Keith Arnold Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I've noticed a trend, at least here in KY that more and more chaches are having religious items, booklets, etc. in them. I was of the impression this really wasn't allowed. 1 Link to comment
+flask Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 you're allowed to leave religious items. you are not allowed to place caches that are intended to solicit, including for religion. it is often viewed as bad taste to leave religious items that are heavy-handed or inflammatory. it is generally considered acceptable to leave more subtle items, especially if they are meant to represent you rather than to convert subsequent finders. some people on the other end of the bell curve consider any matter that's religious in nature to be offensive. personally, i am offended by promotional material for alcohol and tobacco items, as well as treatises on government agricultural subsidies and vegan propaganda. the key is to realize that a bazillion different kinds of people visit those caches, and that they wish to represent themselves in a lot of different ways. think of it as an athropological artifact, a miniature underground museum. don't get too bent out of shape by what people leave, so long as the items are nto meant to offend or demean. if the cache in question is on the church lawn and its original content is a tract library and schedule of services, it is clearly in violation of guidelines. otherwise, there's a lot of grey area. Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 This is what I do, Trade up, Trade even, or don't Trade at all. Link to comment
+TrailGators Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 You're allowed to leave religious items. You are not allowed to place caches that are intended to solicit, including for religion. This is correct! Link to comment
+Airmapper Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 (edited) I don't think I've seen that much. Once or twice maybe. I should have grabbed the get out of hell free card though. Edit: typo Edited August 17, 2007 by Airmapper Link to comment
nonaeroterraqueous Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 You could play it safe and only look for micros. No risk of ever having to look at stuff of X persuasion. Link to comment
+CYBret Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 You could play it safe and only look for micros. No risk of ever having to look at stuff of X persuasion. Link to comment
+The Jester Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 You could play it safe and only look for micros. No risk of ever having to look at stuff of X persuasion. Cool swag for a micro, but you'd need a large cache to hold the magnifing lens need to read it! Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I guess it isn't as much an issue in the northeast as it would be in KY. I see it, but rarely. Doesn't bother me. I actually find the Chick Tracts to be hilarious. Link to comment
+chrisandjanet Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I actually find the Chick Tracts to be hilarious. Yeah, Jack is an equal opportunity bigott. He does have some pretty funny stuff. The ones about Dungeons and Dragons and the Masons are my favorites! Regarding the tracts left in caches, I regard them like most of the other garbage swag out there - someone got a good deal on a bunch of junk for a low price, and decided "hey, this would make good (i.e. cheap) stuff to leave in a cache. I have seen a few nice items that I don't lump into this - I found a nice silver cross once, and a local cacher leaves handmade dream catchers as a sig item. Usually when I find a pamphlet or the like, it's already wadded up in the corner of the cache, so I take it out and leave something I got from the dollar store behind. Link to comment
+greyhoundlawyer Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 NYC must be full of agnostics. I have not seen one religious item. Link to comment
+Cache Heads Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Just trade it out as you would with any garbage. It's not hard to trade up when you are removing religious tracts... a rock would probably do. 1 Link to comment
+south central beach ops Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 We have noticed more religious items in South Jersey (which I personally don't agree with) I discreetly trade the item and note that I have moved it to a more appropriate place. It has been my understanding religious and advertising are not allowed unless the cache is listed as being religious in it's description. Link to comment
+nikcap Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Geocaching and Mickey D's are my religion. Now what do I do? Link to comment
+sTeamTraen Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 It has been my understanding religious and advertising are not allowed unless the cache is listed as being religious in it's description. Ain't no such thing (or at least, shouldn't be) as a religious cache... it wouldn't have passed the agenda guidelines in the first place. 1 Link to comment
+Ranster Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Why are people so afraid of religious items? If you are not a believer (I'm assuming most are speaking of Christian symbols), sign the log and move on to your next cache! No one says you HAVE to agree with every item left in a cache. What if I were offended by dice or cards because they can represent gambling? Or, small toys, which could represent the desire to be around young children in an unhealthy manner. I sure someone could come up with a reason to be offended by a geocoin or travel bug. Being a Christian, I wouldn't mind seeing certain items in a cache. If I were to see Muslim or Hindu, etc. items, I would ignore them. Nothing wrong with that. 1 Link to comment
+DudleyGrunt Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 We have noticed more religious items in South Jersey (which I personally don't agree with) I discreetly trade the item and note that I have moved it to a more appropriate place. It has been my understanding religious and advertising are not allowed unless the cache is listed as being religious in it's description. scbo, you don't agree with South Jersey? On what issues? It never ceases to amaze me at how strong a negative reaction to religious (Christian?) items. I'm not talking about those that only find stacks of track and such to be inappropriate, but to folks that think that anything of a religious (Christian?) nature should be forbidden and the assumption that they are left to convert fellow cachers. I occassionally leave Christian items in caches, such as crosses or other small trinkets. I have even (gasp) left a small Bible or New Testament. In none of these cases have I had conversion in mind, but thought they might be of interest to fellow Cristians. Dave 1 Link to comment
+Team GeoBlast Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Why are people so afraid of religious items? If you are not a believer (I'm assuming most are speaking of Christian symbols), sign the log and move on to your next cache! No one says you HAVE to agree with every item left in a cache. What if I were offended by dice or cards because they can represent gambling? Or, small toys, which could represent the desire to be around young children in an unhealthy manner. I sure someone could come up with a reason to be offended by a geocoin or travel bug. Being a Christian, I wouldn't mind seeing certain items in a cache. If I were to see Muslim or Hindu, etc. items, I would ignore them. Nothing wrong with that. I just try to keep politics and religion out of my recreation and visa versa. 1 Link to comment
+~Hylife~ Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 You could play it safe and only look for micros. No risk of ever having to look at stuff of X persuasion. Not really..my dad, being a Deacon of a Lutheran church, has already added Christian pamphlets to micro canasters..I'm talking film canasters here.. Sorry if that offends you, but yeah, he's just tryin to help.. Why are people so afraid of religious items? If you are not a believer (I'm assuming most are speaking of Christian symbols), sign the log and move on to your next cache! No one says you HAVE to agree with every item left in a cache. What if I were offended by dice or cards because they can represent gambling? Or, small toys, which could represent the desire to be around young children in an unhealthy manner. I sure someone could come up with a reason to be offended by a geocoin or travel bug. Being a Christian, I wouldn't mind seeing certain items in a cache. If I were to see Muslim or Hindu, etc. items, I would ignore them. Nothing wrong with that. Thank you, this is like the best post on this thread. (Except the spoonful of Bible, that was funny!! ) 1 Link to comment
+Ranster Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I just try to keep politics and religion out of my recreation and visa versa. And you have every right to do just that! Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 This is what I do, Trade up, Trade even, or don't Trade at all. Yup me too. And since I need all the help I can get I always trade my NC Sweet Potato Tracts for the religious ones, whatever denomination they may be. My tracts are full of yummy recipes and valuable nutritional info. And Sweet Potatoes are the official NC State Vegetable! ...some of the old-timers just knew this post was coming, didn't ya? 1 Link to comment
+J-Way Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I've noticed a trend, at least here in KY that more and more chaches are having religious items, booklets, etc. in them. I was of the impression this really wasn't allowed. Others have said this is very much allowed. Personally, I'd rather find religeous items than porn (which isn't allowed), or McToys covered in mildew. To each his own. If you're truely offended by these items, then no one here can really help you. Just do your best to ignore them, wash your hands thoroughly if you accidentally touch anything, and crank up the speed metal or gangsta' rap to clear your head of any unwelcome thoughts. Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 We have noticed more religious items in South Jersey (which I personally don't agree with) I discreetly trade the item and note that I have moved it to a more appropriate place. ...I also don't agree with South Jersey.It has been my understanding religious and advertising are not allowed unless the cache is listed as being religious in it's description.That doesn't sound correct, to me. Link to comment
+chaunce Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Fortunately my sitings of religious content (trade and logs) has been minimal. I think people are always going to put stuff in that other may not agree with. It would be nice if we never had to worry about seeing something religious (or something questionable) in a cache, but if you don't like it or prefer it you could email the originator and tell them how you feel, or just don't visit any of their caches. If it is someone that is logging stuff that is religious, then you could contact them via site email and express your concern respectfully. It's like anything though, if you don't like it try to stay away from it. Don't be a jerk about it to others in retaliation though. Link to comment
+Team Cotati Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 (edited) you're allowed to leave religious items. you are not allowed to place caches that are intended to solicit, including for religion. it is often viewed as bad taste to leave religious items that are heavy-handed or inflammatory. it is generally considered acceptable to leave more subtle items, especially if they are meant to represent you rather than to convert subsequent finders. some people on the other end of the bell curve consider any matter that's religious in nature to be offensive. personally, i am offended by promotional material for alcohol and tobacco items, as well as treatises on government agricultural subsidies and vegan propaganda. the key is to realize that a bazillion different kinds of people visit those caches, and that they wish to represent themselves in a lot of different ways. think of it as an athropological artifact, a miniature underground museum. don't get too bent out of shape by what people leave, so long as the items are nto meant to offend or demean. if the cache in question is on the church lawn and its original content is a tract library and schedule of services, it is clearly in violation of guidelines. otherwise, there's a lot of grey area. Anyone who would hunt for this mythical "cache on a church lawn" who is also easily offended by religious cache content needs serious mental evaluation. Man, it just gets weirder n weirder. Edited August 17, 2007 by Team Cotati Link to comment
+Cache Heads Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 ..my dad, being a Deacon of a Lutheran church, has already added Christian pamphlets to micro canasters..I'm talking film canasters here.. Sorry if that offends you, but yeah, he's just tryin to help.. I don't see why anyone should be offended by a silly pamphlet. Sure, I think it's a bit rude to fill a cache with propaganda (i.e. - trash)... but it takes a lot more than that to offend me! Like I said before, if ya don't like it-- just trade it out! Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I've noticed a trend, at least here in KY that more and more chaches are having religious items, booklets, etc. in them. I was of the impression this really wasn't allowed. The Other day I found a Hillary for president in 2008 item. We all fell about the cache laughing. It was a classic moment. Link to comment
+Evil Chicken Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 We have noticed more religious items in South Jersey (which I personally don't agree with) I discreetly trade the item and note that I have moved it to a more appropriate place. ...I also don't agree with South Jersey.Don't feel bad - South Jerseyans don't agree with South Jersey either. I can't say I've seen any upswing in religious-themed items in So. Jersey caches (maybe I haven't been caching far south enough). Even if I did, it wouldn't bother me. People seem to be focusing on Christian items, but there are many items in caches that could be interpreted as "religious" from new age quartz crystals and amethysts, to tarot cards and pentagrams to native american dream catchers (I have seen all of these items in various So. Jersey caches). Do you find these items to be offensive as well? Link to comment
+south central beach ops Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 As for my problem with religious items it just funny to me that when I take or add somthing to a cache I log it as being left by me or taken by me. I have yet to see anyone claiming that they left religious items, why is that? It must be a miracle! Link to comment
+DudleyGrunt Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 As for my problem with religious items it just funny to me that when I take or add somthing to a cache I log it as being left by me or taken by me. I have yet to see anyone claiming that they left religious items, why is that? It must be a miracle! Usually, I recored exactly what I left and sometimes I don't specify. Depends on my mood at the time. Link to comment
+Wayfinders Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 The Other day I found a Hillary for president in 2008 item. We all fell about the cache laughing. It was a classic moment. Now there's a reason to pray......... Link to comment
+rdaines Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 So long as it is not against the rules people can leave whatever they want. You don't have to look at it. I'd rather see religous tracks than lighters and knives in caches, and I've seen both. Don't care about political stuff either, everyone has an opinion. Link to comment
CivilVet Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 My fiancee and I have both put some religious things in a cache before. Sometime they are a foam glider we got and thought some kid might enjoy, we were out of the WWII plane ones. Or other sute things we have picked up over the years as rewards for kids. They may mention God, but that can be so abstract people cna choose to take it as they will. And I don't think it is that big a deal as long as it isn't hard sell religious tracts. Even those don't offend me, I just ignore them but I wouldn't place any. I think people getting upset about stuff like that is dumb, I don't like it when people put in some political stuff, but then again it is all in the eyes of the cacher. My trash is someone else's neat trade. I know some people leave new batteries, on the one hand, nice if your GPS is low and you forgot you used your last extra set the last time you were out. But they can leak and cause problems. I don't think there really is a perfect cache item. Use what you think someone else might like to find, and take. We use things that we liked as kids/young adults so things like gliders, pendents, and neat collectibles are what we try and use. 1 Link to comment
+Always & Forever 5 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I have yet to see anyone claiming that they left religious items, why is that? It must be a miracle! I don't log anything I trade in or out. When my swag shows up in a cache, is that a miracle, too? Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 (edited) Depending on the container what it contained, I certainly wouldn't mind finding the occasional religious thong in a cache. Oh, this is about religious things.... nevermind. Edited August 17, 2007 by wimseyguy Link to comment
2brnot2b Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Leaving religious items that solicit... like tracts... wouldnt that be against the rules too? Can't we just leave religion out of this one little innocent hobby? Nope, I guess not. The unrelenting religious ones will sneak it in everywhere, every time, on everyone (if they could) no matter how annoying! Motto: leave no nook, cranny, or remote piece of tupperware unsanctified by my particular religion. Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 As for my problem with religious items it just funny to me that when I take or add somthing to a cache I log it as being left by me or taken by me. I have yet to see anyone claiming that they left religious items, why is that? It must be a miracle! I just don't write what I've taken or left anymore, unless maybe it's a trackable item. But in my earlier logs I said if I left a "religious" item. Look back at my old logs and see. Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Leaving religious items that solicit... like tracts... wouldnt that be against the rules too? Can't we just leave religion out of this one little innocent hobby? Nope, I guess not. The unrelenting religious ones will sneak it in everywhere, every time, on everyone (if they could) no matter how annoying! Motto: leave no nook, cranny, or remote piece of tupperware unsanctified by my particular religion. Religion definition taken from an online dictionary: A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. Hm...sounds a lot like Geocaching, to me. Better be careful! Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Leaving religious items that solicit... like tracts... wouldnt that be against the rules too? ... Placing a cache that solicits is against the rules for caches listed on this site. Swag is another thing, and even more freedom is had by finders when it comes to swag. This is what Freedom looks like. ...Can't we just leave religion out of this one little innocent hobby?... No. People all believe what they believe because they are free to do so. Thank god we are free to act on what we believe right down to leaving or hating tracts. That too is freedom. Bitching about it in a forum...that's also a freedom. Freedom like Democracy isn't always pretty in action, its just better than the alternates. Link to comment
+Driver Carries Cache Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 The Other day I found a Hillary for president in 2008 item. We all fell about the cache laughing. It was a classic moment. OK... now I'm offended. There's no need for language like that here . I've never quite understood those who's dislike for religion is so strong that the sight of a Bible, religious literature, the Ten Commandments or "one Nation under God" sends them into convulsions. Let me preface this by saying I'm not the most religious person in the world either (haven't been to Church since childhood), but I have my beliefs. I believe there are lessons of value in many religions. I begrudge no one their faith, I'm even polite to the door-to-door folk delivering their messages. A polite word is all it takes to send them on their way, no harm, no foul. I see religious items in caches the same way... if I'm not interested, on to the next cache. Do the religious items burn some of you when you touch them? That might be a problem . I guess there are plenty of things out there to be offended by if one's goal is to be offended... I just don't have time for it. Live and let live, oh yes, and God bless, DCC Link to comment
2brnot2b Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Leaving religious items that solicit... like tracts... wouldnt that be against the rules too? ... Placing a cache that solicits is against the rules for caches listed on this site. Swag is another thing, and even more freedom is had by finders when it comes to swag. This is what Freedom looks like. ...Can't we just leave religion out of this one little innocent hobby?... No. People all believe what they believe because they are free to do so. Thank god we are free to act on what we believe right down to leaving or hating tracts. That too is freedom. Bitching about it in a forum...that's also a freedom. Freedom like Democracy isn't always pretty in action, its just better than the alternates. Feedom. Did I advocate legislation? No. And I wouldn't call it bitching... just stating my (reasonable) opinion. Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 (edited) ...... just stating my (reasonable) opinion. Fixed. Bitching was a comment on the entire thread from all angles, and not your post in particular. Edited August 17, 2007 by Renegade Knight Link to comment
+Lotho Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 If this religious material is insulting to you, it will; be to most others. Dispose of it. Link to comment
2brnot2b Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 (edited) ...... just stating my (reasonable) opinion. Fixed. Bitching was a comment on the entire thread from all angles, and not your post in particular. Funny, but... I am merely promoting tolerance, namely a gaming environment that is religiously neutral, where one is not confronted by solicitations and the intrusiveness of people trying to convert each other. Surely we can probably all imagine screeds or propoganda that would rub us the wrong way. Do we really want to give the green light on *encouraing* such items? Geocache guidelines state that caches may not be designed to solicit for a religion, BUT the guidelines GO BEYOND that. They contain this provision for all of geocaching, and I quote: "Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda. " Now, this geocaching.com guideline appears in the context of creating caches, but the careful reference to "geocaching" as a whole, not just "caches," makes clear the intention. Edited August 17, 2007 by 2brnot2b Link to comment
+Big Squirrel Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Funny, but... I am merely promoting tolerance... Isn't prohibiting certain things just because you don't like them being intolerant? Why do those who are opposed to religion, Christianity especially, scream "tolerance" while being unmovingly intolerant towards Christianity? If you don't like it just ignore it and move on. Link to comment
+Glenn Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 We have noticed more religious items in South Jersey (which I personally don't agree with) I discreetly trade the item and note that I have moved it to a more appropriate place. It has been my understanding religious and advertising are not allowed unless the cache is listed as being religious in it's description. scbo, you don't agree with South Jersey? On what issues? It never ceases to amaze me at how strong a negative reaction to religious (Christian?) items. I'm not talking about those that only find stacks of track and such to be inappropriate, but to folks that think that anything of a religious (Christian?) nature should be forbidden and the assumption that they are left to convert fellow cachers. I occassionally leave Christian items in caches, such as crosses or other small trinkets. I have even (gasp) left a small Bible or New Testament. In none of these cases have I had conversion in mind, but thought they might be of interest to fellow Cristians. Dave I don't like religious items in caches because they burn if I accidentally touch them. One time I didn't notice a cross hiding under a TB that I was retrieving from an ammo can. It was months before my knuckles healed enough so that I could comfortably cache once again. Seriously tho. I can't believe how intolerant some people are to religion and Christianity in particular. Being that over 75% of the US population identifies themselves as Christians it seems that those who are complaining about religious and more specifically Christian items in caches are a small but vocal minority. With that many people identifying themselves as Christians I am surprised that I don't find more religious items in caches. Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Funny, but... I am merely promoting tolerance... Isn't prohibiting certain things just because you don't like them being intolerant? Why do those who are opposed to religion, Christianity especially, scream "tolerance" while being unmovingly intolerant towards Christianity? If you don't like it just ignore it and move on. Don't worry, the huge majority of stuff left in a caches that people don’t care for won’t get anyone banned, so there’s very little the rest of us can do other than bitch about it. That's all these threads are for. Please feel free to argue your point. Just don't get too upset because we'll be covering the same ground again later, again and again, and again. and again. Link to comment
+Glenn Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I am merely promoting tolerance, namely a gaming environment that is religiously neutral, where one is not confronted by solicitations and the intrusiveness of people trying to convert each other. Surely we can probably all imagine screeds or propoganda that would rub us the wrong way. Do we really want to give the green light on *encouraing* such items? The short answer is YES! You do not promote tolerance by hiding or ignoring the subject, that only breads intolerance from ignorance. In fact it promote tolerance you do exactly the opposite. You admit that others have views that you may not agree with. tol·er·ance /ˈtɒlərəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tol-er-uhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry. 2. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward opinions and practices that differ from one's own. 3. interest in and concern for ideas, opinions, practices, etc., foreign to one's own; a liberal, undogmatic viewpoint. 4. the act or capacity of enduring; endurance: My tolerance of noise is limited. Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 (edited) When I find items I don't care for I just trade them out. Equal trade or better of course. It's those torn ticket stubs, wadded gum wrappers and rocks that I usually grab out first and then drop whatever I have in the bag. Religious stuff left in a cache pales in comparison next to a torn ticket stub or a depleted cache. I suppose if we get religion out of caches then we can start addressing the take something - leave crap people. Priorities, eh? edit: added the words, 'or better', I. Edited August 18, 2007 by BlueDeuce Link to comment
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