POLL: Is it acceptable to log removed cache as found ?

1.3k · May 5, 2003

Hi!

One of my caches is disabled at the moment, as i have removed the cache because the building, under which the cache was located, is demolished. I wrote on 18th of April a cache maintenance notification on the cache page and told the reason why it is disabled. On 26th of April a "number 1" geocacher of Finland (when measured by the number of found caches), tried to find the cache, could not find it BUT logged it as found!

So, what do you think, is this kind of a "found" ok ? I dont think it is, as the cache container was and still is at my home.

I have discussed about this subject with that user, and he says it's ok because he had one week old printouts with him so he was not aware of the disabling. He also said that he found the place where the cache had been. And so he refuses to change his logging to "not found". I would not like to delete that logging but rather see it as "Not found" or a note.

Here's the cache URL:

The Treasure of the King of Rapola

[This message was edited by Captain_Morgan&Family on May 05, 2003 at 01:40 AM.]

1.7k · May 5, 2003

He didn't find it.

Finding the location does not guarantee he would have found the cache. If the cache isn't there to begin with, then how can any cacher know if he would have found the cache? Next thing you know, this cacher will be loggin "found it" when all he does is pinpoint it on a map.

*************

That moss-covered bucket I hailed as a treasure,

For often at noon, when I returned from the field,

I found it the source of an exquisite pleasure.

Samuel Woodworth The Old Oaken Bucket

38.2k · May 5, 2003

Since the object of this sport is to find a cache and not the place where it was, or might have been, it's a "not found".

I've seen this happen a lot more frequently than one would expect. I don't understand why people are so obsessed with numbers that they have to cheat. When it's time to go to that "big geocache in the sky", St. Peter ain't going to ask you how many finds you had, but he may ask you if you were honest.

You have to wonder if he became the #1 geocacher in Finland by pumping up his numbers with other fake finds.

I'd delete the find if he refuses to change it to a "not found".

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

May 5, 2003

Not a find.

He didn't find the cache, and at the time, he didn't know you had removed it - would he have considered it a find if it later transpired it had been plundered?

The cache wasn't there, and he didn't find it.

I'd agree with BrianSnat - if he doesn't change it, delete it, but make sure you tell him why, and be prepared for a little backlash.

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

38.2k · May 5, 2003

For those of you who voted that it's OK to log this as a find, what is your reasoning? I'm very curious. Maybe I have the concept of geocaching all wrong.

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on May 05, 2003 at 06:14 AM.]

May 5, 2003

Your head would have to be wired up pretty poorly to consider that a find.

This game gets a lot easier once you lose your integrity I guess, can't be more fun though.

I would delete it, even though it points out his lack of integrity by leaving it there.

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

1.6k · May 5, 2003

If it's a physical cache and he didn't put his fingerprints on it, then it's not a find.

Your job as a cache a maintainer is to police the logs of your cache. If you know that he did not find the cache, but posted a find anyway, it's your job to delete the find and optionally post a note telling why the log has disapeared. Leaving the find as is cheapens the other finder's experiences.

Delete the log.

CR

1.3k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:Your job as a cache a maintainer is to police the logs of your cache. If you know that he did not find the cache, but posted a find anyway, it's your job to delete the find ... - clip -

Yes, i know and i agree - but i still want to wait and save that action as a last possible thing. With this poll i want to show the user that he's doing wrong, not me.

1.6k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Captain_Morgan&Family:
Yes, i know and i agree - but i still want to wait and save that action as a last possible thing. With this poll i want to show the user that he's doing wrong, not me.

That's understandable. Hopefully, when he sees this, he'll do the right thing on his own.

CR

May 5, 2003

This behaviour is bad for geocaching: How can anyone log a find on a cache which isn't there? It seems to be hard - maybe even impossible - to write in the logbook in that situation. Writing in the logbook I normally consider to be a good and valid proof of one actually finding a certain cache.

I believe that you should set a time limit in which the log can be altered to a Not Found. If the time limit is passed and no correction has been made: Cut!

Virtual Regards from ArktiS

May 5, 2003

I think (Police?) Captain Morgan failed to mention a few important things. I traveled 100 miles (one way) only to search for Captain Morgan's caches. It was a multicache, and at the fifth and last point I noticed that the coordinates pointed to a demolished building. Therefore, I had spent a remarkable amount of time with this cache, and the only thing that I could not do was to write my name in the logbook. Further, I did not cheat in any way. In my log entry, I explained the case exactly how it is. Finally, when it comes to the title Number 1 geocacher in Finland, I must notify that Captain Morgan has more points than me.

1.7k · May 5, 2003

I'm sorry you drove so far for the cache, but still, no cache=did not find or post a note.

We couldn't find a few caches, and later they were archived. We spent quite a bit of time looking for them and it would have been nice to log them but still we never found the cache. It's part of the game.

As cache owner Captain Morgan has a right to maintain his cache by asking you to change your found to a did not find or outright deleting the log entry all together.

****************

That moss-covered bucket I hailed as a treasure,

For often at noon, when I returned from the field,

I found it the source of an exquisite pleasure.

Samuel Woodworth The Old Oaken Bucket

May 5, 2003

Mesu - I did look at the cache page before logging my vote, but I didn't take into consideration the distance you travelled.

That said, I still don't think it's relevant. I've personally travelled long distances to do a cache. Recently I drove a 150 mile round trip to do a selection of caches, one of which I failed to find, as it had been plundered. Was that a find? of course not, as I didn't find the cache.

A few years ago, I went to Boston to see "Sheer Madness" - as it happened, the only night I was able to go, they had sold out. Can I now claim I have seen Sheer Madness, simply because of the effort I went to to get there? Of course I can't.

The same is true of the cache. You put a lot of work in, but you didn't find it. It's sad, but you'll have another opportunity to get it, I'm sure.

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

38.2k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Therefore, I had spent a remarkable amount of time with this cache, and the only thing that I could not do was to write my name in the logbook.

Then it's not a find. Pretty simple.

You don't get to log a find because you drove a long way and put a lot of effort into finding it. You get to log a find when you find the cache. On the log a cache page there are 4 options. "Found It" means you found it. "Couldn't Find It" means you couldn't find it. That seems to be a pretty simple concept, at least to most of us.

There are also "Post a note" and "Cache Should Be Archived". Maybe they should add a button for "Drove a long way and put a lot of time into it"

Heck, if putting a lot of time into finding the cache was the criterion for posting a "Found It", I'd have another 40 or 50 finds!

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

6.4k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mesu:
I think (Police?) Captain Morgan failed to mention a few important things. I traveled 100 miles (one way) only to search for Captain Morgan's caches. It was a multicache, and at the fifth and last point I noticed that the coordinates pointed to a demolished building. Therefore, I had spent a remarkable amount of time with this cache, and the only thing that I could not do was to write my name in the logbook. Further, I did not cheat in any way. In my log entry, I explained the case exactly how it is. Finally, when it comes to the title Number 1 geocacher in Finland, I must notify that Captain Morgan has more points than me.

Sorry, those arent important parts. Is 100 miles the cutoff? After 1 travel 100 miles I get to log a cache as a find, even if I didn't find it? Or only hard caches? I just spent an entire day driving around searching for clues in a puzzle cache based on the game Monopoly. I wanted to be the first peprson to find it. I didn't find it. The cache hider accidently lwft out a vital part of the puzzle. So, according to you I should should I get to log a find on that one? I Travelled 40 miles each way to the start pont, then another 50 miles tracking down the clues. Don't I deserve a find anyway?

The reason you didn't find it doesn't matter.

The distance you travelled doesn't matter.

How hard you tried doesn't matter.

If you had checked the cache page before you left, instead of relying on week old information, you would have known the cache wasn't there. If I was able to log a find every time I made a dumb mistake, I would be the #1 cacher in the world.

You don't find the cache, you don't sign the log book, you don't get the smiley.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

1.3k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mesu:
I think (Police?) Captain Morgan failed to mention a few important things. I traveled 100 miles (one way) only to search for Captain Morgan's caches.

What difference does it make? I know geocachers that have travelled from Finland to Thailand and they have been in very similar situation there, but they have not logged missing caches as found.

quote:
It was a multicache, and at the fifth and last point I noticed that the coordinates pointed to a demolished building. Therefore, I had spent a remarkable amount of time with this cache, and the only thing that I could not do was to write my name in the logbook.

Only thing you could not do was that you could not find the cache !!! I have spent remarkable time with some caches and not found them, so does it justify me to log them as found ????

quote:
Further, I did not cheat in any way. In my log entry, I explained the case exactly how it is.

So explaining justifys logging as found ???

quote:
Finally, when it comes to the title Number 1 geocacher in Finland, I must notify that Captain Morgan has more points than me.

See this: Finnish ranking list by Dan

[This message was edited by Captain_Morgan&Family on May 05, 2003 at 10:35 AM.]

May 5, 2003

While I know other people use other criteria for a "found it", mine is simple. For a physical cache, I have to get my hands on the cache and open it. So far I have always been able to sign the log book as well. Of course I carry a spare log book in case the cache is missing one or has a full one. If I can't do that it is a "not found". It doesn't matter:

1. If it was my fault, for example it was there and I just didn't find it.

2. If it was the hiders fault for example if the coordinates were so far off that I didn't find it.

3. If it was someone else fault for example a previous hunter moving it.

I have had all three happen to me. Most of the the time I have always been able to later "fix" condition number 1 by finding the cache. It doesn’t matter how far I went to look for the cache. On every cache hunt I go on I know there is a chance I will not find it. That is the nature of the game. Because of this, the only caches I travel a long distance for are the ones that I think I will enjoy even if I don't find the cache.

Now in the current world of geocaching.com online logs. It is a found if both the hider and hunter agree that is a found. If the hider disagrees they can delete the found log, if the hunter doesn't think it is a found they can log it as a note and not found. I have actually had a hider ask me to change my note on their cache to a found.

May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
Maybe they should add a button for "Drove a long way and put a lot of time into it"

I suggest that a -button is added for "Found all but the last in this multi-cache". Just kidding - he-he-he!

Virtual Regards from ArktiS

[This message was edited by ArktiS on May 05, 2003 at 08:30 AM.]

2.9k · May 5, 2003

There is a selection for FOUND, Not FOUND, NOTE, and etc, but not a selection for "KINDA Found". A found means that a logbook was signed or an e-Mail confirmation of the FIND was done with the cache owner.

--------------------------------------------------

My Old posts as Geoffrey

My Current Post as GOT GPS?

My Home Page about what is GPS

9.2k · May 5, 2003

I spent several hours on a level-four difficulty multicache that was appropriately titled "Brainbuster." When I got to the last of three different locations I needed to drive to, I could not find the clue that would lead me to the cache box. Of course, I posted a "not found" log. The owner then checked the cache, and discovered that the item referred to in the clue had been destroyed in a spring storm. I had no thoughts of going back and changing my "not-found" to a "found." It wasn't his fault that a tree fell down, and it's not Captain Morgan's fault that a building got demolished. At least he disabled the cache promptly upon learning of the problem. You act at your own risk by printing out cache sheets a week in advance.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps. - Emo Phillips

May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by ArktiS:
I suggest that a button is added for "Found all but the last in this multi-cache".

That button exists already - it's spelled NOTE.

If you didn't find it 'cause you had to leave the hunt prematurely - I'd leave a note. If you didn't find it 'cause the building's been demolished, I'd post a notfound.

This helps alert the cacheowner and other seekers that something might be amiss....

There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home. - Ken Olsen, President, Digital Equipment, 1977

May 5, 2003

Sorry but this is clearly a NO Find, and if the cacher chooses not to change I say the owner should delete it altogether. If there was a cache container there, and it was gone when a hunter arrived, he found a spot but not a cache. This is not called Geospotting...

My mind not only wanders...

Sometimes it leaves completely...

**Namaste**

2.3k · May 5, 2003

"NOT FOUND" gets my vote. It was a physical, not a virtual cache. Yes, it sucks that you put the effort into it and didn't get to the cache, but there is a reason why a logbook is placed in physical caches. It is to verify the cacher "found" the cache. No signature in the logbook=no find. Sorry, Charlie.

1.2k · May 5, 2003

Wow, if this "find" stands, that means I can log each and every cache hidden in any park here in Texas, as long as I find the park!!!!

WHOO - HOO!

My cache totals are about to go through the ROOF!!!!

Thanks Mesu, I would NEVER have thought of this one.....LOL.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

May 5, 2003

WOW! This is a hot issue!

There is nothing that I can say here that hasn't already been said and I agree with everyone that this is a NOT FOUND.

After all, isn't the whole object of this game to find the cache box, not just to get close to it?

May 5, 2003

I kind of see it like this:

When you have to go pee, you go to the toilet. You don't go to the bathroom door and pee on the floor do you?

Same go's with a cache, sure you can get real close to where the cache is, but if its not there, did you find it?

Nope.

Don't pee on the floor, pee in the toilet.

Where you all at?

May 5, 2003

well, i guess now isnt the time to buck the trend. point is he didnt find the cache, i dont think it is a not found either. to me a find is when you find the cahce or its remnant, a not found is when you look and cant find it and decide to give up for the time being, and a note covers just about everything else. this situation requires a note, he searched for the cache but didnt find it due to circumstances beyond his control, so you cant really call it a not found either.

when you think about it whos he trying to kid? his gps and your gps have expected errors of up to 50 meters, therefore had this cache been in the wilderness he could have said he found 'the' tree where the cache is? delete his log!

'Get to the point---speak English!!!!'

May 5, 2003

I'll try again.

Mike

May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
For those of you who voted that it's OK to log this as a find, what is your reasoning? I'm very curious. Maybe I have the concept of geocaching all wrong.

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on May 05, 2003 at 06:14 AM.]

And another thing. When did they start doing polls in percentages? Leaves a lot to the imagination.

Mike

6.4k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by mikemtn:

And another thing. When did they start doing polls in percentages? Leaves a lot to the imagination.

Mike

Well, thats with the "new" forums. Those of us with non-IE browsers that still see the old forums, can still see the number of votes too. As of right now, it's 37-4.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

May 5, 2003

quote:
When you have to go pee, you go to the toilet. You don't go to the bathroom door and pee on the floor do you?

Are you the one who's been doing that, '68?? Stay away fromy my cache, 68!

Published experts (1, 2) say with certainty that critical situations will arise which are totally unexpected.

3.1k · May 5, 2003

quote:
For those of you who voted that it's OK to log this as a find, what is your reasoning? I'm very curious. Maybe I have the concept of geocaching all wrong.

First of all I personally would not log this has a find myself.

But if someone logged it on one of my caches I would not delete it, especially if he had week old printouts and insisted he be able to log it.

Reasoning is simple. This isn't a contest. No compeition here so there isn't cheating. As least that is the way I see it.

I once got to a cache and was first to sign the logbook. Another cacher logged it online as a find. I didn't not complain about that to the cache owner, I just let it go. The reward was in finding it. Recently I went to visit a difficult to reach cache of my own. I saw that the second finder never signed the logbook. He lied about it. I won't delete his find either.

This activity is a lot like mountain climbing. Some feel if they get 50 feet from the top they made it. Others would complain they've cheated. There isn't any winners there either, it's about your personal enjoyment and your personal sense of accomplishment.

May 5, 2003

BLACK / WHITE

WRONG / RIGHT

STOP / GO

FOUND / NOT FOUND

Pick one and one only. O.K? This world loves to blur lines that one could nor should not.

It reminds me of a statement by some obscure group called "Poets for Peace" or something like that. The writer went on a tangent about how they understand that there are various versions on "the truth".

Ummmmmm.....no there aren't.

Minnesota Geocaching Association

1.6k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by '68 Dodger:
When you have to go pee, you go to the toilet. You don't go to the bathroom door and pee on the floor do you?

ROFLMAO <-- checks to make sure no one has pee'd there first!

CR

1.8k · May 5, 2003

No find !!!

I seem to rememeber that "close" only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes.

"heck, that scares me and I'm fearless"

May 5, 2003

Going waaaay off topic...

quote:
Originally posted by Irvingdog:
The writer went on a tangent about how they understand that there are various versions on "the truth".

Ummmmmm.....no there aren't.

Hmm, debatable.

I'd suggest that truth kinda depends on perception.

For example, we perceive Hitler to have been an evil man, and we may hold that as a truth. On the other hand, I'm sure Hitler saw things very differently.

Or, to put it another way, is it true that there is an empty glass sat next to my computer?

At the time of my writing, the statement is true. By the time you read this, it may, or may not be.

My version of the truth is that there is a glass there. Your version (though you are unlikely to know the truth) is that there may not be.

So, there's truth in the present tense, or in the past (or indeed in the future), or from individual perspectives, or all at the same time.

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

5k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:
As of right now, it's 37-4.

I wish we could all see the totals.

Anyway, wtf? Who are the four? How come there are no posts here saying "I'd call that a find" but yet four people have voted that way?

My vote? Easy. No Find. Delete it.

On one of my caches, I had someone log a find accompanied by a log that said something to the effect of "we didn't actually find the cache, but..." I asked them to change it and they did, but if they hadn't, I would have deleted it.

Jamie

9.2k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Kouros:
Or, to put it another way, is it true that there is an empty glass sat next to my computer?

At the time of my writing, the statement is true. By the time you read this, it may, or may not be.

My version of the truth is that there is a glass there. Your version (though you are unlikely to know the truth) is that there may not be.

There USED to be an empty glass, but 68 Dodger peed in it. So now the question becomes, is the glass half full or half empty?

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps. - Emo Phillips

38.2k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Recently I went to visit a difficult to reach cache of my own. I saw that the second finder never signed the logbook. He lied about it. I won't delete his find either...There isn't any winners there either, it's about your personal enjoyment and your personal sense of accomplishment.

True there are no winners, but logging false finds could cause others to waste their time looking for a cache that isn't there. There are many people who won't look for a cache unless it has a recent find, simply because they don't want to waste their time looking for something that might be long gone. It could also make the owner think their cache is there and in good shape, when it isn't.

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -Abraham Lincoln

9.4k · May 5, 2003

It doesn't really matter how far you drove to find a cache, or how hard it was to do. I drove 420 miles to Denver, CO and couldn't find a cache hidden in a rock field buried under 6 inches of snow. I logged it as a NOT FOUND because I couldn't actually find the container.

In your case, you already have done all of the intermediate stages. When this cache is replaced, you can do a quick find and sign the log (unless CaptMorgan changes some of the 'clues' slightly)

May 5, 2003

quote:
When you have to go pee, you go to the toilet. You don't go to the bathroom door and pee on the floor do you?

Made me remember when our boys were first out of diapers.

Clearly when you're that age - distance is valued far more than accuracy.

What do I know - I've found caches, forgotten to sign the log, then gone back again later to make it official. I didn't want to have anyone question the log in the future!

[This message was edited by HartClimbs on May 05, 2003 at 10:07 AM.]

8.9k · May 5, 2003

I wouldn't log it as a find.

In the beginning, I simply wouldn't have posted even trying. I humbly admit that I did that on more than one occassion.

Later on in my caching, I probably would have posted it as a note (especially since I had found the intermediate steps).

Now, after caching for two years, I'm almost as proud of my not-founds as I am of my finds. I keep running tabs on my own website not only of the caches found, but of the attempts I've done - found AND not found. With some caches I've gone out multiple times and not found it. Couple all that togehter, and I think my find ratio is something like 71% of my hunts have yielded finds.

Markwell

Chicago Geocaching

May 5, 2003

I had done less than 30 caches when I learned to check the listings just before leaving home. I drove 40 miles (round trip), and searched for almost an hour, only to find out later that the cache had been archived a few days before. I didn't find it, I didn't log it.

A couple months ago I drove 130 miles (round trip) for a 4-part multi. I couldn't find the last part, so I didn't log it.

I few weeks ago I couldn't find a cache, although I was sure I was in the right place. I e-mailed the owner with an exact description, he checked and told me that I was in the right spot but the cache was missing. I didn't log it as a find, I did put a note on the log that I thought it was missing and had contacted the owner.

I think this covers all of the excuses for logging the cache, even though it wasn't found, and what I would do in that situation.

RichardMoore

www.geocities.com/richardsrunaway

6.5k · May 5, 2003

Not a find!

To me this seems simple to claim a cache you must verify you were there to the cache owners content.And in this cache the owner has already said, you didn't meet MY requirements

In physicals this is usally signing the log book. The only allowance (for log book caches) I make is when the cache is found but the verification is damaged/unsable (like a soggy mess of a logbook... possiably 68's been there? ). Finding the tree or building the cache was hidden at does not count.(and time & distance spent does not matter)

1.3k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:
In your case, you already have done all of the intermediate stages. When this cache is replaced, you can do a quick find and sign the log (unless CaptMorgan changes some of the 'clues' slightly)

Very soon, after i asked him to change the found to not found or note, and he refused, i offered him a compromise. I promised to tell him new final coordinates so he could find it without searching the previous stages again (as i will make slight modifications to almost all stages of this multicache). I thought it would be a fair play.

Well, he was willing to get the new coordinates, but still he refused to change his logging...

May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Leprechauns:

quote:
Originally posted by Kouros:
Or, to put it another way, is it true that there is an empty glass sat next to my computer?

At the time of my writing, the statement is true. By the time you read this, it may, or may not be.

My version of the truth is that there is a glass there. Your version (though you are unlikely to know the truth) is that there may not be.

There USED to be an empty glass, but 68 Dodger peed in it. So now the question becomes, is the glass half full or half empty?

Dang, I thought that was apple juice!

------

An it harm none, do what ye will

1.4k · May 5, 2003

I found this post by the person in question on another thread. He seems to have changed his mind since he posted this note

quote:
Originally posted by Mesu:
<<SNIP>>

If I search for a cache and think that it does exist but I just could not find it this time, I probably do not log the Not-found because it might discourage people from looking for it. Someone might think that the cache has been taken away.

On the other hand, if I search thoroughly and think that the cache does not exist or is more difficult than classified, then I tend to log it "not found."

Your words Mesu.....

====================================

As always, the above statements are just MHO.

====================================

May 5, 2003

It's technically not a find, I would not log it personally, but it is up to the placer to accept it as a find or not.

I have posted several no-finds that turned out to be missing caches and I make the effort to hike in again to sign the logbook before I log a find.

Having said that I did let some guy log a cache of mine as a find since he was the one that reported it missing to me (which is a good thing). He found a piece of it and had obviously found the site (and of course when I went in to check it was gonzo), but once it was disabled online I would not expect any find logs until after it was replaced.

6.4k · May 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Harrald:
I found this post by the person in question on another thread. He seems to have changed his mind since he posted this note

quote:
Originally posted by Mesu:
<<SNIP>>

If I search for a cache and think that it does exist but I just could not find it this time, I probably do not log the Not-found because it might discourage people from looking for it. Someone might think that the cache has been taken away.

_On the other hand, if I search thoroughly and think that the cache does not exist or is more difficult than classified, then I tend to log it "not found."

OMG Harrald! THAT is tooo funny. Thanks for finding it.

And for those keeping count at home, the polls are currently at 56-5. We know 1 of the 5 is Mesu, wonder who the other 4 are?

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

[/list

May 5, 2003

I am amazed that there is a "difference of opinion" on this.

If a physical cache hasn't been in my hands, it is a DNF.

I have logged a find where I forgot something to write with and found nothing in the cache to write in the log with--but I did put fingerprints on it...

If this were my cache I would email the "finder" and let them know there log had been deleted and why.

Effort is great, but success is success. I think this is another symptom of people putting too much emphasis on the numbers...

Dave_W6DPS

My two cents worth, refunds available on request. (US funds only)

POLL: Is it acceptable to log removed cache as found ?

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