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Warning...Ammo boxes and trouble with the police.


sppd_reserve_cop
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Why are ammo cans bad?

 

Simple. Ammo boxes are military items. They at one time contained explosive material (Ammunition, grenades, etc). How do we know it still does not? Who do we know it won't go off if we move it or open it?

 

You find alot of things in the parks. Coffee cans, cups, bowls, hubcaps, clothing, etc. Items such as an ammo box, or any other item such as guns, bullets, etc. will raise concerns.

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quote:
Originally posted by sppd_reserve_cop:

Why are ammo cans bad?

 

Simple. Ammo boxes are military items. They at one time contained explosive material (Ammunition, grenades, etc). How do we know it still does not? Who do we know it won't go off if we move it or open it?

 

You find alot of things in the parks. Coffee cans, cups, bowls, hubcaps, clothing, etc. Items such as an ammo box, or any other item such as guns, bullets, etc. will raise concerns.


 

A conversation between an officer and a knowledgeable terrorist…

 

Officer: Excuse me, but what are you doing there?

 

Terrorist: Uh, officer! Hello there. Uh, nothing actually, I’m, er, just placing a Geocache, yes, that’s it, putting out a Geocache!

 

Officer: Hmmm, a Geocache, eh?

 

Terrorist: Yes, yes. It is a fine wholesome family activity. I am placing this cache here for people to find, yes.

 

Officer: Well, I can see you have some kind of stickers on the ammo can there, is there information on there?

 

Terrorist: Oh, yes, yes, there is a tremendous amount of information for you on the stickers, Great profundity of information…

 

Officer: Uh-huh, I see. What’s inside? Open it up and let me see.

 

Terrorist: Uh, yes, of course, open it, yes. Uh, wait just one little moment so I can put this little cotter pin back in this little bitty hole here….

 

Officer: Hmmm, what’s the cotter pin for?

 

Terrorist: Oh, it is nothing, it is so the music does not play when the box is opened, yes, the music…

 

Officer: I see… so can you open it now?

 

Terrorist: Yes, yes, immediately of course… there, you see, it is just full of items wholesome families can trade for.

 

Officer: Oh yeah, what’s that?

 

Terrorist: Oh, that? It is nothing, it is just some white modeling clay for children to play with… yes, harmless.

 

Officer: Hmmm, modeling clay, eh? Well, what is that? Why are there batteries in there?

 

Terrorist: Hmm, yes, batteries…well, we put batteries in our caches so that those whose batteries get low can put them in their GPS in order to better find more of them… yes, harmless as you can see….

 

Officer: Okay, what about the little silver cylinder with the wires coming out the end that’s stuck in the modeling clay?

 

Terrorist: Oh that, it is nothing, it is a Christmas ornament, yes, just an ornament. It must have become entangled in the clay while I was carrying it around with me. Yes, I will have to disentangle it before I place the cache, thank you so much for pointing it out to me…

 

Officer: Okay, well, seems harmless enough. Hey, can you make the music play for me?

 

Terrorist: Uh, actually, it will only play one time, for the first person to find it…. It is a, er, reward for being a first-to-find….

 

Officer: Ah, too bad…oh well. Have fun caching then.

 

"With tongue firmly placed in cheek"

 

icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

texasgeocaching_sm.gif

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

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quote:
How do we know it still does not? Who do we know it won't go off if we move it or open it?

 

And is also true of tupperware containers and tackle boxes, which is why these containers also

resulted in the bomb squad being called out.

 

"You can only protect your liberties in this world, by protecting the other man's freedom. "You can only be free if I am" -Clarence Darrow

 

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on April 14, 2003 at 06:36 PM.]

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Why is it that I read Breaktracks dialogue with an accent when it came to the terrorist part??icon_biggrin.gif

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

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quote:
Originally posted by umc:

Why is it that I read Breaktracks dialogue with an accent when it came to the terrorist part??icon_biggrin.gif

 

http://www.mi-geocaching.org/

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.


 

HEY!! Me too!!!! Heheheehe, a profundity of accent.....

 

texasgeocaching_sm.gif

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

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Hi all. The cache in question was mine.

 

Before (or at nearly the same time as) posting here the SPPD reserve officer sent me a very nice and helpful email. Really - he went out of his way to explain what happened and gave some helpful advice. What most here are (over)reacting to is a limited response that that he clairified in his private email to me, the owner.

 

I want to assure everyone that this is a non-issue and that I was not at all insulted or outraged by the actions of the police. I'm just happy that some cache hunters wandered into the area and were able to explain the whole thing to the police before it went too far.

 

Yes, an official sticker was on the side and "www.geocaching.com" was sharpied on the top. Yes, both were hidden and one side must have been left visible by the last finder or made visible by the elements. Frankly, this was one of my least creative hides and one that I was meaning to replace with a micro.

 

I've decided to re-paint my ammo boxes another color other than the "army" olive/drab green that they come as used. In fact this was placed a couple of months ago and was my last o placed with the olive green.

 

I can understand the clean-up crew's reaction, but I too think that it was an over-reaction on their part. Regrettable but understandable. Given the report the police had to act since it was called in to them.

 

My only regret is that the police officers declined the request to have their picture taken with the disposable camera in the cache!

 

--towlebooth

 

>button.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by towlebooth:

Hi all. The cache in question was mine.

 

Before (or at nearly the same time as) posting here the SPPD reserve officer sent me a very nice and helpful email. Really - he went out of his way to explain what happened and gave some helpful advice. What most here are (over)reacting to is a limited response that that he clairified in his private email to me, the owner.

 

I want to assure everyone that this is a non-issue and that I was not at all insulted or outraged by the actions of the police. I'm just happy that some cache hunters wandered into the area and were able to explain the whole thing to the police before it went too far.

 

Yes, an official sticker was on the side and "www.geocaching.com" was sharpied on the top. Yes, both were hidden and one side must have been left visible by the last finder or made visible by the elements. Frankly, this was one of my least creative hides and one that I was meaning to replace with a micro.

 

I've decided to re-paint my ammo boxes another color other than the "army" olive/drab green that they come as used. In fact this was placed a couple of months ago and was my last o placed with the olive green.

 

I can understand the clean-up crew's reaction, but I too think that it was an over-reaction on their part. Regrettable but understandable. Given the report the police had to act since it was called in to them.

 

My only regret is that the police officers declined the request to have their picture taken with the disposable camera in the cache!

 

--towlebooth

 

http://www.mngca.org


 

Now THAT'S a great response..... good on ya!

 

icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

texasgeocaching_sm.gif

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

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quote:
Originally posted by towlebooth:

My only regret is that the police officers declined the request to have their picture taken with the disposable camera in the cache!

 

--towlebooth


 

LoL, that is pretty funny. Who asked for that?

Thanks for responding to this thread.

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

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quote:
Originally posted by umc:

quote:
Originally posted by towlebooth:

My only regret is that the police officers declined the request to have their picture taken with the disposable camera in the cache!

 

--towlebooth


 

LoL, that is pretty funny. Who asked for that?

Thanks for responding to this thread.

 


 

I wish I could take credit but it was the cachers that wandered into the situation. Not only were they able to "difuse" the whole thing and explain the sport to the police, they got wise and asked them for the snapshot. That would have been COOL! To protect the innocent I won't name the folks here, but sluthy folks could figure out who it was pretty easily.

 

>button.gif

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There are a lot of officers here in Idaho that geocache. I think that's a good thing. Why just the other day I was getting fingerprinted at the local sherrifs office and took advantage of the opportunity to explain geocaching or at least try too. Turns out they had not heard of it inside the office. I didn't get a chance to talk to a deputy though. My fingerprints were part of an application and didn't involve anyone else directly.

 

==============================

Wherever you go there you are.

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Renegade Knight is applying for his CCW and we all know it now. Show off. icon_wink.gif

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

______________________________________________________________________________________

So far so good, somewhat new owner of a second/new Garmin GPS V 20 plus finds so far with little to no problem. We'll see what happens when there are leaves on the trees again.

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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Knight:

There are a lot of officers here in Idaho that geocache. I think that's a good thing. Why just the other day I was getting fingerprinted at the local sherrifs office and took advantage of the opportunity to explain geocaching or at least try too.

==============================

Wherever you go there you are.


 

Oh man, I laughed out loud on that one...lol. Why just the other day....LOL. Excellent.

 

texasgeocaching_sm.gif

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

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I think the "problem" is not the reaction of the clean-up crew, nor the police.

 

If nything, the problem was the wording of the original post. The motive was good. I think it was not well thought out, and should have been approved before posting. Even now, I am not sure what the goal of the original post was.

 

Was it to not use old ammo cans? Was it to hide caches better? Who knows. But, it came across to me as more of an unsubstantiated threat.

 

Hopefully, the original poster will take this to his superior and suggest that the city will join those other reasonable cities and counties that approve of geocaching, but may wish to be notified of the general area and description of caches, and not just go into "banned" mode..

 

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case... icon_biggrin.gif

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I recently purchased a small ammo can from the local army surplus store. Of the three I've bought so far, I felt compelled to paint this one because it had "Blasting caps, 10, non electric" painted on the side. I just wanted to make sure people didn't assume it still contained them.

 

eyes.GIF

"Searching with my good eye closed"

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Nuts. My order from the geocache store arrived and it said they were out of the cache stickers. (Eventually they will credit me for the price of the stickers they didn't deliver.)

 

Jeremy's friends better start printing them again. And maybe in different sizes, so caches can be well marked........with a profundity of information. Or was that a plethora?

 

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case... icon_biggrin.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by DustyJacket:

Nuts. My order from the geocache store arrived and it said they were out of the cache stickers. (Eventually they will credit me for the price of the stickers they didn't deliver.)

 

Jeremy's friends better start printing them again. And maybe in different sizes, so caches can be well marked........with a profundity of information. Or was that a plethora?

 

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case... icon_biggrin.gif


 

Absolutely great idea.....

 

texasgeocaching_sm.gif

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

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<QUOTE>Why are ammo cans bad?

 

Simple. Ammo boxes are military items. They at one time contained explosive material (Ammunition, grenades, etc). How do we know it still does not? Who do we know it won't go off if we move it or open it?

</QUOTE>

 

Typically, ammo boxes that cause their contents to explode when they are moved or opened aren't very useful.

 

It kind of defeats their whole purpose.

 

George

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Geocaching.com sells labels for geocache containers, but I thoink it would be great if they sold pre-perforated stensils for use on ammo-can caches instead of the stick-on labels. Just drop the stensil, and spray, and viola, you have the official logo on your cache.

 

...

 

Oh, what the hell: story time.

 

I found what appeared to be a pipe bomb at my high school. It was sitting upright on the drinking fountain. What do I do? I get out my pencil, and tap it so that it falls over onto its side.

 

From what I've heard, pipe bombs have a knack for being a bit unstable, and if that was live, I could have really risked blowing myself into... well, let's put it this way: there was a web site with warnings about building these and other home-made explosives. One images was a fellow who built a pipe-bomb, and it exploded in his hands. They put most of his remains on a tarp, arranged in order from the head area to the feet, which where in about 12 completely seperate pieces. Ouch.

 

Fortunately, it turned out to be a fuse from the tech school someone had wrapped in electrical tape, as they do with dead fuses to avoid replacing a bad fuse with another bad one. Of course, this was discovered after the school was evacuated and the Erie bomb squad was called. Wow.

 

Just a little story, since we're on the topic of bomb squads and such. icon_razz.gif

 

AOsig.JPG

 

http://thealphaoperator.tripod.com

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quote:
Originally posted by Breaktrack:

 

Sorry, incorrect. I'm aware of a LOT of sites on the web and I still have NO idea what the heck they are about or why they even exist. Once he saw it had the geocaching site listed it reminded him he'd seen something about that on the web and he volunteered to contact the site. Geex, you guys are some PICKY people...LOL.


 

Exactly, if he knew of the site and saw the sticker on the side of the ammo can then he should have been able to put two & two together. How many psycho bombers do you know of that put stickers advertising their web site on their bombs???

 

--------------------------------

Magellan Meridian GPS

Handspring Visor Deluxe

L.O.S.T. - http://www.kjjeep.com

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quote:
Originally posted by L.O.S.T.hoomdorm:

Exactly, if he knew of the site and saw the sticker on the side of the ammo can then he should have been able to put two & two together. How many psycho bombers do you know of that put stickers advertising their web site on their bombs???


Not knowing any phsycho bombers... zero icon_biggrin.gif

 

But, I'm a little confused. Was sppd_reserve_cop one of the actual cops waiting at the cache for the bomb squad to show up? icon_confused.gif

 

waypoint_link.gif22008_1700.gif37_gp_logo88x31.jpg

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So there was a misunderstanding about what was in the cache, but once it was determined that there was no problem why wasn't the cache put back in it's hiding spot or returned to the owner? The officer could have informed the rest of the department so there would be no future problems with the cache.

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This guy is a cop? maybe a wanna-be but he is not a real cop, heck he even comes off sounding like a real moron at best.

What a tough guy this is and post such bull on this site.

It is probably just some 13 year-old kid trying to have some fun with us.

All the cops I know would not think about posting such bull****, this guy isn't smart enough to be a cop, maybe a security guard at Wally-World.

:&gticon_wink.gif

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Yes and no, it appears.

 

I did some checking into the SPPD Reserve Officer program.

Their reserves assist the police department with non-enforcement tasks. They are not state certified, do not hold commissions, have no police powers, etc.

They are more of a Police Axillary than a Police Reserve. Maybe even a Police Cadet program.

 

In other states a Reserve must have attended an academy, be fully state certified, have a commission, and have full police powers. This appears to not be the case in Minnesota.

 

This person may have had very fine motives, or he may have wanted an ego boost. Who knows.

Hopefully, this event will lead to better communication between the city of St. Paul and local geocachers.

 

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case... icon_biggrin.gif

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Alright folks - there is really no need to go after the officer. It was my cache and I explained that he emailed me privatly with a longer and more humble explaination which satisfied me. Believe me, if he knew what these forums are generally like he would not have come on here. Give him some slack. How many of you will stand up and be first responders when the next attack comes?

 

On another subject I know from first-hand experience that the reserve police officer programs in this area are a good ones. Many are retired police officers and others are just trying to make a difference in their spare time. Every one that I've met has been a stand-up person.

 

>button.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by towlebooth:

How many of you will stand up and be first responders when the next attack comes?


 

Quite a few of us, I suspect. There were some active officers criticising the original post.

Although I am no longer on the job, I still assist others until the proper folks can arrive.

 

Unfortuntely, the point of the message was that the box being an old ammo can caused the incident.

 

That view plus the suggestion of getting arrested for geocaching is probably what set a lot of people off. I was pretty unhappy about it.

 

But, I agree. Time to drop it for a while.

 

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case... icon_biggrin.gif

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Consider that with the current American paranoia, the cops may have thought it was a terrorists weapons stash awaiting the next big attack.

 

I am English, and was taught never to leave anything unattended in a public place, nor to approach an un-attended bag/package, due to the IRA attacks.

 

You learn to live with it.

 

--------------------------------------------------------

Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."

--------------------------------------------------------

Victor

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quote:
Originally posted by sppd_reserve_cop:

Why are ammo cans bad?

 

Simple. Ammo boxes are military items. They at one time contained explosive material (Ammunition, grenades, etc). How do we know it still does not? Who do we know it won't go off if we move it or open it?

 

You find alot of things in the parks. Coffee cans, cups, bowls, hubcaps, clothing, etc. Items such as an ammo box, or any other item such as guns, bullets, etc. will raise concerns.


 

You’d sound much more convincing if you spelled correctly...sort of.

 

As a whole, I think the use of ammo containers is a wonderful idea. Finally, somewhere for those containers to go after we spend millions only to use them once…I have a chance to put my tax dollars to my own use.

 

I would say that they obviously have raised an eyebrow in public places and this could be avoided. I would not say ammo boxes shouldn’t be used. They absolutely cannot be beat for a cache container. Show me a container that beats it and I’m there. But you can’t. I would say that placement of ammo containers should be though of prior to placement. Furthermore, you can’t take me jail and charge me for anything if my intentions are not to harm or inflict fear.

 

-Lets play global Thermonuclear war-

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If what passes for security in this country weren't such a monumental farce it would truly be laughable ( uh, I guess that means it IS laughable huh? )

 

I have boarded airplanes with as many as five electronic devices in my pack and the security people didn't look at any of them. Meanwhile they're asking all the pretty ladies to remove their shoes!?!

 

I carry a camera bag into our state capital and the guards barely lift the corners of the pocket flaps. But ask to put a micro cache on the edge of the state capitol grounds? . . . No, that won't do. Somebody might put a bomb in that Altoids tin. Never mind that the place is littered with Fed Ex and UPS drop boxes (not to mention parked cars!)

 

My only comment to the "reserve" cop would be this: St. Paul? Get a clue, bud. Your average terrorist has never HEARD of St. Paul. He sure ain't going to choose it as a target. And if he did what's he going to do — place a bomb in an ammo box hidden in the park? And why would he do that? To blow up the park? Yeah, right, that's going to put terror in the heart of the average American!

 

Yeah, I know, these guys are trying to protect us but they're taking themselves entirely too seriously. I talked to a commercial fisherman the other day who couldn't go get his nets after September 11 because they closed the river access parking lot next to the local lock and dam. Did these guys seriously think the same people who flew airplanes into the the most recognizable office buildings in the world would waste their time attacking some navigational lock on the Mississippi River that no one has ever heard of and the consequences of it being destroyed is that some barge would scrape bottom during low water?

 

Excuse me but I think the sugar from the donuts has gone to their heads . . .

 

[This message was edited by Matt1344 on April 14, 2003 at 09:10 PM.]

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I was wondering if Caching in general would be a problem because of the war. One person said to me that a Cache would be an unlikely way to bomb because large numbers of people would not be killed. I hope we can continue our pastime in the outdoors and forget about the war. If anyone comes up with a more desirable inexpensive container that can withstand the extremes, I hope they post it everywhere. Tupperware does not work in the high desert.

L

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Shoot...Can I just say that if I was not a geocacher and was working with a crew cleaning up a park and I found a metal box hidden under some logs, I would have snatched that sucker up and headed off to lunch.

 

With my active imagination, I would have suspected someone stashed a can of loot and hit it big time!!

 

Of course I would have been let down once I realized my new found treasure was a collection of some kids happy meal toys icon_frown.gif

 

Hope everything is cleared up in Saint Paul icon_smile.gif

 

Kar

 

TEAM SHIBBY!!!!

 

Krs, Kar & Na

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I've got too many to stop placing ammo boxes now! I probably still have over 100 in various sizes!

 

The police were only doing their job and doing it a typical police fashion. I know I wouldn't be touching something like that without knowing what it was. Yeah, so what is was marked, if it was covered they might not have been about to see the markings.

 

Cops, in "security mode," are paid to be paranoid, it's just something you have to get over.

 

But I'm not going to stop using the best container for the hide.

 

CR

 

72057_2000.gif

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quote:
Why are ammo cans bad?

Simple. Ammo boxes are military items. They at one time contained explosive material (Ammunition, grenades, etc). How do we know it still does not? Who do we know it won't go off if we move it or open it?


 

I suppose it should be mentioned that EVEN IF an ammo box was still full of ammo (strictly forbidden in caches, btw) that wouldn't make it dangerous to open. It wouldn't "go off" by opening it.

 

Hmmm. . . . a cop that's afraid of ammo? That's kind of strange . . .

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Looks to me as if some reserve cops need some training. Being formally involved in having to deal with some of this stuff, I can tell you that ammo cans were never even brought up as possible "bombs". Terroists prefer to use items much more familiar with people so it "blends" in.......

 

Now, it also sounds like you may need some training in the charging of crimes.......(hold on please while I wipe the tears of laughter from my eyes........) What possible crime have you in mind?.......littering?.....not if he has permission! Double parking or not putting coins in the parking meter?........please....at night? You crack me up...almost as funny as Mr. Snazz's thread on not using ammo cans......

 

Oh wait......are you a sock puppet?.....are you really Mr. Snazz?.........

 

Earth First!!! We'll cache the other planets later!!

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My opinion is that there has been enough bashing on this thread.

 

What the PD did was understandable.

 

What the original poster wrote is not. I suspect he'll be paying a price elsewhere.

 

One good thing that came out of this was Breaktrack's officer/terrorsist skit. I am thinking of framing it.

 

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case... icon_biggrin.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by sppd_reserve_cop:

Why are ammo cans bad?

 

Simple. Ammo boxes are military items. They at one time contained explosive material (Ammunition, grenades, etc). How do we know it still does not? Who do we know it won't go off if we move it or open it?


 

With respect, I can go down to the local outdoor store and buy all the ammo cans I wish. Folks around here use them as inexpensive storage containers for all manner of items, due to their low price and watertightness.

 

If you found a lonely ammo can in Montana, it's much more likely to hold fishing tackle that explosive materials.

 

Ron/yumitori

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quote:
Originally posted by yumitori:

 

With respect, I can go down to the local outdoor store and buy all the ammo cans I wish. Folks around here use them as inexpensive storage containers for all manner of items, due to their low price and watertightness.

 

If you found a lonely ammo can in Montana, it's much more likely to hold fishing tackle that explosive materials.

 

Ron/yumitori


 

Heh, I use a small one as a toolbox for work. It holds 2 or 3 socket wrenches and a ton of different sockets. I've walked through many downtown highrises without a problem so far. Of course most of the security officers know me... So that may have something to do with it.

 

beatnik

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quote:
Originally posted by Matt1344:

My only comment to the "reserve" cop would be this: St. Paul? Get a clue, bud. Your average terrorist has never HEARD of St. Paul.


 

Yeah, and the average terrorist hasn't heard of Oklahoma City, either.

 

I always figured that a geocache would be mistaken for a drug drop, not an explosive.

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