can only be understood by the individual if they search their own heart for answers to their own motives and how weary that is.

 

See how much I typed and how little I said. I can only take responsibility for myself and complaining about others will not change their heart, but will make mine more bitter. Now I have said too much of too little.

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Re: [GEO] CinemaBoxers contacting cache_in_hand from Geocaching.com‏

From: Paula Rossmann (cinemapaula@gmail.com)

Sent: Sat 4/11/09 4:26 AM

To: chuck ekleberry (ceberry45@hotmail.com)

 

Not quite - obviously you are so outside the situation that you have no idea of the circumstance.

Please, when you have dealt with me, or know the entire story, then feel free to comment.

Until then, Id recommend you speak only of what you know, which is nothing.

 

I always love how people who have never purchased from me (or GeocoinDesign) have an opinion, and seem to know everything about what has happened in the past.

 

Stop trying to have a personal beef - I've never dealt with you, so you have absolutely no merit to any bad claims about me.

You just seem to enjoy negativity - which is unfortunate. I have many coiner friends - longtime people who know me well - ALL of your nasty remarks are based on nothing. You do not know me at all.

 

Why not just leave me alone if you have nothing nice to say?

 

~P

 

There is one Paula, I won't post any others because you are taking this discussion off topic. Please stick to answering the question in the opening thread.

 

Thanks

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There is one Paula, I won't post any others because you are taking this discussion off topic. Please stick to answering the question in the opening thread.

 

Thanks

 

I was referring to your insinuating I sent you threatening or harassing emails - you are making it sound like I sent you something mean spirited, and mean, or attacking, which is a complete LIE.

 

I am asking to see ANY NEGATIVE EMAILS I sent to you other than the original thread - which THIS is a part of. (That I clearly mentioned above) You are insinuating that I posted a nasty, threatening, personal attack WHICH I DID NOT and I still challenge you to post.

 

You have my complete and full permission to post any emails I sent you. Id like people to know IF I said anything nasty to you, which I DID NOT.

 

ALL of my emails to you were INQUIRING as to WHY you have an issue with me, and asking why YOU attack ME. I emailed THROUGH Groundspeak - which would be unwise if I was going to make a personal attack, or say something that would hurt my Geocaching account.

 

I would be VERY happy to share any correspondance I had with you regarding this issue with ANYONE. You are a liar, and enjoy any attention regardless of where it comes from. Sad, but true.

 

My opinion on the original post? Its been said many times before. Its a coin, not a kidney. The value is only what the people who collect them assign them. To me, I have special coins, but these are from people who mean alot to me, as I dont collect much anymore.

 

You took this off topic by saying we wouldnt defend ourselves.

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Cinamaboxers, if you do not throw wood on the fire it will go out. I purchased one of yours off another user with the intent to activate it and release it, love the dogs on film still looking at it. I like the design.

 

Thank you for the compliment - I appreciate it. My dog coins are some of my favorite designs!

And, for the record - LOL Anyone can sell or trade em anytime!

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I know it might be expected, but I'm not going to say anything about CB. If you haven't learned by now about her, well.... I got a presale on some coins for ya!

 

But I do want to tell you about my dealings with Cache in Hand. These people are two of the kindest, generous people I know. They have been behind some "secret giving" locally, and probably in the forum. (sorry Chuck, but no good deed....) They are always the first to jump in on auctions when someone is in need. They are honest, and I've never had any shady dealings with them.

 

I can't say enough good things about these people, and if you've ever dealt with them, I have no doubt that you would agree. These are good people.

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I do believe a gifted coin should be kept or be gifted to someone else. Or placed in a cache for someone else to have.

The mystery coins should be the same way as well. IMO

I know I have seen 3 of the same mystery coins come up for sale on EBay from the same person, so my guess is that person is the one to have created the coin. And they might be trying to get a little back for the next issue.

 

Not everyone has the same moral values, dosen't mean it is right or wrong to do. Unless asked not to.

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Mmmm....I am Dutch and I don't know anything about what is going on between people. I am not stupid and I do read a lot on this forums, but I now am very sorry that I have reacted to, what I thought, was a general question. I am sort of please to see a lot of others had valueble reactions too.

Now how does it feel to end up in a personal fight? Yuk. Please take your fight somewhere else? I don't want to get involved in something, only because I am posting my oppinion in a topic.

Edited by Sivota
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The spirit of the project was ruined the first time a cacher sold one on auction for personal gain.

 

In which case I feel quite sad for you, life will be a series of disappointments if that is all it takes for you to can the project. :)

 

Actually, it was about the 30th or 35th one sold when the project was cancelled, but no matter. I made my large investment back. It's all water under the bridge to me. As I said, I learned my lesson :)

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As a former Mystery Coin giver, I can say that the intention for mine was for them not to be sold and it was a huge slap in the face when many were sold on eBay. I would have appreciated it if they were traded to others who wanted them for commercial coins that could easily be sold on eBay. That didn't happen as often as I would have liked. Lesson learned.

 

At that point I said screw it, canned the project and minted a version of my own to sell for my personal profit. I feel MUCH better now and don't care what anyone does with them. The spirit of the project was ruined the first time a cacher sold one on auction for personal gain.

 

I did not start this thread to get into a fight, and I won't continue pushing a fight here. I was not the one who initiated emails condemning and attacking. I did start this thread to get the opinions of coin gifters and owners and to see if my worries were founded. The above post justifies that my feelings are at least patially right. When a few people profiteer for the purpose of greed as it pertains to selling gifted mystey coins, it is the entire community that suffers. I am very sorry to see the above post because many very deserving folks here will have lost out. I hope not all donors are as put off as others or we may well be seeing the extinction of the mystery coin.

 

I thank you all for your honest opinions.

Edited by cache_in_hand
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I've often thought of this particular question, and whenever I do, I remember what my dad told me when I was a little girl. A true GIFT does not come with strings attached. If you choose to give, and are being sincerely generous, then you need to let go of what happens after your lovely act. My father told me this so I could understand what it really meant to give.

 

What people choose to do with that gift is a reflection on their own character. Do they cherish it? Do they return it? Do they pass on your generosity and give to someone else? In the case of coins, do they sell it for profit? I can completley understand how putting it up on e-bay would feel like a 'slap in the face', but I would have to remind myself what my father told me - and swallow my resentment, which only makes ugly the whole act of giving in the first place. Let it go into the world and be happy from there.

 

That being said, on a personal level, any coin I have been gifted is very special to me. I would not sell them. I would think that it would be rude in some way, and not honoring the person's generousity. That doesn't allow me to judge other's actions, though. A true gift should be without strings attached.

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