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Locationless Day Idea


lamoracke
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I imagine I can do this in the feedback forum, but I rarely look there, and thought it would be nice to see what feedback folks do here before going there. I frequent these forums more than there anyway.

 

Have taken an informal poll of many of my caching friends in the area (none of them are much into forums) and they are in favor. FYI, this includes some who already have the locationless icon, I wanted to ask some in that category too.

 

Here is my idea. We all know locationless caches are gone for good for new caches are now effectively dead. They were last seen in early 2007 as far as being able to log them, or if you were lucky, you had that one virtual converted in late 2007 to a locationless. No new ones since 2003 I believe. Thus, its been over 4 years and many many new cachers, like me, who do not have any of these logged or owned. I know we can't make new ones, nor am I asking for that...we have Waymarking and challenges for that, however, for many of us, we see some cool locationless caches now archived that we wish we could do, partly for the icon.

 

My idea. Perhaps every other year, Groundspeak could enable a select number of existing locationless caches, say 5 for discussion purposes, for a 24 hour period and folks can use that time to log any they see fit provided they log them proper. COs can delete logs as before. If a cacher does not want to participate, they can forget it. If they do, well, they get the fun of doing it, and getting the icon. I enjoy caching for the sake of caching but I will admit, there is a statistical and data part of me who likes to cache for cool numbers, challenge caches, and icons. Of course any locationless caches brought back for a 24 hour period would have to be in conjunction with those original owners as well to be on board.

 

Surely a 24 hour period and 5 selected locationless caches would not cause too much a burden for our servers. I know many here do not give one iota for doing caches based on the icon, whether its the ape cache or a locationless, but there are many, including me, who would love the chance, even if just 1 or a few every couple of years.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Personally I think this would be a very low effort thing to do on Groundspeak's part to make a lot of cachers happy on a given day, and as Sheryl Crow would say, it can't be that bad can it?

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I wouldn't mind this, but...

Waymarks and Challenges are designed to take the place of (among other things) Reverse-Locationless caches.

 

Creating a Waymark in an existing category is 'like' posting a find for an R/L.

Marking a world-wide Challenge as completed is 'like' posting a find for an R/L.

 

I hate to piss in your oatmeal, but the frog has spoken...Reverse-Locationless caches are dead and gone.

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The weird thing is that last year I logged three locationless caches and none of them gave me the icon. :(

 

So there are some caches out there that still don't have a location, yet they also don't have the icon. I don't have any idea what's up with this. Maybe someone can answer that one for me. (Jellis?)

 

I would be up for your idea Lamoracke, but I'm not sure of the point.

So would the time limit be to limit the number of people doing armchair finds on them?

 

I'm afraid GS is against temporary caches, so if I understand your reasoning, maybe we can figure out something that would work for GS too. That would be nice. We all love more icons :)

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I have every icon except this. I started too late and never had a chance to experience let alone get the icon for one. Count me in.

 

would have thought you had one already, being you started in 2006. Course, when I started, I would not have known about them for maybe 6 months unless a friend pointed them out to me. Information overload initially.

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Hey Sol Seaker. Well, I figure a limited time thing would be a plausible idea given the current environment as Azcachemeister probably said in his own way correctly that they are dead and buried. Bringing something back for one day or a very limited time promotion (ie week, whatever) is an exception to the rule. Obviously if they were meant to be logged today, we would still be able to.

 

I know a few folks were able to slip a few logs in when the geocaching app came to life but that loophole was closed quickly. I saw some chap in SE Canada for instance got some in.

 

I guarantee if I crash into Jeremy at an event, would like to at least see his reaction to it. If you do not ask, you do not get.

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I have seen this proposed before on one of the old feedback sites. . . .. . . . But they are gone the ways of Waymarking and challenges.

 

I loved locationless caches when they were a part of this game. Since a single spot could be logged only once, they often required a lot of research and a bit of work, They took me to some interesting locations.. Who would have thought that San Francisco once had a terminal for the Underground Railroad. I found it for a locationless. Would I have ever seen a hand carved door, done by a master carpenter who worked for a famous architect ,except for locationless caching? Probably not.

 

So would I bring them back? Not for a day - it would not be enough time for anything interesting. Let it be.

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I vote no, mostly because I see Groundspeak as a company that looks forward, rather than rehashing old ideas that didn't work so well.

 

Seriously, that's like trading in your high speed internet, for your old dial-up connection....I still can't get that sound out my head ;)

 

I still like playing my Atari 2600 once in a blue moon.

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why? Not everyone will participate and the COs would be on board, they would police their cache logs as before and with a limited period of time, there really will not be a VAST amount of logs to look through.

 

If you look at the existing locationless caches, it seems most logs are valid to me. I do not imagine we have regressed that much to do improper logs since 2007.

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I do not imagine we have regressed that much to do improper logs since 2007.

Check out the "Costume Context" worldwide challenge, and see how many logs actually meet the requirements:

To complete this challenge you must go outside to a public location and take a picture of yourself dressed in costume amongst non-costume wearing people.

After scrolling through the photos, I was surprised to actually find a couple of people that did (that's more than I was expecting). Well over 90% did not. "Improper logging" is rampant, and would definitely be present in your proposal. You'd be surprised by the number of people that would partake. It would take a lot of work to verify all the finds.

BTW, I started caching long after locationless went away, and I would definitely log a find if your proposal were to happen. I'm not holding my breath, though.

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I agree with you A Team, there are a LOT of bogus logs on the "challenges." However, its common knowledge there is no CO on those who can delete them so folks can do them left and right bogus, 200 times over and I doubt any of the logs would get enough negatives to be deleted. Personally, I have given up on the "challenges.". I did like 30 and stopped cold.

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You know, I had this conversation with someone Swineflew. Personally, I think Groundspeak would get more flak for doing that. However, if I looked at myself honestly, would I pay a few bucks for the right to log a certain locationless cache? Yes, I would. I mean, I drive from Seattle to Portland to get Wherigos. I flew to Arizona to do the Jasmer Challenge. I have done every webcam from Vancouver BC to Portland OR. Every trip has a money reality. I pay $12 for my local Geocaching association. I pay for GSAK. I pay for new geocaching gear. I pay for Premium Membership (but don't increase it, I have a limit). So, I would pay for a few locationless cache logs.

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Wait, I just reread a few posts back. There are those of you who would pay $20 for an icon??? Maybe I can sell you one. If you could tell me where to view them, I will see if I have the one you want.

 

Edit to add:

Sorry, can't help. Don't own one.

Edited by BrewerMD
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Funny story. I proposed something very similiar as a member of the GW9 steering committee. The idea was to have a trackable vehicle placed in the event, and you had to find another one to log and get the locationless icon. I'm not sure that the idea ever made it to Groundspeak, but almost everyone I spoke to loved it. Perhaps we should try it.

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There are locationless caches that involve just finding a Sphinx for example. It may be archived, but its still finding a Sphinx whether it was 2005 or 2011.

 

And I would not want the locationless cache to cost money, it was an exercise of entertaining a hypothetical idea. A ferry trip to the San Juan Islands cost $60 if by car. Am sure someone out there would consider taking a ferry to just get that FTF. Why? Because they would enjoy it. A tank of gas can be $60. If someone would get enjoyment out of spending a buck or two or five to get an icon, well, fine. Folks spend hundreds of dollars a month on virtual games all the time...Smurfs, Farmville, whatever. So, really, if someone was willing to spend $5 to enjoy themselves, let them.

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Like with any game, sport, or even life things change and become history. If you were lucky enough to be around when something was popular and you were ale to do it than you earned a place in history. If you started too late or were unaware of the things that were available to you than that's just too bad.

 

I believe it's best not to do as you ask because it will cheapen or decrease the value of that achievement those did before us. You also may have an icon that no one else may get that started today like 10 year event icon. Should we change it to an October 10th icon so they can get a 10/10 icon every year? I don't but that's just me.

Edited by ao318
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Like with any game, sport, or even life things change and become history. If you were lucky enough to be around when something was popular and you were ale to do it than you earned a place in history. If you started too late or were unaware of the things that were available to you than that's just too bad.

 

I believe it's best not to do as you ask because it will cheapen or decrease the value of that achievement those did before us. You also may have an icon that no one else may get that started today like 10 year event icon. Should we change it to an October 10th icon so they can get a 10/10 icon every year? I don't but that's just me.

 

I agree, the 10th anniversary event can't be repeated so you are right, that icon will tempt folks who start say 2 years from now. The 2011 Lost and Found Event was a single day. Cant be replaced, though, other Lost and Found events can happen.

 

But this?

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=a6cf5c51-1530-4b8c-bfa6-5e0b690c3ab6

 

Its a sphinx, then and now. Why not, for fun.

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Like with any game, sport, or even life things change and become history. If you were lucky enough to be around when something was popular and you were ale to do it than you earned a place in history. If you started too late or were unaware of the things that were available to you than that's just too bad.

 

I believe it's best not to do as you ask because it will cheapen or decrease the value of that achievement those did before us. You also may have an icon that no one else may get that started today like 10 year event icon. Should we change it to an October 10th icon so they can get a 10/10 icon every year? I don't but that's just me.

 

I agree, the 10th anniversary event can't be repeated so you are right, that icon will tempt folks who start say 2 years from now. The 2011 Lost and Found Event was a single day. Cant be replaced, though, other Lost and Found events can happen.

 

But this?

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=a6cf5c51-1530-4b8c-bfa6-5e0b690c3ab6

 

Its a sphinx, then and now. Why not, for fun.

Ok, I'm all in. As long as we do this, why not open up "Ape Caches" on the opposite years of the "Locationless". All that would be needed to log the find is a picture of yourself in front of your tv with the movie playing in the background on the anniversary of the opening day of the movie. How's that sound?

 

Again, just my opinion that it's kinda silly to cheapen something that someone has that you don't.

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I haven't really craved the locationless icon but I think the idea has merit if it's well organized by GS as sort of a promotional bonus to cachers for limited periods (perhaps only premium members can log them).

 

I have suggested in the past that Groundspeak might create a limited time exception for a webcam cache that was active only for the duration of mega events. Although webcam caches still exist, their numbers are dwindling and even though I've been caching for five years I still haven't logged one (the closest to me is one about 2 hours away that actually is also a leap day cache placed on Feb. 29, 2004). I've only had two real opportunities to log one. The first was just after I started caching and noticed this funny icon for a cache on the campus where I work but it was archived before I went to "find" it. The other was one in Arizona that I went to find but the camera was down when I got there (but was back up the next day...just before I was heading to the airport). As it turns out, I might have the opportunity to find one in Switzerland in April. I'm going to be submitting a paper for the WWW2012 conference (Tim Berners-Lee is one of the keynote speakers) and if accepted will most likely fly to/from Geneva and take the train to/from Lyon, France for the conference. There's a webcam cache in Geneva that looks very doable. In any case, it seems like a special temporary exception for a webcam cache for mega events would be fairly simple to do, would provide attendees the opportunity to add that somewhat rare icon to their profile, and the photos would make a nice addition to the "attended" logs.

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I have every icon except this. I started too late and never had a chance to experience let alone get the icon for one. Count me in.

 

Note Jellis' join date of May 2006. Your dates are wrong in the OP, all the locationless were locked Jan. 2006. And I have no idea what that stuff is about some converted to virtuals even later?

 

Believe it or not, I think you're probably the 3rd person to propose this in the forums. That's OK though, you probably don't want to see the other 2 threads, they were overwhelmingly against it. :ph34r:

 

For the record, I'll be the one old-timer who doesn't have a problem with this. I say they do it. :P

 

EDIT: P.S. They were last seen in 2010, when a few people figured out you could log them from the Iphone app. :lol: Don't try it, they fixed it.

Edited by Mr.Yuck
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The logisitcs become difficult when you think about how to lock them again. We know not everyone gets the chance to log their caches on the same day they find them. How do you deal with late loggers?

 

I'll also come right out and admit it -- I like the fact that I've been around long enough to have logged one locationless cache and that it has become a rare icon.

 

I also remember what a pain locationless caches were to find. You'd see a cache listing and then have to look around to find something that fit the listing and then scroll through all the logs to see if anyone else had used that spot before. Or, you'd spot something unique and then have to try and find a locationless listing to match it. They were more of a pain than anything.

 

There's something about what to do with sleeping dogs that would apply here...

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Perhaps every other year, Groundspeak could enable a select number of existing locationless caches, say 5 for discussion purposes, for a 24 hour period and folks can use that time to log any they see fit provided they log them proper. COs can delete logs as before.

 

This idea has been suggested several times in the past. It strikes me as unlikely in the extreme to be implemented. Given that the Groundspeak product of Worldwide Challenges is nearly an exact match for Locationless, this boils down to wanting the icon. Which while I appreciate the desire, I can't think for minute that its a reason enough for Groundspeak to do it.

 

For this to work, there would need to be an active owner, who wanted to participate.

For numbers of people to be able to log properly, there are just a few Locationless that it might work for - where the object searched for is really really common (water tower for example, sphinx NOT).

 

Many Locationless were getting hard to log back in '05. Each object can only be logged ONCE. I can't image the nightmare of opening up Locationless logging to the numbers of people that would participate now, most of them clueless as to that requirement. I'd guess that cache owners would have literally a full time job doing nothing but policing logs. If the date were announced, people could prepare the logs in advance, and if it weren't, people who missed it would demand to be allowed to log "late". What a nightmare.

 

Maintaining a locationless was tough, because of the duplicate logging. Some special tools were written for cache owners, but it was still difficult. With the odd way logs load now, I can't image trying.

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vote-no.jpg

 

+1

+2

 

Kind of amused that the thread was front-loaded with the OP's geobuds supporting the idea - you know, the ones he said don't frequent the forums. :lol:

 

Seriously, it's just an icon, let it go.

 

Yes, thank you Hydnsek. I emailed four of my friends and would not have guessed they would all respond and so quickly, I did not ask them to....I was just letting them know about the idea. Sue me.

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another idea, which might be worse or better is to allow selected new locationless caches, say 1 to 5 as a trial experiment for fun. The folks who hate the idea of logging archived caches will be pacified by this. Might be cleaner and would allow everyone a shot to log them.

 

Either way, am sure the idea is a huge long shot, but its an alternative idea.

 

If I was the owner of one of these, I would do the following. Well, assuming its a 2 week period. Let the logs go on for 2 weeks. Duplicates, erroneous ones, etc. After 2 weeks, the listings will be blocked for new entries, but one can still edit their existing ones. Give folks a few days to upload pictures to existing logs, and then after that....start the purge. Personally, I would be willing to do that as a CO. Am sure others would too. I really do not think it would that bad. Sure, a few negative nellies would do erroneous logs on purpose, but the idea is to do something nice that many would enjoy and get an icon. Lets be honest, the "challenges" are not really filling the void for many people with the virtuals and locationless caches gone are they?

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I imagine I can do this in the feedback forum, but I rarely look there, and thought it would be nice to see what feedback folks do here before going there. I frequent these forums more than there anyway.

 

Have taken an informal poll of many of my caching friends in the area (none of them are much into forums) and they are in favor. FYI, this includes some who already have the locationless icon, I wanted to ask some in that category too.

 

Here is my idea. We all know locationless caches are gone for good for new caches are now effectively dead. They were last seen in early 2007 as far as being able to log them, or if you were lucky, you had that one virtual converted in late 2007 to a locationless. No new ones since 2003 I believe. Thus, its been over 4 years and many many new cachers, like me, who do not have any of these logged or owned. I know we can't make new ones, nor am I asking for that...we have Waymarking and challenges for that, however, for many of us, we see some cool locationless caches now archived that we wish we could do, partly for the icon.

 

My idea. Perhaps every other year, Groundspeak could enable a select number of existing locationless caches, say 5 for discussion purposes, for a 24 hour period and folks can use that time to log any they see fit provided they log them proper. COs can delete logs as before. If a cacher does not want to participate, they can forget it. If they do, well, they get the fun of doing it, and getting the icon. I enjoy caching for the sake of caching but I will admit, there is a statistical and data part of me who likes to cache for cool numbers, challenge caches, and icons. Of course any locationless caches brought back for a 24 hour period would have to be in conjunction with those original owners as well to be on board.

 

Surely a 24 hour period and 5 selected locationless caches would not cause too much a burden for our servers. I know many here do not give one iota for doing caches based on the icon, whether its the ape cache or a locationless, but there are many, including me, who would love the chance, even if just 1 or a few every couple of years.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Personally I think this would be a very low effort thing to do on Groundspeak's part to make a lot of cachers happy on a given day, and as Sheryl Crow would say, it can't be that bad can it?

Great idea! It would be nice to get that icon. I started in 2010, so didn't get a chance to log a locationless.

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I have every icon except this. I started too late and never had a chance to experience let alone get the icon for one. Count me in.

 

Note Jellis' join date of May 2006. Your dates are wrong in the OP, all the locationless were locked Jan. 2006. And I have no idea what that stuff is about some converted to virtuals even later?

 

Believe it or not, I think you're probably the 3rd person to propose this in the forums. That's OK though, you probably don't want to see the other 2 threads, they were overwhelmingly against it. :ph34r:

 

For the record, I'll be the one old-timer who doesn't have a problem with this. I say they do it. :P

 

EDIT: P.S. They were last seen in 2010, when a few people figured out you could log them from the Iphone app. :lol: Don't try it, they fixed it.

 

I know of one that was converted from a virtual (August 2006) - GCC349.

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