Commemorating Geocaching, 5-year Birthday

[+thestosh]

Commemorating Geocaching, 5-year birthday

 

I would like to propose a project that could possibly be made available on the 5-year birth date of geocaching, May 3, 2005. This wouldn’t be so much a publicity stunt as much as it would be a way for geocachers to look back at their roots. A lot of the fun of geocaching is finding the unusual or rare. Many of us drool over the chance to find a Project APE cache, Moun10Bike geocoin, webcam cache, or whatever happens to be rare in your area. Some geocachers even try to find the oldest caches in an area when they go out of town.

 

I was thinking that it would be really neat to be able to denote the first cache in each state (and maybe country) with its own cache type icon. The icon could be as simple as a large number one, or more elaborate. There would only be 50 caches in this category and no way to add more (unless it includes countries). Some of the caches may already be archived. This would be incentive to unarchive, adopt, and place a new container at the location, (or as close as possible) thereby preserving the original waypoint.

 

For people that like to combine traveling and geocaching, this would be a real treat. Many geocachers would probably make trips just to log these caches.

 

What are your opinions on this idea? Please stay on topic and keep your responses positive!

 

[+Team Ferret]

We like the idea. It would be nice to see what were the first geocaches in any given state. Plus, it's fun to try and get a new icon on one's User Stats.

 

Mark & Terre

[Keystone]

It is pretty easy to find out what is the oldest *active* cache in any state. Run a search of all caches in the state, either from the hide and seek a cache page or from a pocket query, and then jump to the end of the list.

 

The problem with this is that the search will not return archived caches. But admins and volunteer reviewers do see the archived caches in the search results. For example, I can confirm that in Team Ferret's home state of New York, the cache with the earliest "hidden" date is GC 39 - The Spot. Hidden on May 26, 2000, this cache is still active. (There is one archived cache with a hide date of 1966 but one would go by "real" hide dates.)

[+southdeltan]

I like the idea.

 

However, one drawback is that the first cache in many states is no longer active.

 

What then?

 

Reactivate it? Move the "first cache" flag to the oldest active cache? (That could create problems).

 

Maybe a flag for caches hidden in 2000?

 

Neat idea but it could have problems, probably more than the ones I mentioned.

 

southdeltan

[+RuffRidr]

Maybe a flag for caches hidden in 2000?

I like that idea best.

 

--RuffRidr

[+DavidMac]

Some of the caches may already be archived. This would be incentive to unarchive, adopt, and place a new container at the location, (or as close as possible) thereby preserving the original waypoint.

I think it would be a neat idea. I know that, in many places, some of the pioneer cache hiders are no longer active. Several of the original 100 caches have been adopted by more active cachers in order to keep them going. I don't see why there would be a problem unarchiving and replacing an old cache, unless the original hider objects.

[+TotemLake]

Instead of naming it the 1st cache in the state/province/country, why not name the icon Oldest Active Cache? Then you get past the problem of reactivating caches and then trying to maintain said cache when circumstances just might dictate it shouldn't be there anymore.

[+thestosh]

Instead of naming it the 1st cache in the state/province/country, why not name the icon Oldest Active Cache? Then you get past the problem of reactivating caches and then trying to maintain said cache when circumstances just might dictate it shouldn't be there anymore.

The oldest active cache changes as caches are archived. Someone might go after the cache, get the icon on their stats page and then loose it later when a different cache becomes the oldest.

 

The point is to identify and memorialize the original first cache in each state. It also creates a visible incentive for cachers to find them by having the icon on the stats page.

 

We could still call the icon "Oldest Cache" and it would work in other countries as well, but we would want it to truely be the oldest, not just the oldest active cache.

Edited May 11, 2004 by thestosh

[+Mopar]

It's just a guess, but I'm thinking that the very first cache in many states is probably archived by now. So, you are proposing a major change to the database (introducing a new cache type) that will force things like the Pocket Query generator, cache pages, search engines, etc to be rewritten to accept a new cache type. It would also mean just about every 3rd party application like Watcher, GSAK, and GPSbabel, as well as all the PDA applications would break until the authors released new versions. Seems like an AWFUL lot of work for maybe a few dozen active, findable caches.

[+TotemLake]

The point is to identify and memorialize the original first cache in each state. It also creates a visible incentive for cachers to find them by having the icon on the stats page.

 

I understand the point you're making, but the above quote says it all really if you don't mind me pulling this out of context just a little bit...

 

So when you lose that icon, there isn't an incentive to go out and seek the oldest active to regain that icon?

 

However, as long as this idea is being bandied... why not make a cumulative stat for it? And let's not go "It's not about the numbers" because it clearly is when it comes to this kind of subject.

 

It would be nice to think so, but my point is it isn't always practical to reactivate the 1st cache ever hidden so then what? That state/province/country doesn't get to have it? Clearly that wouldn't be the intent, but it would happen.

 

Now if you want to memorialize what the first cache was in these given areas... perhaps a list of them could be made and provided as a link in the Hide and Seek area. The list would be fairly finite given the limitations of Terra Firma and associated politics.

[+thestosh]

So, you are proposing a major change to the database (introducing a new cache type) that will force things like the Pocket Query generator, cache pages, search engines, etc to be rewritten to accept a new cache type. It would also mean just about every 3rd party application like Watcher, GSAK, and GPSbabel, as well as all the PDA applications would break until the authors released new versions. Seems like an AWFUL lot of work for maybe a few dozen active, findable caches.

Hence the "May 3, 2005" implementation date.

Most of these apps release regular updates. They could implement it ahead of time before the site start showing them with the different icons.

 

Don't be afraid of change or cool ideas just because it takes work. Just set reasonable goals and deadlines to accomplish them.

[+Mopar]

Don't be afraid of change or cool ideas just because it takes work. Just set reasonable goals and deadlines to accomplish them.

 

  Seems like an AWFUL lot of work for maybe a few dozen active, findable caches.

Not saying it's not a cool idea, just there are tons of features I think that amount of time and effort should be exerted on, rather then something that may only effect a handful of caches by that point in time. Archived caches are not searchable, so there is little point applying that cache type to archived caches. It would also have to be done manually, since originally the caches were entered by hand, the GC/ID numbers of early caches do not always relate to placed date. I would much rather see all that effort going into projects that enhance the usefulness of the site for everyone, rather then tag a few old caches.

Edited May 11, 2004 by Mopar

[+welch]

I was thinking that it would be really neat to be able to denote the first cache in each state (and maybe country) with its own cache type icon. The icon could be as simple as a large number one, or more elaborate. There would only be 50 caches in this category and no way to add more (unless it includes countries). Some of the caches may already be archived. This would be incentive to unarchive, adopt, and place a new container at the location, (or as close as possible) thereby preserving the original waypoint.

 

What are your opinions on this idea? Please stay on topic and keep your responses positive!

Interesting Idea, and as has been said I would guess most of the oldest in state caches have been archived.

 

But I wonder if getting them unarchived, adopted and replaced is counter to 'preserving the original waypoint'. I mean if its archived the actual cache likely went MIA or was retrieved and discarded... so you can't preserve that. And what if whoever the orginal page is turned over to (the person adopting) changes it?

Perhaps just have those interested place a New cache there, and link to the orginal page?

[+Team Thompson]

Instead of naming it the 1st cache in the state/province/country, why not name the icon Oldest Active Cache? Then you get past the problem of reactivating caches and then trying to maintain said cache when circumstances just might dictate it shouldn't be there anymore.

I like TotemLake's idea best. Regarding the issue that if you got the oldest cache in the state, and then that cache gets archvied - I would say that you could still hold on to that "oldest find in state" stat since you found it while it was the oldest. In this case, you could go after the "new" oldest cache and get another "oldest in state" find. Just my 2 cents.

[+webscouter.]

I like this idea, a country's first cache or a states first cache. If the cache is not still active you just loose out. Not a huge problem and I am sure that it wouldn't take a volunteer very long to compile the list.

 

I'll start

 

Missouri's first cache

Missouri's First - Watkins Mill

Still active

 

Most likely Kansas first (and I think the oldest active cache in US)

Mingo

 

Scotland's First

Scotland's First

 

Liechtenstein's first

Liechtensteins First

 

Lebanon's First

Lebanon's First

 

Italy's First Italy's First

 

Norway's First

Norges forste, i Bergen

 

Feel free to correct any of these caches.

[+thestosh]

Here is a link to the first 100 geocaches.

http://members.cox.net/pkpublic/

[+welch]

I like this idea, a country's first cache or a states first cache. If the cache is not still active you just loose out. Not a huge problem and I am sure that it wouldn't take a volunteer very long to compile the list.

This old thread, had a link to the 100 oldest caches.

 

edit: ok, thestosh types faster than I do

Edited May 12, 2004 by welch

[+iontarget]

I like this idea, a country's first cache or a states first cache. If the cache is not still active you just loose out. Not a huge problem and I am sure that it wouldn't take a volunteer very long to compile the list.

 

I tend to agree with this adjustment to the original idea.

[+Squishtish26]

I think that the idea of preserving the state's/ country's first cache is a great idea. It is preserving part of geocaching history. Someday we are going to look back any wonder why didn't we preserve caches when we could. It will be harder in the future to try and preserve the cache than it is right now! So let go for it! I agree if it can't be done, then some modifing should be done to orginial idea.

[+thestosh]

bump!

 

Maybe when people see how the jeep travel bugs will add an icon to their profile, they will realize how easy it was to add another icon and see how hard people work to get that icon on their stats page?

[+Mopar]

bump!

 

Maybe when people see how the jeep travel bugs will add an icon to their profile, they will realize how easy it was to add another icon and see how hard people work to get that icon on their stats page?

Sorry, but you're comparing apples to (yellow) oranges.

Changing/adding a new TB icon has nowhere NEAR the same impact as adding a new cache type.

The most obvious thing is you are adding something new, that was never there before, not changing something that already exists.

But that isn't even an issue.

Adding a new TB icon shouldn't require any changes to to the cache page search engine, the Pocket Queries, or any of the many 3rd party GPX applications that work with the PQs.

Adding a new TB icon is not much more then that, adding a graphic. Adding a new cache type requires some major reprogramming of the website, it's functions, and many other programs.

Besides, you are talking about a simple icon for 5000 Jeep TBs, vs a major website redesign for MAYBE 25 caches.

[+webscouter.]

I can't belive that this is a major redesign of the site. It is no problem for any of the admins to change a cache type. So you just add a cache type, no more work than adding a new TB type. Then ask the admins to change the cache types of the 25 caches. Hell I will do the research and changing of cache types if you give me the right permissions.

[+Mopar]

I can't belive that this is a major redesign of the site. It is no problem for any of the admins to change a cache type. So you just add a cache type, no more work than adding a new TB type. Then ask the admins to change the cache types of the 25 caches. Hell I will do the research and changing of cache types if you give me the right permissions.

The CHANGING part is easy. The topic is about changing it to a cache type that DOES NOT EXIST YET. ADDING a new cache type is not trivial. Think of every part of this website that references cache types. All the various searches would need to be redone. The new cache type would have to be programmed into the pocket query generator. Then, once that was done, all the programs like Watcher, GPSbabel, GSAK, GPXspinner, EasyGPS, ExpertGPS, GPSsonar, GPXview, and all the other 3rd party applications we use would need to be updated to add that new cache type.

 

TB's aren't part of the cache search engine, they arent part of the PQs, and they aren't part of any of the dozen or more 3rd party apps.

It's not the same.

Edited May 24, 2004 by Mopar

[+Destitute]

It still seemd like this would be worth incorporating into the site if enough interest is shown. Look at the Project APE caches. They were added for only what, a year's worth of caching? None that I know of are active,right?

 

Local clubs could "adopt" the first cache or recreate them on site if need be. There would definitely be more "1st Cache"s than there were Project APE caches.

 

Not knocking P.A. and hoping I don't offend anyone. That was just my 10 cents worth (adjusted for inflation).

[+thestosh]

The new cache type would have to be programmed into the pocket query generator. Then, once that was done, all the programs like Watcher, GPSbabel, GSAK, GPXspinner, EasyGPS, ExpertGPS, GPSsonar, GPXview, and all the other 3rd party applications we use would need to be updated to add that new cache type.

Most of these apps are updated pretty frequently already. Any additions to the type of caches could be added to the next release of the programs. From a programmer's standpoint, I write programs and scripts to be very modular and adaptable. I imagine that most of these programs could be adapted to include an additional cache type without spending more than 30 minutes on the code.

 

As far as the pocket query goes, I don't imagine it would take much additional code either. Remember, these cache types are defined as types. All queries are based on these types.

 

I don't think it would be very hard to add another type to a structured source code.

Correct me if I am wrong? I think the biggest thing would be whether there is enough demand to dedicate the time to it…

[+Monkeybrad]

Sounds like a great idea to me. I know that when I travel, I try to hunt for early caches two and three digit gc #'s etc. I would love to get another icon for it.

 

Wouldn't this be the same as Moun10 bikes geocoin icon? Not really a new cache type just a change of icon for less than 50 individual caches?

[+El Diablo]

I like the idea! We would need help from TPTB to tell us which ones were the first in each state. If they are archived then they can be brought back by the original owner or some one new. Maybe the local caching organization. If it's impossible to put a physical cache there...then maybe a virtual.

 

This idea needs a lot of work and planning to make it happen, but I certainly think it's worth while.

 

El Diablo

[magellan315]

Having spent the last 15 years planning corporate events I really like the idea, its a really great way to celebrate the five year anniversary. If we put aside the issue of creating an icon, this is very workable.

 

All we need to do is identify the 1st cache in every state, if it has been archived I'm sure there are local Geocaching groups who would help put out new cache in the orginal location. There was a local effort to find and comemorate the 1st cache, which included finding the can of beans originally in the cache.

 

I don't think anyone expected Geocaching to reach the level it is at or the acceptance by varous local, state, and federal agencies. This woud be a very easy way to celebrate. I'd be more than willing to help.

[+Ed Rad]

I just skimmed after the first few posts but I really like the idea of preserving the sites of the first cache in each state. If the caches are archived , how about a marker of some sort at the site and getting them approved as a virtual? That way cachers can still visit the site and get credit for logging the cache but there wll be very little maintenence needed. I think that may be a good compromise. Maybe the admins and folks at GC.com would o.k these as virtuals as part of a special project.

 

Just an idea...

 

Illinois first cache is still active Beverly (GC28)

[+IceCreamMan]

I LOVE this idea! What a great way to mark an important anniversary. I'm sure we could round up some people in Florida to upgrade/replace the original Florida Cache. I believe it's still there as I saw a thread on the www.nefga.com boards about it a couple month back.

[+webscouter.]

Just a note, do you see how easy it was to add a yellow jeep icon? Couldn't be much harder for a new cache type icon could it?

[+StressMaster]

The point is to identify and memorialize the original first cache in each state. It also creates a visible incentive for cachers to find them by having the icon on the stats page.

 

 

Love the idea...there has to be a way to make it happen an I'm sure that many of the top cache hiders would love to place a replacment cache or reactivate the original and adopt it..

[+billthesoxfan]

I already make it a point to find the year 2000 caches, and make caching mini-trips to find them. An extra icon might be fun, but it's also just fun to make it a personal goal and go for it. I got NH's first yesterday (Mine Falls Follies in Nashua).

[+AB4N]

I like the idea. Tennessee's first cache is LPS001. It is still active, but needs a new caretaker since the owner does not live here anymore. I would love to, but a 6 hour drive across state kinda rules that out

 

The main objection that I have seen so far is new cache type programming involved. But programming for the various softwares is really not an issue so far as Groundspeak is concerned, at least I wouldn't think so. Besides, most of the programmers have a passion for it and probably wouldn't mind the challenge anyway. It would be nice if some of them weighed in on the subject.

 

If there is enough support for the idea TPTB might consider adding it to their long list of things to do. (Throw in a big thanks for all that has/is/will be done!) I think that Stosh's suggestion of planning ahead of time is fair and acceptable.

[+SBUX]

I think it's a great idea, stosh! It would be a GREAT tradition to start . . . just like Geo-Woodstock! I look forward to both!

[+Team DEMP]

It shouldn't be that hard, In fact, it's less programming and more SQL. I assume you want to give the oldest active cache (at the time it is logged) a special icon. YOu can retrieve the oldest active cache for each state via a single select SQL statement. Of course I'm not sure if the non-US folks would feel left out.

 

You can see your states oldest active cache by going to the Hoke and Seek a Cache page, selecting your state and then clicking the >> link at the top to go to the end of the list.

 

As an example, the following is the NJ list:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?state_id=31

and then click the >> at the top right of the page that is displayed. Scroll to the bottom and you'll see the oldest active cache in NJ (which is also according to a recent note the 1st NJ cache):

Placed 25 Nov '00 gerbiL cacHe by cach=e_ninjA (GCC8)

 

Using the same method, the oldest cache in NY is:

The Spot (GC39) placed 5/26/00.

 

In CT it is the Dead Rock cache (GCA76D) placed 11/11/90.

[+JoGPS]

I like any thing to do history, 21 years from we may be looking back at this thread and wondering WOW that was a great idea why didn’t they do it.

 

Its always cool to be first to find on a cache, and to find the first cache that was placed in a state or country would be fantastic to.

 

Right now there are 15 available icons to have it could be thirty, and I read here somewhere that virtuals and locationless with have new icons when they are redone as something different.

 

Of course , have been told that I have been wrong before ……….. JOE

[+bitbrain]

I like the idea. Tennessee's first cache is LPS001. It is still active, but needs a new caretaker since the owner does not live here anymore. I would love to, but a 6 hour drive across state kinda rules that out

 

There are a couple of us who take care of LPS001. I live about 8 minutes away by bike & stop by frequently. We adopted the rest of LPS's caches in the area, but changes to terrain and plundering have left this one as the only one still viable. We may have to move it a hundred feet or so soon because of a new boardwalk construction project.

[+thestosh]

I did a road trip and found 2 "State's First Caches" this last week.

 

LPS001

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC132

 

Missouri's First - Watts Mill

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC37

 

It was pretty neat to be able to find these sites since they have a certain historic value to the geocaching comunity.

 

Maybe soon, we will have a special cache category and icon just for them!

Edited June 28, 2004 by thestosh

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

I really find this idea very intriguing. Just check out this NV first cache.

 

Notice that it is archived...& by whom,,,& who the first (& only) poster was. I think this cache would be a REAL classic to bring back! Because of 'Buxley' & 'iryshe' being the ONLY posters on the page.

 

Also, it was archived before anyone at all found it, might it still be there? The first geo-litter in NV? Just under the downed trees that the beavers fell or under the water that was pooled up by a beaver dam? Or was it exactly where it was placed to begin with & just not found by the first to look?

 

Something to ponder.

 

Shirley~

Edited June 28, 2004 by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders)

[+welch]

hmm... neat page

Anyone know if Mike Teague's orginal website had a logging feature? If so, any chance of seeing what they said?

[+kbraband]

Seems like one aspect to this is being overlooked. When a geocache gets archived, it doesn't necessarily mean the owner no longer wished to maintain it. It may have been located in an inappropriate place such as on private property, a dangerous location, a sensitive natural area, or park land where the manager does not allow geocaching. I know of lots of old geocaches that fit into these categories.

[+wimseyguy]

Here's a slightly different look at this issue. Since we are celebrating the 5 year anniversary of our RASH why not recognize all the caches hidden in the first year?

 

That would still be a finite number of caches, many of which are archived, but generate interest in the same way as the first in each state.

Sites of archived caches could still be visited if possible, without a search for those with a real keen interest in history.

If creating a special icon would cause so many probelms with PQ's, searching, database managemnet, etc. than perhaps using a specific color, or adding another icon to that cache as when a TB or geocoin is present would do the trick.

Instead of it being the problem that Y2K never was, we could label them the Y1C or Y1G caches.

[+thestosh]

I think it would be really cool to add another cache type icon for the first cache in each state. I see they added the new "small" size to the list of options for geocache hides. The many 3rd party programs we use have been modified to include it. I guess they could be modified for a new cache type as well.

 

Anyway, I still think it is a good idea as a way to highlight the first cache ever placed in each state even if they are archived.

Edited October 5, 2004 by thestosh

[RCosgrove]

I like it!

[+Brawny Bear]

I think it would be really cool to add another cache type icon for the first cache in each state. I see they added the new "small" size to the list of options for geocache hides.

I support this idea! I would like to see a historic icon for caches that were hidden in 2000 and hold GCxx numbers.

[+Robespierre]

I'm gonna vote for getting the ACTUAL FIRST CACHE re-planted, when necessary, and volunteer to help in Ohio, if needed.

Reactivate it? Move the "first cache" flag to the oldest active cache? (That could create problems).

I could live with "oldest active cache," but would not prefer it.

 

This is an exciting idea to me, and though I'll never collect any significant number of them, I'd like to see a special commemorative pin sent to any cacher who collects at least (pick a number) half (??). I would contribute to that honor.

 

What do we do with other countries? That is the biggest problem to me. Should we let each country be in charge of their own program? Should we include a certain number of "foreign" smilies in our program?? I haven't got a handle on this idea yet. But I really like it.

 

The Stosh needs to be intervied and written-up by Pyewacket for this idea.

[Keystone]

I'm gonna vote for getting the ACTUAL FIRST CACHE re-planted, when necessary, and volunteer to help in Ohio, if needed.

I hate to dampen all this enthusiasm, but permit me to note that the first cache in Ohio was placed on National Park Service Property. It was confiscated by the rangers at Cuyahoga Valley NRA. Quoting from the archive log, the rangers left "a nicely built wooden signboard with a note stapled to it explaining how bad geocaches are."

 

This example illustrates one of the drawbacks of any plan to revive the earliest geocache in each state.

[+ajayhawkfan]

I think an icon for the first caches in each State is a good idea.

[Rockman1]

The 1st cache per state sounds like a great idea. Good Luck

Rockman1