swiss army knives

[+4 Paws And Then Some]

We've recently started a collection of minuature "swiss" army knives and pocket knives collected from various caches. We started this collection because of the "no knives in caches" rule, but have been finding so many lately, even left by experienced cachers, that we're not sure if it is indeed taboo. (A fact to note is that in a town of 45'000 people and lots of bush, farms and country, perhaps the view on knives isn't as bad as it would be in a major city, and that a swiss army knife is more of a tool than a knife.) What are your views on this matter, especially if you cache with children?

[+Geovius]

There are knives and knives so my suggestions is to use common sense. My common sense says that swiss army knives are not really knives unless we speak about bigger models. What comes to children I wouldn't let children open caches anyhow without adult supervision.

[+hydnsek]

A couple years ago, swiss-army knives were sort of my signature item because I wound up with about 200 of them left over from a company promotion. They seemed like great trade goods (better than most of what I found in caches), and were indeed snatched up pretty quickly (one guy wrote that finding the cool pocket knife made his 9-year-old son's day). I didn't realize then that they might be taboo, cos nobody said anything except 'thanks' for them.

 

I too am interested in what others think on this. My supply is about gone now, so not so much of an issue for me anymore, but still wonder if I miscalculated.

[TinyMoon & The Pumpkin King]

I carry a Swiss Army knife with me all the time, especially when out caching. I think they're great and they're more of a tool than a "deadly weapon" (except in McGuyver's hands! ), I don't see a problem leaving them as geo-swag. I wouldn't leave a hunting knife though.

[+briansnat]

I personally have no problem with them. They are a tool, not a weapon. Some people object to them because they fear a child may find one and harm himself or others. I think that is pretty far fetched because you generally don't see many 6 year olds out geocaching without their parents.

 

That said, some land managers don't share my view. Geocaching was banned in an entire park system because a ranger found mention in a cache log that a pen knife was in the cache at one time. He didn't even find the knife, just a mention in the log and that was the end of geocaching in an entire county park system.

 

Shortly after that incident the guidelines were updated to prohibit knives and multi tools in caches. I'm sure it was largely in response to that.

 

So putting knives in caches is now against the guidelines. That includes starting a new cache or adding a knife to a cache you find. If you find a cache and choose to leave a knife, nobody will be standing over your shoulder saying you can't. But how would you feel if that knife resulted in geocaching being banned by that town, county or state?

Edited November 13, 2006 by briansnat

[Clan Riffster]

I wouldn't leave one, only because of the "No Knives" guideline. On those rare occasions when I find one in a cache, I happily dig deep into my swag bag and leave lots of goodies in exchange for it. Personally, I can no more think of a pocket knife as a weappon than I could a hiking staff. Both are tools. Both can be used to cause mayhem. Now days, it seems like the world has moved on, farter away from common sense than ever. I remember going to Junior High "armed" with a dreaded pocket knife, and had a shotgun in my truck most of the way through High School, and nobody batted an eye. Now days the goobers running our education system would throw me under the jail for doing that.

 

So, "Officially" I'd say no, don't leave them. Off the record, I'd say do what you think is right.

[+The Leprechauns]

It was just a pen knife, little more than a toy, that got geocaching banned in an entire county park system east of Columbus, Ohio. A maintenance worker found a cache with a knife in it, and that was it -- geocachers had violated the "no weapons in the park" rule.

 

That is an example from my area, but there are others from different areas. So, as Jeremy Irish put it in a thread like this several years ago, Groundspeak got tired of receiving angry phone calls from land managers, and instead updated the "Cache Contents" guideline to include knives and multi-tools in the list of prohibited items. It is something to point to when land managers ask about the issue.

 

When I talk with land managers unfamiliar with geocaching, the "weapons issue" is in their top five list of concerns, along with "do you bury these containers?" and caches with drugs or alcohol inside.

 

The first item my daughter ever traded for at a cache was a knife (she was 8 at the time). We were very happy to find it. But I'll gladly trade a ban on knives and multi-tools for the right to keep finding caches in the majority of park systems.

[undiscovered]

I don't see anything wrong with knives in a cache. If the knife was some kind of weapon (dagger, bayonet, etc.) then I may be opposed to it. Further upon reviewing the guidelines for placing a cache, it says nothing about not placing knives in them...

 

Please! No alcohol, tobacco, firearms, prescription or illicit drugs. Let's keep this safe and legal.

 

 

As always user discretion and common sense should play a role in what is left in trade.

 

-Jim

[Clan Riffster]

Further upon reviewing the guidelines for placing a cache, it says nothing about not placing knives in them.

Just for the record:

Cache Contents

 

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol or other illicit material shouldn't be placed in a cache. As always respect the local laws. Geocaching is a family activity and cache contents should be suitable for all ages.

 

Food items are ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because food items (or items that smell like food) are in the cache. Even the presence of mint flavored dental floss has led to destruction of one cache.

 

If the original cache contents list any of the above items or other questionable items, or if a cache is reported to have the questionable items, the cache may be disabled, and the owner of the cache will be contacted and asked to remove the questionable items before the cache is enabled.

[+briansnat]

I don't see anything wrong with knives in a cache. If the knife was some kind of weapon (dagger, bayonet, etc.) then I may be opposed to it. Further upon reviewing the guidelines for placing a cache, it says nothing about not placing knives in them...

 

Please! No alcohol, tobacco, firearms, prescription or illicit drugs. Let's keep this safe and legal.

 

 

As always user discretion and common sense should play a role in what is left in trade.

 

-Jim

 

You missed a part then. Under the guidelines for placing a cache:

 

Cache Contents

 

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol or other illicit material shouldn't be placed in a cache.

Edited November 13, 2006 by briansnat

[Tahosa and Sons]

In my opion knives in Urban Caches are taboo, but where I cache a knife is not the most dangerous thing out there. I usually carry a good sized hunting knife and sometimes a machete in a pocket that is on my pack.

[+StarBrand]

I find them and I like them but I don't leave them because they are clearly taboo and I agree with Briansnat - don't want to be the one that gets it banned.

[+D@nim@l]

It was just a pen knife, little more than a toy, that got geocaching banned in an entire county park system east of Columbus, Ohio. A maintenance worker found a cache with a knife in it, and that was it -- geocachers had violated the "no weapons in the park" rule.

 

That is an example from my area, but there are others from different areas. So, as Jeremy Irish put it in a thread like this several years ago, Groundspeak got tired of receiving angry phone calls from land managers, and instead updated the "Cache Contents" guideline to include knives and multi-tools in the list of prohibited items. It is something to point to when land managers ask about the issue.

 

When I talk with land managers unfamiliar with geocaching, the "weapons issue" is in their top five list of concerns, along with "do you bury these containers?" and caches with drugs or alcohol inside.

 

The first item my daughter ever traded for at a cache was a knife (she was 8 at the time). We were very happy to find it. But I'll gladly trade a ban on knives and multi-tools for the right to keep finding caches in the majority of park systems.

 

Was this in Licking County? I used to live there in my pre-caching days and I always wondered why some of the parks had no caches when I returned for visits. I heard they had a policy but I was unsure why. That sucks.

[+sbell111]

This issue comes up pretty frequently in the forums. While I agree that knives are harmless trades 99.99% of the time, why run the risk that your knife is going to cause any harm? Certainly, every one of us can find trade items that are not forbidden by the guidelines.

[+nfa]

They are against the guidelines, so I don't leave them in caches anymore (at one point I did leave tiny SAKs as a sig item, but I stopped almost 2 years ago)...I trade out knives that I find in caches to try and protect geocaching (and because I like them...)...

 

Jamie - NFA

[+ThePropers]

This issue comes up pretty frequently in the forums. While I agree that knives are harmless trades 99.99% of the time, why run the risk that your knife is going to cause any harm? Certainly, every one of us can find trade items that are not forbidden by the guidelines.

 

To me the issue is not about how harmless/not harmless a knife in a cache is, it's about how geocaches containing knives are perceived by landowners, park rangers, and other authority figures that may have a say on whether or not geocaching is permitted on that particular piece of land.

 

When someone likes this asks about what is in the caches, saying "Geocaches contain trinkets and toys" goes a lot further than saying "Geocaches contain trinkets, toys, knives, lighters, and matches."

[Team CDCB]

It's a stupid why we need to have the guideline, but the unforutate fact is that we do need to have the guideline and so it's best to adhere to it. As others have said repeatedly, you don't want to be the one that gets caches banned from areas.

 

But even in "wilderness" areas... areas where Land Managers might be more understanding, caution should still be used. I can just imagine some news station doing a story on geocaching and 'exposing the dangers' of this new sport. We all know how certain elements of the media like to sensationalize things...

 

"This game attempt to lure people out into unknown areas where they may be miles from help!"

 

"It causes disruption in cities where average citizens seen people acting unusually and worry about terrorist attacks..."

 

"Containers have been known to contain dangerous items, like knives, where anyone, even children, can find them!"

 

It's a sad state of society, but it is the society we live in.

[+hairball45]

Yep - that was Licking County. The policy still holds. Requests for change are answered "no". There are quite a few (for a small area) other caches, but none in LCPD parks.

hairball

[+Renegade Knight]

Knives are great. They were popular swag and all around the kind of trade that most people would like to see. Apparently you like them too since you have so many.

 

As for kids, they cope with kitchen kives just fine, it's hard to image that a cache knife would pose a problem.

[+Renegade Knight]

It was just a pen knife, little more than a toy, that got geocaching banned in an entire county park system east of Columbus, Ohio. A maintenance worker found a cache with a knife in it, and that was it -- geocachers had violated the "no weapons in the park" rule....

 

I wonder if they banned picnics due to butter & steak knives?

[+Lighteye]

I see no problem with knives in caches in the woods. If a child too young/immature to handle a knife is 3-4 miles deep in the woods unsupervised, then there is obviously a far greater problem that needs to be addressed. If they are old enough to be out there unsupervised, then they can probably handle a small knife with ease.

[+Kabuthunk]

Keep in mind that society as a whole is dumb as snot. Because everyone will either sue anyone else over the slightest little thing, or because even under the most insignificant, neglegeable chance that something will happen, it will deemed inappropriate for everyone in that society.

 

Hence... rules, instructions, etc always have to pander to the absolute lowest possible denominator of all of this. It doesn't so much matter if 1 problem occurs one in every 56 million times... the second that one problem occurs, it will immediately be ruled out.

 

I tend to hate the whole of society, as one might see

[+GoBolts!]

We've recently started a collection of minuature "swiss" army knives and pocket knives collected from various caches. We started this collection because of the "no knives in caches" rule, but have been finding so many lately, even left by experienced cachers, that we're not sure if it is indeed taboo. (A fact to note is that in a town of 45'000 people and lots of bush, farms and country, perhaps the view on knives isn't as bad as it would be in a major city, and that a swiss army knife is more of a tool than a knife.) What are your views on this matter, especially if you cache with children?

 

I hope you left swag of equal or better value!

[undiscovered]

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol or other illicit material shouldn't be placed in a cache. As always respect the local laws. Geocaching is a family activity and cache contents should be suitable for all ages.

 

Yup, I missed that part.

 

My bad.

 

--Jim

Edited November 14, 2006 by undiscovered

[+chuckwagon101]

SWISS ARMY KNIVES IN GEOCACHES??????

 

I am shuddering and trembling at the thought!

 

Soooooooo....I am going to do my best to remove EVERY SINGLE Swiss Army knife from every single cache that I possible can!

 

For the "safety" of others of course. No greed or nothing personal.

 

MMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......Swiss Armmmmyyyyy Swaaaaaagggg!

Edited November 14, 2006 by chuckwagon101

[+Alan2]

A fact to note is that in a town of 45'000 people and lots of bush, farms and country, perhaps the view on knives isn't as bad as it would be in a major city,

I grew up in the Bronx and as a kid always carried a pocket knife playing "land" or whittlin' whenever i could. No one really cared or said anything as long as it wasn't a switch blade or gravity knife. Today, it's different what with metal detectors in some schools and stern policies against weapons of any kind for schoolkids.

 

Regarding caches, I don't think NYC government cares what's in caches in our parks - heck, I don't think they even know caching goes on in our parks.

 

However, since 911, I had three Swiss Army pocket knives confiscated at the airport because I forgot to take them off my key ring and put them in my checked baggage!

[+ThePropers]

Unfortunately, this is also a banned item....

• 85 implements and 100 functions: $1200
  
• Shipping and Handling: $15
  
• Finding this in a cache and not having a $1200 trade item with you: Priceless
  

Linky

[+sbell111]

Why is the Swiss Army working so hard to muck up our game?

Edited November 14, 2006 by sbell111

[+briansnat]

Why is the Swiss Army working so hard to muck up our game?

 

And what is so great about their equipment. Its not like they've won many wars or anything.

[Team CDCB]

And what is so great about their equipment. Its not like they've won many wars or anything.

I believe that Hitler was once quoted as saying: "There's a reason the Swiss are still neutral."

 

Now, I like SAKs as much as the next guy... okay, perhaps more than the next guy (I've got over 50 of 'em), but even I wouldn't want that big mother pictured above. That's taking the concept to the obsurd. Even the biggest knife I have, while not even close to being practical, is still functional. That one is just a way too huge.

[GermanSailor]

It was just a pen knife, little more than a toy, that got geocaching banned in an entire county park system east of Columbus, Ohio. A maintenance worker found a cache with a knife in it, and that was it -- geocachers had violated the "no weapons in the park" rule....

 

I wonder if they banned picnics due to butter & steak knives?

The exact same thing came to my mind. A steak knife is far more dangerous than one of the Mini Swiss Army Knifes.

 

GermanSailor

[Team CDCB]

I wonder if they banned picnics due to butter & steak knives?

The exact same thing came to my mind. A steak knife is far more dangerous than one of the Mini Swiss Army Knifes.

Maybe what someone needs to do is go to that park system and have a picnic with steak knives and make sure you are seen by one of the park workers. To keep consistant policy that you mean picnicing would need to be banned from all parks there.

 

PLEASE NOTE: I'm not advocating anyone do this of course... just trying to highlight the inconsistancy of this policy. If someone where to use steak knives in the park, and If the park worker saw it and then If s/he decided to do anything about it, the obvious action would be to tell the people to leave or to put the knives in their car or something, not to ban all picnicers.

[+laughingcat]

not a knife but how about a glass scraper? the small type that uses a one sided razor blade? Though the blade is turned so the sharp edge was tucked into the glass scraper I thought it was not a good idea. Figured before I pointed that out, I should make sure of what others thought about it. Did two new caches today and both had one of these in it.

[+Criminal]

I authorize you to leave a knife of any size in any of my caches that are outside city limits.

[+briansnat]

not a knife but how about a glass scraper? the small type that uses a one sided razor blade? Though the blade is turned so the sharp edge was tucked into the glass scraper I thought it was not a good idea. Figured before I pointed that out, I should make sure of what others thought about it. Did two new caches today and both had one of these in it.

 

Though I admit to leaving a few of these in caches at one time, its a bad idea.

[+Renegade Knight]

We've recently started a collection of minuature "swiss" army knives and pocket knives collected from various caches. We started this collection because of the "no knives in caches" rule, but have been finding so many lately, even left by experienced cachers, that we're not sure if it is indeed taboo. (A fact to note is that in a town of 45'000 people and lots of bush, farms and country, perhaps the view on knives isn't as bad as it would be in a major city, and that a swiss army knife is more of a tool than a knife.) What are your views on this matter, especially if you cache with children?

 

Knives are great swag and a handy basic tool that we all use. Alas when you take them out of the kitchen and put them in a cache some people get in a panic because someone might find the knife and try to take over the world, or at least their park. Nevermind reality. The very thought is enough to have caused this site to comply with requests from land managing types to ban them from caches.

 

Because they are legal, even for 9 year olds, I use the 'don't ask, don't tell policy' when I encounter them. Prison clean up crews were an example of why not to place them in caches. This makes me smile when I look at our prison girls who work our grounds and run chainsaws and dump trucks and wonder what they would do if they had to set down their chainsaw for a swiss army knife.

Edited February 27, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+awhsom]

I authorize you to leave a knife of any size in any of my caches that are outside city limits.

How is that any different from a cache owner who authorizes a cacher to post a false find?

Edited February 27, 2007 by awhsom

[+Criminal]

I authorize you to leave a knife of any size in any of my caches that are outside city limits.

How is that any different from a cache owner who authorizes a cacher to post a false find?

Very different, you have to actually leave a knife if you say you do, not pretend to.

[+awhsom]

I authorize you to leave a knife of any size in any of my caches that are outside city limits.

How is that any different from a cache owner who authorizes a cacher to post a false find?

Very different, you have to actually leave a knife if you say you do, not pretend to.

I am opposed to knifes in caches. I guess that if some local groups of cachers feel that they are above the restrictions of the guidelines, and want to play the game by their own rules, there is not much I can do about it.

[+Criminal]

I authorize you to leave a knife of any size in any of my caches that are outside city limits.

How is that any different from a cache owner who authorizes a cacher to post a false find?

Very different, you have to actually leave a knife if you say you do, not pretend to.

I am opposed to knifes in caches. I guess that if some local groups of cachers feel that they are above the restrictions of the guidelines, and want to play the game by their own rules, there is not much I can do about it.

I’m not sure why you’re attempting to derail this thread, but here's the guidelines for you:

 

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol or other illicit material shouldn't be placed in a cache. As always respect the local laws. Geocaching is a family activity and cache contents should be suitable for all ages.

 

The AF has strict definitions for terms like should, shouldn’t, shall, and shall not. The term ‘shouldn’t’ isn’t binding.

Edited February 28, 2007 by Criminal

[+Bill & Tammy]

I came across a TB once that was a cheapy Swiss Army style knife, before placing it in another cache I put a zip tie around it to secure the blades. Personally I have no problem at all with Swiss Army knives in caches, you can't idiot proof everything.

[+Retcon]

I have two opinions about Swiss Army knives.

 

First, I don't think they should be in caches.

 

Second, if I found one in a cache I'd happily nab it. Them things are durn handy.

[+wesleykey]

I'm not going to read all 42 replies, but I will tell you I would not leave one in a city park cache or a playground cache. A long hike is a horse of a different color, as kids are not as likely to find the cache without the presence of adults.

[+BlueDeuce]

swiss army knives, what's your opinion

 

I like them just fine.

 

Bottom line concerning swag, if I needed it I would have gone and bought it for myself already. Or my kid.

 

If gc.com doesn't want me to place them in caches what the hell do I care?

 

I own and carry (on various occasions): knives, guns, condoms, liquor, fireworks, hot peppers, you name it.

It doesn't mean I need to drop them in caches.

 

Let me worry about my kids, you worry about yours and leave geocaching the heck out of it.

[+awhsom]

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol or other illicit material shouldn't be placed in a cache. As always respect the local laws. Geocaching is a family activity and cache contents should be suitable for all ages.

 

The AF has strict definitions for terms like should, shouldn’t, shall, and shall not. The term ‘shouldn’t’ isn’t binding.

You forgot this next part.

If the original cache contents list any of the above items or other questionable items, or if a cache is reported to have the questionable items, the cache may be disabled, and the owner of the cache will be contacted and asked to remove the questionable items before the cache is enabled.

 

That sounds pretty cut and dried to me.

[+Hawkbit]

As usual, things must conform to the lowest common denominator.

Because some people are challenged in the common sense department, we are ALL given rules to deal with them.

 

This site has to CYA... so when things come up, they can show due dilligence.

 

There are a lot of chicken littles out there and a lot play the game and a lot are in charge of the areas we want to play in... so we have placate them so we can continue.

 

It's kinda sad that our caches are basically given the TSA treatment... pretty soon you will be able to use the TSA guidelines as rules for trade items

 

Just be sure to take your shoes off before you approach the cache and have your Geocaching ID ready

[X-isle]

I believe it was Bill and Tammy that said, "You can't idiot proof everything." I am so with this statement it hurts. Society in general has moved far from the realms of common sense. But it is not the village idiot mucking things up for the rest of us. It is the liberal judges allowing suits for ridiculous arguements. For petes sake, snowblower manufacturers now have to place stickered warnings on their equipment warning the user NOT to use said equipment on their roofs! What is tolerated in todays society is readily accepted in the next. Liabilities now encompass the absurd. Therefore, our schools now enforce no tolerance policies and finger nail clippers are banned from commercial flights. My ten year old son carries a small "old timer" pocket knife. I believe a young mans first pocket knife from his dad is a natural part of right of passage, and acceptance of responsibility. I got my first pump shotgun when I was twelve. Maybe it is true, that country raised children are more responsible and of better character. But I think the character of ones children is in the hands of the parent, regardless of geography. Kids cut themselves on scissors and knives. Kids skin their knees and bruise their ribs playing football. Kids get black eyes running into bigger kids' fists. And I wouldn't trade any of it for a safe (live in a bubble) lifestyle. I believe using kids as an excuse not to place little pocket knives (and lighters too, for that matter) in caches is exploitive and a little self serving. The real reason is to refrain from being in a position of liable. The fear of legal process is becoming epidemic. And that is because justice is now replaced with liberalism. But I would welcome the battle in any case. And I certainly wouldn't use fear for the welfare of my son, as a tool to avoid it. I don't place pocket knives in caches because it is against the rules. BUT....rules can be changed. Oh good grief...am I ranting again?

Edited February 28, 2007 by X-isle

[smokingpipe]

Maybe we should all have Geocache ID's. LOL

 

Anyways, I wouldn't put a knife in a cache but would take one out, for safety, and for me of course. But we should follow the Guidlines. The last thing we need is Geocaching being shut down due to weapons in cache boxes. We may think they are not weapons, but when the media stir things up and causes heat, people can make a big fust over a popcorn fart. I say stick with the guildlines and keep the game going. It's fun and alot of people like it. Lets not ruin it over a little tiny knife.

[+DcCow]

We've recently started a collection of minuature "swiss" army knives and pocket knives collected from various caches. We started this collection because of the "no knives in caches" rule, but have been finding so many lately, even left by experienced cachers, that we're not sure if it is indeed taboo. (A fact to note is that in a town of 45'000 people and lots of bush, farms and country, perhaps the view on knives isn't as bad as it would be in a major city, and that a swiss army knife is more of a tool than a knife.) What are your views on this matter, especially if you cache with children?

 

I'll stick with Bill's policy of "Don't ask, don't tell"!

[+jackrock]

I find small pocket knives in caches all the time. It's violating the rules but doesn't upset me because they are too small to be weapons (a Bic pen could inflict worse damage if used as a weapon). I've thought about removing them but I don't want to be the cache police and they're obviously popular and not a threat. Also, I would not place them and I don't need a large collection of pocket knives. They are typically the very small pocket variety and often are difficult to work from being wet. I did find a very large kitchen style knife in a cache once, with about an 8 inch blade, and I removed it.