+Renegade Knight Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 ...remember that freedon of religion includes freedom from religion... No actually it doesn't. It means that you may practice what you believe and so may others. Because of that you have to tolerate their beliefs and how they are expressed to the world just as they have to tolerate yours. In other words to practice your own freedoms you have to tolerate others freedom to do the same. Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I think it is a wonderful blessing that we live in a country where we can have freedom of religion and speech and have these debates. Religious persecution is still rampant in many parts of the world. People are dying for their beliefs every day, while we worry in America about "being offended" and achieving "Freedom FROM Religion", and getting all in a huff about someone putting a bible tract or the like in a tupperware container in the woods. I think this is the same part of the brain that panics when it can't find the remote control, or complains when their McFries or a little too cold. Being easily offended is a sign of weakness. Take that however you would like. I don't care--I don't get offended! That being said, I would also like to give my brief opinion on Bible tracts and the like. If anyone should be offended by bible tracts and religious advertising left in geocaches, it is Christians. No one has ever been converted or accepted Christ by getting a tract shoved in their face, or left in a geocache. It's the junkmail of Christianity. If you want to represent Christ, show love the way Christ did. If you come upon a cache in disrepair, fix it up. If you open the cache and it is filled with junk, replace it with some nice stuff. Treat nature with respect. Treat private and public property with respect. Practice Cache In-Trash Out. Live life in the service of others, helping those who deserve it and those that do not, and if someone is seeking and they ask you "why you do what you do", then share with them the message. A lot more "effective" than unsolicited junkmail. But if someone feels this is how they would like to share the message and spread the word, it won't offend me, just disappointed that there is one less matchbox car, dollar store action figure or McToy treasure for my kids to choose from. Very nice post. Feel free to post more often. If we never agree again I'd learn something just the same. Link to comment
+flask Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 i don't think they're that funny. or funny at all. in fact, i just feel sad over them. Link to comment
+lumens Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Me personally, i'm sick of the religion pushed by the urban atheists, and that is "enviromentalism." I'm happy to ignore all their global warming hypocrisy, and waste gas, looking for geocaches. So a religious pamphlet should be tolerated and not an ACLU pamplet or an environmentalist pamphlet? I would be just as offended/annoyed/whatever to find items whose sole purpose is to promote Islam, Atheism, Christianity, Communism, The ACLU, Immigration Reform, The Democratic Party, The Republican Party or anything else unrelated to Geocaching. If and when I find something like that in a cache I will either dispose of it (if such content is not allowed by the rules) or trade for it and dispose of it (if it is allowed by the rules). I didn't become interested in Geocaching so that I could learn more about The Prophet or Christ or Hillary Clinton. Link to comment
nonaeroterraqueous Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Me personally, i'm sick of the religion pushed by the urban atheists, and that is "enviromentalism." I'm happy to ignore all their global warming hypocrisy, and waste gas, looking for geocaches. So a religious pamphlet should be tolerated and not an ACLU pamplet or an environmentalist pamphlet? Wow, you missed the point big time. <---this means, "I'm making a tongue-in-cheek remark." Link to comment
+Driver Carries Cache Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Me personally, i'm sick of the religion pushed by the urban atheists, and that is "enviromentalism." I'm happy to ignore all their global warming hypocrisy, and waste gas, looking for geocaches. So a religious pamphlet should be tolerated and not an ACLU pamplet or an environmentalist pamphlet? No, actually he said he'd be happy to ignore it (just like all the ther pamphlets). I would be just as offended/annoyed/whatever to find items whose sole purpose is to promote Islam, Atheism, Christianity, Communism, The ACLU, Immigration Reform, The Democratic Party, The Republican Party or anything else unrelated to Geocaching. If and when I find something like that in a cache I will either dispose of it (if such content is not allowed by the rules) or trade for it and dispose of it (if it is allowed by the rules). I didn't become interested in Geocaching so that I could learn more about The Prophet or Christ or Hillary Clinton. 99.9% of the time none of the swag in a cache has anything whatsoever to do with geocaching other than the obvious fact that its residing inside of one. Leave whatever pamphlets you feel the need to. I can ignore them all equally. What I find fascinating is that if you find something (even within the rules) that you disagree with, you deem it necessary to dispose of it. I also find it ironic that while you're annoyed by "items that promote an agenda" found in a cache, you don't mind promoting your "non-geocaching related" agenda in your profile and signature lines. DCC Link to comment
+Thrak Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 If anyone should be offended by bible tracts and religious advertising left in geocaches, it is Christians. No one has ever been converted or accepted Christ by getting a tract shoved in their face, or left in a geocache. It's the junkmail of Christianity. If you want to represent Christ, show love the way Christ did. If you come upon a cache in disrepair, fix it up. If you open the cache and it is filled with junk, replace it with some nice stuff. Treat nature with respect. Treat private and public property with respect. Practice Cache In-Trash Out. Live life in the service of others, helping those who deserve it and those that do not, and if someone is seeking and they ask you "why you do what you do", then share with them the message. A lot more "effective" than unsolicited junkmail. YES!!! Link to comment
+Thrak Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) I would be just as offended/annoyed/whatever to find items whose sole purpose is to promote Islam, Atheism, Christianity, Communism, The ACLU, Immigration Reform, The Democratic Party, The Republican Party or anything else unrelated to Geocaching. If and when I find something like that in a cache I will either dispose of it (if such content is not allowed by the rules) or trade for it and dispose of it (if it is allowed by the rules). I didn't become interested in Geocaching so that I could learn more about The Prophet or Christ or Hillary Clinton. I totally agree............. I don't want to see propaganda of any kind in a cache - even if it agrees with my own views. Edited August 20, 2007 by Thrak Link to comment
+F1sh Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Yes, it does offend me. It offends me that someone has the audacity to attempt to push their beliefs onto the general public. That's the wierd thing about this thread, like the above post, everyone is pushing their beliefs onto the (geocaching) public. That's what people do I guess. Even the people who are saying that people should keep their beliefs to themselves are shareing their beliefs, the irony of the whole thing is amazing. I think what is really being said is that some beliefs are ok and others are not (!) It is really surprising to read over all the posts and see just what side of the argument is the tolerant one, definitely not what I would have expected... The only answer that seems to make any logical sense is "people are free to have their own religious, political, environmental, culinary, blah blah blah views . If you don't agree, trade something else (or just sign the log... I've already got enough junk as it is)." Those who are suggesting that people not be allowed to share or express their beliefs are actually trying to present themselves as the open-minded ones. Huh? There are a ton of things that I don't like. In fact I dislike most things (and that's how I like it). But I recognize that there are a few billion other people on the planet too. - Chad Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I guess it isn't as much an issue in the northeast as it would be in KY. I see it, but rarely. Doesn't bother me. I actually find the Chick Tracts to be hilarious. WOW! I had never heard of Chick Tracts before so I Googled them. I just read the Dark Dungeons one about D&D. It's hard to believe these people exist and even harder to belive that other folks buy into such amazingly bogus material. If I found this in one of my caches I'd simply CITO it. If I found it in somebody else's cache I'd trade for it and then CITO it. I can certainly understand why you find them hilarious but I also find them disturbing......... Now I'm going to have to google them. me, too. me three... Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Well, every group has their fanatics. What would happen if a bunch of geocachers went around to churches on sunday and passed out geocaching pamplets? Geocaching is more fun on sunday than sitting around listening to a preacher! Link to comment
+F1sh Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Well, every group has their fanatics. What would happen if a bunch of geocachers went around to churches on sunday and passed out geocaching pamplets? Geocaching is more fun on sunday than sitting around listening to a preacher! I totally agree, and it's important to remember that fanatics aren't exclusive to organized religions only. For example, some people are fanatical about what should or shouldn't be in caches, and I'm almost fanatical in my dislike of Harley Davidson motorcycles... In answer to your imagined scenario, I think you would be very disapointed to find that people couldn't care less about getting a geocaching pamphlet at church. Many of them wouldn't "get the point", but I don't think anyone would find our hobby offensive (except for ultra-naturalists who might be bothered by all the burried garbage in our pristine wildernesses ). - Chad Link to comment
+Cornerstone4 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Well, every group has their fanatics. What would happen if a bunch of geocachers went around to churches on sunday and passed out geocaching pamplets? Geocaching is more fun on sunday than sitting around listening to a preacher! That's why our church has Saturday evening services as well...our geocaching ministry is out hiking on Sunday! (Well, that's not the only reason they have church on Saturday evenings...but it works for us!) Link to comment
+Cornerstone4 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I guess it isn't as much an issue in the northeast as it would be in KY. I see it, but rarely. Doesn't bother me. I actually find the Chick Tracts to be hilarious. WOW! I had never heard of Chick Tracts before so I Googled them. I just read the Dark Dungeons one about D&D. It's hard to believe these people exist and even harder to belive that other folks buy into such amazingly bogus material. If I found this in one of my caches I'd simply CITO it. If I found it in somebody else's cache I'd trade for it and then CITO it. I can certainly understand why you find them hilarious but I also find them disturbing......... I'd never paid attention to previous postings in these forums about them, but after seeing this post, I Googled them as well. However I seem to find myself in the minority here...since I subscribe to the message. However, I still don't think they are something to be left in a cache. But then again, that is not my style of witnessing either. Link to comment
+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) What would happen if a bunch of geocachers went around to churches on sunday and passed out geocaching pamplets? I think they would enjoy geocaching. A friend happened to mention one day that her church bulletin mentioned bringing a gps unit the following sunday. Apparently her church was having a geocaching outing after the service. Edited August 21, 2007 by Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking Link to comment
+lumens Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 99.9% of the time none of the swag in a cache has anything whatsoever to do with geocaching other than the obvious fact that its residing inside of one. Leave whatever pamphlets you feel the need to. I can ignore them all equally. What I find fascinating is that if you find something (even within the rules) that you disagree with, you deem it necessary to dispose of it. Leave whatever pamphlets you feel the need to??? So the Christians start leaving pamphlets and then some Muslim geocacher leaves a pamphlet and then the atheist geocacher decides to get in on the act and then the pro-choice folks will feel the need to leave a pamphlet and then the anti-abortion people will respond and so on and so on... I also find it ironic that while you're annoyed by "items that promote an agenda" found in a cache, you don't mind promoting your "non-geocaching related" agenda in your profile and signature lines. Thank you for noticing that. I added those links as a tongue in cheek response to Kit Fox's propaganda-laden post which I was replying to. I just forgot to use the official tongue in cheek icon . I'll be removing them soon. Link to comment
+lumens Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Well, every group has their fanatics. What would happen if a bunch of geocachers went around to churches on sunday and passed out geocaching pamplets? Geocaching is more fun on sunday than sitting around listening to a preacher! Exactly! It's about appropriateness. It may or may not be within my free speech limits to hand out a geocaching pamphlet at a church service, but I think it would be extremely disrespectful and inappropriate and I would never do it. Link to comment
+flask Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Exactly! It's about appropriateness. It may or may not be within my free speech limits to hand out a geocaching pamphlet at a church service, but I think it would be extremely disrespectful and inappropriate and I would never do it. i don't know... we were going into my stepbrother's funeral and my dad and stepmother turned to talk to me about geocaching. i talk about geocaching pretty frequently at church. last thursday as part of a ceremony my pastor came to a geocache with her robes and everything. i couldn't find the blasted thing, even though i'd been there before. but she could find it. THAT made a kind of surreal image. i'm against pamphlets of every kind in geocaches because paper stuff sucks as swag. books are ok, but cards, pamphlets, hang-tags... spare me. while i may be intersested in telling you the story of faith in my life, i am also interested in telling you the story of illness and recovery in my life. and geocaches. and bicycles. these things are all intertwined and it's hard for me to speak of one without the others. i have no interest in telling you what to believe. i am not in favor of insulting other people or their religions (or lack thereof) by insisting on their intrinsic inferiority. i've been accused of being a lot of things, inlcuding anti-catholic, anti-semitic, godless, anti-christian, satan-worshipping, liberal democrat, heretical, unitarian, racist, gay, not-gay-enough (go ahead, try to sort THAT out), misogynisitic, radical feminist, un-american, and un-saved. either i get around a lot, or people are all too happy to slap down labels. my favorite was satan-worshipping. i got called that in a newspaper editorial. i am a principled person, and life is complex. sometimes principles don't coexist happily with each other. i don't have the monopoly on answers. i will be happy to consider your answers. if you print up your answers on unlaminated paper and leave it to get mildewed in a geocache, it's rot. Link to comment
+Kit Fox Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Me personally, i'm sick of the religion pushed by the urban atheists, and that is "enviromentalism." I'm happy to ignore all their global warming hypocrisy, and waste gas, looking for geocaches. So a religious pamphlet should be tolerated and not an ACLU pamplet or an environmentalist pamphlet? I would be just as offended/annoyed/whatever to find items whose sole purpose is to promote Islam, Atheism, Christianity, Communism, The ACLU, Immigration Reform, The Democratic Party, The Republican Party or anything else unrelated to Geocaching. If and when I find something like that in a cache I will either dispose of it (if such content is not allowed by the rules) or trade for it and dispose of it (if it is allowed by the rules). I didn't become interested in Geocaching so that I could learn more about The Prophet or Christ or Hillary Clinton. All three items referenced by you are better off not being placed in caches. Like you, I actually agree with not having any "promotional items" or agenda driven items in caches. My caches are filled with childrens toys, and hiking/ camping supplies. I guess I actively promote "child enjoyment" with all the toys, and promote "outdoor activities" with all the other swag items. Of course I have an agenda when I hide caches, and it's called, "Lead by Example, Hide Great Caches in Great Locations." Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 This is what I do, Trade up, Trade even, or don't Trade at all. Link to comment
+Team Cotati Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) What would happen if a bunch of geocachers went around to churches on sunday and passed out geocaching pamplets? I think they would enjoy geocaching. A friend happened to mention one day that her church bulletin mentioned bringing a gps unit the following sunday. Apparently her church was having a geocaching outing after the service. That church had a high % of gpsr owners did it? I find that to be very astounding. Perhaps it was going to be a kinda small outing adventure. Who knows. Edited August 21, 2007 by Team Cotati Link to comment
nonaeroterraqueous Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) I also find it ironic that while you're annoyed by "items that promote an agenda" found in a cache, you don't mind promoting your "non-geocaching related" agenda in your profile and signature lines. Good call. Well, every group has their fanatics. What would happen if a bunch of geocachers went around to churches on sunday and passed out geocaching pamplets? Geocaching is more fun on sunday than sitting around listening to a preacher! You might be surprised how successfully geocaching has been promoted within churches. It makes a great after-service conversation topic. "So, doin' anything after church today?" "Yeah, I'm going geocaching. Wanna' come?" "What the?! Don't go spreading that blasphemous message here! This is a church, for crying out loud!" Actually, that last line would not really happen. And, no, I'd rather be in church than geocaching. It's not an obligation. It's my life. Well, every group has their fanatics. I am a fanatic. I am a bigot. I am an extremist. I love being me, and I wouldn't trade it for the world. Okay, so I've never left a tract in a cache. So sue me. I never want to be tepid in my faith. Call me a freak...please; I love hearing it. You pursue Tupperware. I pursue the nonaeroterraqueous things. Edited August 21, 2007 by nonaeroterraqueous Link to comment
+Trucker Lee Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 ............... If anyone should be offended by bible tracts and religious advertising left in geocaches, it is Christians. No one has ever been converted or accepted Christ by getting a tract shoved in their face, or left in a geocache. It's the junkmail of Christianity. If you want to represent Christ, show love the way Christ did. If you come upon a cache in disrepair, fix it up. If you open the cache and it is filled with junk, replace it with some nice stuff. Treat nature with respect. Treat private and public property with respect. Practice Cache In-Trash Out. Live life in the service of others, helping those who deserve it and those that do not, and if someone is seeking and they ask you "why you do what you do", then share with them the message. A lot more "effective" than unsolicited junkmail. But if someone feels this is how they would like to share the message and spread the word, it won't offend me, just disappointed that there is one less matchbox car, dollar store action figure or McToy treasure for my kids to choose from. HEAR!! HEAR!!! WELL SAID Link to comment
+Cornerstone4 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 What would happen if a bunch of geocachers went around to churches on sunday and passed out geocaching pamplets? I think they would enjoy geocaching. A friend happened to mention one day that her church bulletin mentioned bringing a gps unit the following sunday. Apparently her church was having a geocaching outing after the service. That church had a high % of gpsr owners did it? I find that to be very astounding. Perhaps is was going to be a kinda small outing adventure. Who knows. Our church has about 3000 regular attendees. We have 30-50 active to semi active cachers. When we plan outings, we will get 20-30 folks on any given week. There are many more that have gps units that they use for fishing, motorcycle riding, and various other activities. Some join us, some don't. In February, we used the gymnasium at the church to host the first Mega Event on the West Coast. Yep, we've got a few cachers in the church. Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 What would happen if a bunch of geocachers went around to churches on sunday and passed out geocaching pamplets? I think they would enjoy geocaching. A friend happened to mention one day that her church bulletin mentioned bringing a gps unit the following sunday. Apparently her church was having a geocaching outing after the service. That church had a high % of gpsr owners did it? I find that to be very astounding. Perhaps is was going to be a kinda small outing adventure. Who knows. Our church has about 3000 regular attendees. We have 30-50 active to semi active cachers. When we plan outings, we will get 20-30 folks on any given week. There are many more that have gps units that they use for fishing, motorcycle riding, and various other activities. Some join us, some don't. Actually, Christianity has a lot of parallels with geocaching. You spend your life trying to stay on the right path. You have faith that in the end you will find what you have searching for. You try to treat everyone you meet on the trail in a friendly and accepting manner. Interesting.... Link to comment
+CYBret Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Well, every group has their fanatics. What would happen if a bunch of geocachers went around to churches on sunday and passed out geocaching pamplets? Geocaching is more fun on sunday than sitting around listening to a preacher! Actually, if you tried that at our church they'd likely say, "Hmmmm...this sounds just like our preacher." Link to comment
+Elemaris Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Actually, Christianity has a lot of parallels with geocaching. You spend your life trying to stay on the right path. You have faith that in the end you will find what you have searching for. You try to treat everyone you meet on the trail in a friendly and accepting manner. Interesting.... ..And to follow the right path, you need guidance from above. Link to comment
+Team Greenspeed Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I am merely promoting tolerance, namely a gaming environment that is religiously neutral, where one is not confronted by solicitations and the intrusiveness of people trying to convert each other. Surely we can probably all imagine screeds or propoganda that would rub us the wrong way. Do we really want to give the green light on *encouraing* such items? The short answer is YES! You do not promote tolerance by hiding or ignoring the subject, that only breads intolerance from ignorance. In fact it promote tolerance you do exactly the opposite. You admit that others have views that you may not agree with. tol·er·ance /ˈtɒlərəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tol-er-uhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry. 2. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward opinions and practices that differ from one's own. 3. interest in and concern for ideas, opinions, practices, etc., foreign to one's own; a liberal, undogmatic viewpoint. 4. the act or capacity of enduring; endurance: My tolerance of noise is limited. Link to comment
+Ranster Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Well, every group has their fanatics. What would happen if a bunch of geocachers went around to churches on sunday and passed out geocaching pamplets? Geocaching is more fun on sunday than sitting around listening to a preacher! If your "preacher" is truly a man of God and speaking Scripture (and not twisting it to meet some agenda), Sundays are a great time of receiving the Word and Worship. My family and I currently go to the Sunday evening service at our church and our Worship is fantastic. Then, our pastor speaks Truth and will challenge those (based on the Scriptures) who do not want to live up to expectations. Christians are geocachers too! However, I believe there should not be ANY paper items in a cache. I thought the purpose of puting little trinklets and things was to add extra "enjoyment" to the caching experience. Link to comment
+Team Cotati Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 What would happen if a bunch of geocachers went around to churches on sunday and passed out geocaching pamplets? I think they would enjoy geocaching. A friend happened to mention one day that her church bulletin mentioned bringing a gps unit the following sunday. Apparently her church was having a geocaching outing after the service. That church had a high % of gpsr owners did it? I find that to be very astounding. Perhaps is was going to be a kinda small outing adventure. Who knows. Well that is really special. Our church has about 3000 regular attendees. We have 30-50 active to semi active cachers. When we plan outings, we will get 20-30 folks on any given week. There are many more that have gps units that they use for fishing, motorcycle riding, and various other activities. Some join us, some don't. In February, we used the gymnasium at the church to host the first Mega Event on the West Coast. Yep, we've got a few cachers in the church. Link to comment
+beezerb Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) We have never had anyone actually use them as trade items in any of our caches, just leave them. Also never had anyone remove one or trade for one that we know of. We clean them out along with any business cards if they are taking up to much room when we do cache maintenance. In caches we find we just ignore them unless they are wet then we will remove them when drying out the rest of the cache. Edited August 21, 2007 by beezerb Link to comment
+Too Tall John Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I guess it isn't as much an issue in the northeast as it would be in KY. I see it, but rarely. Doesn't bother me. I actually find the Chick Tracts to be hilarious. WOW! I had never heard of Chick Tracts before so I Googled them. I just read the Dark Dungeons one about D&D. It's hard to believe these people exist and even harder to belive that other folks buy into such amazingly bogus material. If I found this in one of my caches I'd simply CITO it. If I found it in somebody else's cache I'd trade for it and then CITO it. I can certainly understand why you find them hilarious but I also find them disturbing......... Now I'm going to have to google them.me, too. me three...Me four...i don't think they're that funny. or funny at all. in fact, i just feel sad over them. Oh, and after reading this stuff (<- handy linky for those still thinkin' about Googling it), I have to agree with flask. Sad, really sad... Link to comment
+Zop Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Why are people so afraid of religious items? If you are not a believer (I'm assuming most are speaking of Christian symbols), sign the log and move on to your next cache! No one says you HAVE to agree with every item left in a cache. What if I were offended by dice or cards because they can represent gambling? Or, small toys, which could represent the desire to be around young children in an unhealthy manner. I sure someone could come up with a reason to be offended by a geocoin or travel bug. Being a Christian, I wouldn't mind seeing certain items in a cache. If I were to see Muslim or Hindu, etc. items, I would ignore them. Nothing wrong with that. Afraid of religious items?? Not at all. Offended? Maybe. Not so much because of religion in general but more because not everyone shares the same beliefs or mythology. Would you be offended if my son left a satanic symbol or if my daughter left a wiccan pentagram? Maybe not but I'm sure someone would. For me, I'll trade out any religious propoganda and be sure it doesn't find its way back into a cache designed for such a large audience. Jim.. Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Well, every group has their fanatics. What would happen if a bunch of geocachers went around to churches on sunday and passed out geocaching pamplets? Geocaching is more fun on sunday than sitting around listening to a preacher! You would gain some converts from the passion you would display for geocaching. The phamplets would end up in the trash...Unless you explained how they are good for shoving in the face of security guards and other authority types. See phamplets do have thier uses. They spark conversation. Link to comment
+Quiggle Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 religion is lame http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?act=boardrules Some things to keep in mind when posting: Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect. Personal Attacks and Flames will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad, general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated. Keep on topic: Responses to a particular thread should be on-topic and pertain to the discussion. Users should use the New Topic button to start a new discussion which would otherwise be off-topic in the current thread. Threads that are off topic may be closed by the moderator. Link to comment
+Thrak Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I can certainly understand why you find them hilarious but I also find them disturbing......... Oh, and after reading this stuff (<- handy linky for those still thinkin' about Googling it), I have to agree with flask. Sad, really sad... I checked your link and read a few more. As I said above, I can see some folks finding them funny but I also find them disturbing. It's mind boggling that there is an audience for this stuff and actually somewhat frightening to realize that some folks accept such tripe as abolute truth. I'm not attacking religion. Whatever my personal feelings might be, I don't think that type of post belongs in this forum. However, I'm boggled and horrified with this particular type of tract. I can't really express my feelings toward them here but........... I guess the word Bizarre is the best I can do at this point. Link to comment
+Team Cotati Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Actually if you tried that in our church, they'd say......."What in God's name is THAT"? Say, does anyone know the approximate % of the total U.S. population is involved in geocaching? Link to comment
+Team Cotati Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Well, every group has their fanatics. What would happen if a bunch of geocachers went around to churches on sunday and passed out geocaching pamplets? Geocaching is more fun on sunday than sitting around listening to a preacher! You would gain some converts from the passion you would display for geocaching. The phamplets would end up in the trash...Unless you explained how they are good for shoving in the face of security guards and other authority types. See phamplets do have thier uses. They spark conversation. Ya, shoving a piece of paper in the face of security staff is a really great idea, thanks for sharing. Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) ...Ya, shoving a piece of paper in the face of security staff is a really great idea, thanks for sharing. Giving the Geocacher U phamplet to guards, land managers and other types who question what you are doing is advice given widely in the forums. My spin for "shoving it in their face" was making fun of this threads in light of knowing that people do reccomend giving out geocaching phamplets. You are welcome. Edited August 21, 2007 by Renegade Knight Link to comment
+Quiggle Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 While my post above was more specific in nature, I'll also submit one with a broader stroke: Keep on topic: Responses to a particular thread should be on-topic and pertain to the discussion. Users should use the New Topic button to start a new discussion which would otherwise be off-topic in the current thread. Threads that are off topic may be closed by the moderator. Thanks for keeping the topic mostly on track -- let's keep the discussion as close to the intent of the original post as possible: I've noticed a trend, at least here in KY that more and more chaches are having religious items, booklets, etc. in them. I was of the impression this really wasn't allowed. This and a few other topics are hard to keep on track sometime. It might be hard to do now that we're nearing the end of the 4th page, but let's see what we can do. Thanks. Link to comment
+flask Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) but my, isn't it a fascinating discussion? it is the tangential material that informs and colors the responses that are directly on topic. it yields a very much richer and more informative conversation. now that we know this topic has come under scrutiny, is anyone running a pool regarding at what time it will get locked? edit: never you mind why. Edited August 21, 2007 by flask Link to comment
+Quiggle Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 but my, isn't it a fascinating discussion? it is the tangential material that informs and colors the responses that are directly on topic. it yields a very much richer and more informative conversation. Keep it 'caching related, and nobody gets hurt. If you want to stray from that, start a new topic in Off-Topic, if there's not one there already. now that we know this topic has come under scrutiny, is anyone running a pool regarding at what time it will get locked? You can start one in Off-Topic if you'd like -- let's leave the current thread alone, eh? That way it doesn't get locked. Link to comment
+tozainamboku Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I actually agree with not having any "promotional items" or agenda driven items in caches. My caches are filled with childrens toys, and hiking/ camping supplies. I guess I actively promote "child enjoyment" with all the toys, and promote "outdoor activities" with all the other swag items. Of course I have an agenda when I hide caches, and it's called, "Lead by Example, Hide Great Caches in Great Locations." I actually think "promotional items" make great swag. A coupon for a free Starbucks or a discount at a local store make good trade items. And even a pen or refrigerator magnet with advertising on it can better than lots of other things. I wouldn't object to a a magnet with a fish symbol being left in a cache. I also like finding pieces of paper with a religious message on them - so long as it's "In God we trust" Link to comment
+Misha Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 You're allowed to leave religious items. You are not allowed to place caches that are intended to solicit, including for religion. This is correct! I NEED a get out of hell free card!! Link to comment
+Cornerstone4 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I NEED a get out of hell free card!! That's easy. Do you want me to send it to your email addy? It's free. The price has already been paid. Hey, I'm just responding to a plea! It's not an uninvited solicitaion! Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 IMHO, what it boils down to is that many religions suggest proselytizing. (Some even require it.) Having spent decades investigating relative theology, I have reached my conclusions. My beliefs (or lack thereof) are mine, and have been reached after due thought and consideration. I have no problems with much religious symbolism. If you wish to leave a Mogen David, or a pentacle, or a rosary, in a cache, I have no problem with that. What I would object to (Though I have not found any in the caches that I've found) is literature suggesting my eternal damnation for not accepting that your (or whomsoever's) religious belief is the only acceptabe one. That is insulting, and completely unacceptable (to me, at least.) I used to enjoy arguing relative religion with missionaries and proselytizers. They seem to be very closed minded. Arguing the Book of Leviticus is especially fun! No one has been able to show me where the bible has rescinded some of the prohibitions therein. But, alas, when the lady with whom I was arguing realized that she had not converted me on the need to strictly adhere to one verse, while ignoring most of the others, she promised/threatened to gather a group to 'pray over me'. And I had to find a new laundromat. Religion is a very emotional area. There are many strongly felt, and contradicting beliefs. (Not unlike politics.) IMHO, this is why religious or political tracts are inappropriate as swag left in caches. Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) .... If you wish to leave a Mogen David, or a pentacle, or a rosary, in a cache, I have no problem with that. What I would object to (Though I have not found any in the caches that I've found) is literature suggesting my eternal damnation for not accepting that your (or whomsoever's) religious belief is the only acceptabe one.... I'll agree with that. I've never found any religious literature in caches. But if it started to become popular, I could imagine the following scenario emerging: A Baptist leaves a tract in a cache, thinking it's a good thing. Next, a Catholic comes along and finds the cache, gets mildly offended and CITOs out the tract and leaves a Catholic brochure. A Presbeterian finds the cache next, rolls their eyes, and CITOs out the brochure and leaves a Presbeterian pamplet. A Mormon stops by later and figures the best thing to do is to CITO out the Presbeterian pamplet and leave a "Good News" tract. A Seventh Day Adventist is the next visitor, who immediately removes the Mormon stuff and places a SDA tract. A Jehovah's witness comes by, and sees the SDA tract and throws it away, and leaves their own tract.... Jesus happens along later and accidentally finds the cache. He reads all of the log entries and shakes his head, and writes PEACE in the logbook. He removes the last tract, and leaves some olives, and bread. Eventually ants invade the cache. Cache gets archived.... Edited August 22, 2007 by 4wheelin_fool Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Actually, Christianity has a lot of parallels with geocaching. You spend your life trying to stay on the right path. You have faith that in the end you will find what you have searching for. You try to treat everyone you meet on the trail in a friendly and accepting manner. Interesting.... ..And to follow the right path, you need guidance from above. Good one! Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 .... If you wish to leave a Mogen David, or a pentacle, or a rosary, in a cache, I have no problem with that. What I would object to (Though I have not found any in the caches that I've found) is literature suggesting my eternal damnation for not accepting that your (or whomsoever's) religious belief is the only acceptabe one.... I'll agree with that. I've never found any religious literature in caches. But if it started to become popular, I could imagine the following scenario emerging: A Baptist leaves a tract in a cache, thinking it's a good thing. Next, a Catholic comes along and finds the cache, gets mildly offended and CITOs out the tract and leaves a Catholic brochure. A Presbeterian finds the cache next, rolls their eyes, and CITOs out the brochure and leaves a Presbeterian pamplet. A Mormon stops by later and figures the best thing to do is to CITO out the Presbeterian pamplet and leave a "Good News" tract. A Seventh Day Adventist is the next visitor, who immediately removes the Mormon stuff and places a SDA tract. A Jehovah's witness comes by, and sees the SDA tract and throws it away, and leaves their own tract.... Jesus happens along later and accidentally finds the cache. He reads all of the log entries and shakes his head, and writes PEACE in the logbook. He leaves a vial of holy water, some olives, and bread. Eventually ants invade the cache and the vial of water gets knocked over, ruining the logbook. Cache gets archived.... Jesus is a Catholic? Sorry...couldn't resist. Link to comment
Recommended Posts