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mischiefmonster

FTF before Publication

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Thanks everyone.

 

The person who got this FTF before publication has taken over nearly all FTF in the area and made it next to impossible for ANYONE to get it...unless he is CO. And as such, he is really wreaking any chance for us newbies to get one.

 

Is there much of a lag between it being posted on the site compared to when the notices get sent out? Hubby and I was sitting home one night when the notice went out and by the time we got there 4 blocks away, the greedy FTF geocacher was already there getting back in his car. It couldn't have been 10 mins since it was published.

 

Hubby and I have great fun doing this even though we don't get out much between our work hours. (Hubby won't let me go out without him after a sprained an ankle jumping a ditch.) I wish we had found out about geocaching years ago.

 

it's simple, this horrid FTF thief must be a reviewer. :ph34r:

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Was at a local event and a bunch of us got ones placed in the park. While walking back to the picnic tables, we spotted a well known cacher standing by a roadside sign. As soon as he left, we ran over and signed the log. The local we had it signed before he submitted it on his iPhone. We told the local reviewer (who was also at the event) that this cacher was going to submit a cache and we had already found it! The cache was active later in the day when the reviewer got home.

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FTF = First Time Found (that cache).

 

Every consequent visit to the same cache is simply 'Found' without FTF...

 

(joking)

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FTF = First Time Found (that cache).

 

Every consequent visit to the same cache is simply 'Found' without FTF...

heh, that could really mess people up. Gotta try that ;)

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FTF = First Time Found (that cache).

 

Every consequent visit to the same cache is simply 'Found' without FTF...

heh, that could really mess people up. Gotta try that ;)

There were a few hilarious caches I found "back when" which encouraged "everyone to log a FTF of some kind". I might have to give this a shot some day!~ LOL

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On 2/11/2015 at 3:40 AM, wmpastor said:

And correcting another post that said that the FTF game is "not recognized," it should have said "not officially recognized." In my area it is well-recognized, and is a nice friendly rivalry.

It is well recognized in my area too. So much that OCs leave prizes for FTFs! 

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8 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

It is well recognized in my area too. So much that OCs leave prizes for FTFs! 

 

Geocachers and  Groundspeak recognize that FTF exists.  It's a statement of fact.  Someone must be first to find (assuming the cache is found at least once).  However,  while the FTF game does exist in some areas, it's not universally played the same way everywhere (remember, this is a globally played game).  In some areas while FTF may be a fact, it's not a competition as it is in some areas.   More importantly,  there is no official authoritative source for who is FTF on a cache.  Groundspeak doesn't keep track, nor will arbitrate any disputes for who is FTF on a cache.  Anyone that chooses to play the FTF game can keep track of their FTF's in any manner they wish.  You can have your list and I can have mine and there is nothing that can prevent both of us from claiming to be FTF on the same cache.  Nothing about the FTF game is enforceable.

 

The first to log a cache online is meaningless in determining FTF.    While some people might log their find online after finding the physical cache,  those that use a GPS don't and some just before to wait until they get home to log their finds for the day.  Some might be days or weeks behind in their logging.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

The first to log a cache online is meaningless in determining FTF.    While some people might log their find online after finding the physical cache,  those that use a GPS don't and some just before to wait until they get home to log their finds for the day.  Some might be days or weeks behind in their logging.  

 

 

 

I attended a Mega in 2018 where they put out a bunch of new caches. This Mega happens to take place in my home town every year. Once we all split up to start finding the caches, I strategically chose one that was somewhat out of the way of the natural main loop to get all the caches, GC7NT54, with intent of being FTF. Sure enough, I got there first and inked the completely empty logbook. I then got on my app to be the first to log online, as well, before an onslaught of other Mega-attendees logged it, and much to my surprise, someone had already logged a find online! I was rather distressed for a minute there, thinking I may have made a mistake, but no, there was really no way anyone could have gotten there faster than me, I was pretty quick out of the parking lot, and also the logbook was completely empty. It appears to me that the person who logged it online ahead of me...may not really understand how geocaching works. I've kept this one as an FTF on my list.

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1 hour ago, Korichnovui said:

 

I attended a Mega in 2018 where they put out a bunch of new caches. This Mega happens to take place in my home town every year. Once we all split up to start finding the caches, I strategically chose one that was somewhat out of the way of the natural main loop to get all the caches, GC7NT54, with intent of being FTF. Sure enough, I got there first and inked the completely empty logbook. I then got on my app to be the first to log online, as well, before an onslaught of other Mega-attendees logged it, and much to my surprise, someone had already logged a find online! I was rather distressed for a minute there, thinking I may have made a mistake, but no, there was really no way anyone could have gotten there faster than me, I was pretty quick out of the parking lot, and also the logbook was completely empty. It appears to me that the person who logged it online ahead of me...may not really understand how geocaching works. I've kept this one as an FTF on my list.

If it's a FTF I tend to photograph the log to show my signature (and the signatures of any who shared the FTF with me) to be the only log(s) there on an otherwise empty log. Then all you needed to do is add that to your log and that would have said it all. Everyone could see the other person is lying, without naming names. If you liked to make the situation cleaner you could have written you were alone, or mentioned the names of all who shared this FTF with you. That's what I would do.

I also sometimes photograph a log (showing my signature) if the signature of last person who claimed a find is nowhere to be seen. I don't mention their name, as the photograph shows their signature is missing. I might however say, first find since (date of last signature on paper log). Then it's up to the CO to take what action they want to do. If I were the CO I would investigate.

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1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

If it's a FTF I tend to photograph the log to show my signature (and the signatures of any who shared the FTF with me) to be the only log(s) there on an otherwise empty log. Then all you needed to do is add that to your log and that would have said it all. Everyone could see the other person is lying, without naming names. If you liked to make the situation cleaner you could have written you were alone, or mentioned the names of all who shared this FTF with you. That's what I would do.

 

Even that's not infallible. Back in 2017 a new cache was published near home. I rode my bike over, got there first, found it and, with no clear indication which end of the logbook was the front (the printing was such as it looked the same from either end), I signed what I took to be the top page. As I was walking back to my bike another familiar cacher arrived. She saw an empty car park, signed what she thought was the front of the log and, when she saw me, thought I must have just arrived. Confusion reigned when we both logged FTFs until we figured out what had happened and had a good laugh about it. A few days later another nearby cache was published so I held back to make sure she got there first on that one.

 

DSC_0197_s.jpg.edd105b3af7158656d1e164e1dbccf2d.jpg

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19 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Even that's not infallible. Back in 2017 a new cache was published near home. I rode my bike over, got there first, found it and, with no clear indication which end of the logbook was the front (the printing was such as it looked the same from either end), I signed what I took to be the top page. As I was walking back to my bike another familiar cacher arrived. She saw an empty car park, signed what she thought was the front of the log and, when she saw me, thought I must have just arrived. Confusion reigned when we both logged FTFs until we figured out what had happened and had a good laugh about it. A few days later another nearby cache was published so I held back to make sure she got there first on that one.

 

DSC_0197_s.jpg.edd105b3af7158656d1e164e1dbccf2d.jpg

I would check the log for signatures, both ends, etc. Same with going to a cache and not seeing the last person's signature as the last log. I don't presume that someone signed in order. That was nice of you allowing her to log first.

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6 hours ago, Korichnovui said:

 

I attended a Mega in 2018 where they put out a bunch of new caches. This Mega happens to take place in my home town every year. Once we all split up to start finding the caches, I strategically chose one that was somewhat out of the way of the natural main loop to get all the caches, GC7NT54, with intent of being FTF. Sure enough, I got there first and inked the completely empty logbook. I then got on my app to be the first to log online, as well, before an onslaught of other Mega-attendees logged it, and much to my surprise, someone had already logged a find online! I was rather distressed for a minute there, thinking I may have made a mistake, but no, there was really no way anyone could have gotten there faster than me, I was pretty quick out of the parking lot, and also the logbook was completely empty. It appears to me that the person who logged it online ahead of me...may not really understand how geocaching works. I've kept this one as an FTF on my list.

 

There's a local group that has events at the same locations.  Every few years, they will archive all the caches at a location, and hide new ones in the same locations for the event that would published during or after the event.  Then give out the coords at the event.  So, for one event location, I remembered where one of the caches would be hidden.  Stopped by the day before the event, and signed the log.  Not the first to log online, since I use a GPSr.  But I backdated the log to the day I found it.

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Obviously there are no rules but if you take FTF to be after it has been published (because logically it is just a cache until a reviewer accepts it as a geocache) then I don't think it should be unreasonable for the FTF to be the first to sign the paper AND online logs where reception is available, or provide a find time on the paper log 

 

Otherwise especially with astute local reviewers like mine who reliably publish caches quickly at certain times it would be easy for it to become very clique and not allow all members equal opportunity.

 

I saw a cache recently where there was a FTF log simply stating "early evening" with no corresponding online log.

 

Partly it is a matter of consideration too, I know some FTF hounds will head out late evening in poor weather to get a FTF. I would guess almost all cachers now have smartphones and even a "FTF log to follow" seems reasonable.

 

I say that as someone with kids with minimal interest in finding first. However, as a CO I would hope that a new premium member would have equal chance of FTF on my caches.

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28 minutes ago, daddybeth said:

 I don't think it should be unreasonable for the FTF to be the first to sign the paper

 

Exactly!

 

And... where you? ;)

 

 

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1 hour ago, daddybeth said:

However, as a CO I would hope that a new premium member would have equal chance of FTF on my caches.

 

Why only a new PM? If it's some kind of race everyone should have the same chance...

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, frostengel said:

 

Why only a new PM? If it's some kind of race everyone should have the same chance...

Because people who aren't PMs don't get notifications of new caches.

 

Which I think it is a reasonable PM benefit, because running notification services does come at a cost to GS

Edited by daddybeth

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2 minutes ago, daddybeth said:

Because people who aren't PMs don't get notifications of new caches.

 

Which I think it is a reasonable PM benefit, because running notification services does come at a cost to GS

 

I prefer the cachers that hide nice caches for me to find not those who pay to Groundspeak.

I know that (and why) non-PM cachers have little chances to get the FTFs (some of my first FTFs were as "normal" member :-)) but that's more of a system failure not a reasonable benefit in the FTF hunt. I just could not understand a cache owner want only PMs to make FTF on his (or her) caches.

 

By the way funny enough that most cachers  think that instand notifications are fur new publishs only while for example notifications on DNF and needs maintenance are often much more helpful.

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1 hour ago, on4bam said:

Exactly!

 

And... where you? ;)

 

 

What if they sign the piece of paper before it was published? Are they still the first to find the geocache, or the first to find a cache?

 

After all, I could win a 100m race against Usain Bolt if I set off as soon as I got the the blocks whilst everyone else waited for the gun. But I'm not sure I'd be recognised as first place.

 

I have no issue in someone claiming FTF with a time recorded on the paper log, so that the CO can verify it is after publication time, then an online log after. But not only a paper log with no time.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, frostengel said:

 

I prefer the cachers that hide nice caches for me to find not those who pay to Groundspeak.

I know that (and why) non-PM cachers have little chances to get the FTFs (some of my first FTFs were as "normal" member :-)) but that's more of a system failure not a reasonable benefit in the FTF hunt. I just could not understand a cache owner want only PMs to make FTF on his (or her) caches.

 

By the way funny enough that most cachers  think that instand notifications are fur new publishs only while for example notifications on DNF and needs maintenance are often much more helpful.

I do use notifications much more extensively :)

 

I also agree that *ideally* notifications should be free to everyone, I just know what realistically the system that GS uses which seems to be in near-real time is pretty resource intensive. If you opened that to everyone then very likely you would be sending billions of emails to people who probably have no interest in receiving them. At least by limiting them to PMs you can more reliably predict you aren't wasting money (and of course damaging the environment we're all enjoying whilst caching).

 

I do agree with you that there seems little recognition for people who hide caches and especially high quality caches. But I said that in another thread, that members should have some sort of "reputation" to encourage high quality hides AND people to respect the caches they find. But all hell broke loose :)

Edited by daddybeth

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24 minutes ago, daddybeth said:

What if they sign the piece of paper before it was published? Are they still the first to find the geocache, or the first to find a cache?

 

Yes, they where. Someone got there before you.

 

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3 hours ago, daddybeth said:

Obviously there are no rules but if you take FTF to be after it has been published (because logically it is just a cache until a reviewer accepts it as a geocache) then I don't think it should be unreasonable for the FTF to be the first to sign the paper AND [...]

That's the thing. Groundspeak doesn't own geocaching. They just own the geocaching.com site.

 

A container can be a geocache without being listed on the geocaching.com site. For that matter, a container can be a geocache without being listed on any site.

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2 hours ago, daddybeth said:

Obviously there are no rules but if you take FTF to be after it has been published (because logically it is just a cache until a reviewer accepts it as a geocache) then I don't think it should be unreasonable for the FTF to be the first to sign the paper AND online logs where reception is available, or provide a find time on the paper log 

Otherwise especially with astute local reviewers like mine who reliably publish caches quickly at certain times it would be easy for it to become very clique and not allow all members equal opportunity.

I saw a cache recently where there was a FTF log simply stating "early evening" with no corresponding online log.

Partly it is a matter of consideration too, I know some FTF hounds will head out late evening in poor weather to get a FTF. I would guess almost all cachers now have smartphones and even a "FTF log to follow" seems reasonable.

I say that as someone with kids with minimal interest in finding first. However, as a CO I would hope that a new premium member would have equal chance of FTF on my caches.

 

Equal opportunity ?   Consideration ?     That's not anything I remember of the FTF side game...   :D

 

Logs to let others know you were FTF is a relatively new thing, another "rule" created for people who aren't really interested in that side-game.

If they go for a cache any-other time are they wasting time/money ?

 

What other "game"  can you say "you didn't tell me you were gonna do that..."  ?    :laughing:

 

"Provide a find time" is on every cache I've ever logged, but I feel yet-another "rule" for a side-game that has none is a bit much.

Our first fifty FTFs were as basic members, refreshing "newest" on the profile page once-in-a-while. 

 - That was removed from profiles some time ago.  Most didn't have a sorta-smart phone then, why's it so different now ?

The next year we became PM only for notifications (and received a coin from the site for a "why you are a pm" contest).    

 

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1 hour ago, daddybeth said:

After all, I could win a 100m race against Usain Bolt if I set off as soon as I got the the blocks whilst everyone else waited for the gun. But I'm not sure I'd be recognised as first place.

 

Why not better compare the FTF hunt with being first on Mount Everest? In that case first is first, don't matter when they started the climb.

 

FTF hunting has no official rules but (official) 100 meter racing has. So that's nothing to compare. :-)

 

By the way: Even if I started running three seconds before Usain he would still beat me. :-((

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3 hours ago, daddybeth said:
3 hours ago, frostengel said:

Why only a new PM? If it's some kind of race everyone should have the same chance...

Because people who aren't PMs don't get notifications of new caches.

 

Twice I've gotten FTF on caches that were well outside my instant notification range. One I happened to see that one of my caching friends had a new cache published in the Watagan Mountains three weeks earlier so I went for a drive up there and found an empty logbook. The other was just a couple of months ago when I was looking to see how many of the Virtual Rewards 2.0 caches had been published in this state and saw that there was a new one about 160km north of here, so off I went and got FTF on that - it was another month before it got its second find.

 

3 hours ago, daddybeth said:

After all, I could win a 100m race against Usain Bolt if I set off as soon as I got the the blocks whilst everyone else waited for the gun. But I'm not sure I'd be recognised as first place.

 

Maybe not a good analogy as everyone starts from a different place when the starter's gun goes off. Someone who happens to be close to GZ when the notification comes through (and is not otherwise occupied) has a better chance than someone on the other side of a grid-locked city.

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2 hours ago, niraD said:

That's the thing. Groundspeak doesn't own geocaching. They just own the geocaching.com site.

 

A container can be a geocache without being listed on the geocaching.com site. For that matter, a container can be a geocache without being listed on any site.

They own the term "geocaching" in the sense they own the trademark.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have said before I would much prefer it to be open/non-profit. But IMO most people would see a geocache as something that has been reviewed by a reviewer authorised by Groundspeak.

 

I don't doubt if you placed a few dozen caches and called them geocaches then no-one would care, but I bet if you started listing thousands of geocaches not linked to Groundspeak they would kick off.

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6 minutes ago, daddybeth said:

but I bet if you started listing thousands of geocaches not linked to Groundspeak they would kick off.

Reality says you already lost that bet (even though I'm not allowed to go into details on a Groundspeak forum ;)).

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9 minutes ago, daddybeth said:

I don't doubt if you placed a few dozen caches and called them geocaches then no-one would care, but I bet if you started listing thousands of geocaches not linked to Groundspeak they would kick off.

 

Well, I know that if I posted them I'd probably get nailed, but two sites I checked just now shows you're wrong.        :) 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, daddybeth said:

I don't doubt if you placed a few dozen caches and called them geocaches then no-one would care, but I bet if you started listing thousands of geocaches not linked to Groundspeak they would kick off.

 

You can read more from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocaching#Websites_and_data_ownership

 

http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4804:y4xtxz.2.4

Edited by arisoft
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14 minutes ago, daddybeth said:

They own the term "geocaching" in the sense they own the trademark.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have said before I would much prefer it to be open/non-profit. But IMO most people would see a geocache as something that has been reviewed by a reviewer authorised by Groundspeak.

 

I don't doubt if you placed a few dozen caches and called them geocaches then no-one would care, but I bet if you started listing thousands of geocaches not linked to Groundspeak they would kick off.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocaching

Other geocaching sites are available, and have been for years.

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Posted (edited)

I know there are various other websites, I understand they keep the swear filter on the forum busy :)

 

However, IMO they are not claiming to list geocaches. They are claiming their own names. Obviously GS cannot claim finding things with GPS, the US has been using explosives to do it for decades.

 

If there is no need for review then logically I could go out with someone else who caches. Place a cache. They could then immediately find and sign it because it has become a geocache the moment I have decided where to place it. That, to me, makes little sense.

 

I thought FTF was FTF the geocache. If you don't count publication as the date it becomes a geocache, I don't really know what point you would choose. Certainly it is a cache before then, but of course, most will have a geocaching-branded log or use the work "geocache" within the cache somewhere.

Edited by daddybeth

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1 minute ago, daddybeth said:

However, IMO they are not claiming to list geocaches. They are claiming their own names. Obviously GS cannot claim finding things with GPS, the US has been using explosives to do it for decades.

 

You can read details from here http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4804:y4xtxz.3.2

 

The business for selling goods and information is registered under geocaching trademark, not geocache. Geocache is not registered at this moment.

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1 minute ago, daddybeth said:

I could go out with someone else who caches. Place a cache. They could then immediately find and sign it because it has become a geocache the moment I have decided where to place it. That, to me, makes little sense.

 

This happens often in my local area.  A group places a cache, or various persons assist.  There is only one Cache Owner, but the others sign the log.  Someone who is at the cache site while the container is placed (and helps) has a very easy Find ;).  But they also tend to make the online logs later so that the person who finds it after publication can log "FTF", Finding it after other people found it, and now First To Find.  That's what does not "make little sense". :anitongue:

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4 minutes ago, daddybeth said:

I know there are various other websites, I understand they keep the swear filter on the forum busy :)

 

However, IMO they are not claiming to list geocaches.

 

Curious... Didn't you read any of the links ?    :)

Just a minute produced "The website lists nearly any type of geocache and does not charge to access any of the caches listed in its database.", and one even says, "XXXX strongly discourages caches that are listed on other sites (so-called double-listing) " .

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9 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

Curious... Didn't you read any of the links ?    :)

Just a minute produced "The website lists nearly any type of geocache and does not charge to access any of the caches listed in its database.", and one even says, "XXXX strongly discourages caches that are listed on other sites (so-called double-listing) " .

Hmm, you're right, I take that back. I'm an opencache member but I never realise they are titled Geocaches.

 

So the only reason no-one else can start a Geocache website listing Geocaches is because GS control the database and API. Really interesting.

 

I did know in the early days the trademark application for geocache was abandoned because the (then) owner got loads of stick.

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15 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

This happens often in my local area.  A group places a cache, or various persons assist.  There is only one Cache Owner, but the others sign the log.  Someone who is at the cache site while the container is placed (and helps) has a very easy Find ;).  But they also tend to make the online logs later so that the person who finds it after publication can log "FTF", Finding it after other people found it, and now First To Find.  That's what does not "make little sense". :anitongue:

So they're not actually FTF the geocache then, they're just signing the log when it is placed.

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1 minute ago, daddybeth said:

So they're not actually FTF the geocache then, they're just signing the log when it is placed.

 

This is how I would describe what happened. They hid the cache not find the cache.

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Talking about other platforms....

We had some cases of geocaches double listed on a free website without reviewing process and on geocaching.com. For obvious reasons the FTF on the cache went to cachers from the other platform who then logged their FTF on geocaching.com days later after the cache was published there. I remember some geocachers arguing....

By the way it is still a (side) game, isn't it? :-)

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In my area, there has been a series of events with FTF hunts after the event for caches that are at the time unpublished, scheduled to be published in the night after the event. All attendants are given a link to a file with information about the new caches, and once they have the information, the whole gang sets off for FTF hunt. That means that FTF on the new caches are reserved for attendants!

 

This is perfectly legal, but the local FTF hunters don't like it. They are locked out from FTFs if they don't attend the event, and an FTF hunt with 20 people isn't much of an achievement.

 

FTF is a matter of agreement of inofficial rules. It is a pity when people disagree on them but that is hard to avoid.

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9 minutes ago, Ragnemalm said:

an FTF hunt with 20 people isn't much of an achievement.

 

With probably less than a dozen active cachers in this region now, an FTF race with more than one person in it is quite an achievement here.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, arisoft said:

 

This is how I would describe what happened. They hid the cache not find the cache.

 

In the case where a group of friends hid a cache, and they with the exception of "The Cache Owner" all signed the log (likely waiting til "FTF" before logging their own Find on that same cache), I have absolutely never seen such logs disputed by The Cache Owner, nor removed by TPTB, nor any such thing.  Such Finds are logged and remain "Finds".  They find the cache.  Describe it that way. B)

 

Edited by kunarion

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, daddybeth said:

So they're not actually FTF the geocache then, they're just signing the log when it is placed.

 

The Find logs stand.  They are considered Finds, they never get disputed by the CO.  The CO in fact was there as the log was signed, when it was placed, and absolutely 110% agrees with the Finds, which happened at that moment.  As Finders with icons and Smileys and logs, they Found it.  They in fact found it first.  Finders after that are not "first", or if they then claim to be first, it's by some other definition than what the word first means.

 

So you may be the first person to sign the log.  OR a muggle who finds the cache before publication.  OR you may be first after publication, even after the cache was archived, and the container floated away.  Any and all caches you find "First" can be kept in your personal list of "FTF" caches.  You may be "First" in the way you like, but whatever you do, never publically insist that it "makes little sense" that the first signature is first.   Keep that to yourself. :)

 

Edited by kunarion
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54 minutes ago, Ragnemalm said:

This is perfectly legal, but the local FTF hunters don't like it. They are locked out from FTFs if they don't attend the event, and an FTF hunt with 20 people isn't much of an achievement.

 

It's even worse than that.  I've been at such Events, and at best someone says "I already signed your name" as the group moves on. "...Oh, and what is your name, by the way?"...

 

Or they hand me the log and the open box and they all move on.  Huh.  I wonder where this box gets hidden...?

 

But when it's me "first" at the cache and then a local FTF Hound shows up, it I open the container and hand him the blank log sheet.  So that he gets that FTF.  Because, you know... I don't wanna get my head bit off. :cute:

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2 minutes ago, kunarion said:

The Find logs stand.  They are considered Finds, they never get disputed by the CO.  The CO in fact was there as the log was signed, when it was placed. 

 

I believe I've said this before, but there's a few groups now, where all names of a cache "team"  are in the middle of the log somewhere.

 - The caches were placed by one member... 

I hit a lot with another a couple times now, and we were FTF, but there were many names "before" us.    ;)

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8 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

I believe I've said this before, but there's a few groups now, where all names of a cache "team"  are in the middle of the log somewhere.

 - The caches were placed by one member... 

I hit a lot with another a couple times now, and we were FTF, but there were many names "before" us.    ;)

 

It's common around here lately that group-hidden caches have a blank line for "FTF", for the one who will actually "find" it based on cache description.  Yeah, other signatures are already there.  Some of the "co-hiders" weren't present at the placement, they just made the container, or scouted the area.  The whole deal about claiming a "Find" at all becomes a leetle bit fuzzy at times.  The CO lets the "Finds" stand, so they're "Finds", they aren't disputed.  But that part may best for the "Is This Considered A Find" Threads. :)

 

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1 minute ago, kunarion said:

 I've been at such Events, and at best someone says "I already signed your name" as the group moves on. "...Oh, and what is your name, by the way?"...

 

Or they hand me the log and the open box and they all move on.  Huh.  I wonder where this box gets hidden...?

 

But when it's me "first" at the cache and then a local FTF Hound shows up, it I open the container and hand him the blank log sheet.  So that he gets that FTF.  Because, you know... I don't wanna get my head bit off. :cute:

:D

Many events similar, I have to wait until I see "today" on finds in the area to know which one's we "found".   :laughing:

Just a bit older know, we don't try to do those any longer.  

I'd like to at least know what the cache looked like if I'm claiming it as "found with XXXX group"...

We stopped counting FTFs a while ago, but if I see a FTF "hound" scrambling towards me, darned sure that I'm already signing it.

 - Maybe even stooped over , as if I'm replacing it when they get to me, like I didn't notice.    :P

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4 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

if I see a FTF "hound" scrambling towards me, darned sure that I'm already signing it.

 - Maybe even stooped over , as if I'm replacing it when they get to me, like I didn't notice.    :P

 

Yeah!  You go! :D

 

If I try that, I get on the site later and read that I'm "Co-FTF" with that guy.  "Co"?!! There was no "Co" about it.  Sheesh.  :mad:

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1 hour ago, Ragnemalm said:

In my area, there has been a series of events with FTF hunts after the event for caches that are at the time unpublished, scheduled to be published in the night after the event. All attendants are given a link to a file with information about the new caches, and once they have the information, the whole gang sets off for FTF hunt. That means that FTF on the new caches are reserved for attendants!

 

In my area that counts as "Betatest". Or it should count as something like that. It is the same with "present caches" that you log first.

In my active FTF hunting times it was about the thrill and the race. Will I be first or not!? A presented FTF isn't worth anything (in my opinion).

 

The nice thing is: If the group makes the betatest (in my eyes) and they log FTF (in their eyes) and I come "first" afterwards I can log FTF, too. You can log FTF anytime as there are no official rules. And by the way - I was fourth to find, may I log FTF? Sure! :-)

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1 hour ago, Ragnemalm said:

In my area, there has been a series of events with FTF hunts after the event for caches that are at the time unpublished, scheduled to be published in the night after the event. All attendants are given a link to a file with information about the new caches, and once they have the information, the whole gang sets off for FTF hunt. That means that FTF on the new caches are reserved for attendants!

 

This is perfectly legal, but the local FTF hunters don't like it.

They are locked out from FTFs if they don't attend the event, and an FTF hunt with 20 people isn't much of an achievement.

 

Wow.  You guys are high tech.  :lol:   Our larger events, the EO has a printed paper with the new cache's info (because many here still use GPSrs maybe). 

For a while at those events, the local FTFers have their paper in hand and they're off already.   :D

Most EOs finally realized their problem (maybe with the help of a Reviewer), and now hand out the papers after all actually Attend that event.

 Noticed your start date.  When we started, there were so few cachers, that it was the same four cachers after FTF for a few years. :)

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