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Hey guys, I wish that I had checked here first before I accepted his offer of a partial refund. Shipping was included in the cost of the auction but he subtracted $6 from the refund to cover that cost. I was tempted to hold out for the Paypal investigation but then I started to worry about what would happen if he just decided to quit using that account and opened another one under a different name or something. I decided to try and get something out of him while I could, and just counted the $6 as the cost of learning a lesson. I left him some well-deserved negative feedback and by my estimate, he is probably out $13 for the cost of shipping, eBay fees, and Paypal fees. Plus, the seller is now missing one of the writable DVD's from his stack of 100 . I left a message for Garmin's legal department as well. Thanks again, Chad

So the paypal dispute was escalated to a claim and the seller contacted me and offered a refund of all but the shipping cost. I'm thinking I should probably take it. He had been telling me that he was not refunding anything and that I would have to claim it through Paypal, but after I told him that I had contacted Garmin's legal department, this offer showed up. Thanks for your help everyone. This has been a real crash course for me. I used to know nothing about this program, and now I feel like I could spot a fake from a mile away. Thanks again, Chad

Thanks guys, good advice.

The seller said he drives taxi for a living and that is why he has to have the "lifetime map updates". If he was an authorized dealer, the program probably wouldn't come on a generic DVD rw in a coverless case with now registration number or documentation. The clincher for me is when I looked on thepiratebay and saw the program for download with the exact same title, file size and type, and the exact same instructions (word for word). I also left some feedback, warning other potential buyers. Chad It looks like he has pulled his other auctions... obviously he knows what he's doing is not allowed.

Well, I tried dispute resolution with the seller and he declined my request for a refund and added the following comments: "This DVD is original, you accepted the terms on ebay.ca. read you, the description and the conditions. You paid for thelastest map of garmin,.. this DVD perfectly works, I've give you, all the indications for that it correctly works. don't try to reclame sometime, work perfectly." 7/13/2009 23:25 PDT - Seller: "This DVD is original, you accepted the terms on ebay.com. you read, the description and the conditions. You paid for the lastest map of garmin,.. this DVD perfectly works, I've give you, all the indications for that an it work." I have escalated the issue to a PayPal claim, hopefully that will help. Chad

Well, the package arrived today and I was discouraged to see that it was in fact an image file burned onto plain DVD like what you would buy at Walmart. Further, the generic DVD case it came in did not even have a sleeve on it. I compared the "instructions" in a text file on the disk to the instructions on the download page at thepiratebay.net and found that they were word for word identical. I have filed a claim with Paypal and will let you know how it goes. This whole thing has been a nightmare and I am having second thoughts about buying any software off eBay (I've never had a problem with any other type of item). Probably the worst thing about this is that it was a fellow Canadian that's doing this . Chad

Thanks to the help of forum members, I am making some real progress with my new gpsr and recently loaded Ibycus' topo maps - hats off to that guy. One thing that I have noticed is that when I am on the screen that shows the list of closest geocaches, the distances are updated as I move, but the list does not change. For example, on the old etrex I had, I could set it to the list of nearest caches and as I drove from one place to the other, they would move up and down the list as I got closer and further away, eventually dissappearing from the list as closer caches replaced them. However, on the Oregon you must constantly close out of the list and then reopen it in order to "refresh" and see the new caches that you are closest to. I realize that I could just leave it in map mode, but while driving in the car, I prefer the list with the names of the caches and like the fact that I can just click on the name to see the description and log. Oh and one other thing - is there a way to turn off the 'pin' that appears on the map screen when you tap it twice? Every time I try to just scroll around the map, I end up activating the pin by mistake. Thanks for your help, Chad

OUCH! You got it coggins. I feel like an idiot. This is my first time being ripped off on eBay... of course this is the only time I have ever tried to buy software... Chad

Good advice. Thanks Jim

Crap. Well I guess the verdict is in. The auction had a photo from Garmin and it is being sent to me on a DVD so I thought it was OK. "Image file" sounded just as legit as the rest of the jargan and technical terms I have read on the forum

Here is the actual info that I copied and pasted (the format is a little messed up from copying). I couldnt see anything that made me think there was a problem. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Item Specifics - Item Condition Condition: New Brand : Garmin Device Type : Software This translation is provided as a service. eBay cannot guarantee its accuracy. View Item Specifics in original language. Travel North America & Mexico With nearly 6 million points of interest and road coverage for the U.S., Canada, Puerto Rico and Mexico, City Navigator North America & Mexico 2010 delivers all the data you need to navigate North America & Mexico. City Navigator brings you the most detailed street maps available so you can navigate with exact, turn-by-turn directions to any address or intersection. You can also route to restaurants, gas stations, hotels, attractions and more. Powered by NAVTEQ, a world leader in premium-quality digital map data. Displays nearly 6 million points of interest — hotels, restaurants, parking, entertainment, fuel, shopping and more. Includes highways, interstates, business and residential roads in metropolitan and rural areas. Includes detailed information such as turn restrictions, roundabout guidance, speed categories and other navigation features. Gives turn-by-turn directions on your compatible Garmin device. Includes postal code support for Canada. Contains traffic data for compatible Garmin devices that use traffic receivers. Enhances pronunciation data for compatible Garmin devices that speak street names (example: “Turn right on Main Street.”). Navigate the streets in Mexico with confidence using City Select Mexico NT v10. With this detailed data, you can literally travel to a new city, look up hotels, restaurants, and other services, and use your compatible Garmin GPS to guide you there — without stopping for directions! Pay with Only. Minimum System Requirements PC: Windows® XP SP2 or newer 1 GB RAM at least 1024 x 768 display 24-bit color monitor 2 GB free disk space USB port DVD drive Mac: Any Intel-based Mac or PowerPC G4 or later Mac 1 GB RAM OS X 10.4 or later 1024 x 768 display 2 GB free disk space USB port DVD drive Garmin City Navigator North America & MEXICO 2010 The image file does NOT need to be mounted, burned, or opened, Just copy to your garmin device or in the garmin FOLDER on the SD CARD. Use the name: GMAPPROM.IMG for the Primary mapset or rename to: GMAPSUPP.IMG for the second, and GMAPSUP2.IMG for the third mapset. FREE SHIPPING WORLDWIDE. Pay with Only. --------------------------------------------------------------------

He wrote back to me inisting that it was a legal map and that it doesn't require an activation code because he bought it through Garmin as an "unlimited lifetime map". I'm not sure if there is such a product or not, but I'm pretty sure that Garmin wouldn't be allowing him to sell the maps to other people and continue to use it himself. All this software stuff is still pretty confusing to me. Once I get the item I will post the results here. Thanks for the help everyone, Chad

I'm a little hesitant to link the auction just in case I am the one that is wrong about this. He sent me an email saying that the item has shipped. I am going to write him back and try and get some answers first. Maybe it is a legal copy and he just doesn't know about the registration number that is inside. (maybe that's wishful thinking) Chad Edit: oh, and it is the 2010 DVD version.

Hello all, I mentioned this in my other thread but I am fearful that the copy of City Navigator I bought off of eBay is going to be a 'pirated version'. The auction looked legitimate and I asked the seller before bidding if the item was new, as advertised. The thing that has me nervous is that after I paid, he sent me an email saying that the program was 'unlocked' and that I would not have to do anything else to activate it. There seems to be a bit of a communication barrier and I don't want to jump to conclusions until I recieve the package, but I also want to be prepared in the even that I have to submit a claim to get my money back. Would I be correct if I wrote that a pirated version of this program could lock up my gpsr, or at the very least, not work properly. Also, it would make me ineligable for any customer support from Garmin. If I have to report this seller to eBay, and they leave negative feedback for me, is there a way to have that feedback removed from my score? Thanks, Chad

Aw man that's what I'm worried about. The auction looked legit and I contacted the seller first to make sure it was a new item. I already sent my money and everything... Chad

I hope i havent made a mistake... i bought my city navigator off of ebay and the descripion is called it "unlocked". The seller sent me instructions just to copy the entire folder to my sd card. Some of the threads I have been reading talk about a 26 digit code and connecting to the internet??? Do I have the wrong software? - Chad

so no point in getting an 8gig card if 4gigs is the max ? Or have i misunderstood that? Chad

Great. I am really making some progress - I just ordered Garmin City Navigator North America & Mexico 2010 and I am looking at a micro sd card. Can I put the City Navigator, free topo, and waypoints all on the same sd card? Thanks, Chad

Wow, thanks guys. So City Navigator for Canada and U.S. and free topo maps for out in the bush. Do I need another program to manage this stuff? Like GSAK? - Chad

Hello all, Yesterday I managed to score an Oregon 300 for only $150 on a local classifieds site. Now I would like to set it up for geocaching and some car navigation. I have only used a borrowed etrex in the past. I have tried the search function but my head is spinning from a list of different computer programs and map packages by different companies. Can anyone tell me what I should purchase for this unit? I would like to be able to use it to navigate city streets here in Canada (and some driving in the States). I know that I will need to get a micro sd card to hold all my data - what size is recommended? Thank you very much for your help!! Chad

I totally agree, and it's important to remember that fanatics aren't exclusive to organized religions only. For example, some people are fanatical about what should or shouldn't be in caches, and I'm almost fanatical in my dislike of Harley Davidson motorcycles... In answer to your imagined scenario, I think you would be very disapointed to find that people couldn't care less about getting a geocaching pamphlet at church. Many of them wouldn't "get the point", but I don't think anyone would find our hobby offensive (except for ultra-naturalists who might be bothered by all the burried garbage in our pristine wildernesses ). - Chad

That's the wierd thing about this thread, like the above post, everyone is pushing their beliefs onto the (geocaching) public. That's what people do I guess. Even the people who are saying that people should keep their beliefs to themselves are shareing their beliefs, the irony of the whole thing is amazing. I think what is really being said is that some beliefs are ok and others are not (!) It is really surprising to read over all the posts and see just what side of the argument is the tolerant one, definitely not what I would have expected... The only answer that seems to make any logical sense is "people are free to have their own religious, political, environmental, culinary, blah blah blah views . If you don't agree, trade something else (or just sign the log... I've already got enough junk as it is)." Those who are suggesting that people not be allowed to share or express their beliefs are actually trying to present themselves as the open-minded ones. Huh? There are a ton of things that I don't like. In fact I dislike most things (and that's how I like it). But I recognize that there are a few billion other people on the planet too. - Chad

I just tried to preorder the Legend hcx on Tiger GPS and my shipping which would have been free in the States - jumped up to $60 for shipping to Canada. Ok ok, so they don't like Canadians. I can take a hint - Chad

I think that xer0piggy's posts have been a real breath of fresh air. I am as brand loyal as the next guy, (Honda builds the best motorcycles ) but lets not make the mistake of assuming that just because GPS units are this way, means that they should be this way. I think that the changes 0p has suggested are bang on. The techno-geeks who have been doing this ever since gpsr's first became available to civilians are probably really comfortable with the current state of affairs - but the truth of the matter is, things are a lot more complicated than they need to be. To anyone who wants to argue and say 'no, it's really easy, you just don't get it', I would direct you to read through a few hundred pages right here in these forums. Look at all the 'how do I make this work' questions. Even worse, look at the answers - I have totally given up on mapping right now because I think it is absurd that I would have to run the files through two or three different programs - after obtaining the correct version of the correct map software, just to get them to work on my receiver. The very fact that so many different people are having difficulty proves that there is a problem. And remember that the people who are posting here are the types who do the research and the reading necessary to find and search an online forum - consider how many others out there open up the product, read the manual, then just say 'screw it'. A big AMEN to the point about offering map details al-la-carte. And remember, that doesn't mean you would have to stop offering the complete packages either! - if there are people who feel more secure having the whole country on disk - fine, sell them the expensive programs. But for each of them, you will have 10 people like me you would buy the 50 miles around my house, and the 50 miles around grandma's house, and maybe purchase another chunk when planning a vacation somewhere. The first company to heed 0p's suggestion will tap a large share of the market that is currently not interested in shelling out that much money for map data that they would never use anyways... so why not make some more money from the casual cachers out there? You've already gone through the work and expense of making the maps! What would you have to lose???? I know that some people are satisfied with a complicated process because they believe that orienteering shouldn't be easy. For me though, I am a father of three, the oldest only 5. When we look for a cache, our Honda Civic is usually still visible from the cache site . I am not the mountain climber, spelunking, SUV-mountain dew-advertisement type - and if I was, I doubt I would be out looking for buried mctoys anyways. This hobby has some great potential to be an awesome way to get families off of the couch and outside being active. If gpsr's are this complicated to use, then it is a problem with how the product is built, not with how the user is built. The first thing Garmin should do is hire 0p on contact to bring some fresh ideas to the whole industry . JMO - Chad

Ok, I have a new question. Can I use any SD card and reader or do I need to buy the Lowrance one? For example, would this work: http://cgi.ebay.com/512MB-SD-Card-SD-MMC-U...1QQcmdZViewItem Thanks