Unreasonable Cache Owner?

[+RamJetta]

I was out hiking while on a business trip. I carry my GPS along loaded with waypoints for the area at times like these in case there is a cache nearby. I noticed that "GCHBNB - Rio De Flag" was near where I was walking so I left the trail to search for it. I had no trade items so I just signed the log book. When i went to log the cache i saw a note from the cache owner in BIG BOLD RED CAPITAL letters warning me not to be specific about the location of the entrance to the cache area or my log would be deleted. So I left a vague log entry on the web site. The cache owner has since contacted me threatening to delete my log because my log entry is too vague and he does not believe that I found the cache. I have e-mailed him asking him to check the log book, but he refuses unless I give him a detailed description of the cache!

 

I think this guy is taking himself and this game (it is just a game, right!?) WAY too seriously. I just don't like being called a liar and/or cheater when I have done neither.

My log entry is in the log book in the cache. I don't thing my log should be deleted unless the cache owner checks that and then disagrees that I have found the cache.

 

I think the object of this is to have fun. Let's keep the anger out of it!

 

Thanks,

Team RamJetta

Prescott, AZ

[+briansnat]

I see nothing wrong with your log. You found the cache, signed the paper log and that should be enough for the cache owner.

[+Milbank]

I think the object of this is to have fun. Let's keep the anger out of it!

 

Yep, the object is to have fun.

 

If it was me I would not even reply to the owners email anymore.

 

You found it, you logged the book at the site.

 

You found it, you know it.

 

If the owner of the cache wants to delete your logs so what.

 

You had your fun of finding it and that's what count. Not the number of finds by your name.

[+Sparky-Watts]

Log too vague?!?!?!?!? Sounds to me that's what the owner wants! I have never seen a cache with that warning on it! Sure, I've seen them that don't want you to say "Hey, it's hidden in the hollow stump by the big oak tree along the trail at marker #3!", but his warnings are a bit...no, a lot...over the top!!! You found it, you logged it, you keep it! I'd be tempted to edit my log to say "DPM" after an email like you received......

[+harleycache]

The owner warns "in BIG BOLD RED CAPITAL letters ... not to be specific about the location..." then threatens "to delete my log because my log entry is too vague?" Sorry, let him delete if he wants, you found it, you logged it, it's your find. If he deletes, just relog. See who tires first.

[+CompuCash]

ok so what is DMP?

 

is ther a listing of all the abrevations you guys use - I'm sorta new here -

keep seeing TB also.

[+briansnat]

ok so what is DMP?

 

Its DPM, which stands for Des Palourdes Mortes (French for The Dead Clams). It a code meaning that the cache stinks.

 

Long story about how that came about,but if you search the northeast forum for the word "clams" you will probably find the story.

Edited June 27, 2004 by briansnat

[+CompuCash]

pardon - my dexlicsia is showing -

 

wow that was an esoteric reference -

 

so what makes a cache a stinker?

 

In my few I have see a few that were a little disappointing after the find but I would not call them stinkers - maybe I'm too easy

[+Gizmo & Brazin]

I think your log is fine. I have to wonder if others have had this same problem, as some of the other entries are vague (as per owners request) too. I have seen logs in our area that are nothing more than TNLNSL and those count. Maybe he was in doubt because you said something about finding it accidentally. Either way, you played fair and by the rules. Your log is still listed and unless it's deleted, forget about him.

[+Seamus]

so what makes a cache a stinker?

Probably the bit about the owner threatening deletion of the log for being vague about the find, after the finder followed the directions on the cache page and left an intentionally vague log.

 

I agree with the previous opinion: you found it, you know it, you signed the logbook. If the owner wants to delete your electronic log, fine. If the owner wants to go out to the cache and rip your page out of the logbook, fine. It's when the owner wants to have you lobotomized to remove the memory of having found it that you should start to worry.

[+RamJetta]

With all due respect to the cache owner. The cache does not stink. It is well hidden, in a good container and the contents are in good condition.

 

Thank you all for the advice. I will officially forget about it and just keep on caching.

[+harleycache]

It's when the owner wants to have you lobotomized to remove the memory of having found it that you should start to worry.

[+Team Lightfoot]

That's just crazy!

 

I wonder what that cache owner is smoking?

[+Ed & Julie]

I read your post on the cache page, and I'm thinking it's your first line that is throwing off the cache owner:

 

June 24 by RamJetta (164 found)

I found this one by accident while hiking.

 

Had you not wrote "by accident" I bet all would have been well.

 

Just my .02 thrown in..

 

Ed

Edited June 27, 2004 by The Badge & the Butterfly

[+Doggiewoggie]

That's just crazy!

 

I wonder what that cache owner is smoking?

You read his profile, right?

 

I, for one, am sending him a little note, asking him not to delete this log (don't worry--I'll be polite ) Y'all should do that too, I guess.

[+woof n lulu]

With all due respect to the cache owner. The cache does not stink. It is well hidden, in a good container and the contents are in good condition.

 

Thank you all for the advice. I will officially forget about it and just keep on caching.

Best way to handle it. You are gonna run into all kinds when you cache, and getting into an email war is never a good solution. If you have explained your position to the cache owner, that is about all you can do. The knowledge that you found it and know you did...nobody can take that away.

 

I personally will not send an email to the owner, I think it just tends to inflame the situation.

 

IMO

 

lulu

[+harleycache]

That's just crazy!

 

I wonder what that cache owner is smoking?

You read his profile, right?

 

That explains it!

 

[+Doggiewoggie]

 

I personally will not send an email to the owner, I think it just tends to inflame the situation.

Ay, I don't want to inflame the situation...

[+woof n lulu]

 

I personally will not send an email to the owner, I think it just tends to inflame the situation.

Ay, I don't want to inflame the situation...

I did not say you did...do you think you will be the only one who reads this and sends an email?

[+Renegade Knight]

This isn't as complex as everyone seems to be making it.

 

The cache owner right or wrong has the right to delete logs. They sent an email that confused the finder, but it did make a specific request.

 

The solution is to email back "I was trying to be vague about the cache location as requested in the cache description, if I change my log to this... would that work?" Done. You keep the find, the owner is happy, nobody gets hurt and and everyone walks away.

 

For the record a ton of my logs have nothing whatsoever to do with the cache and I would of probably had the same run in.

[+Seamus]

...and if there is still an issue that leads to the deletion of the log and you want to keep your stats accurate, rather than pressing the issue further, just log a find on one of your own caches (or a friend's, as I see that your profile doesn't show any placed) with an explanation in the log entry that it's for a find on another cache which had its log deleted.

 

I think it's probably just a simple misunderstanding, and it will be resolved soon enough though.

[phantom]

The owner wants the entry to be vague?!?! He oughta practice what he preaches, the cache page itself goes on and on about water drainage and water flow from Flagstaff. In the imortal words of Homer Simpson, "BORING!"

 

I agree with everyone else, you found it, you were there, just move one. The owner's profile would appear to indicate why they are 'concerned' with vagueness.

 

Cache on!

[BassoonPilot]

So if the owner says your log was too vague, delete it yourself and post the most explicit, revealing log you can write. The cache owner will delete the log and you will be denied a legitimate find, but so what? Unreasonable rules/demands by cache owners is another excellent reason not to log finds online.

Edited June 27, 2004 by BassoonPilot

[Pilgrim, Rhubarb, & Sweet Pea]

Sounds like the cache owner needs to switch to decaf. And maybe find that little 'encrypt' button if he thinks there's too much detail in a log. Sheesh.

[+Mopar]

I dunno, the way the cache hider is so concerned about giving away too much detail, it almost looks like he's trying to hide something.

Edited June 27, 2004 by Mopar

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I was out hiking while on a business trip. I carry my GPS along loaded with waypoints for the area at times like these in case there is a cache nearby. I noticed that "GCHBNB - Rio De Flag" was near where I was walking so I left the trail to search for it. I had no trade items so I just signed the log book. When i went to log the cache i saw a note from the cache owner in BIG BOLD RED CAPITAL letters warning me not to be specific about the location of the entrance to the cache area or my log would be deleted. So I left a vague log entry on the web site. The cache owner has since contacted me threatening to delete my log because my log entry is too vague and he does not believe that I found the cache. I have e-mailed him asking him to check the log book, but he refuses unless I give him a detailed description of the cache!

 

I think this guy is taking himself and this game (it is just a game, right!?) WAY too seriously. I just don't like being called a liar and/or cheater when I have done neither.

My log entry is in the log book in the cache. I don't thing my log should be deleted unless the cache owner checks that and then disagrees that I have found the cache.

 

I think the object of this is to have fun. Let's keep the anger out of it!

 

Thanks,

Team RamJetta

Prescott, AZ

You know, I've been through Flagstaff loads of times. I've always wanted to hunt for that one since it is so close, yet so far from easy access. If the owner is going to treat finders like this, I won't bother.

[+Go JayBee]

What a "tweaker" this cache owner is.

 

Sorry, but this guy SHOULD switch to decaf as someone has already written.

[+shunra]

So if the owner says your log was too vague, delete it yourself and post the most explicit, revealing log you can write. The cache owner will delete the log and you will be denied a legitimate find, but so what? Unreasonable rules/demands by cache owners is another excellent reason not to log finds online.

Or better: post an additional and very explicit Find log for the same day, and send a message to the owner, saying that you'd like to respect his preferences, but that they're not entirely clear, and whether he would please one of the two Find logs, and keep whichever he thinks is better.

[+shunra]

I dunno, the way the cache hider is so concerned about giving away too much detail, it almost looks like he's trying to hide something.

[CoyoteRed]

The cache owner right or wrong has the right to delete logs.

No, he has the ability to delete logs. He should only be deleting logs which give away too much information or is not a legitimate find. End of story.

 

People should really watch getting militant with others. Caches are far too vulnerable to get nasty like this.

[+wildearth2001]

I was out hiking while on a business trip.  I carry my GPS along loaded with waypoints for the area at times like these in case there is a cache nearby.  I noticed that  "GCHBNB - Rio De Flag" was near where I was walking so I left the trail to search for it.  I had no trade items so I just signed the log book.  When i went to log the cache i saw a note from the cache owner in BIG BOLD RED CAPITAL letters warning me not to be specific about the  location of the entrance to the cache area or my log would be deleted.  So I left a vague log entry on the web site.  The cache owner has since contacted me threatening to delete my log because my log entry is too vague and he does not believe that I found the cache.  I have e-mailed him asking him to check the log book, but he refuses unless I give him a detailed description of the cache!

 

I think this guy is taking himself and this game (it is just a game, right!?) WAY too seriously.  I just don't like being called a liar and/or cheater when I have done neither.

My log entry is in the log book in the cache.  I don't thing my log should be deleted unless the cache owner checks that and then disagrees that I have found the cache.

 

I think the object of this is to have fun.  Let's keep the anger out of it!

 

Thanks,

Team RamJetta

Prescott, AZ

I have looked at that cache page before, when I was on a boy scout "campout" (we actually stayed in a 5 room hotel SUITE, with fully stocked kitchenett etc) flagsaff. I was gonna try and hunt for several caches nearby our "campground" and if we headed in that direction, the cache in question. When I saw that warning I looked on a map and really didnt see what his big deal was. Turns out I never found any of the caches because nobody wanted to go with. So I also think I wont bother looking for the cache if the owner is gonna be like this.

Edited June 27, 2004 by wildearth2001

[+5]

"The City of Flagstaff is located in southern Coconino County approximately 150 miles north of Phoenix. Flagstaff is surrounded by the Coconino National Forest, an area that contains a large number of natural, scenic, and recreation attractions. Due to its 7,000-foot elevation, Flagstaff experiences heavy snowfall during the winter and mild temperatures during the summer.

 

To get credit for this cache you must not log any hints, as to location of parking or entrance to the cache area. This is due to the nature of this find, and we will delete your log if you leave any discription as where to enter the Rio de Flag cache area!

 

The Rio de Flag is a tributary of the San Francisco Wash, which feeds into the Little Colorado River. Originating on the southwestern slopes of the San Francisco Mountains north of Flagstaff, the Rio de Flag flows over various types of terrain: the wide, flat valleys of the Fort Valley region; the steep, narrow canyons north of Flagstaff, and the wide, flat-bottomed canyons southeast of Flagstaff. The total drainage area of the Rio de Flag watershed is approximately 116 square miles. The total drainage area above the Flagstaff city limits is roughly 50 square miles. The elevation of the drainage area as a whole ranges from approximately 12,356 feet to 6,800 feet.

Clay Avenue Wash flows west from Observatory Mesa, joining the Rio de Flag (via an underground culvert) near the intersection of Butler and San Francisco Streets. Other smaller tributaries to Rio de Flag within the city limits are Penstock Avenue Wash, Peaceful Valley Wash, Country Club Wash, Fanning Drive Wash, Switzer Canyon Wash, Spruce Avenue Wash, West Street Wash, Bow and Arrow Wash, and Peak View Wash.

 

The Rio de Flag originates in several springs on the south slope of the San Francisco Peaks: Little Leroux Spring, Big Leroux Spring, Taylor Spring, and Chimney Spring. The amount of water from these sources is not enough to fill the channel. Since most of the south slope of the mountain drains into the Rio de Flag, heavy thunderstorms and snow melt produce water that flows all the way through town. A heavy snow pack and cool temperatures can result in continual flow well into April.

 

Beside snow pack and temperature, soil structure in the watershed and the character of the stream bed also affect stream flow. The pristine soil on the gentle slope of the mountain has a structure which absorbs moisture, holding it for plants and other organisms with slow release of high quality water over time. Fire can change the soil and its ability to hold and release moisture. The large amounts of paved surfaces in town contribute to rapid runoff of precipitation carrying various pollutants, especially petrochemicals from the street which are poisonous to fish and invertebrates.

 

The substrate of the Rio is basalt, an igneous rock, containing many vertical cracks. Water percolates through these cracks until it reaches the underlying sandstone (containing clay) where it pools or finds other small crevices to follow. While heavy flows can be deep and have the ability to cut the channel, the small amounts of water from various springs normally disappear quickly into the porous stream bed.

 

South of town, there is perennial water at the confluence of Sinclair Wash and the old channel of the Rio. Flagstaff's treatment plant for reclaimed water has its discharge pipe at this location, and there are a couple of ponds there on either side of I-40. East of the Flagstaff Mall, the Wildcat Sewage Treatment Plant discharges effluent into the Rio, contributing to a perennial flow northeast of town as the Rio heads toward the Little Colorado River.

 

The capacity to carry discharge varies considerably along the Rio. At Meade Lane, south of "The Narrows" at the Museum of Northern Arizona, the capacity is 4,800 cfs. In the center of town where the channel was realigned to its present position between the Flagstaff Public Library and City Hall, the capacity drops to about 200 cfs. Where the Rio intersects with Sinclair Wash at Lonetree Rd, the capacity jumps back up again. Unlike the normal trend of a river to carry larger discharges further downstream, the diversion of the river resulted in a drastic decline in the middle of Flagstaff of the Rio's capacity to keep water in its channel."

 

Zzzzzzzz

 

Hmm...Uh...Oh ya...I'm up, I'm up....what time is it? Coffee?

[+AJ of Dunbar]

heheee the owners S/N is team 420, click his prfile, LOL

Edited June 28, 2004 by AJ of Dunbar

[+Teach2Learn]

In response to AJ's profile suggestion:

 

I wonder how that profile information got approved. Well, it may answer the question about the deleted log. Perhaps team 420 forgot having placed the cache or doesn't even remember deleting the log due to short-term memory loss. Obviously, communication may also be a problem.

[+Sparky-Watts]

In response to AJ's profile suggestion:

 

I wonder how that profile information got approved. Well, it may answer the question about the deleted log. Perhaps team 420 forgot having placed the cache or doesn't even remember deleting the log due to short-term memory loss. Obviously, communication may also be a problem.

I agree, it's certainly not a "family friendly" profile page. Too bad there's not a "Report This Profile" button.

[+Seamus]

In response to AJ's profile suggestion:

 

I wonder how that profile information got approved. Well, it may answer the question about the deleted log. Perhaps team 420 forgot having placed the cache or doesn't even remember deleting the log due to short-term memory loss.  Obviously, communication may also be a problem.

I agree, it's certainly not a "family friendly" profile page. Too bad there's not a "Report This Profile" button.

As a user can edit their profile at any time, there is no approval process, and with the number of users on the site, there really is no way to police what goes into the pages other than self-moderation.

 

A while back, I seem to recall an issue that came up here in the forums about another cacher's profile. If I recall correctly, it was taken care of fairly quickly. I think there might have been mention of an email address for addressing these issues, but I don't remember what it was.

[+Sparky-Watts]

In response to AJ's profile suggestion:

 

I wonder how that profile information got approved. Well, it may answer the question about the deleted log. Perhaps team 420 forgot having placed the cache or doesn't even remember deleting the log due to short-term memory loss.  Obviously, communication may also be a problem.

I agree, it's certainly not a "family friendly" profile page. Too bad there's not a "Report This Profile" button.

As a user can edit their profile at any time, there is no approval process, and with the number of users on the site, there really is no way to police what goes into the pages other than self-moderation.

 

A while back, I seem to recall an issue that came up here in the forums about another cacher's profile. If I recall correctly, it was taken care of fairly quickly. I think there might have been mention of an email address for addressing these issues, but I don't remember what it was.

Contact@geocaching.com

 

Already sent one.

[phantom]

Brownies anyone?

 

[+Team Lightfoot]

Flagstaff is in CO Admin's jurisdiction...

 

Maybe we should ask him for a ruling?

[+AJ of Dunbar]

Flagstaff is in CO Admin's jurisdiction...

 

Maybe we should ask him for a ruling?

well if we do that, that member is as good as dead! dont mess with a mod! lol.

 

thats only a joke in relation to current events unfolding on this baord. im not saying CO and or any mods/approvers on this board are mean, power hungry etc,its just a joke so please dont lynch me.

[CoyoteRed]

What, so people can't make a political statement now?

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, before you go start foaming at the mouth and thumping the FAQ and guidelines, I know all about caches are not supposed to have an agenda, so no need to even go there.

 

My point is his personal profile. What's wrong with it? Ooh, he's advocating an illegal substance! Big deal, you wouldn't be able to take a toot of your favorite spirit if it weren't for people like them back during Prohibition.

 

No, I'm not say anything goes, but at least bash the guy for acting like a threatening jerk, not for a political stance that has nothing to do with caching.

[+Sparky-Watts]

What, so people can't make a political statement now?

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, before you go start foaming at the mouth and thumping the FAQ and guidelines, I know all about caches are not supposed to have an agenda, so no need to even go there.

 

My point is his personal profile. What's wrong with it? Ooh, he's advocating an illegal substance! Big deal, you wouldn't be able to take a toot of your favorite spirit if it weren't for people like them back during Prohibition.

 

No, I'm not say anything goes, but at least bash the guy for acting like a threatening jerk, not for a political stance that has nothing to do with caching.

Hey, I'm not a user (anymore), and I'm all for the legalization of marijuana, but I just didn't feel that is something that should be posted on a family-friendly site. But, I've just blown that by posting my opinions on the subject. It doesn't matter that it's a "personal" profile, it's still in the public domain, accessible by any member of the community, young or old.

[+Beta Test]

Brownies anyone?

 

[CoyoteRed]

...but I just didn't feel that is something that should be posted on a family-friendly site.

Why? I don't understand.

 

It's not as if his profile--or siggy--is pointing to a highly disturbing photo!

 

I take exception to censorship be it this guy's profile or Team 360's avatar (which isn't anymore provoacative than CurmudgeonlyGal's though less apropos.)

 

As a parent, I'd much rather my children view references to illicit drugs and nudity than violence.

 

Not trying to get your siggy banned or anything--not my intent in the least--but if it's for the children...

[+TeamGeoWalkerNJ]

Cache location... Flagstaff

 

Owner profile location of "Four Corners" area

 

Total Est. Time: 5 hours, 17 minutes Total Est. Distance: 226.63 miles

 

Sounds familiar.

 

Funny how they also ask not to be specific, but with the coordinates, and the detais in all the "appropriate" logs.. I could find this one with my GPS tied behind my back.

[+Planet]

Post a note to the cache page with a link to this thread, but delete it down the road, when you know he's had a chance to read it. Really, though, he sounds rather hypocritical, "be vague, but be specific"?!?!?!

 

"I MIGHT HAVE walked by the tree with the knothole, and MAYBE past the rock that looks like a bear, and then PERHAPS I found the cache in the dead stump that is SORT OF near the three big boulders, and it COULD have been an ammo can and there were SUGGESTIONS of goodies inside and it APPEARED to be dry and in good shape, but you can never tell! I wouldn't want to give too much away, and that PERCHANCE is POSSIBLY a spoiler picture, or I COULD be mistaken"

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Cache location... Flagstaff

 

Owner profile location of "Four Corners" area

 

Total Est. Time: 5 hours, 17 minutes Total Est. Distance: 226.63 miles

 

Sounds familiar.

 

Funny how they also ask not to be specific, but with the coordinates, and the detais in all the "appropriate" logs.. I could find this one with my GPS tied behind my back.

I've been through this area many times. As you drive along I-40, you almost drive over the cache (It's just south of the freeway). However, you can't stop your car on the freeway and hike down to the river to get the cache. You have to get off the freeway a mile or so before or after the cache location and navigate the maze of streets to find a close enough spot...on the correct side of the river. I almost went for this cache on my last visit, but I was running short on time after DNF'ing another cache.

[+DarkSide]

Obviously I've been going about this all wrong. I thought finding and placing caches was just supposed to be a fun and relatively harmless way to pass the time. Now I see that, instead, it's a means to exercise power and control over you rabble. I have had an epiphany!!! THINK ON THAT, AND BE DISMAYED!!!

[+Team Lightfoot]

I haven't done this cache yet but it's on my todo list.

 

It's on the Flagstaff urban trail system and would entail a pretty good walk to get to it without trespassing or risking your life parking on I-40 and bushwacking to it.

 

These caches that force you to get out of your car for awhile and smell the roses are my favorite kind, and the placement of this one is clever since it looks so close and yet is so far away.

 

I'm guessing they want part of the challenge to be figuring out where the trailheads are that will get you to this cache.

 

I think the cache owner is being a little nitpicky in this case, but it won't stop me from hunting is in the future.

[Rubbertoe]

The cache owner has since contacted me threatening to delete my log because my log entry is too vague and he does not believe that I found the cache.  I have e-mailed him asking him to check the log book, but he refuses unless I give him a detailed description of the cache!

I don't know if he really "threatened" to delete your log or if you just misunderstood his mood in what he wrote to you, but how hard is it for you to just e-mail him with a couple lines of more descriptive text about your find?

 

I know that I wouldn't want to have to go out and check the log book for every cache that I've hidden, just because someone wouldn't give me a little more info in e-mail. I mean, what is easier - giving the guy a bit more info, or making him walk his butt back out to a cache to read a logbook?

 

fwiw - I didn't read you log entry, or his cache description, or anything else... just jumping in the middle of a thread here that looked interesting.