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mischiefmonster

FTF before Publication

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I have a few questions

 

1. How did a person write a note before the cache was published?

2. Is it a legitimate FTF?

 

Or is this just being dirty?

Edited by mischiefmonster

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1. How did a person write a note before the cache was published?
When you post a Find log, you can set whatever date you want.

 

2. Is it a legitimate FTF?
It sounds like a legitimate FTF (First To Find) to me.

 

Although it does not sound like an FTFAP (First To Find After Publication).

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This sort of thing is not as rare as it might seem. I've seen the incident you experienced happen here in Michigan ... somebody goes out to hide a cache, finds the perfect spot for it, only to discover that someone else already hid a cache there that hasn't been published yet.

 

Sure, there are mischief-makers out there, too. But innocent coincidence does happen as well.

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Some cachers give the coords to there friends before publishing. Since their is no rule against it and FTF is not a recognized part of the game it isn't cheating.

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I have a cacher friend who seen someone placing a cache as he drove by. I guess there had been a series being published and he kind of recognized that the spot could be the next one in line. He had just moved to that area. He was on the way to the store so on his way back he checked and found it and signed it.

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A friend and I got so good at FTFs that we started predicting when and where future caches might be placed.

I had a premonition of an upcoming cache. I called my friend and we met up and staked out a location.

Less then 30 minutes later we saw someone place a cache container and leave.

We went up signed the log did our happy dance and left. After that FTFs got boring and we went on to better things.

Edited by FunnyNose

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I found an unpublished cache at a megaevent before publication. I was cycling around the area and saw trampled big plants on the edge of the forest next to me. I thought it might have been a cache from which the coordinates were distributed the previous day as I didn't install that file on my gps. Enough other caches around, and I guessed it would mostly be mysteries anyway and I didn't feel like solving. Turned out the log book was empty. It was a cache scheduled to be released later that day. :anicute:

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A friend of mine found a cache (FTF) about 3 years after it was hidden. It was in a remote location and after placing it the CO lost the coordinates. My friend was hiking and went to place a cache and found one already there. He signed the log then emailed the CO the coordinates and the cache was published.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC3YGWV_hubcap-cache

 

Note, the placed date says 21012 but it was places the same time as the others by the CO along the trail, 2009.

Edited by Roman!

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This sort of thing is not as rare as it might seem. I've seen the incident you experienced happen here in Michigan ... somebody goes out to hide a cache, finds the perfect spot for it, only to discover that someone else already hid a cache there that hasn't been published yet.

 

Sure, there are mischief-makers out there, too. But innocent coincidence does happen as well.

Ironic comment since the OP's name is "mischiefmonster." :anitongue:

 

But yes, these stories of coincidences come up now and then.

 

And correcting another post that said that the FTF game is "not recognized," it should have said "not officially recognized." In my area it is well-recognized, and is a nice friendly rivalry.

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As others have said. Assuming it is a cache on geocaching.com, the finder either got lucky and "stumbled across" it, or was given information pre-publication. (Perhaps they even signed the log before the owner hid the cache).

 

The first case just happens sometimes.

 

The second case - whilst there are no official FTF rules - tends to cause annoyance or at least disapproval in the caching community (at least it does here). Nothing you can do about it (unless you are the cache owner).

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I've found a few by looking at travel bug movements in my homestate. Every now and then I see one dropped into an unpublished cache. After a few minutes of researching it I have a location to go look. :)

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In my area, some caches are listed on geocaching.com.au before being published on geocaching.com. Those who monitor the Australian site can, on occasions, get the jump on everyone else. btw, I'm not one of them.

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There is no such thing as a "legitimate" FTF. FTF is a side game with many variations, and nobody is obligated to participate. Those who do participate are not obligated to abide by a particular set of rules or preferences.

 

If FTF is something you'd like to play, you need to develop a thick skin and learn to cope with disappointment from time to time. That's just how it goes.

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:unsure: Maybe they are Psycho or have ESPN? :laughing:

 

I had one which I left on my car and numerous folks signed and I didn't know until I put it out at a later date. Several of us still laugh about it today and this was years ago. :laughing:

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I was out the other night finding a few caches along a hike and bike trail. The caches were placed at .10 miles in order to squeeze in as many as possible. I ended up coming to a spot that fit perfectly between two caches so decided to stop and see if there was indeed a cache there. Yep, a nice regular sized full of swag. Since i found it by being resourceful, i went ahead and signed the log. Called the owner the next day and she was perfectly ok with it. For me though, i felt i needed to go back and find the whole cache (it was the final of a multi) before claiming the find. I did just that after it was published and ended up being first to do the whole cache anyway.

 

I know i was first no matter, but i probably wouldn't have typed those letters (ftf) in my log if i hadn't done this.

 

Allthough the ftf game is not an official part of geocaching, it's still is a fun little sidegame for many of us. Someone claiming a find when they helped hide, were with the CO when the cache was hidden, or who signed the log at home before the cache was hidden is being silly. There are no official rules of course but there are these things called respect and common sense that we should all try to practice.

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Someone claiming a find when they helped hide, were with the CO when the cache was hidden, or who signed the log at home before the cache was hidden is being silly. There are no official rules of course but there are these things called respect and common sense that we should all try to practice.

 

"Respect and common sense" and "following unofficial rules" appear to be one and the same, here.

 

Expecting others to know and follow arbitrary preferences is not common sense.

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I hid some caches on a trail near my home that was an extension of a trail with an existing set of caches. After mine were published, the CO of the other set of caches emailed to request I archive them since she had just placed some caches of her own (on the same day, strangely enough). She then messaged me back and apologized for asking that, but I did offer to move one of mine that interfered with one of hers so that she could publish at least three of her own. In order for me to move it, though, she had to give me coordinates of one of them...so when I went to move mine, I went and found hers and claimed FTF. All I had were coordinates, so I figured it was still as good as anything anyone else would get from the cache page. Less, actually, since she didn't even give me a hint like she did on the cache page. In retrospect, though, I probably wouldn't have written 'FTF' on my log and would have let someone else claim it...but it's not enough of a bother to me to go back and change it.

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This sort of thing is not as rare as it might seem. I've seen the incident you experienced happen here in Michigan ... somebody goes out to hide a cache, finds the perfect spot for it, only to discover that someone else already hid a cache there that hasn't been published yet.

 

Sure, there are mischief-makers out there, too. But innocent coincidence does happen as well.

 

And indeed if you stalk the OP ERRRRRRRRR, I mean look at one of their last 4 finds, you'll see where exactly such an "innocent coincidence" thing happened. Don't worry MishchiefMakers. According to this log I stumbled on, running around to yellow auto trader boxes isn't even Geocaching. :ph34r:

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While there are no "official" FTFs, but I think there's something akin to the common law that's developed over time. Of course, it took William Blackstone years to put together the Commentaries on the Laws of England, and I've got better things to do. But I bet, if you surveyed enough folks, you'd get a pretty good common understanding of what is and isn't an FTF for most people.

 

You'll always get folks on the fora who say "FTF is a sidegame and therefore there are no rules that apply", but I think that's wrong.

 

There are indeed rules. Just no one can yet agree on what they are.

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There is no such thing as a "legitimate" FTF. FTF is a side game with many variations, and nobody is obligated to participate. Those who do participate are not obligated to abide by a particular set of rules or preferences.

While what you're saying about FTFs is true, that doesn't mean we have to stop using the term "legitimate" and can't debate what it means for FTFs.

 

I was out the other night finding a few caches along a hike and bike trail. The caches were placed at .10 miles in order to squeeze in as many as possible. I ended up coming to a spot that fit perfectly between two caches so decided to stop and see if there was indeed a cache there. Yep, a nice regular sized full of swag. Since i found it by being resourceful, i went ahead and signed the log. Called the owner the next day and she was perfectly ok with it. For me though, i felt i needed to go back and find the whole cache (it was the final of a multi) before claiming the find. I did just that after it was published and ended up being first to do the whole cache anyway.

 

I know i was first no matter, but i probably wouldn't have typed those letters (ftf) in my log if i hadn't done this.

Oh, man. If I found a final of a multi before it was published, I would have shouted FTF, in spades. I'd be bubbling with my own resourcefulness. At the same time, I also would have made an extra effort to do the entire multi as soon as it was published, and if I was the first to find it as intended, I would have crowed even louder about that, too. And, on the other hand, if someone had found it pre-publication and claimed FTF, and then I was the first to find it as intended, I would have given them a bad time about it, as I would fully expect to get a bad time if the tables were turned.

 

I did something close to that once. It was a puzzle cache that involved listening to a low power radio show that was broadcast for only a specific 2 hours every day, but I guessed the answer as soon as it was published and signed the log the next morning before the very first broadcast. Then I innocently showed up where the radio could be heard, got into a car with another cacher to listen to it, and returned to GZ with him to see his face when he opened the log, knowing that the 2 of us the first possible finders, and saw my signature already in the FTF spot. I thought it was hilarious, but I quickly told him he should claim co-FTF with me, anyway. The punch line was that my guess was actually wrong, it was just by chance that it happened to produce the correct final location.

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There is no such thing as a "legitimate" FTF. FTF is a side game with many variations, and nobody is obligated to participate. Those who do participate are not obligated to abide by a particular set of rules or preferences.

While what you're saying about FTFs is true, that doesn't mean we have to stop using the term "legitimate" and can't debate what it means for FTFs.

 

No, and we also don't have to stop pleading for sanity to carry the day.

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I was out the other night finding a few caches along a hike and bike trail. The caches were placed at .10 miles in order to squeeze in as many as possible. I ended up coming to a spot that fit perfectly between two caches so decided to stop and see if there was indeed a cache there. Yep, a nice regular sized full of swag. Since i found it by being resourceful, i went ahead and signed the log. Called the owner the next day and she was perfectly ok with it. For me though, i felt i needed to go back and find the whole cache (it was the final of a multi) before claiming the find. I did just that after it was published and ended up being first to do the whole cache anyway.

 

I know i was first no matter, but i probably wouldn't have typed those letters (ftf) in my log if i hadn't done this.

Oh, man. If I found a final of a multi before it was published, I would have shouted FTF, in spades. I'd be bubbling with my own resourcefulness. At the same time, I also would have made an extra effort to do the entire multi as soon as it was published, and if I was the first to find it as intended, I would have crowed even louder about that, too. And, on the other hand, if someone had found it pre-publication and claimed FTF, and then I was the first to find it as intended, I would have given them a bad time about it, as I would fully expect to get a bad time if the tables were turned.

 

I'd have done the same - I'd sign it, and log it online once published, but I would explain how I found it, and probably even claim ftf(the container), leaving the 'full' ftf to whoever does the entire multi legitimately (if I didn't go back to do it myself). Same with puzzles - I keep track of any puzzle caches for which I've found the final but didn't solve the puzzle. That can happen in group caching; I won't stop myself from finding the cache, but I'll make sure I know I didn't solve the puzzle, letting myself come back to it at a later date to work through it... because hey, puzzle! :)

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I was out the other night finding a few caches along a hike and bike trail. The caches were placed at .10 miles in order to squeeze in as many as possible. I ended up coming to a spot that fit perfectly between two caches so decided to stop and see if there was indeed a cache there. Yep, a nice regular sized full of swag. Since i found it by being resourceful, i went ahead and signed the log. Called the owner the next day and she was perfectly ok with it. For me though, i felt i needed to go back and find the whole cache (it was the final of a multi) before claiming the find. I did just that after it was published and ended up being first to do the whole cache anyway.

 

I know i was first no matter, but i probably wouldn't have typed those letters (ftf) in my log if i hadn't done this.

Oh, man. If I found a final of a multi before it was published, I would have shouted FTF, in spades. I'd be bubbling with my own resourcefulness. At the same time, I also would have made an extra effort to do the entire multi as soon as it was published, and if I was the first to find it as intended, I would have crowed even louder about that, too. And, on the other hand, if someone had found it pre-publication and claimed FTF, and then I was the first to find it as intended, I would have given them a bad time about it, as I would fully expect to get a bad time if the tables were turned.

 

I'd have done the same - I'd sign it, and log it online once published, but I would explain how I found it, and probably even claim ftf(the container), leaving the 'full' ftf to whoever does the entire multi legitimately (if I didn't go back to do it myself). Same with puzzles - I keep track of any puzzle caches for which I've found the final but didn't solve the puzzle. That can happen in group caching; I won't stop myself from finding the cache, but I'll make sure I know I didn't solve the puzzle, letting myself come back to it at a later date to work through it... because hey, puzzle! :)

 

On some of my mystery caches, I'll make mention of the first to SOLVE the puzzle as intended. In a few cases, that person is not the first to FIND the cache.

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While there are no "official" FTFs, but I think there's something akin to the common law that's developed over time.

 

It may not has be as common as you think. In some areas, the FTF game is common and competitive and there may be some locally accepted practices, while in many places FTF is just a fact and there is little or no competition. Given the huge disparity in the number and frequency of caches placed in different areas, common ones in one area are just not very relevant in other areas.

Edited by NYPaddleCacher

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Thanks everyone.

 

The person who got this FTF before publication has taken over nearly all FTF in the area and made it next to impossible for ANYONE to get it...unless he is CO. And as such, he is really wreaking any chance for us newbies to get one.

 

Is there much of a lag between it being posted on the site compared to when the notices get sent out? Hubby and I was sitting home one night when the notice went out and by the time we got there 4 blocks away, the greedy FTF geocacher was already there getting back in his car. It couldn't have been 10 mins since it was published.

 

Hubby and I have great fun doing this even though we don't get out much between our work hours. (Hubby won't let me go out without him after a sprained an ankle jumping a ditch.) I wish we had found out about geocaching years ago.

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Notifications (a premium member feature) are sent immediately, so it would depend on your mobile provider and how you have mobile notifications sent, or else how often or how fast you check your email.

We have a number of FTF hounds around here as well, but there's really nothing you can do to stop them unless you can make them consider giving someone else a chance :P (or try to beat them, of course)

If I can't get a cache, sometimes I check back to see who got it, and occasionally I'm surprised if it's in a known FTFer area but a newcomer gets to it first :)

 

When summer comes around, I get my little email workaround up and running again; my provider doesn't have much flexibility in mobile notification content, so I whipped up an automated scanner and dedicated email address so that as soon as one arrives it sends me an sms with a little more detail for a quick lookup.

 

AFAIK there aren't any push notifications with the official geocaching app connected to the notifications you've set up in your profile. I think gc.com does have SMS notifications for some providers though.

I would love to see push notifications via the app, or allowing 3rd party apps to set up push notifications from existing profile settings. :)

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Is there much of a lag between it being posted on the site compared to when the notices get sent out? Hubby and I was sitting home one night when the notice went out and by the time we got there 4 blocks away, the greedy FTF geocacher was already there getting back in his car. It couldn't have been 10 mins since it was published.

 

Here's where you lose credibility in my mind.. you're upset about not getting FTF and then you name call those that do get FTF. PLEASE don't be one of those that believe things should just be handed to you. You need to work harder. Perhaps your ISP stinks.. perhaps your email is programmed to refresh every 30 minutes instead of every two minutes. There are a thousand variables and calling someone greedy is THE WRONG APPROACH.

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There's also the beta test find. I hide a cache then give the coordinates to a friend to ensure they are valid.

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Thanks everyone.

 

The person who got this FTF before publication has taken over nearly all FTF in the area and made it next to impossible for ANYONE to get it...unless he is CO. And as such, he is really wreaking any chance for us newbies to get one.

 

Is there much of a lag between it being posted on the site compared to when the notices get sent out? Hubby and I was sitting home one night when the notice went out and by the time we got there 4 blocks away, the greedy FTF geocacher was already there getting back in his car. It couldn't have been 10 mins since it was published.

 

Hubby and I have great fun doing this even though we don't get out much between our work hours. (Hubby won't let me go out without him after a sprained an ankle jumping a ditch.) I wish we had found out about geocaching years ago.

 

Now i'm wondering if you know for a fact that a person is getting ftfs before publication. Many people that play have things set that enable them to go for a cache just seconds after they're published. You may think "no way", but it can be done. Also, even if you have notifications set, yours may come in later than others.

 

On being greedy,,, please don't go there. Do you think someone should actually back off to allow you a ftf? Would you really feel good claiming ftf on a cache that you know was "given" to you? As with most things in life, you're probably going to have to work for it if you want it. The ftf game can be a lot of fun and can add some great camaraderie,,, if you don't take it too seriously.

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There's also the beta test find. I hide a cache then give the coordinates to a friend to ensure they are valid.

Thanks! Nice of you. Hopefully he's not claiming the FTF too.

 

We stopped the FTF side-game after realizing we were the beta testers.

Horrible coords (if the cache was even there..) happened often.

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There's also the beta test find. I hide a cache then give the coordinates to a friend to ensure they are valid.

Thanks! Nice of you. Hopefully he's not claiming the FTF too.

 

We stopped the FTF side-game after realizing we were the beta testers.

Horrible coords (if the cache was even there..) happened often.

 

I hope he is claiming the FTF. :drama:

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This sort of thing is not as rare as it might seem. I've seen the incident you experienced happen here in Michigan ... somebody goes out to hide a cache, finds the perfect spot for it, only to discover that someone else already hid a cache there that hasn't been published yet.

 

Sure, there are mischief-makers out there, too. But innocent coincidence does happen as well.

 

That's what you call a "Brute Force" find. Had done one myself, lugging an ammo can around all day. Found the perfect spot -- with a curious pile of sticks already there.

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I had this happen last year. It was listed, then disabled as it was still private property. But, several of our local FTF hounds found it before it was enabled. When it was enabled, I went over and posted "Cache was "enabled" 8:44 am, 6/1, and {*FTF*} after being enabled at 9:12 am, 6/1." I knew where it was, but waited.

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There's also the beta test find. I hide a cache then give the coordinates to a friend to ensure they are valid.

When my caching buddy and I hide caches for the local annual caching event, we beta test each others caches.

We claim finds on each others caches after the respective FTF's have been rightfully claimed.

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When my caching buddy and I hide caches for the local annual caching event, we beta test each others caches.

We claim finds on each others caches after the respective FTF's have been rightfully claimed.

I personally wouldn't care... if I was first to find a cache that had been beta-test-FTF'd, I'd still claim FTF, post-beta test. "FTF" is entirely arbitrary, make of it what you want. You have keep your own list anyway, if you desire to do so, so what does it matter what others think, or what others do?

There's a generally accepted definition of ftf, but there are so many nuances and exceptions and contexts that it pretty much gets thrown out the window. No one loses points if they're not actually ftf; the only thing you risk losing by claiming an ftf controversially is community rapport (and only of community that also cares what other people do) :P

 

Now of course you can choose to be mindful of others' opinions and definitions, so it sure it nice of you not to claim ftf even though you beta tested; it makes it more likely to avoid drama from the post-publish FTFers :)

 

Anyway, point is, for my part, I'll claim FTF even if it's already claimed by beta testers, and extra-define it if it's not what most consider the generally accepted definition of first-to-find. Try, try to avoid unnecessary drama :P

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The person who got this FTF before publication has taken over nearly all FTF in the area and made it next to impossible for ANYONE to get it...

Ask him how he does it. He might have a trick. He might just have a better provider. He's a friend (or should be), not an enemy. He might give you some tips that help. He might call you and ask you to join him for FTF on a cache you haven't heard about yet. He might realize that he's hogging all the FTF, or you might get friendly enough to talk him into giving everyone else a break.

 

Or he might continue to get every FTF in the area. But in this last case, if you make friends with him, at least you can look at it as something good happening to a friend of yours and not see it as something bad happening to you.

 

I don't care much for raw competition, but I enjoy friendly competition even if I get beat every time.

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The person who got this FTF before publication has taken over nearly all FTF in the area and made it next to impossible for ANYONE to get it...

Ask him how he does it. He might have a trick. He might just have a better provider. He's a friend (or should be), not an enemy. He might give you some tips that help. He might call you and ask you to join him for FTF on a cache you haven't heard about yet. He might realize that he's hogging all the FTF, or you might get friendly enough to talk him into giving everyone else a break.

 

Or he might continue to get every FTF in the area. But in this last case, if you make friends with him, at least you can look at it as something good happening to a friend of yours and not see it as something bad happening to you.

 

I don't care much for raw competition, but I enjoy friendly competition even if I get beat every time.

 

I was going to post and suggest that the OP attend some local events, and get to know this very experienced fellow cacher. He's gone out on cache hunts with other folks, so maybe the OP can let it be known that they would like to tag along some time. But one needs to be ready to go instantly if they get the call "wanna go get these new caches?".

 

I think that the cacher in question works at it, and has made caching a major priority in life. It's not like he's going out of his way to thwart others in the FTF part of the game out of spite or competition. It's just that he's more experienced, more prepared, ready to go at the drop of a notification.

 

Experience plays a big part of the FTF game. It's not all luck. That's one of the reasons people can find and log caches before publication on the site.

 

And maybe his IP delivers faster than yours. :D

 

 

B.

Edited by Pup Patrol

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Last summer in the morning I had pulled up the local geocaching map with my finds on it and saw a cache that hadn't been published yet but was on the map. I was able to click on it and get the coords however it had not been published yet. I did a search via my zip code as well and it didn't come up, only on the map view did it show. It was officially published within the hour but I was able to get the FTF before it came out. Not sure if all caches show up that way and I admit that it was a fluke and quite ironic that I had seen it on the map first before being published but still managed the FTF.

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Thanks everyone.

 

The person who got this FTF before publication has taken over nearly all FTF in the area and made it next to impossible for ANYONE to get it...unless he is CO. And as such, he is really wreaking any chance for us newbies to get one.

 

Is there much of a lag between it being posted on the site compared to when the notices get sent out? Hubby and I was sitting home one night when the notice went out and by the time we got there 4 blocks away, the greedy FTF geocacher was already there getting back in his car. It couldn't have been 10 mins since it was published.

 

Hubby and I have great fun doing this even though we don't get out much between our work hours. (Hubby won't let me go out without him after a sprained an ankle jumping a ditch.) I wish we had found out about geocaching years ago.

 

If it takes you 10 minutes to get to GZ 4 block away your odds of getting FTF are slim. If your email is not set up to push you're losing valuable time. If you have more to do then put on your shoes and grab your keys you're losing time. It all adds up.

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What the OP could do is to arrange for a relative to hide several caches with the FTF spot already filled out with a username of someone nonexistent to see how the FTF hound reacts. Pre sign yourself as second to find, and don't claim anything, to avoid any thoughts of impropriety. Do this several times and act as if you just missed the FTF. :P

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If it takes you 10 minutes to get to GZ 4 block away your odds of getting FTF are slim.

 

That may be the case in your area but it's far from universal. A few years ago I got an email notification for a cache that was about a 5 minute walk from my office (and about 50' from where my car was parked). I took 2-3 minutes to finish something up and walked over to grab it. Not only was I second to find but the FTF was no where in sight (her office was actually closer than mine) but she had posted her found it log by the time I got back to my office. In another case there was a cache in a fairly busy parking lot along probably the most heavily traveled road in town. I found it a day and a half after it was published and still got FTF. In still another case, a cache was published on a Thursday morning. I left for the airport the following morning. Four airplanes and 9400 miles traveled later I took a cab to a really nice public park and signed the blank log sheet Sunday afternoon.

 

For me, the best way to get a FTF on a cache is to search for caches for which there isn't a huge competition to get there first and that usually means traveling more than 4 blocks from home.

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If it takes you 10 minutes to get to GZ 4 block away your odds of getting FTF are slim.

 

That may be the case in your area but it's far from universal. A few years ago I got an email notification for a cache that was about a 5 minute walk from my office (and about 50' from where my car was parked). I took 2-3 minutes to finish something up and walked over to grab it. Not only was I second to find but the FTF was no where in sight (her office was actually closer than mine) but she had posted her found it log by the time I got back to my office. In another case there was a cache in a fairly busy parking lot along probably the most heavily traveled road in town. I found it a day and a half after it was published and still got FTF. In still another case, a cache was published on a Thursday morning. I left for the airport the following morning. Four airplanes and 9400 miles traveled later I took a cab to a really nice public park and signed the blank log sheet Sunday afternoon.

 

For me, the best way to get a FTF on a cache is to search for caches for which there isn't a huge competition to get there first and that usually means traveling more than 4 blocks from home.

 

If a cache is 4 blocks away from someone's residence odds are it low low terrain cache. In 10 minutes I could see an FTF hound making it to GZ and finding the cache from up to 5 miles away so if there are any FTF hounds within 5 miles you need to be quicker and obviously that's the case in the OPs area.

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If it takes you 10 minutes to get to GZ 4 block away your odds of getting FTF are slim.

 

That may be the case in your area but it's far from universal. A few years ago I got an email notification for a cache that was about a 5 minute walk from my office (and about 50' from where my car was parked). I took 2-3 minutes to finish something up and walked over to grab it. Not only was I second to find but the FTF was no where in sight (her office was actually closer than mine) but she had posted her found it log by the time I got back to my office. In another case there was a cache in a fairly busy parking lot along probably the most heavily traveled road in town. I found it a day and a half after it was published and still got FTF. In still another case, a cache was published on a Thursday morning. I left for the airport the following morning. Four airplanes and 9400 miles traveled later I took a cab to a really nice public park and signed the blank log sheet Sunday afternoon.

 

For me, the best way to get a FTF on a cache is to search for caches for which there isn't a huge competition to get there first and that usually means traveling more than 4 blocks from home.

 

Yeah, we nerd out over FTFs in remote places where we like to go camping. Other than that, we don't usually bother.

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If it takes you 10 minutes to get to GZ 4 block away your odds of getting FTF are slim.

 

That may be the case in your area but it's far from universal. A few years ago I got an email notification for a cache that was about a 5 minute walk from my office (and about 50' from where my car was parked). I took 2-3 minutes to finish something up and walked over to grab it. Not only was I second to find but the FTF was no where in sight (her office was actually closer than mine) but she had posted her found it log by the time I got back to my office. In another case there was a cache in a fairly busy parking lot along probably the most heavily traveled road in town. I found it a day and a half after it was published and still got FTF. In still another case, a cache was published on a Thursday morning. I left for the airport the following morning. Four airplanes and 9400 miles traveled later I took a cab to a really nice public park and signed the blank log sheet Sunday afternoon.

 

For me, the best way to get a FTF on a cache is to search for caches for which there isn't a huge competition to get there first and that usually means traveling more than 4 blocks from home.

 

If a cache is 4 blocks away from someone's residence odds are it low low terrain cache. In 10 minutes I could see an FTF hound making it to GZ and finding the cache from up to 5 miles away so if there are any FTF hounds within 5 miles you need to be quicker and obviously that's the case in the OPs area.

 

You missed my point. If your goal is the have an opportunity to get a FTF on as may caches as possible the getting out of the house as soon as possible will increase your odds. However, if you want to increase your chances of just getting *a* FTF then searching for caches which aren't going to get a lot of competition for FTF is probably going to provide more success, and that may mean not trying to get FTF on a cache 4 blocks from home.

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A few years ago a powertrail was announced for a Megaevent in Denmark. Clever cachers guessed where that trail will be placed (along a famous cycle route or something like that) and went on a FTF hunt prior to publication. Once the trail was published a substantial part of the FTF were gone already. I think the organizers weren't too happy.

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FTF is a statement of fact. First. To. Find. It doesn't matter if it was before or after publication, or if the cacher had inside information, or if they stalked a cacher while they hid it, or followed footprints in the snow. It's not something to claim or give away.

 

When people complain that the FTF hounds are greedy and aren't giving others a chance, it makes me wonder what those people really want. Would you really want a FTF only because the competition gave it to you? FTF is most fun when you come across a group of other cachers and you are all feverishly looking for a well hidden cache. Or when you go out, find the cache, and come across others on the way back to the trail head.

 

I have about 80-100 FTFs before publication from many years ago, using information that was public to anybody who knew where to look, but most didn't know about. After a while going for those lost the fun, as I knew I could get FTF pre publication without any competition, and what was the point?

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FTF is a statement of fact. First. To. Find. It doesn't matter if it was before or after publication, or if the cacher had inside information, or if they stalked a cacher while they hid it, or followed footprints in the snow. It's not something to claim or give away.

 

When people complain that the FTF hounds are greedy and aren't giving others a chance, it makes me wonder what those people really want. Would you really want a FTF only because the competition gave it to you? FTF is most fun when you come across a group of other cachers and you are all feverishly looking for a well hidden cache. Or when you go out, find the cache, and come across others on the way back to the trail head.

 

I have about 80-100 FTFs before publication from many years ago, using information that was public to anybody who knew where to look, but most didn't know about. After a while going for those lost the fun, as I knew I could get FTF pre publication without any competition, and what was the point?

By using the position of TBs placed in the new hides? :rolleyes:

 

That's clever, although against the intentions of most COs.

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A few years ago a powertrail was announced for a Megaevent in Denmark. Clever cachers guessed where that trail will be placed (along a famous cycle route or something like that) and went on a FTF hunt prior to publication. Once the trail was published a substantial part of the FTF were gone already. I think the organizers weren't too happy.

I bet they weren't happy, but one way or another, it was the organizers themselves that supplied enough information for those clever cachers to find the caches. It's just a case on the far end of the spectrum of the battle of wits between hider and seeker. I'm guessing that if they try it again, they won't be so obvious about their plans.

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By using the position of TBs placed in the new hides? :rolleyes:

 

Nope. Used to be a better way that worked on any cache. It was fun when first discovered, but the FTF game became boring when I could get FTF on any non-puzzle cache when there was no competition.

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