Jump to content

How did the term "muggle" come to be for non-geocaching peeps

The Irish Pirates
Followers 0

Recommended Posts

Renegade Knight

+Renegade Knight

Posted
Posted

I started using it when I started caching and never knew it was being used elsewhere too.

 

Looks like several people also had the same idea and started using the term and that helped it catch on faster.

 

Somone used it first, and it wasn't me (based on that thread) but a lot of people with the same idea helped it spread without knowing about the others doing the same thing. I wish you could look up logs by keyword and see who used it first in 'real life'.

 

The thing about muggle is that it was the right word at the right time when a word was needed. That's why a buch of people tossed it into the mix with identical usage. There are words in religion for "Everyone but us" but they just don't do the trick. In geocaching, muggles are a real problem in that they can plunder caches, hang around and stop you from finding one, or report you for looking suspicious. We needed a word and it filled the void.

 

At this point muggle will become like Kleenex. Popular usage can make a word public domain. Besides who are they going to sue? Everyone?

Link to comment
RJFerret

+RJFerret

Posted
Posted

For those who don't like it, remember it is short for 'geomuggles' after all.

 

I didn't know it was H.P. related until afterward ironically.

 

Didn't someone say in a thread last Spring that a word-a-day calendar had 'muggle' and listed 'geomuggle' as an offshoot?

 

Enjoy,

 

Randy

Link to comment
parkrrrr

+parkrrrr

Posted
Posted

I've always thought that the Harry Potter usage of the word "muggle" was more than a little racist, so I refuse to help it gain currency in the geocaching world. What's wrong with "non-cachers" or the more accurate "people who don't geocache yet?"

 

("Peeps" is another word I refuse to use, unless referring to those addictive marshmallow confections from the Just Born company.)

 

pirate.cgi.gif

Link to comment
Divine

+Divine

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

I've always thought that the Harry Potter usage of the word "muggle" was more than a little racist

Help me with this one, as I'm not a native English speaker: How is that racist? I don't wanna sound racist (especially not knowing about it).
quote:
What's wrong with "non-cachers" or the more accurate "people who don't geocache yet?"
Nothing wrong...it just sounds as stiff as if you said 'someone who denies the existence of god' or 'one who disbelieves or denies the existence of a god, or supreme intelligent being' instead of 'atheist'.

 

- I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. -

Link to comment
parkrrrr

+parkrrrr

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Divine:

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

I've always thought that the Harry Potter usage of the word "muggle" was more than a little racist

Help me with this one, as I'm not a native English speaker: _How_ is that racist? I don't wanna sound racist (especially not knowing about it).

Well, the Harry Potter meaning of the word is "one who can't use magic." The ability to use magic is, in that world, apparently genetic. The word itself may be all right, but most people who use it in the Harry Potter universe use it with a sense of either pity or contempt. Maybe it's not strictly racist, but it's not a very nice word anyway.

quote:
quote:
What's wrong with "non-cachers" or the more accurate "people who don't geocache yet?"
Nothing wrong...it just sounds as stiff as if you said 'someone who denies the existence of god' or 'one who disbelieves or denies the existence of a god, or supreme intelligent being' instead of 'atheist'.
"non-cachers" is only three syllables. "Geomuggles" is four, and doesn't communicate the meaning as well to the large subset of people who have read neither Harry Potter nor these forums.

 

pirate.cgi.gif

Link to comment
Fakk 2

Fakk 2

Posted
Posted

I used the word civilian also, but only because I was in the army and thats how we distinguished from the military people, those civilians (said with a few extra stressed syllables), I am starting to use muggle now as it is catching on.

 

I bought a GPS. Now I get lost with style.

Link to comment
Divine

+Divine

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

quote:
Originally posted by Divine:

Help me with this one, as I'm not a native English speaker: _How_ is that racist? I don't wanna sound racist (especially not knowing about it).

Well, the Harry Potter meaning of the word is "one who can't use magic." The ability to use magic is, in that world, apparently genetic. The word itself may be all right, but most people who use it in the Harry Potter universe use it with a sense of either pity or contempt. Maybe it's not strictly racist, but it's not a very nice word anyway.

Ahh ok, so the supposed racism comes only from the H.P. books. I was afraid that 'muggle' or e.g. 'mugg' was a racist English word as such. Well, all I can say I don't consider 'muggle' very serious word as it's adopted from popular culture, like Jeremy put it. The new meaning - geomuggle doesn't mean there's a genetic difference between 'us' and 'them'. Got your point though.

 

EDIT:Just checked the English-Finnish slang word dictionary I happen to have, and it had 'muggles' there meaning marijuana leaves or a marijuana joint (1920-).icon_eek.gificon_wink.gif

quote:
quote:
quote:
What's wrong with "non-cachers" or the more accurate "people who don't geocache yet?"
Nothing wrong...it just sounds as stiff as if you said 'someone who denies the existence of god' or 'one who disbelieves or denies the existence of a god, or supreme intelligent being' instead of 'atheist'.
"non-cachers" is only three syllables. "Geomuggles" is four, and doesn't communicate the meaning as well to the large subset of people who have read neither Harry Potter nor these forums.
'Non-geocachers' is five syllables, 'geomuggles' is four. And believe me, 'spam' does communicate pretty well to the large subset of email address owners who haven't seen Monty Python.icon_wink.gif

 

- I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. -

Link to comment
Doc-Dean

+Doc-Dean

Posted
Posted

I don't believe muggle (or geomuggle) is racist. It simply distinguishes between those in or out of the magical (or geocaching) world.

 

How is different from the terms - "country-folk" vs "city-folk"??

 

We are all free to believe what we want to believe, that is what freedom is all about! Those of you outside of the US, check with your governments for what you are allowed to believe! icon_razz.gif

 

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow action-smiley-076.gif

Link to comment
sept1c_tank

+sept1c_tank

Posted
Posted

quote:
"...English-Finnish slang word dictionary I happen to have, and it had 'muggles' there meaning marijuana leaves or a marijuana joint..."

cool--good to know when I visit Tampere! icon_wink.gif

 

==============="If it feels good...do it"================

 

**(the other 9 out of 10 voices in my head say: "Don't do it.")**

 

.

Link to comment
Divine

+Divine

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by sept1c_tank:

cool--good to know when I visit Tampere! icon_wink.gif

Actually it's an English word (it was English to Finnish dictionary, remember?icon_smile.gif), so probably no one here would understand it.icon_razz.gif The dictionary doesn't specify where (in what parts of the English speaking world) it has been used; just that it's used since 1920's and it's underworld and junkie slang. It was totally new to me too (and probably to J.K. Rowling too.icon_wink.gif)

 

quote:
Originally posted by Doc-Dean:

We are all free to believe what we want to believe, that is what freedom is all about! Those of you outside of the US, check with your governments for what you are allowed to believe!

Err...I don't need any government to tell me what I'm allowed to believe. What has freedom to do in this geomuggle topic anyway?icon_confused.gif

 

- I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory. -

Link to comment
Doc-Dean

+Doc-Dean

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Divine:

Err...I don't need any government to tell me what I'm allowed to believe. What has freedom to do in this _geomuggle_ topic anyway?

 

You would be surprised at what some governments tell their people to believe, but that is getting way OT...

 

When I mentioned freedom, I was pointing out that my beliefs and someone else's beliefs may be different (ie. is the term muggle racist?) and the truth may be somewhere in the middle.

 

The freedom is to believe whatever we want to believe and if someone doesn't like what I believe then 'nuts to them' and if I don't like what they believe then 'nuts to me'!

 

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow action-smiley-076.gif

 

[This message was edited by Doc-Dean on August 26, 2003 at 12:37 PM.]

Link to comment
Team Og Rof A Klaw

+Team Og Rof A Klaw

Posted
Posted

There's some evidence that Rowling, uh, recycled the term "muggles," and several other things. Turns out it had been used by one Nancy Stouffer of Camp Hill, PA -- in 1984.

 

Larry Potter returns to print

 

_1224264_potter_300.gif

"Spot the difference: Larry Potter (l) vs. Harry Potter ®"

____________________________

- Team Og Rof A Klaw

All who wander are not lost.

 

[This message was edited by Team Og Rof A Klaw on August 26, 2003 at 02:25 PM.]

Link to comment
Hard Oiler

+Hard Oiler

Posted
Posted

A quick Google reveals the Oxford English Dictionary has accepted the word Muggle and extended its definition to mean "a person who lacks a particular skill or skills, or who is regarded as inferior in some way." Previous OED definitions of muggle include "a tail representing that of a fish", "a young woman; (spec.) a sweetheart", and "marijuana. Also: a marijuana cigarette; a joint. muggle-head...a marijuana smoker"

 

So it sounds very appropriate for some of those non-geocachers who hang out around caches icon_wink.gif

Link to comment
yumitori

+yumitori

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Team Og Rof A Klaw:

There's some evidence that Rowling, uh, _recycled_ the term "muggles," and several other things. Turns out it had been used by one Nancy Stouffer of Camp Hill, PA -- in 1984.

 

You were the victim of a scam. Stouffer's lawsuit was rejected, and the judge determined she was attempting to perpetuate a fraud against Rowling and her publishers.

 

A Google search should turn up plenty of additional information. I looked over Stouffer's 'evidence' of the supposed parallels between her works and the Harry Potter, and they were either ridiculous stretches in an attempt to make a link, or they were standard literary devices (such as a castle with huge wooden doors and stone steps).

 

One of Stouffer's claims was that she created the word 'muggle', and Rowling's use was evidence of plagiarism. The definition that Divine found was one of the ones used to show that 'muggle' was in use long before either woman was born...

 

Ron/yumitori

 

---

 

Remember what the dormouse said...

Link to comment
Geo Ho

+Geo Ho

Posted
Posted

I love the term Geomuggle. It's apt. Being a rabid Harry Potter fan, it's no wonder!

 

Though "geochallenged" and "cacheinept" as suggested by The Rocket Pack are also pretty clever.

 

Hmmm . . . we may not be magical, but we certainlay are special. If nothing else, we are Geogeeks!

 

ANYHOO, happy caching and all that fun stuff!!

 

Cache ya later!

 

icon_biggrin.gif

Link to comment
ErSamin

+ErSamin

Posted
Posted

I'm coming in on this one a little late, but, yes, muggle was quite a popular term for marijuana with the early jazz players (Louis Armstrong era).

 

Along with the muggle moniker, I read another Harry Potter inspired term used be some geocachers; 'Dursleys'. I gathered that the meaning here was that of the obnoxious non-geocacher who, upon stumbling upon a cache, can't seem to respect or entirely ignores the printed information regarding the cache ('If you find this, don't move it, etc....') and does what he or she may with the cache. Those that have read the books would understand the unflattering term.

 

"Could be worse...could be raining"

Link to comment
Team GPSaxophone

+Team GPSaxophone

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

Well, the Harry Potter meaning of the word is "one who can't use magic." The ability to use magic is, in that world, apparently genetic.

Not at all!

  • Hermione Granger (top of her class): Both parents are muggles.

  • Neville Longbottom (bottom of his class): Both parents were aurors (powerful wizards)

  • Voldemort (very powerful wizard): His father was a muggle

Genetics had nothing to do with any of them.

 

texasgeocaching_sm.gif Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness bandbass.gif

Link to comment
parkrrrr

+parkrrrr

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

Well, the Harry Potter meaning of the word is "one who can't use magic." The ability to use magic is, in that world, apparently genetic.

Not at all!

 

Both of my parents have dark hair. All of my siblings have blond[e] hair. Genetics is more complicated than you think.

 

If magic isn't a genetic trait, then it can be learned. Clearly the wizards in the Harry Potter universe don't believe that to be the case.

 

pirate.cgi.gif

Link to comment
Pantalaimon

Pantalaimon

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

Think of it this way, in our culture being a witch is a bad thing. In their culture, being a muggle is a bad thing, but they don't burn them at the stake. It is not about race, it is about ability.

 

Oy. I'm really confused on why I'm going to end up contributing to a Harry Potter debate, but I disagree with GPSax's comment above.

 

"In their culture, being a muggle is a bad thing..." I don't think that's true. Some of the "pure bloods" may believe that, but a majority of the witches and wizards seem to look on muggles quite fondly. Like sheep that need to be protected. Or as fascinating subjects to be studied.

 

That's how it seems to me anyway.

 

quote:

"It's not about race, its about ability."

 

Who ever said anything about race? Always playing that race card, eh? icon_smile.gif

 

I think the magic ability (in the HP world) is genetic, like being able to roll your tongue. Either you inherit the ability to do magic or you do not. While you need teaching to hone your ability, the ability to actually be able to DO magic is not something that can be learned.

 

I'm WAY too far into this topic.

 

Pan

 

Swallow a live toad first thing in the morning, and chances are that nothing worse will happen to you for the rest of the day. - Unknown

Link to comment
Dinoprophet

Dinoprophet

Posted
Posted

"Mudblood" is definitely meant to be...classist? Something-ist anyway. "Muggle" isn't used the same way. Even people who hold muggles in high esteem (Mr Weasley) use it. A non-wizard is a common concept to them, so they need a name for it. Just calling them "non-wizards" would, IMHO, be more classist.

 

Flat_MiGeo_B88.gif

Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack

Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams

Link to comment
Team GPSaxophone

+Team GPSaxophone

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Pantalaimon:

quote:
"It's not about race, its about ability."

Who ever said anything about race? Always playing that race card, eh? icon_smile.gif

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:

I've always thought that the Harry Potter usage of the word "muggle" was more than a little racist...

 

quote:
"In their culture, being a muggle is a bad thing..." I don't think that's true. Some of the "pure bloods" may believe that, but a majority of the witches and wizards seem to look on muggles quite fondly. Like sheep that need to be protected. Or as fascinating subjects to be studied.

That's a better explanation for it than racism. Read through the books again. I get the feeling that being a muggle is not desireable, more out of pity for their lack of abilities than anything else. There's always that, "If they found out about our world, they would want all sorts of magic solutions to their problems." (Not an exact quote, but close enough)

 

texasgeocaching_sm.gif Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness bandbass.gif

Link to comment
Doc-Dean

+Doc-Dean

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

Not at all!

+ Hermione Granger (top of her class): Both parents are muggles.

+ Neville Longbottom (bottom of his class): Both parents were aurors (powerful wizards)

+ Voldemort (very powerful wizard): His father was a muggle

Genetics had nothing to do with any of them.

Maybe it has to do with Midichlorian counts and therefore not geneticly based??

 

Somehow "Use the force, Harry", just doesn't sound right!! icon_biggrin.gif

 

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow action-smiley-076.gif

Link to comment
Pat Patterson

+Pat Patterson

Posted
Posted

I like the sheep analogy., and will add this.

 

HP.

Wizards have to exorsize care and caution so that Muggles do not discover their doings.

 

world

GeoCachers have to exorsize care and caution so thast GeoMuggles do not discover their doings

 

In both worlds there are people that have "rasist" feelings towards the others. Thankfully the rasist cachers are rare.

 

Walk into a hiphop or techno rave type club and tell 10 people about geocaching I'll bet you get one that wants to go with you and do one, 3 that think it's ok but not for them, 5 that think it's stupid, . And one that thinks it should be banned or at least controlled by government. That last guy is a dursly <sp> the 7 are muggles and the first guy? he's buying the gas and GPS food. I only have a problem with the last guy, but same as for strangers and kids how do you tell them apart. I stumbled on Gorak 2 days ago while he was just about to read a log. I'll bet he was expecting the worst. My opening line was chosen to soften that problem. I held my gps out in front and said " Well if you Geocache long enough this is bound to happen eventualy ;o)"

 

Pat Patterson

Garmin 12XL

82CJ7 & 79F250

Herd of Turtles 4x4 club

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
Followers 0
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...