How Do You Feel About Cache Availability By Appointment?

[+Doc Geo]

(I am posting this message as recommended by Groundspeak when a cache is not approved.)

 

I spent a week carving a night cache (GCWQ88) out of my heavily forested land that I live on. Since I live on it, I was going to make the cache available by appointment. I used reflective thumbtacks on trees to mark the path. For normal caches, we all have to gamble that when we get to the coordinates the container may be washed away, muggled or missing for some other reason. By making an appointment to do the night cache on my land, you are guaranteed that the cache will be there, in good condition, the log book won't be full, there will always be good swag in it and you'll have live hints available should you stray off course.

 

So... my cache was not approved. Here is what I was told:

Prime Reviewer:

"I've been discussing this with the other reviewers, and they (and I) have a big objection to the idea of having to make an appointment in order to hunt a cache. While there are a lot of caches that have restricted hours (such as in parks that are closed at night), they're regular, predictable hours. Caches shouldn't suddenly become inaccessible just because the owner is out of town for a week or two.

If having people on your property at night is an issue, it's probably not the best place for a night cache. Until you can find a better arrangement, I'm not going to be able to publish this."

 

The main problem the PR seems to have is the idea that it would suddenly become inaccessible and a geocacher would not find it there when looking for it. This is not logical at all! If a geocacher makes an appointment, then the geocacher is assured of the cache being there. Where as when we go after a regular cache, we are hoping it is still there. And if a geocacher doesn't want to set a date for it, the geocacher doesn't have to "go for it". Some geocachers don't go for micros because they want more than just signing a log. Some don't want to have to solve a puzzle (I do!). So this cache could be bypassed if one just doesn't want to have to make an appointment.

 

So following the recommendations of steps to take prior to appealing the decision, I am asking for your opinions.

When making your minds up, please consider that Groundspeak has a geocache of their own that is available by invitation only!

GCK25B....

 

Am I right in feeling that there is not enough of a reason to disapprove this cache? Or am I wrong? Let's discuss... Oh, I did have a group of 20 geocachers hunt the cache believing it would be approved. None of them voiced any misgivings about it being by appointment. They all enjoyed it very much and are now upset that they can't log it. They don't see it as that big of an imposition to set a date to hunt the cache. Others who couldn't make it told me they planned to in the future. So please let me hear your opinions.

 

Doc Geo

Edited June 27, 2006 by Doc Geo

[+The Jester]

I think his objection was that if you are on vacation or otherwise out of town, you wouldn't be able to make an appointment for a cacher to find the cache. I want to know how far in advance are you willing to make an appointment and also how quick. Can I plan a vacation 6 months away, or can a local get an appointment the same day. What hours are appointments for (10pm to midnight, or any hour of darkness)? And what would you response be to people who don't have appointments hunting the cache? Or is the cache only placed when an appointment is made?

 

Two points about GCK25B: 1. As the guidelines say, a published cache isn't a precedent for any other cache(s). 2. They made the rules, they can break the rules.

[+budd-rdc]

I wouldn't use GCK25B as comparsion - it's corporate headquarters, so the purpose and the environment is different from your forest property. Besides, it is archived, so one just doesn't stumble onto the listing by Pocket Query, or "nearest caches" link.

 

If you want to keep the cache well-maintained on your own property, you just do it as often as you want since it's covenient. Using this to support your appointment idea is weak, in my opinion. (By the way, I've visited Geocaches on private property before)

 

A good compromise would be to find a way to restrict access with a predictable schedule as the reviewer suggested. If there's a gate, put a padlock and post the combination in the description/hints, or hide the key in a micro cache nearby. Post available hours, days, seasons somewhere nearby, and/or on the listing. Make appointments OPTIONAL.

[+Doc Geo]

You're right, if I'm out of town and I can't find a wi-fi for my laptop, then I can't make an appointment. Oh what can one do? Oh, perhaps just wait for me to reply to their email? How far in advance would I be willing to make an appointment and how quick? I monitor my email on my geocaching.com profile all day and evening long. You want to come out and try it? As long as you get a confirmation from me, then we'll do it. Usually no reason we can't do it any night you want. Well, the cache hunt begins at 30 minutes after sunset. (I should add that to my cache description, thanks!) And yes, to deter people from coming out without an appointment, the cache would only be placed if someone is coming out to look for it.

 

Rules? I don't know about anyone else, but to me a rule is a promise, a covenant. It says "this is the way things are and will be - period". That's why it's a rule. They break their own rules as or when it suits them, then that makes them liars in my book. But we're talking about two different entities here right? Groundspeak and the volunteer reviewers?

 

I think his objection was that if you are on vacation or otherwise out of town, you wouldn't be able to make an appointment for a cacher to find the cache. I want to know how far in advance are you willing to make an appointment and also how quick. Can I plan a vacation 6 months away, or can a local get an appointment the same day. What hours are appointments for (10pm to midnight, or any hour of darkness)? And what would you response be to people who don't have appointments hunting the cache? Or is the cache only placed when an appointment is made?

 

Two points about GCK25B: 1. As the guidelines say, a published cache isn't a precedent for any other cache(s). 2. They made the rules, they can break the rules.

[+Doc Geo]

I wouldn't use GCK25B as comparsion - it's corporate headquarters, so the purpose and the environment is different from your forest property. Besides, it is archived, so one just doesn't stumble onto the listing by Pocket Query, or "nearest caches" link.

 

If you want to keep the cache well-maintained on your own property, you just do it as often as you want since it's covenient. Using this to support your appointment idea is weak, in my opinion. (By the way, I've visited Geocaches on private property before)

 

A good compromise would be to find a way to restrict access with a predictable schedule as the reviewer suggested. If there's a gate, put a padlock and post the combination in the description/hints, or hide the key in a micro cache nearby. Post available hours, days, seasons somewhere nearby, and/or on the listing. Make appointments OPTIONAL.

 

Some great ideas here. This is my first attempt to create a cache. I don't think I gave it enough thought. I will try to get it resubmitted after making some changes.

[Scuzball]

If you ask me, I think people should be able to make an appointment as an option. If they want cooler things in the cache and newer hints and whatnot, they can contact you, but it should still be available without an appointment, for those who don't take things from the cache or don't want to put out the extra effort for stuff.

[+hukilaulau]

Even though this is somewhat unusual and perhaps violates the letter of some rule, I don't have any problem with it at all. As with all other caches, if someone doesn't like something about it, they don't have to hunt it!

I see several good points to what you are suggesting. For you, the hider, you can put a lot of effort and expense into the cache with SOME assurance that it's not going to deteriorate as quickly as some others do. For the hunter, it assures a high quality cache in a relatively safe environment. This might be perfect for a family that wants to try night caching, but is hesitant to take the kids into unknown territory. I vote yes!

[+Yellow ants]

Rules? I don't know about anyone else, but to me a rule is a promise, a covenant.

 

That's probably the reason why they're guidelines, not rules.

 

Off the top of my head, I can think of two geocaches in Denmark that are by appointment only (GCQC5G and GCTKPB), but they have a very valid reason

[+Mystery Ink]

Rules? I don't know about anyone else, but to me a rule is a promise, a covenant.

 

Off the top of my head, I can think of two geocaches in Denmark that are by appointment only (GCQC5G and GCTKPB), but they have a very valid reason

lol thats one I agree with. That looks like a fun cache.

[+Runaround]

I don't like the idea of an appointment. What if our schedules are incompatible? Then you're saying I can't hunt the cache. What if I manage to make an appointment and on the chosen date you come down with the flu and you can't leave your bed? Once again, I'm denied access. It all sounds like an unnecessary hassle.

 

If you're concerned about the quality of the cache, visit it frequently. Make sure everything is in place and in good condition. You said the cache is on your property and that you live on the property. It seems reasonable that you could visit the cache every couple of days or once a week.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I like the idea, and think that it is workable. To me, this is just a special requirements cache. I do not mind special requirements caches so long as the special requirements are clearly spelled out up front. However, for such a cache, I would want to see a clear and explicit disclosure of this special condition, along with instructions on how to comply, on the cache listing page, plus I would suggest that this is not a Tradictional cache anymore, but rather, due to the special requirements, should be listed as a "Mystery" (aka "?") cache. Better, if the GC site ever implements use of a new "Special Requirements" cache type (currently being discussed in a thread in the Website Features forum), this latter category would be even more fitting.

[ImpalaBob]

I think this could be classified as an Event cache. The "Event" happens when an appointment is made and confirmed. ImpalaBob

[CoyoteRed]

I think it would set a bad precedence and knowing so it shouldn't approved.

[+Mastifflover]

I don't like the idea and probably wouldn't hunt your cache and here is why. I'm sure that you are a great person because 99.9% of the people that I have met geocaching are. But because the fact that I don't know you other than what you happen to put in your profile I would not feel comfortable meeting with some stranger at night on his home turf. Like you said yourself, if it's good for one than it should be good for all and if this gets to be an acceptable condition, the next person that hides a night only cache that is available only by appointment might not be such a nice person. Maybe I'm being paranoid but I only do what's comfortable for me.

[PCFrog]

I don’t like the idea as well. Most of the time I don’t even read the caches description until I am on sight. So, if I was on a trip I would not know your condition until I got there. While this is a small reason it is my first reason for not liking it. Second, If it is your land how is it going to be muggled? And if you are so concerned about its condition and contents then check on it once or twice a week, or after every log.

 

Simply how would you like it if every state park or cache you WANTED to visit had you check in prior to going to it and assigned you a guide?

 

Also you stated you give live hints. That means you will be going with them during the hunt…

 

Simply do what I and others do. Check your cache often.

[+briansnat]

I think it would set a bad precedence and knowing so it shouldn't approved.

 

Yep. When its done once, dozens will think it's a dandy idea and try to follow.

 

I also wonder how the OP will deal with those of use who just download waypoints and don't have the cache pages. What is to keep this kind of cacher from wandering on to the property in search of the cache not knowing about the appointment restriction? Is he going to delete the legit finds? If he does that won't sit well with a lot of locals. If he doesn't then what will keep others from finding the cache without an appointment and claiming they didn't know?

Edited June 27, 2006 by briansnat

[+Night Stalker]

We have a travelbug hotel in our area that is by appointment only. This was the only way to make sure that our local cache maggot did not destroy the cache. I am not aware of any problems that the cache owner had in getting this cache approved.

 

Since we do have issues with caches being plundered in our area I can see how you would like to do something like this in order to make sure the goodies stay around for a while. I am surprised that your approver had issues with what you are trying to do.

[+mertat]

I don't like the idea and probably wouldn't hunt your cache and here is why. I'm sure that you are a great person because 99.9% of the people that I have met geocaching are. But because the fact that I don't know you other than what you happen to put in your profile I would not feel comfortable meeting with some stranger at night on his home turf. Like you said yourself, if it's good for one than it should be good for all and if this gets to be an acceptable condition, the next person that hides a night only cache that is available only by appointment might not be such a nice person. Maybe I'm being paranoid but I only do what's comfortable for me.

 

I totally agree with this. I love night caches and I enjoy meeting new people but would never do a cache (night or day) by appointment only for the reasons Mastifflover gives. It puts me a little too far out of my safety comfort zone.

Edited June 27, 2006 by mertat

[+Bear Paughs]

Most of the time I don’t even read the caches description until I am on sight. So, if I was on a trip I would not know your condition until I got there.

 

Bingo. Amongst the other reasons that have been mentioned here, this could become a huge problem. If you're not going to want people on your property when you're not there to supervise, then don't place a cache there.

[PCFrog]

Hate to make a second post but you also pointed out that some people don’t like micros or virtuals and they can decided not to do those. So how does one filter your cache out from the rest of the regular caches?

 

I can see it now on the PQ choices that there will be selections for:

 

Caches with appointments

Caches with out appointments

Caches that require a TB drop

Caches that only SUV owners can log

Caches that are can only be found by a group of 4 or more

Caches that are only for single cachers

Caches that are only for married cachers

Caches that are for married cachers with children

Caches to meet people in the dark in the woods for 1st time

 

We have a travelbug hotel in our area that is by appointment only. This was the only way to make sure that our local cache maggot did not destroy the cache. I am not aware of any problems that the cache owner had in getting this cache approved.

 

And as for the other cache that is a TB hotel that needs an appointment what is the difference then if I just tell people that they have to come to my house at specific times by appointment to retrieve a TB. This cache should be shut down as well.

[+Doc Geo]

I don't like the idea of an appointment. What if our schedules are incompatible? Then you're saying I can't hunt the cache. What if I manage to make an appointment and on the chosen date you come down with the flu and you can't leave your bed? Once again, I'm denied access. It all sounds like an unnecessary hassle.

 

What about caches that are placed on islands in the middle of lakes and rivers? If I don't have a boat, should I be made to rent or buy one so I can hunt the cache? That's not fair. That's another cache that I can't claim. But you know what? It's only one cache and there are so many more out there for me to grab!

[+The Jester]

Most of the time I don’t even read the caches description until I am on sight. So, if I was on a trip I would not know your condition until I got there.

 

Bingo. Amongst the other reasons that have been mentioned here, this could become a huge problem. If you're not going to want people on your property when you're not there to supervise, then don't place a cache there.

My question about this, how would you know it's a night cache and NOT know about the appointment - both require you to read the cache page. There is no attribute that is "Night Cache Only".

[+briansnat]

I don't like the idea of an appointment. What if our schedules are incompatible? Then you're saying I can't hunt the cache. What if I manage to make an appointment and on the chosen date you come down with the flu and you can't leave your bed? Once again, I'm denied access. It all sounds like an unnecessary hassle.

 

What about caches that are placed on islands in the middle of lakes and rivers? If I don't have a boat, should I be made to rent or buy one so I can hunt the cache? That's not fair. That's another cache that I can't claim. But you know what? It's only one cache and there are so many more out there for me to grab!

 

Still, how would you deal with those who just have a waypoint on their GPS, don't know about your appointment clause and are wandering around your property without your permission?

[+Big Max]

My main gripe wouldn't be from the person doing the cache but from your perspective. Unless your a severe night owl, people calling at one or two in the morning would wear on me really quick. People will do it too. I have been in a situation somewhat similar to this and received many phone calls in the middle of the night. But if that doesn't bother you go for it. My philosophy if you don't like a cache whether it is type, difficulty, location or whatever than don't do it. There are plenty of others that you can do instead.

[+droid81]

I think it would set a bad precedence and knowing so it shouldn't approved.

 

Yep. When its done once, dozens will think it's a dandy idea and try to follow.

 

I also wonder how the OP will deal with those of use who just download waypoints and don't have the cache pages. What is to keep this kind of cacher from wandering on to the property in search of the cache not knowing about the appointment restriction? Is he going to delete the legit finds? If he does that won't sit well with a lot of locals. If he doesn't then what will keep others from finding the cache without an appointment and claiming they didn't know?

 

This is exactly what I am worried about. I generally keep 200-500 waypoints in my GPSr and don't always have descriptions available to me. I would have no way of knowing that this is a night cache. Also I really am nervous caching on private property not knowing the owners, property lines and potential for problems were I to cross property lines. I think the best idea would be 2 caches, one a micro with the combination to a lock or key to a locked gate and a description of the 2nd night cache. Probably should have boundaries marked out.

 

I would also suggest a conversation with a lawyer and insurance agent about liability issues in your area with this type of cache.

 

Just my $.02 and probably worth a lot less

 

droid81

[bogleman]

Ok rather than getting all worked up, make the listing as you want and open to anyone. Specify on your listing that you would enjoy accompanying anyone wishing to seek the cache if they want your company just send an email in advance so an appointment can be made so you can go together.

 

I for one am a fairly solo person, I enjoy company (sometimes) but for the most part it's just me and if I get a bug up my hiney late/early one night and I want to try your night cache at 3am I will. I personally do not enjoy being under anyone’s control when I am looking for a cache, I hunt at my own pace - when and how I see fit. I would not seek your cache if I had to make arrangements in advance no matter how good it is.

[+dkwolf]

I don't like the idea of an appointment. What if our schedules are incompatible? Then you're saying I can't hunt the cache. What if I manage to make an appointment and on the chosen date you come down with the flu and you can't leave your bed? Once again, I'm denied access. It all sounds like an unnecessary hassle.

 

What about caches that are placed on islands in the middle of lakes and rivers? If I don't have a boat, should I be made to rent or buy one so I can hunt the cache? That's not fair. That's another cache that I can't claim. But you know what? It's only one cache and there are so many more out there for me to grab!

 

BUT, I operate like briansnat....waypoints loaded into GPS, and likely haven't read the cache page. The gpx file I keep loaded into the GPS is filtered by cache type and attributes, so I know roughly what I've got in front of me. If I get to the cache site and see a river or lake between me and the cache, I'll go home, get my kayak, and come back. If the cache requires high-angle climbing, I'll go home and put the cache on my to-do list until my bro-in-law can come and help me with the climbing aspect. By your logic, any cache rated higher than 1/1 should be archived because any disabled individual may not be able to get to it. Sorry, doesn't work.

 

If I get to the cache site and see 'PRIVATE PROPERTY NO TRESSPASSING' I'll turn around, go home, and ignore the cache, and maybe even post a SBA note.

[+Jhwk]

I have found numerous caches that are only available at certain times. waypoints, legs, caches hidden in libraries, museums, parks, roadside attractions. Don't see a problem with an appointment based cache. Think you will miss a lot of traffic though. A lot of folks do "spur of the moment" caching. Nothing like heading to a cache only to find that it's only available during certain times. That's why I read the description on my palm now, before I drive.

[ParentsofSAM]

Ok so a lots of posters here just load waypoints and then head out. While that may be fine for most caches, some are restrictive. Like ones in parks and other locations that have certain hours of operation or how about ones that you have to approach from one direction only. It is a little irresponsible to hunt cache without reading the cache page first, IMO. There is important information on those cache pages.

 

I think the way to solve this is to make it a puzzle cache, like Vinny said. I bet almost no one just loads puzzle waypoints and goes out to hunt with no other information or reading the cache page.

 

While we would not likely make an appointment to hunt a cache, I do not see a problem with the cache being listed. I also do not rent boats to get caches on islands, learn to rock climb to get ones on cliffs or like to solve really hard puzzles, but they are listed because someone does like to do those things.

 

Maybe instead of the appointment idea you could make the cache available only on Fri - Sun nights. Then when the cacher gets on site they could find a micro at the entrance of the trail into the woods with your phone number and they could call you.

[+sbell111]

I don't like the idea of having to ask your permission before looking for a cache. While you might not exclude anyone from looking for your cache, the owner of the next 'appointment' cache might decide to only let his friends go after it.

 

I think the slippery slope argument works in this case.

Edited June 27, 2006 by sbell111

[+Nero]

Simple question. would you want to make an appointment to do fo caching? I dont mean for 1 particular cache. i mean at all?

 

what if you woke up one morning, it looks like its going to be a great day and you decide you want to do some caching. but oops you didnt make an apointment. so you cant go caching...

 

I think its riduculous you would even think of such an idea. either you are willing to have people on your property or you arent! don't try and justify yourself by saying it would always be maintained and have a fresh log, it should be that way regardless.

 

Now as far as parks and other places that have restricted hours, they are usually the same all the time, like m-f 7am-9pm, or 9am-5pm, and also usually clearly posted at the property.

 

[+wimseyguy]

I don't like the idea of having to ask your permission before looking for a cache. While you might not exclude anyone from looking for your cache, teh owner of the next 'appointment' cache might decide to only let his friends go after it.

 

I think the slippery slope argument works in this case.

 

Yup what he said. Only took 30 posts for it to happen.

I'm sure you are a very nice person. Many people think I am a nice person, but some do not. Suppose you are one of the few misguided ones who think I'm a grade A jerkwad. Might be hard for me to get that appointment then? Caches that aren't available to all shouldn't be listed here.

You can always beg, borrow, buy or steal a boat.

You can decide to learn how to scuba dive.

You can figure out puzzles with some help.

You can plan your own time to get to the library, park, museum, or wherever within the posted hours of operation.

You can decide for yourself what risks and costs you are willing to expose yourself to in order to find a cache.

 

No one can force you to schedule an appointment with someone you do not want on your property nor want to be able to find your cache there. For this reason alone I don't think it should be published.

 

Bogleman offered an adaquate solution, provided you do not feel compelled to escort everyone to the cache. Simply edit it to read that it is your property and you would be happy to accompany anyone who wants to meet you and enjoy your company on this caching experience.

[Tahosa and Sons]

I do know from practical experience that this kind of cache is feasible and very workable. Today is the 4th birthday of a cache that is only done by appointment. There have been a lot of good logs associated with this cache and there has not been one problem with this concept at all. And the completion of this cache can only be done if you make an appointment for the first one. So break out your packs, compasses and come to CO, I'll show you how to do it.

 

I believe the reviewers should approve your cache. Just because its different doesn't make it bad, unless one lacks a creative vision.

 

Just make the directions clear and precise, so those that look for it know what is in store for them.

Edited June 27, 2006 by Tahosa and Sons

[+RichardMoore]

There are people out there who read the cache page and believe the instructions don't apply to them. One of the most common being cachers in a park at night knowing that the park closes at dusk. Even if you delete their log, they still will have been there when you weren't expecting them. And, since no one can see a deleted log, other cachers wouldn't know that you deleted it.

 

But my question is:

What if someone makes an appointment and then doesn't show up? Or is running late? Folks who are spending the day caching can't keep to a strict schedule, and they could be burning more energy than anticipated and not be out as long as intended.

So someone makes an appointment for 9:30. You wait until 10:00 and they don't arrive so you go into your house. They show up at 11:00, you're not there so they start the search without you.

 

Another question (Okay, another several questions):

How long is the appointment for? An hour? Two hours?

How far apart are the appointments?

What if someone decides that it's nice out there and wants to spent a couple hours after finding the cache just admiring nature? Are you going to stand there and wait for them?

 

On a personal note, I probably wouldn't search for the cache. But that's because I usually cache alone and wouldn't want the cache owner standing there watching me.

[+thegoldminer]

I'll tell you my biggest concern with "appointment on private property":

 

I download all caches in the area that I intend to be in to my GPS. There is no description, no clues, nothing. I find my caches by going to the nearest cache waymark on my GPS, and then to the next, and so on.

 

If I were to download your cache and go there at some other time of the day, I would be "violating" your idea of appointment only. Aside from that, I would be concerned that I found myself on private property.

 

To contrast with any other cache with similar limitations, if another cache is only "available" during certain hours (such as a park open during certain hours, etc, as the reviewer suggests), the hours tend to be posted and I have an opportunity to learn of the hour restrictions. Or perhaps upon arrival I would observe other indications that the cache can or should be retrieved at certain times, such as the presence of reguarly scheduled little league games, or high traffic areas.

 

Likewise, it would also likely not be private property, or other property where I might find myself concerned that my actions may be construed as suspicious or tresspassing.

 

I applaud your creative intentions, but I do not feel it is within the current spirit of the sport.

 

p.s. As to the comments about the cache being on an island in a lake, I have actually been looking forward to encountering this situation when I show up for a cache. I would be able to get a better idea of the area, and then properly prepare for a return. The joy of this sport is that we can pick and choose our "battles".

[+Kealia]

I don't like the idea either, sorry.

 

As for this comment:

They all enjoyed it very much and are now upset that they can't log it.

Why does the smiley matter if they had fun?

 

Just becuase you can't publish the cache on this site doesn't mean the cache can't exist. Post it in your local forums and your problem is solved. If people won;t go after it just becuase they don't get the smiley, then is it really the cache they are after or just the smiley?

[Trinity's Crew]

I personally feel that it's a bad idea for many of the reasons already posted, but you asked how we felt so I thought I should tell you. Good luck to you.

[Clan Riffster]

Doc, I think it's a great idea. Obviously you can't please everybody. You should never tailor your cache to appease those folks who are too lazy to read the cache page. As long as it's properly listed as a "Puzzle", as both my night caches are, then most cachers are bright enough to realize they gotta do a bit more than just drive up to it.

 

Yes, Groundspeak has an appointment only cache, which has been archived for a long time, which folks still manage to "Find". Remember, it's there game and they can play fast & loose with the guidelines whilst holding you to a higher standard. You can't fight City Hall. I just reread the guidelines, and I can't see anything in there that even remotely denies this type of cache. Perhaps your reviewer is reading something I'm not?

 

Good luck!

[+Harry Dolphin]

And yes, to deter people from coming out without an appointment, the cache would only be placed if someone is coming out to look for it.

 

And here, you run afoul of the 'permanence' requirement.

I see no correlation between 'people without boats cannot do boating caches', and 'appointment necessary'. Nor even 'Park open from dawn to dusk'. Just not the same thing.

Two fins down on this thought.

[+briansnat]

Doc, I think it's a great idea. Obviously you can't please everybody. You should never tailor your cache to appease those folks who are too lazy to read the cache page.

 

Hmmm, those us of who enjoy the added challenge of finding caches using just the coordinates and without the handholding and hints that are on many cache pages are now lazy?

Edited June 27, 2006 by briansnat

[+Runaround]

I don't like the idea of an appointment. What if our schedules are incompatible? Then you're saying I can't hunt the cache. What if I manage to make an appointment and on the chosen date you come down with the flu and you can't leave your bed? Once again, I'm denied access. It all sounds like an unnecessary hassle.

 

What about caches that are placed on islands in the middle of lakes and rivers? If I don't have a boat, should I be made to rent or buy one so I can hunt the cache? That's not fair. That's another cache that I can't claim. But you know what? It's only one cache and there are so many more out there for me to grab!

 

Completely different point. Your cache is on dry land and all I need are my feet and a flashlight. I'm already equipped.

 

The appointment raises a host of problems. What if you choose to deny me an appointment just because we disagree in this thread? What if the only time I'm free for night caches is on Tuesdays at 2:30 AM and you don't want to be out that late because of work/school the next day? What if I'm there at the appointed time and you fail to show? Repeatedly? What if Nudecacher wants to hunt the cache in the buff and you don't feel like looking at his pale backside illuminated by your headlamp?

[+Team Neos]

Are you considering having it available any night, with the option to have it available by appointment?

 

If it's not there every night, then I agree with the folks that say it's an event cache.

If you aren't comfortable with people on you property without your supervision, are you sure you want the cache there at all?

 

(The rest of this is not directed to the OP)

As far as going to a cache without reading the cache page...well, that might just be a little irresponsible. It might cause you to be unintentionally discourteous to others and well may put you in danger.

~We have a cache where the neighbors have requested the courtesy of having no night visits . I suppose if too many cachers were seen there at night, they would ask that the cache be removed.

~And if you decide to do this cache without reading the cache page first, let me know, and I'll notify the authorities in St. Louis to haul your soggy carcass out of the river.

[+1stimestar]

Sorry no. I'm a female and do most of my caching alone. I would have NO problem doing a night cache, but not if I have to let a total stranger know what time of the night I would be alone in the woods. How handy. That's just not being responsible.

[+CC-TOZ]

I can see the points of those who don't want it listed for whatever reason. I also think you might want to think about the liability issues of your own for having these people on your land. Who knows what could happen to them or you. But I feel it should be listed. You have a choice, its not a right, it's a privlege to look for any cache or not. If you don't feel safe, then don't look for it. Some you need a boat for, or are otherwise only accessible in the winter when the water freezes. Others are accessible only to scuba divers or mountain climbers. The coordinates he gives could be only for his driveway and you get the final coords when you get there. I agree that there are a lot of wierdos out there who would just love to have unsuspecting people come on their property at night. And for all anyone knows, there could be some already listed. But in Wisconsin we have a website where you can check the background of anyone in the state as well as a sex offender website. Perhaps instead of the location, Groundspeak could do a background check.

 

How about a cache that is located inside of a bar or tavern or gentlemans club? Would that be okay? The business is not always open for business.

 

The issue is to list the site or not. As long as the description of the conditions are listed, then I say list it.

 

Just my opinion.

[+BlueDeuce]

First of all it appears that the OP is off doing some more work while we sit and discuss.

 

Off-topic - Yes, I understand that people don't read the cache page, well not all caches are available 7/24 so says the city and state laws. Cacher beware is the rule.

 

As for appointment caches, it shouldn't be based simply on the owner's schedule, that they are available to unlock a gate to a hayfield. It needs to be a place worth visiting. (Yeah I know, but that's (edit) one of the definitions of exception.)

 

Like this one. Santa Fe Trail NM-01

 

There are caches (raises hand to hip level) and there are caches (raises hand above head).

Edited June 28, 2006 by BlueDeuce

[+BigHank]

Even though this is somewhat unusual and perhaps violates the letter of some rule, I don't have any problem with it at all. As with all other caches, if someone doesn't like something about it, they don't have to hunt it!

I see several good points to what you are suggesting. For you, the hider, you can put a lot of effort and expense into the cache with SOME assurance that it's not going to deteriorate as quickly as some others do. For the hunter, it assures a high quality cache in a relatively safe environment. This might be perfect for a family that wants to try night caching, but is hesitant to take the kids into unknown territory. I vote yes!

 

Hey, you said what I was going to say...... thanks for saying it.

[+Isonzo Karst]

I think the most likely way to get this listed would be to offer it at specified times (8pm to midnight second Friday of the month as an example) with a REQUEST for an RSVP.

 

I just reread the guidelines, and I can't see anything in there that even remotely denies this type of cache. Perhaps your reviewer is reading something I'm not?

 

I think what the reviewer is reading is , "Your cache should be in place and ready to hunt at the time your cache page is submitted for review".This is only available to cachers that are successful in scheduling an appointment.

 

If it's listed as a puzzle cache, it violates the "solution available on cache page" part. The guidelines specifically reference that the owner cannot be emailed for the solution. "a puzzle that requires sending an e-mail to the cache owner with the solution in order to obtain the coordinates may not be (listed)". This isn't sending a puzzle solution for coords, but it's still emailing the owner to get started on the cache. I assume this "no email" got added to the guidelines for good reason. It hasn't always been there.

[AZcachemeister]

List it.

I am not local, and if I'm in the area without 'an appointment', I can hit the 'delete' button as fast as anyone. And I certainly will.

[+welch]

....

 

Am I right in feeling that there is not enough of a reason to disapprove this cache? Or am I wrong? Let's discuss... Oh, I did have a group of 20 geocachers hunt the cache believing it would be approved. None of them voiced any misgivings about it being by appointment. They all enjoyed it very much and are now upset that they can't log it. They don't see it as that big of an imposition to set a date to hunt the cache. Others who couldn't make it told me they planned to in the future. So please let me hear your opinions.

 

Doc Geo

I skimmed a number of the posts, so maybe I missed it, but why can't your cache be available on set hours? (ex. 8 to midnight every Friday and Saturday night) Posting a cache is like a big open invitation to others to come. Setting up unusual requirements that probably can't be enforce is only going to irrate you. At some point someone will either not have read the directions, or decide it doesn't apply to them, and show up without appointment on the wrong day, wrong time, etc. If this would bother you greatly, you might reconsider putting a cache on your own property.

From what you've said, the reason this can't be a "full time" regular cache is because?...

If you just want to volunteer to met other cachers / have a cool one on one night cache, maybe you can set up a 'tour guide' waymark.

[+Doc Geo]

I don't like the idea of an appointment. What if our schedules are incompatible? Then you're saying I can't hunt the cache. What if I manage to make an appointment and on the chosen date you come down with the flu and you can't leave your bed? Once again, I'm denied access. It all sounds like an unnecessary hassle.

 

What about caches that are placed on islands in the middle of lakes and rivers? If I don't have a boat, should I be made to rent or buy one so I can hunt the cache? That's not fair. That's another cache that I can't claim. But you know what? It's only one cache and there are so many more out there for me to grab!

 

Still, how would you deal with those who just have a waypoint on their GPS, don't know about your appointment clause and are wandering around your property without your permission?

 

I think the solution is to change it to a Mystery/Unknown type of cache which pretty much means that a geocacher needs to read the description to find out what he/she is looking at.