Two Or More F.t.f.s On One Cache

[+Jamie Z]

Here's a topic I haven't seen brought up.

 

I don't intend this as a debate, but more of a curiousity.

 

When hunting as a group, and you come across a virgin cache, do you all log (or otherwise claim) FTF for that cache, or does just the first person to find it do that?

 

I've only been on one group hunt for a FTF, and I was the one who found it. None of the other cachers claimed FTF, and several commented that I was FTF.

 

I certainly don't consider this a big deal, but I ran across some caches lately where two people who were hunting together both posted FTF in their logs, so I wondered how other people handle this.

 

Jamie

[+Stunod]

That's happened to me only once, and we let the person who saw the cache first claim the FTF (and the prize). It's not a big deal to me either.

[+WeightMan]

After all FTF means First and only the one who saw it first can really claim that honot.

[+PC Painter]

What if you both spot it at the same time? Should I keep a stick handy, for poking my brother in the eye with, in order to grab it first?

 

[nobby.nobbs]

not that it really means a heck of a lot really just say so on the log. noramlly first person to find would claim it. if you both do at same time then say so!

[+sept1c_tank]

If you have a team account, everyone, as a member of the team can claim FTF. If it's a group of people caching with individual accounts, then you have to arm wrestle to determine who gets the FTF.

 

After all, how many First to Finds can there be?

[+Team Perks]

Honestly...What does it really matter? Last I heard, there was no global award for most FTF's.

 

If you're with a group of cachers, and you all feel you earned a cumulative FTF, and if you value the "honor" of FTF that much, then go for it. I probably wouldn't unless there were extenuating circumstances, but whether you claim FTF or not doesn't affect me at all either way.

[+clearpath]

If a group of people find the cache first, I say all in the group claim a FTF. It's really up to the group how they divide the FTF prize (arm wrestling works). Other than a potential FTF prize what is the big deal? There is no tracking feature for FTFs on GC.com. So really who cares how many people claim the FTF...

[+MickEMT]

I was at an event cache where a group of us just called it a "team FTF".

Of course, at another event, we had a bit of a different ending.

One of the "event caches" hadnt ben found and a large group all hit the area at the same time. One lady found the container first, and called us over to see the hide ( which was VERY well done) when we picked the container up, it was PADLOCKED!!!!!!! There was a note on it to go to the coords on the note to find the combination.

Luckilly enough, I found the combo 1st, all of us tramped back only to find that the husband of the lady who spotted it had picked the lock and signed the book!

She was decent enough to call that cheating and tore the page from the logbook and insisted that I had the FTF.

[+WaldenRun]

This can be handled by letting the person who spotted the cache first be the first to log it online.

 

Of course, that (re-)rasies the ethical question of whether EVERYBODY should wait for the FTF to get their log online.

 

-WR

[+ChileHead]

Of course, that (re-)rasies the ethical question of whether EVERYBODY should wait for the FTF to get their log online.

I don't believe you should wait for the FTF-er to get their log online. What if they can't get back to a computer to post their find for a while? The cache would still be shown as "not found", which may make some people upset if they rushed out to find it, only to see it had already been found multiple times.

 

Around here, "a while" is anything more than a couple hours. There are lots of people competing for FTFs, so I always try to post my find as soon as I can, even if I'm not the FTF and the FTFer hasn't posted yet.

[+Old Joe Clark]

Our group decided to make humor of the FTF thing on Scout Mitchell. Redcatcher58 was the actual first finder. We agreed to act as if we were alone and each write a humorous log claiming ftf and claim to have seen no one on the trail. ojc

[+robert]

This can be handled by letting the person who spotted the cache first be the first to log it online.

When we cache as a group, nobody "calls the cache" when they find it. We let everyone have the chance to find the cache, and "earn" the smiley face. When the cache gets pulled from its spot, we usually let the one that found it first log it first, thus giving them the "FTF" and first to sign the logbook. Logging online we don't usually worry about, nobody's that uptight about it here.

[+Spencersb]

We had this situation at a recent FTF in Shelby Farms here. I logged that we shared FTF, the others didn't note anything. I haven't cached with anyone yet that really would make a big deal out of it. If anything, it should be the first one to spot it, but in a group that could just as easily be any one of us. So I won't claim FTF when with a group, even in the unlikely event that I AM the first one to spot it!

[+Spencersb]

Around here, "a while" is anything more than a couple hours. There are lots of people competing for FTFs, so I always try to post my find as soon as I can, even if I'm not the FTF and the FTFer hasn't posted yet.

Same here, I agree with Chilehead. If I know FTF is already snagged, I won't break my neck to get out there RIGHT NOW!!! We were talking about this recently, about how many FTFs we had, I think I've got f or 6, one local guy has like 30 out of about 160 finds! You gotta put a "boot" on his truck tire to beat him out there!

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I cache with groups more often than alone, and we all like to chase FTFs - whoever spots it first may or may not call it immediately - he/she may allow the others to find it. Regardless, the first to spot it gets FTF and the rest of us usually confirm it online as a way to say "Good Job!".

 

Interestingly, most of us leave the FTF prize for the next finder.

 

We have one finder that gets most FTFs within a few hours of them being posted - he signs the logbook but doesn't post the find online until someone else (STF)does - Can't tell ya how many times I have seen the cache, thought "Yes, FTF!" only to find his moniker in the log! Evil! But funny, and good for a laugh.

 

Ed

Edited December 23, 2004 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+ibycus]

Recently had a case where no one felt justified in claiming a FTF. It was a multi. He was going from point 2 to point 3, I was going from 1 to 2. Anyways, I arrived at point 3 to see him still there searching for the next clue. I offered some ideas on getting to the final, involving a calculator.

He took out a calculator, and punched the numbers in, and we headed to what we thought was the final location. Turns out nothing was there. He punched the numbers a different way and we got a different set of numbers. I went off to the other site. Still no luck. Ran in to him again at his car, where we chatted for a bit, and both agreed that we'd better go home and do some bench work on this one. Anyways, I got home (about 15-25 minutes away), and ran the numbers again both ways he ran them on the trail, and got the same numbers (+/- a couple of cm). Anyways, I rushed back out to the cache site, to find the log already signed by the guy I was with. Seems he re-ran the numbers in the car after I left. He admited though that he probably wouldn't have thought of the solution anywhere near as quickly as I had, and had slowed me down considerably, so offered me the FTF honour. I felt that as he actually found it first, that honour should be his, regardless of how we both got there. So no one felt deserving on this one.

We both logged online at virtually the same time (while I was writing my log, his was posted).

[WH]

FTF is a rather abstract concept anyways. Theres no way to track it online and theres no official FTF stat. While its fun to get to a cache first, the designation FTF is really meaningless.

[+Medic005]

If caching in a group, I would give the FTF credit to the actual person who spotted the cache first, it only seems fair and it would be rare that more than one person in the group would spot it at the same time.

[+Renegade Knight]

It's probably a function of your groups hunting style.

 

Groups tend to fall into two types. The Three Muskateers where it's all for one and one for all, so any one who finds it, the group has found it.

 

Then the othe group where everyone finds it sneaks off and says "found it" while the rest of the people also try to find the cache. This group makes everyone find the cache individualy.

 

The first group everyone is FTF. The second, someone found it first.

 

My preference is Three Muskateers. If there was a nice FTF prize whoever wanted it could have it, and if we all wanted it, then we might draw straws, flip a coin, or go with the actual person to spot it first depending on how the stars line up in that moment.

Edited December 23, 2004 by Renegade Knight

[+Go JayBee]

I know this may be a little off topic....but,

I tend to avoid being FTF (First To Find)......I would rather be FTF (Fourth To Find) or (Fifteenth To Find).

 

But, I agree with most, in that when caching with a group, the person who was just next to the cache and went looking elsewhere, sometimes gets skunked by another looking over their shoulder. That's just the way it goes.

 

JayBee

[+Mudfrog]

Honestly...What does it really matter? Last I heard, there was no global award for most FTF's.

 

If you're with a group of cachers, and you all feel you earned a cumulative FTF, and if you value the "honor" of FTF that much, then go for it. I probably wouldn't unless there were extenuating circumstances, but whether you claim FTF or not doesn't affect me at all either way.

We've been with groups before when virgin caches were found. Im sure some think the FTF should go to the person spotting the cache first but as far as i know, no one ive ever been with has thought of it that way. We all claimed the FTF on those.

 

I would say if its that important to you, then your group ought to decide on that before even going out!

[+ZackJones]

At the November Georgia Geocaching Associating meeting we did a canoe trip where those of us on the canoe trip were the first ones to find the cache. We all agreed that we could each claim FTF since we found them as part of a group outing. It really made for a fun afternoon except for the part where I went for a little involuntary swim, that is

[+WeightMan]

The great thing about this is that there are no rules on this and we can each do as we please. Despite what I said earlier there is one cache that I claim joint FTF with another cacher. The day the cache appeared on the list we both went out to the location. Geodeez and Geodude were both there before me and had done all the preliminary waypoints. We conversed for a bit and I went on to tdo the waypoints while they searched for the box. I completed the preliminaries and joined them in the search for the final. Eventually we gave up. It seems that the box had been muggled before it was approved. Since we had looked in the right spot, the owner met Geodeez and Geodude on her way to replace the box. I then met her at the park where she gave me the new puzzle. I worked out the coords and walked over and retrieved the box. Geodeez and Geodude were the first to sign the log, but I was the first to find the box as hidden. We both rightly claim FTF on this cache.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Caching in a group after an event we MEFFed several caches - all logged them individually, but referenced Team Name Co-Meff. I acknowledged in a couple of my logs that, "some of the members of the team were closer to the MEFF than others" just fun

[+Marky]

For my own personal statistics, I don't count group FTFs in my own count, even if I'm the one who found the cache. It's not the same thing to me.

 

--Marky

[+BlueDeuce]

When hunting as a group, and you come across a virgin cache, do you all log (or otherwise claim) FTF for that cache, or does just the first person to find it do that?

Actually neither. We don't claim anything, just that we found it. It doesn't even matter who logs on line first. (I've done two FTF group finds.)

 

When FTF get me a free beer, then it'll matter.

[+Tuck Sackett]

We had this situation at a recent FTF in Shelby Farms here.  I logged that we shared FTF, the others didn't note anything.  I haven't cached with anyone yet that really would make a big deal out of it. If anything, it should be the first one to spot it, but in a group that could just as easily be any one of us.  So I won't claim FTF when with a group, even in the unlikely event that I AM the first one to spot it!

 

This was my first group FTF and as I am more tactile than visual, I was digging while Spencersb was looking from a different angle. He spotted it from his side of things before I got through the debris on my side. He was the FTF . As long as we find it and a certain nocturnal bird doesn't get every FTF in town who cares?

 

Merry Christmas

 

Tuck

[+Two Geeks and a GPS]

Many people found this cache Northern Edge of Insanity

and refused to accept FTF honors because they had gotten hints from the owner. We were determined to get it w/o hints and claim FTF. Sadly we did need hints after our 4th or 5th time out. Somebody did actually claim FTF w/o hints though!

[+BadAndy]

In the end...there can be only one. First to touch is FTF. An eye poking stick is a good idea....as long as you can run fast.

[Dosido]

I went out on a caching trip with a buddy of mine, and we ended up being the first to seek a cache.

[Dosido]

I went out on a caching trip with a good friend of mine, and we ended up being the first to seek a cache.

 

I don't see FTF as being abstract at all. It's an absolute. You're either first to find it, or you're not. Whether there's a way to track that online or off is irrelevant.

 

However, that doesn't mean the other guy didn't cheat!

 

Here are our logs for the cache:

 

November 27 by tomnmillie (168 found)

That's right baby! TnM with an unexpected FTF right in front of Dosido!!!!

That's what we call poetry in the biz! TNLN

 

Peace

 

November 27 by Dosido (313 found)

Found this with a cheating TnM. No other reason he might have snaked the FTF from me. If I were the owner of this cache, I think I might delete his find, but that's just me

Anyway, I grabbed STF honors (if there ever were such a thing) and took the *Donatello* TB. Thanks for the cache!

 

Not that I'm bitter, or anything

[+In Search Of Faeries]

Here in my neck of the woods (DFW Texas) It seems to be the norm, that if there are several individuals caching together, and they find the cache, then they all post co-first to find's.

 

It's perfectly fine with me, if all involved are cool with sharing the honor, makes no difference in my humble opinion.

[+Spencersb]

As long as we find it and a certain nocturnal bird doesn't get every FTF in town who cares?

 

Merry Christmas

 

Tuck

Reminds me of Gandalf's line in FOTR, that "nocturnal bird" can

"move in sunlight, and cover great distances at speed!"

Like your new avatar, too. Looks like Roland of Gilead.

 

Also, for BadAndy, first to touch? If I spot it first, I'm not going to reach for it, that would give it away! In fact, I may move 20 feet away to another likely spot and get "caught" covering something back up!

Edited December 24, 2004 by Spencersb

[+Team Neos]

I ususally cache with my husband, and we log to separate accounts.

 

When we are caching together, we tend to think of the find as a team effort---He found the cache to hunt, I got the GPSr ready, he drove, I navigated, he found the right trail, I found the actual cache, etc...

 

As to how we log the cache, whoever actually spots the cache first logs the fact that "we" were FTF and the other person tells the story or talks about anything we trade. If we ever spot the cache at the same moment, I guess he will win bragging rights, because I sure couldn't win an arm wrestling match against him!

[+Web-ling]

I've never understood what the big deal is to be FTF. Even for us number hounds, there's no extra score for being FTF.

 

I tend to avoid FTF caches. Too often, the coords are wrong, or there's something else messed up with the cache. I'd rather let several other people find it first, read their logs, then decide if it's a cache I even want to do. I'd also rather let the new caches in an area build up a bit before I hit that area in order to save time and gas.

 

That said, I don't really think it matters if all cachers in a FTF group claim FTF honors or not.

[+WeightMan]

I've never understood what the big deal is to be FTF. Even for us number hounds, there's no extra score for being FTF.

 

I tend to avoid FTF caches. Too often, the coords are wrong, or there's something else messed up with the cache. I'd rather let several other people find it first, read their logs, then decide if it's a cache I even want to do. I'd also rather let the new caches in an area build up a bit before I hit that area in order to save time and gas.

 

That said, I don't really think it matters if all cachers in a FTF group claim FTF honors or not.

What you said here is all well and good, but other people like to be FTF and do not understand why some cachers are so into quick and easy finds just o build up the numbers. You avoid FTF caches because they are harder at times for several reasons. Others prefer them because they are harder to do. The last sentence in the main paragraph says it all. You prefer to do quick and easy caches. If that is how you want to play the game that's fine. I prefer, at times, to spend an hour or two walking into a cache site and making one find. At other times I will do several quick ones in that time. It depends on my mood that day. I could care less about the total number of finds that I have. I do this because I enjoy the hunt. FTF caches are sometime hard, but that is what makes them fun to do. You play your game and I will play mine.

 

Have fun caching no matter how you paly the game.

[+fly46]

I'm amazed that it took thirty logs to simply say "Log it however you'd like, people do it as it suits them"

 

My first cache was signed by three different people who were caching together. As far as I'm concerned, they're the first finders because they did it at the same time.

 

If you found a cache and then ten minutes later someone else came along, then no, you're not both first to find.

[+Jamie Z]

I'm amazed that it took thirty logs to simply say "Log it however you'd like, people do it as it suits them"

Well, if you read my original post, I didn't ask that question. I asked how people did it. Most people responded by indicating how they usually handle it, which is what I was looking for.

 

Of course it's "Log it however you'd like, people do it as it suits them," that's stating the obvious. I wouldn't ask that.

 

Thanks for all the responses. It's interesting to read how people handle this situation differently.

 

Jamie

[+Ltljon]

With only two to our team we sometimes make mention of who spotted it first. Sometimes the logs might read "We were first to find".

[+caveman2040]

I dont chase FTF s anymore, I beat a cacher to one by five minutes one time that FTF means alot. I felt bad when I saw the look on his face. If I get one now its been there 2 or 3 days and usually in a bad/difficult place and I will get the find to let the owner know that someone was interested enough to look for it. Lotta times they are pretty cool.

Edited December 28, 2004 by caveman2040