Park districts placing their own caches--Good or Bad?

2k · February 27, 2003

Came across this cache. The park system will be placing six caches in the park over 2003 but private people won't be allowed to place their own caches.

Do you think this will be good or bad for Geocaching?

Get your trackable USA geocoins at http://www.usageocoins.com

2k · February 27, 2003

Here is the cache I was referring too.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=47527

Get your trackable USA geocoins at http://www.usageocoins.com

February 27, 2003

Why not. This definitely supplies ammunition when dealing with some of the other more reluctant goverment agencies.

3.1k · February 27, 2003

Hmm, I voted Good before completely reading the question, so I missed that they aren't allowing others to place. On the one hand, the only alternative in the park's view is probably a complete ban, and this is obviously better. On the other hand, we don't want *every* park system doing it this way. But I don't think that will happen. This appears to be a nature preserve, and I understand such areas being leary of even the slightest impact.

I'd also have to know how big the park is. Would it accomodate more than 6 caches anyway?

Finally, the page says no caches are allowed "at this time". I'm currently working with a park system to place some official caches as sort of a test run. This might be similar. With their logging method, they might be gauging how much traffic a cache would get, how many new visitors they'd bring in, how much impact there is, etc.

After this analysis, I think I'll stick with "Good."

Mein Vater war ein Wandersmann, und ich hab' auch im Blut

February 27, 2003

Voted Good, Geocachers going to this site might want to make some extra effort to "Trash Out" and make a note of it in the log. If they see that Geocachers are good for helping the upkeep of the park, it might make a difference.

1.5k · February 27, 2003

Its better that no caches at all.

An important thing to consider, and I think a lot of us overlook this, is that when you place a cache in a park you are creating a new foot traffic destination.

There's a big difference between fifty people walking around in a park, and fifty people walking around to the same spot in a park. Have you noticed that the park-established destinations tend to have things like pavement, benches, fountains, etc?

Believe it or not, parks do take work to maintain. This involves ongoing maintenance and planning, and having a few private parties dump a dozen new destination points into an established park can cause quite the headache.

February 27, 2003

How many finds does the park have? Are the meeting the find/hide ratio-requirement?

I am for this I think it will promote the hobby!

Vini Vidi Velcro I came I saw I stuck around Capn Skully

1.5k · February 27, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Capn_Skully:
How many finds does the park have? Are the meeting the find/hide ratio-requirement?

You jest, but in seriousness I think any potential find/hide ratio requirement would be made null when hiding on your own property, or property that you (as an individual with total oversight, or as a group) manage.

February 27, 2003

More rules huh?

Vini Vidi Velcro I came I saw I stuck around Capn Skully

February 27, 2003

Everyone keeps saying that it's better than no caches at all. I disagree. Part of the fun of caching is that each placer has a different viewpoint and creative way of hiding a cache. I'd rather have no caches than 6 boring ones that are all basically the same.

Second, how does the park decide who is going to place these caches? What if the person they pick is an idiot and knows absolutely nothing about geocaching? Granted, hiding caches is not rocket science but I think it helps if the person hiding has at least a little experience in caching.

Third, the caches will probably be placed in certain designated tourist spots rather than truly unique places in the park. Part of the fun of caching is finding a neat little area in a part of the park I never knew existed.

Fourth, who's going to maintain or look after these caches? Ranger Bob? Unlikely. They'll probably be placed and rarely if ever checked on.

Can park placed caches work? Most definitely YES, but in my mind there are still too many unanswered questions that prevent me from giving it the thumbs up. I guess time and the logs will truly tell if these caches will be decent and maintained.

--CoronaKid

February 27, 2003

Hey, do a little homework folks. This park looks like they got their act together. They seem to be targeting great spots in there park, and most likely the folks hiding these are geocachers too. "Ranger Bob" isn't always a paper-pushing desk sitter...they usually know the park better then joe-blow beer drinker coming in the park twice a year. Check out where they are going to put their caches, and look at this map...

http://www.geaugaparkdistrict.org./nature/parks.htm

I don't live near here, but I wish I did, looks like a great park with active managers trying to keep a local park going with creative ideas like geocaching, when a lot of parks around this country are losing jobs and reducing services. I would find these caches, and support other parks to do the same...this sport is big enough for land mangaers too.

Grrrrrrrrr...

jackbear

February 27, 2003

quote:
Can park placed caches work? Most definitely YES, but in my mind there are still too many unanswered questions that prevent me from giving it the thumbs up. I guess time and the logs will truly tell if these caches will be decent and maintained.

--CoronaKid

Actually, that's a point in the favor of officially placed caches; they are likely to be relatively well maintained.

Ron/yumitori

9.1k · February 27, 2003

I agree with Jackbear! Read the cache page that's linked to in the second post. Nothing but favorable logs, with lots of "first geocache I've found" and "first time visiting this park." Perfect. You need some 1/1 caches 50 feet off the trail to get people hooked on the sport. And all the Cleveland veterans had nothing but nice things to say to the park management. Also read the profile for the parks department. They've designated a specific person responsible for the caches. They promote their park system with a link to a map, plans for other caches, and a neat prize drawing if you find all the caches that are hidden in the parks during the year. I wish all local park systems were like this! I plan on visiting all their parks with caches sometime this year.... something I would NEVER do if it weren't for geocaching.

My other experience with "official" cache placements are the fine caches placed by the North Country Trails Association in Moraine State Park and McConnell's Mills State Park. These are some of the oldest and nicest geocaches in my area.

All that being said, your mileage may vary from one park system to the next. Just like other hiders, judge each one on its own merits. But don't be afraid of park managers who get involved directly! Welcome them, and be grateful for the positive attitude.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

I was formerly employed by the Department of Redundancy Department, but I don't work there anymore.

24.7k · February 27, 2003

and here's why. First of all the park can monitor the cache and directly move it or change it if they feel the wear and tear is too high. They can and will do this more often than we would as geocachers because it's their front yard. True maybe they won't be as creative at first with their caches, but they will learn.

Also they can cycle and rotate. Call it churn. Caches should come and go. Especially in urban areas. It if they stay forever we "old timers" who have found everything within 100 miles have nothing to hunt. But if the park cycles caches through the park once a year or every 6 months it keeps us all busy, keeps the caches fresh, and provides us with new challenges. It's a win win situation.

Wherever you go there you are.

1.6k · February 27, 2003

Of those park managers that now about geocaching, most have been eager to provide interesting places to hide a cache. They know their park, it's their backyard.

I think parks placing their own caches are great.

CR

February 27, 2003

I think it will be good.

As said before, it's better than none at all.

I imagine that the park personnel are just making sure park interests and assets are looked after. They're obviously aware of geocaching & geocaching.com and the likely alternative is that they would confiscate any unauthorized caches.

If maintenance were to become a problem, I doubt if they would mind a local cacher "adopting" the cache so long as it wasn't moved without approval.

Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza. - Dave Barry

February 27, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jackbear:
Hey, do a little homework folks. This park looks like they got their act together. They seem to be targeting great spots in there park, and most likely the folks hiding these are geocachers too. "Ranger Bob" isn't always a paper-pushing desk sitter...they usually know the park better then joe-blow beer drinker coming in the park twice a year. Check out where they are going to put their caches, and look at this map...

http://www.geaugaparkdistrict.org./nature/parks.htm

I don't live near here, but I wish I did, looks like a great park with active managers trying to keep a local park going with creative ideas like geocaching, when a lot of parks around this country are losing jobs and reducing services. I would find these caches, and support other parks to do the same...this sport is big enough for land mangaers too.

Grrrrrrrrr...

jackbear

I apologize Jackbear, I should've checked out the park before I commented. You are right, it does look like they plan on doing a fine job placing caches. Even the website has a nice look to it.

I guess I took this the wrong way. My initial reaction was negative, but I can see that if it's done right it can actually be a great positive. My main worry is that the world of geocaching will become smaller and smaller as more and more areas are taken away from us. Granted, there's still caches to find in this park but those that love to hide have just lost an entire park.

I'll use mountain biking as an analogy. As an avid mountain biking, I can't tell you how many great trails have been closed to mountain biking. Some parks have tried to designate certain trails for mountain biking, but ultimately I am always disappointed with the areas and trails they pick. At first this was only mildly annoying, but now the sport of mountain biking is becoming more and more restricted. What's the end result? Mountain bikers have formed clubs and groups that thumb their nose at the law and ride wherever they want.

What's to stop geocachers from ultimately doing the same thing? Just a thought.

--CoronaKid

February 27, 2003

This is in my backyard (just about). The park system wants to do test caches to monitor how fast social trails are formed. If all goes well, they will institue a permit system similar to the one set up in Cleveland MetroParks. GeaugaGarmin (local cacher) works for the park system and will be placing and monitoring the caches. They are planning to start easy and finish with hard caches. (The one pointed in the link at the top is 50 feet off trail, but they are planning a cache at the end that a bit offtrail.)

Never hold a cat and a Dustbuster at the same time.

[This message was edited by OblongFred on February 27, 2003 at 01:36 PM.]

February 27, 2003

As Oblong Fred mentions in this case it's a good thing, otherwise no caching at all in this park system. The next-door Cleveland Metroparks has done a great job so far in placing thier own caches and providing an easy to follow permit system. The county north of the mentioned cache has banned geocaching all together.

February 27, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by CoronaKid:
"...I'd rather have no caches than 6 boring ones that are all basically the same..."

Really...?

February 27, 2003

Looking around a lot of places 6 caches and park staff support, at least you can still hunt and they have not refused geocaching.

Try it you might learn something about the area and park.

gm100guy

http://members.rogers.com/gm100guy/cachepage.htm

Ontario geocachers http://groups.msn.com/GeocachinginOntario/homepage

February 27, 2003

My vote is 'good'. The park system is trying to work with geocachers instead of having a total ban on caches in the park. This may lead to other caches being allowed, or it may not. I still consider it to be a victory for geocaching.

As for CoronaKid's four points, they are true for caches that have been placed by individuals. We've all seen caches that were poorly located, not maintained, or otherwise not the best experience out there. Notice that I didn't say it was a bad experience. I'm one of those who believe that any cache is better than no cache. In some parts of the country the caches are so close together that you can find a dozen within a mile or so. Not so around here. I'll take any cache I can get.

It comes down to: Seeing is believing, so come to northeast Ohio and check it out!

RichardMoore

1.1k · February 27, 2003

I voted this as a good thing for all.

After reading the page for their caches, it sounds like they will be trying to do things right as we know the game now.

Other parks will be able to check in with this park system and this will give the other park systems something to compare with.

And having a riddle setup - be that good or bad - will allow others to play and maybe join our ranks.

The only downside I could see was people not having to have a GPSr to find the cache. How will the park know if a GPSr cacher caused "the" problem or a riddle cacher caused "the" problem ?

logscaler.

February 27, 2003

this is a good thing...

there had been previous caches placed in the park district (which has 11 small parks around Geauga County) without permission...

and instead of following the lead of Lake County and instituting a complete geocaching ban, they decided for 2003 to do the compromise thing, and hide 6 caches of their own, and if the impact is not too severe, they are open to expanding the geocaching to guidelines that would be similar to what we currently have here in the Cleveland Metroparks.

Would it have been nice if they allowed others' caches this year? Yes, but in this case, some is better than all or none...

As for the quality of cache locations -- that I have no concerns about. I know several of the naturalists (And volunteers) who are involved with the GPD Geocaching, and I am sure they will provide quality caches.

Yeah, the first one is a little close to the trail, but really looking forward to trying Cache #2 this weekend...

And the fact that the park district is this involved is remarkable because they have a smaller staff than the other Local Park Districts, and by far the major part of the effort everyone involved with Geauga Park District put in for 2002 was in the construction and opening of their new Nature Center, so they haven't had as much time to spend with other projects such as geocaching...

But it's growing, the volunteers and staff involved with it are quality people (And quality geocachers), the parks are really pretty, and it's something to look forward too...

So, when you're in NE Ohio, stop by the West Woods Nature Center and whichever GPD caches are out when you come by...

SherwoodForest

Cache well, and see ya round the bend...

2.6k · February 27, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:

Also they can cycle and rotate. Call it churn. Caches should come and go. Especially in urban areas. It if they stay forever we "old timers" who have found everything within 100 miles have nothing to hunt.

This is off topic but I think it's an important point. I think caches should have a life span. Depending mostly on how many hits they get and how big the local population is. I archive caches after I think they've lived their life and most of the locals have had their turn.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

February 28, 2003

When the Cleveland Metroparks announced that all caches placed would have to be removed after a year, there was a lot of grumbling. However, this has turned out to be a good thing as it prompted a lot of new caches. I've got two I want to hide if the snow ever goes away.

The Geauga Park District is doing a pretty good job considering the Lake county and Summit county parks have both banned caching and won't even discuss the issue. The Lorain county metroparks have chosen not to respond to e-mails, letters, or phone calls in any way so folks have gone ahead and hidden caches, myself included. Unfortunately, I think they'll be the next group to ban caching.

Would I like to see GPD allow more caches, sure, but I'm patient. The one cache placed so far was more imaginative than a number of other caches in the area. We've got one on a hillside less than 40 feet from the nearest parking and one in a Snapple bottle hidden among some trash behind a building. Based on the limited conversation I've had with the naturalist running the show at GPD, I would guess that a limited number of private caches will be allowed in the future. They'll probably require permits like the Cleveland Metroparks but that's fine because the permit system is working well.

When a permit is applied for in the Cleveland parks, a volunteer is sent out to check the area for any environmental sensitivity concerns. The volunteers are also cachers (and dadgum nice guys, yes, I'm sucking up). To the best of my knowledge, the only caches that were not permitted where either to close to the rangers firing range or in a designated bird banding area.

Now where did I park my car???????

February 28, 2003

Here is a government group that recognizes geocaching as a harmless hobby and is using it to promote the park. The odds of the caches being good or bad are no different than if placed by individuals. I have been to some great park sponsored caches. Check out GC4207 and GC4208. While keeping private caches out of the park is not a great thing, I can see why they would want to control it and I think their compromise works well for both sides.

February 28, 2003

There are at least 6 caches hidden by the Crystal Lake Illinois Park District. Nicely spread out thruout park properties. Nice to see participation at that level. I'm not sure if they allow 'outsiders' to hide or not.

February 28, 2003

Thanks for all the kind words and support of the Geauga Park District's effort to bring geocaching into our county park system. I don't actually work for the park but I am a GPD volunteer naturalist and have the priveldge of working with the people who set park policy. Much thought and planning has taken place and I'm looking forward to the time when park patrons will be issued permits to place caches.

1.4k · February 28, 2003

The staff at the Fort Worth Nature Center placed this cache. Of the five that are currently in the park, I would consider this one the best (even better than the one I placed!) The park currently allows 5 caches to be in place at any one time, and each can be in place for 1 year. I've already traded emails with a staff member for some ideas on how to replace mine when it expires in April. I've had nothing but positive experiences in dealing with the Nature Center staff.

February 28, 2003

This is a wonderful way to get caches placed and a great way for park management to get people to come to their park. I like the way that they added a little more to the game by offering a chance at a prize if you find them all.

I hope that it goes well for them and they start promoting the idea to other managers in their professional organizations.

On the other hand, it dosen't say either way, but it looks like they may remove each cache after a month. That way the visitor is forced to come to the park six times rather than wait until all six are placed. I hope not.

Mickey

Max Entropy

More than just a name, a lifestyle.

March 1, 2003

Each cache will stay in place as others are added - one every 2 months. By the end of 2003, all 6 caches will be more or less evenly distributed throughout the county. A specific pull date has not been set but a 1 year expiration date is anticipated. Before the end of 2003 the park district policy is expected to address patron placed caches and specific details as to pull dates and future official park district caches.

Kathy (GeaugaGarmin)

9.4k · March 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by GeaugaGarmin:
Thanks for all the kind words and support of the Geauga Park District's effort to bring geocaching into our county park system. I don't actually work for the park but I am a GPD volunteer naturalist and have the priveldge of working with the people who set park policy. Much thought and planning has taken place and I'm looking forward to the time when park patrons will be issued permits to place caches.

Thanks for convincing the park district to allow your caches for testing purposes. I hope you have positive results and they allow others to place caches there once your caches prove that we aren't harming the environment.

--------------------------------------------

This signature line intentionally left blank

March 1, 2003

Bravo.. My hat goes to those who help further this hobby. I think having the park officals take part in this is a win win situation. More visitors to parks means more revenues for parks means more parks for us

March 2, 2003

I voted good, because it also has a virtual quality to it with the questionnaire form that if you get all 6 answers right you could win a Geocaching prize pack. That makes it quite unique

More to see, More to do

3k · March 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jackbear:
joe-blow beer drinker coming in the park twice a year.

What did you just call me???

Seriously its good and bad because of promotion we are starting to have problems such as having geocaching banned in certain places. Automatically in some cases land managers think geocaching is bad without knowing anything more about it than its a bunch of people tromping around in the woods. I believe promoting geocaching is a catch-22 that only time will how things will turn out.

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

March 2, 2003

This in my opinion is great. Keep in mind tht i'm lazy and haven't read all of the postings in this thread so iamy be repeating things previously said. But...

In my opinion any park that is willing to participate in caching is a bonus, even if they have restricted other cache placements. Thier caches will be the benchmark on which they will judge locak geocaching. They will be able to bring more people into the parks more visitors means more money for the park in several ways. Plus they will be monitoring the caches and be able to see how much pleasure that these caches bring to the people lookign for them and they can see the amount of environmental impact geocaching has. If they find it acceptable they may permit cachers to hide caches in thier park or they may place more themselves. Or they may place the caches with the help of an experienced local cacher that will be able to add some variety to the ones the presently have. And with any luck they will report to thier superiors how beneficial caches are to the park and will win favor for more caches there and in other parks.

Eeyore

I'm one sat short of triangulation.

Park districts placing their own caches--Good or Bad?

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