Disappointed

[fria]

When I first discovered Geocaching about 4 years ago, I was excited about this hobby. What a great idea to find a hidden object in the woods with a GPS. As an outdoor enthusiast, this became another reason to spend more time in the woods I love so much. Unfortunately, the original enthusiasm I had for Geocaching has been lost.

 

In the beginning, it seemed that there was a new cache almost everyday. As time went by, fewer and fewer new caches were listed, at least in my area. Now, it is very rare to find anything nearby at all.

 

I decided to spur interest by locating a few caches myself, something I had never done before. There are plenty of great places around me that have never had a Geocache. Not only could I get a chance to participate in the hobby from the other end, but I could also introduce people to some great natural areas that I'm sure few know about.

 

Thats when the disappointment began. I found out the politics involved in Geocaching left a bad taste in my mouth. Among the worst was the people operating this website itself. Rather than promote this hobby by providing a sort of bulletin board of cache sites, I found that the people behind Geocache.com are petty and bureacratic in nature by restricting what caches make it onto their webpage. Its not that there is anything illegal or dangerous about the cache itself. Rather it seems to be a matter of dotting the I's and crossing the T's.

 

It is no wonder that this hobby seems to be dying. No telling how many caches have not been placed because some enthusiast did not stroke the Geoche.com people in the correct manner. This and the well known disagreement between Buxley's website have proven that Geocache.com has morphed from a site promoting geocaching to a site promoting itself.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. We suck. Enjoy using the forums for your own entertainment.

[+Ambrosia]

This hobby is dying? You coulda fooled me.

[+Marky]

I had to check the post date to make sure it wasn't April 1st. The sport is dying in your area? I can't keep up with it in my area and I average about 4 finds a day. I've never had any problems with submitted caches to be listed. Any issues were always handled politely and were resolved easily. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with it though.

 

--Marky

[+Miragee]

I found my first cache on January 17 of this year and I've found many, many more than the OP has in four years. I got addicted very quickly!

 

In this area, more than a dozen new caches show up in my weekly bulletin. I will never, ever find all the caches in the area within 25/30 miles of my house.

 

It is too bad there are not more caches in the OP's area, but it certainly isn't because of this site or its"politics."

[magellan315]

What is this "Geocide Day". Didn't we just have someone earlier complaining that no one wanted to take action against a problem in a local park. For someone who hasn't found a cache in three years I have no understanding why you have chosen to share these pearls of wisdom with us now.

[Jeremy]

I hope you aren't lost on the irony that 4 out of the 11 finds you logged were placed with permission of Cleveland Metroparks, due to the positive relationship with Groundspeak and the local geocaching organization.

 

(puts ogre mask back on). Grr!

[+Greymane]

I am glad I don't live in that area. I know we don't have hundreds of caches right in my neighborhood, but we do alright for a rural area. With the activity on this site, I would hardly say this is a dying interest.

[Keystone]

Hello,

 

I am the Geocaching.com volunteer who reviews new cache submissions in the area where you live, northeast Ohio. I am quite confused by your post. You have only submitted one geocache for review, and that occured nearly one year ago, in mid-April of 2004. You hid your cache in one of the Cleveland MetroParks, and it consisted of a log-only micro in a film canister. I archived your cache after you refused to obtain the permit required by that park system. In response, you sent the following note:

 

The Cleveland Metroparks is public land. I would no sooner ask for their permission to place a cache than I would to take a walk. What business is it of theirs.  As I wrote you, they placed a cache nearby in the past for their geocache program. I would question their judgment anyway since they allowed a particular cache, The Rivers Edge, to be placed in a very dangerous area and a person was recently found drowned nearby.

 

This area has not had many new geocaches for a very long time. I would think that a new one would be welcomed by everyone. Whether I tell a bunch of people

of and interesting trail they should hike or if they go looking for a tiny film canister in the nook of a tree, what difference should it make? And as far as

endangering the environment, the Metroparks has done far more to destroy natural areas by building new facilities, parking lots and bike trails than a few

nature enthusiasts would looking for this cache.

 

I would like to see this cache listed in interest of perpetuating the hobby here because I think it is an enjoyable activity. I can't see how they could find

you responsible. But, without new sites in this area, the hobby is in danger of drying up. However, if you decide not to list this cache, so be it.

 

One reason I'm confused is because you're now posting about this, nearly ONE YEAR later!

 

Another reason I'm confused is because of the very healthy growth of geocaching in Northeast Ohio. There are 1,682 active geocaches within 100 miles of the coordinates for your archived cache. You haven't found any of them. You logged 14 finds on the website, the last one being in 2002, all on caches that have since been archived. I would encourage you to go find 1,682 more, and then decide whether the sport is dying in your area.

 

A third reason why I'm confused is because your cache was denied due to a park policy, not a geocaching.com policy. We do not list caches which violate a known, published land manager policy. Argue what you will about some of our other listing guidelines, as many others have, but if you don't like the fact that you need a permit to hide a cache in the MetroPark, please go write to the MetroParks.

 

A fourth reason why I'm confused is because this particular park system is WONDERFUL to work with. They are a model that I always point to as an example of a pro-geocaching land manager. Their website promotes geocaching. They hide their own official caches for us to find. They sponsor events for geocachers. And, they allow geocachers to hide their own caches -- if they obtain a permit. Hopefully some Northeast Ohio geocachers can speak up to confirm this. I can recall listing two or three new caches in the MetroParks within the past month alone.

 

Was it something else that was bothering you, or did I guess correctly?

[+AtoZ]

I agree with the prior psster WHY ARE YOU POSTING THIS NOW?????

I dont mean to put you down but by your profile you ahve not been active in years and have contributed nothing to the sport. But what I really wonder is why are you posting this now?????

 

I guess some peopel want to be trolls.

 

The parks post is valid though.

 

cheers

[Keystone]

Posting again to add this map of caches, centered on the OP's coordinates for his archived cache. If it weren't for Lake Erie, the cache density figure would have been even higher. Note all the "NEW" tags, for caches listed within the past week.

 

[+Eric K]

You know I usually stay out of these but one of the quotes from the original post was funny.

 

That geocaching has turned into a site promoting itself. How dare you guys promote yourself instead of someone else. Shame, shame, shame....

 

Seriously though, I live in Akron, Ohio about 40 minutes south of Cleveland. If I do a search in just a 50 mile radius 764 caches come up. More than enough to keep anyone busy.

 

I also applaud the efforts of the Cleveland Metroparks and how they have worked WITH instead of AGAINST geocachers. The Cleveland Metroparks have even held event caches.

 

They are doing a fine job in my opinion to promote geocaching.

[+cache_test_dummies]

No telling how many caches have not been placed because some enthusiast did not stroke the Geoche.com people in the correct manner.

No telling how many conflicts with local authorities, private landowers, and public land managers have been avoided because of the efforts of consciensous people at Geocaching.com.

 

This and the well known disagreement between Buxley's website have proven that Geocache.com has morphed from a site promoting geocaching to a site promoting itself.

Yeah, I hate it when a somebody provides me with a free service and then they have the nerve to sometimes think about their own interests.

[+Sagefox]

As time went by, fewer and fewer new caches were listed, at least in my area. Now, it is very rare to find anything nearby at all.

I ran an nearby cache inquiry from one of your posted finds in the park you wanted to place a cache in and there are 87 caches within a 13.8 mile radius, none of which are on your find list.

 

Are you sure you have tried hard enough?

[+vree]

edit: nevermind. everyone's already jumped all over it, i'm just slow at posting!

Edited April 8, 2005 by vree13

[Keystone]

Posting yet again, this time to add a link to the Recreation Activities Page on the Cleveland MetroParks Website. Notice how geocaching is featured on the page, right alongside golfing, fishing, swimming, hiking and other outdoor activities. Next, click on the link for geocaching.

 

Let me ask those of you who live in other areas -- perhaps in places like Boulder Colorado. Would you not *LOVE* to have a park system like this in your geocaching territory?

[+southdeltan]

In the beginning, it seemed that there was a new cache almost everyday. As time went by, fewer and fewer new caches were listed, at least in my area. Now, it is very rare to find anything nearby at all.

In your area??? There are TWICE as many caches within 100 miles of a cache you found that in my whole state.

 

There are over 60 caches within 10 miles of that cache.

 

You've found a total of 14 in 4 years (unless A) you don't log or B.) this is a sock puppet).

 

Doesn't sound like a problem of numbers to me.

 

sd

[mufasa1023]

sounded like a sock puppet to me.....a very poor use of one at that

[+Mopar]

I'd say something, but KA beat me to everything I was gonna post, and as usual, he did a MUCH better job then I would have.

[+reveritt]

Wow--there are so many new caches in my area that I cannot keep up. The increasing creativity in the cache placements, and the lively debate in the forums make the sport very dynamic and interesting

 

Groundspeak seems to me to be very responsive to the feedback they receive from us.

 

And furthermore...oh, screw it--why am I even bothering to reply to such a lame post!

[+carleenp]

Why post a complaint/geocide note a year late? I am confused as well. Unless this is a sock puppet, in which case I am uninterested and unimpressed.

 

I did bump the geocide thread in case it will be of use to anyone.

[+Kiamichi Muskrat]

Posting again to add this map of caches, centered on the OP's coordinates for his archived cache. If it weren't for Lake Erie, the cache density figure would have been even higher. Note all the "NEW" tags, for caches listed within the past week.

 

How did you render this map? It's very cool!

[+briansnat]

Rather than promote this hobby by providing a sort of bulletin board of cache sites, I found that the people behind Geocache.com are petty and bureacratic in nature by restricting what caches make it onto their webpage. Its not that there is anything illegal or dangerous about the cache itself. Rather it seems to be a matter of dotting the I's and crossing the T'

 

I've found quite the opposite. I've placed over 100 caches and until my last one, not a single one was held up for any "petty" or "bureacratic" reason. My last one was, because I forgot to include the final coordinates for a multi cache. Now I guess I could have posted a rant about how disappointed I was that they wouldn't list a cache of mine because all the Ts weren't crossed. Instead I provided the coordinates and the cache was listed a few hours later.

[Keystone]

Posting again to add this map of caches, centered on the OP's coordinates for his archived cache.  If it weren't for Lake Erie, the cache density figure would have been even higher.  Note all the "NEW" tags, for caches listed within the past week.

 

{Cool map snipped.}

How did you render this map? It's very cool!

This is the Geocaching.com map, which can be accessed by clicking the link on any cache page (well, they don't look quite so cool outside of the U.S., but Jeremy is "workin' on it"). If you are a premium member, you can zoom way out to get an overview of the area. You can save any displayed map by right-clicking on it, as you would with any other image.

 

Since the OP is not a premium member, I posted the map to help demonstrate to him all that he is missing!

[+Markwell]

How did you render this map? It's very cool!

Start with something like this, although my coords aren't exact, because I can't see the archived cache. Then (as a premium member) zoom out.

[+Renegade Knight]

What do you propose to do about it?

[+Miragee]

I think he might be searching for caches using one of those "other" sites, like the alternative in my area that has almost no caches in a metropolitan area of more than a million people.

[+New England n00b]

This thread needs an alarmed llama.

[Jeremy]

[Keystone]

Per your request, New England Noob. Groundspeak volunteers are happy to serve the needs of the geocaching community.

 

[+Kealia]

Why does the OP's post say ringbone?!?!

 

Seriously - are you coming back to comment or was this a post-and-forget about it? If it's the latter, seems like a waste to keep this thread open.

[+Milbank]

It is no wonder that this hobby seems to be dying.

[+New England n00b]

@Jeremy, Keystone Approver: Now that is 'dadgum' good service!

 

EDIT: Mom always told me to say 'Thank you', so... Thank You.

Edited April 8, 2005 by New England n00b

[+Ambrosia]

OBMB!

[+Skyman]

Is that a GPS in hand

 

 

 

[+Skyman]

The picture is from the gallery I know I've seen this pic somewhere but I'm not sure if male of female.

[Detective Comics]

there's just no pleasing some people.

[+New England n00b]

there's just no pleasing some people.

I am displeased with your displeasure.

 

I'll stop now.

[+Runaround]

As a member of NEOGeocachers and a volunteer for the Cleveland Metroparks Geocaching program, I would invite the OP to come to any NEOGeocachers event to discuss with us how we can improve local caching and the interaction with the CMP's. Carly Martin from the CMP's also makes it to some of our events. We are all open to any constructive feedback.

[+Marky]

This is obviously an example of the poor programming on this site. The OP posted this topic nearly a year ago, and it just now shows up. I would be disappointed too!

 

--Marky

[+Runaround]

I would question their judgment anyway since they allowed a particular cache, The Rivers Edge, to be placed in a very dangerous area and a person was recently found drowned nearby.

Thanks KA for posting this interesting comment. I found this cache and didn't find it particularly dangerous, just a tricky hike, especially if you take the direct approach. If you follow the trail it was actually pretty easy.

 

The body found nearby was from someone committing suicide off the nearby bridge. It happens about every 18-24 months. I'm still not sure how that makes the cache dangerous. There was no need to jump off the bridge to find it.

[+Miragee]

. . . Never mind . . .

Edited April 8, 2005 by idiosyncratic

[+Team SAR-Dogs]

This thread isn't even worth replying to, so I won't!

[+Moose Mob]

Yeah, me neither.

[+BlueDeuce]

Why does the OP's post say ringbone?!?!

 

Seriously - are you coming back to comment or was this a post-and-forget about it? If it's the latter, seems like a waste to keep this thread open.

This cacher just lives in a different time stream. Please wait, (let's see)....1.56 years for a response.

[Keystone]

I would question their judgment anyway since they allowed a particular cache, The Rivers Edge, to be placed in a very dangerous area and a person was recently found drowned nearby.

Thanks KA for posting this interesting comment. I found this cache and didn't find it particularly dangerous, just a tricky hike, especially if you take the direct approach. If you follow the trail it was actually pretty easy.

 

The body found nearby was from someone committing suicide off the nearby bridge. It happens about every 18-24 months. I'm still not sure how that makes the cache dangerous. There was no need to jump off the bridge to find it.

I also found this cache (under my player account, of course). It's really not that close to the river's edge! An entirely safe cache if there ever was one.

 

Normally I don't post private correspondence sent to me by cache hiders. Believe me, there are some gems that I'd love to share. But when someone says I'm "petty and bureaucratic" I think I'm entitled to answer back with the facts, so that the readers can draw their own conclusions.

 

May I take this opportunity to thank you for your work with the Cleveland MetroParks, both individually as a volunteer, and as a member of NEOGeo. Your efforts make it possible for people like me to enjoy these parks in our geotravels.

[+robert]

This thread needs an alarmed llama.

TINA! Come eat your ham!

[+CompuCash]

HEY OP!!!

 

You better get it right when you post here -

 

These people will eat you up (and that's a compliment to all of you!).

 

If you refuse to get permission to place a cache in a park that requires it then you have no gripe at all against GC.com. AND! you have nothing coming at all - certainly NOT sympathy, not from me, these people, nor CG.com.

 

Suggest you take your complaints to the lamp post out front.

 

good luck and happing caching -

 

cc\

Edited April 9, 2005 by CompuCash

[+tls11823]

45 responses as I write this, and nobody comes close to supporting what the OP says. And of course, he/she is nowhere to be seen.

 

Ever feel that maybe it's you?

 

Now I have to get back to this dying hobby before all the caches and cachers disappear.

[+Big Dawgg & Cardinal Girl]

I live in a rural area of Nebraska where I have to go out 70 miles before I get 100 caches. I couldn't imagine what I would do with over 1600 in that area. Quit complaining, play the game by the rules, or get out. It's that simple.