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Release Notes (Website: Log upvotes) - March 15, 2021


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28 minutes ago, Blazez said:

Yeah, I was also wondering about this . apparently someone marked one of my logs as a "great story". So I went looking where you can see this. Well, I didn't find it. 

No email, no message, nothing in statistics. So what on earth would be the point of this. 

Seriously if you don't even know that someone marked your log, how can this then help to get better logs. 

 

If there was some mentioning in statistics that you got this or that upvotes, that would be nice. BUT ONLY if there also would be a downvote function with statistics. I would really, really LOVE to downvote al those stupid "TFTC", "Found it" or worse "logged with Garmin live geocaching "  logs. Perhaps when receiving a message telling you that again someone marked your log as useless trash would inspire to write a decent log.

I vote no. This is a terrible idea. Surely you can imagine how this can be abused. 

 

Just because someone voted your log as useless trash in no way means it is not a decent log. 

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7 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I vote no. This is a terrible idea. Surely you can imagine how this can be abused. 

 

Just because someone voted your log as useless trash in no way means it is not a decent log. 

This is no different that someone (friend of friend of friend) upvoting a copy-paste log to show off their "OMG I make such beautiful logs" statistics. 

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4 minutes ago, Blazez said:

This is no different that someone (friend of friend of friend) upvoting a copy-paste log to show off their "OMG I make such beautiful logs" statistics. 

I agree. They're both terrible ideas. 

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2 hours ago, Blazez said:

BUT ONLY if there also would be a downvote function with statistics. I would really, really LOVE to downvote al those stupid "TFTC", "Found it" or worse "logged with Garmin live geocaching "  logs. Perhaps when receiving a message telling you that again someone marked your log as useless trash would inspire to write a decent log.


Is there any way of downvoting this in the forum? 😉

Edited by IceColdUK
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2 hours ago, Blazez said:

If there was some mentioning in statistics that you got this or that upvotes, that would be nice.

BUT ONLY if there also would be a downvote function with statistics. I would really, really LOVE to downvote al those stupid "TFTC", "Found it" or worse "logged with Garmin live geocaching "  logs. Perhaps when receiving a message telling you that again someone marked your log as useless trash would inspire to write a decent log.

 

Groundspeak already said years ago that negatives towards members won't be done. 

 - Why you can ignore a cache, but not it's owner... 

When this was "just an idea...",  there were many who thought it would go sideways simply because of stats.

A "great story" today can simply be log length,  and we've all seen  how stats ruined that.

 - Multiple languages saying the same thing in one log, or cut n paste book pages for examples... 

I feel "helpful" will simply be hints n spoilers for others.  Folks also want ways to only see those in search. 

Simplicity/ease I guess... 

 

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Given that cachers in two countries have been seeing - and occasionally using - this feature for literally years, it's a fair bet that Groundspeak has already gathered all the feedback they care to read.

 

And given that the functionality appears identical to its original roll-out years ago (just now for more countries), it's also a fair bet that Groundspeak has decided no changes are needed.

 

Comment out one line, done:

//if (country == Canada || country == Norway)
{
	....
}

 

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5 hours ago, Blazez said:

This is no different that someone (friend of friend of friend) upvoting a copy-paste log to show off their "OMG I make such beautiful logs" statistics. 

 

But, there is no way currently to "show off" your upvoted log. The only place to see it is in the cache listing. How much value is there in "showing off" that?  That's the argument for not making upvotes a public statistic. 

 

Right now the ones who get the most value are the ones who read the cache listing. Not the poster of the log that's upvoted, not the one who upvotes. IMO, that's the best place to direct the value. I'd even say the intent of the feature is not to encourage good logs - that makes the beneficiary the writer of the logs. These ratings are intended to make other geocachers, log history readers the beneficiaries, for searching out good logs while geocaching or researching. That should be who gets the most out of the feature. That is what the ratings indicate, after all.

 

 

3 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

I feel "helpful" will simply be hints n spoilers for others.  Folks also want ways to only see those in search. 

 

When used properly, helpful could also be tips for getting to the cache that the CO may not want to incorporate into the listing, or info that's helpful that the CO does eventually add to the listing.  10 year old 'helpful' logs may no longer be relevant :P But if the CO is attentive, and doesn't like spoilers in the logs, ideally 'helpful' won't include spoilers because CO would have dealt with them. = )

Or another way to think of it, if there are logs with spoilers highlighted as 'helpful', the CO probably either doesn't care or isn't active.  Even so, seeking out and using spoilers is at least a personal choice.

 

Ultimately, it still to me seems like a whole lot more positive value with this feature than potential negative abuse.

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24 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Right now the ones who get the most value are the ones who read the cache listing. Not the poster of the log that's upvoted, not the one who upvotes. IMO, that's the best place to direct the value. I'd even say the intent of the feature is not to encourage good logs - that makes the beneficiary the writer of the logs. These ratings are intended to make other geocachers, log history readers the beneficiaries, for searching out good logs while geocaching or researching. That should be who gets the most out of the feature. That is what the ratings indicate, after all.

 

I'd like to agree with you, as I'm sure that's how it's meant to work, but I wonder how it will actually pan out in practice. We've heard very little about the trial experience in Canada and Norway, and, given that the best example HQ could come with of a log with 9 Great Story votes and 10 Helpful votes appears to be neither a great story nor helpful, I really have to wonder if this will be anything more than mates giving each other Likes and a way of highlighting spoilers to help make quick finds.

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2 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

I'd like to agree with you, as I'm sure that's how it's meant to work, but I wonder how it will actually pan out in practice. We've heard very little about the trial experience in Canada and Norway, and, given that the best example HQ could come with of a log with 9 Great Story votes and 10 Helpful votes appears to be neither a great story nor helpful, I really have to wonder if this will be anything more than mates giving each other Likes and a way of highlighting spoilers to help make quick finds.

I ticked a log the other day as helpful, because it mentioned the coordinates being out, which I also found. That is the main use I can see with this.

 

Log: "The hint was way more accurate than the coords"

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12 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

I ticked a log the other day as helpful, because it mentioned the coordinates being out, which I also found. That is the main use I can see with this.

 

Log: "The hint was way more accurate than the coords"

 

That would appear to be a good use for it, as long as the CO doesn't just add another Helpful vote to the log rather than update the coordinates :P.

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22 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

That would appear to be a good use for it, as long as the CO doesn't just add another Helpful vote to the log rather than update the coordinates :P.

They haven't updated the coordinates:omnomnom:. Still waiting...

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8 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

given that the best example HQ could come with of a log with 9 Great Story votes and 10 Helpful votes appears to be neither a great story nor helpful, I really have to wonder

I wouldn't judge the usefulness of an entire feature set based on the whim of a blog writer or marketing lackey :P

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16 hours ago, Blazez said:

If there was some mentioning in statistics that you got this or that upvotes, that would be nice. BUT ONLY if there also would be a downvote function with statistics. I would really, really LOVE to downvote al those stupid "TFTC", "Found it" or worse "logged with Garmin live geocaching "  logs. Perhaps when receiving a message telling you that again someone marked your log as useless trash would inspire to write a decent log.

 

No, I don't think it would. 

 

And in any case Groundspeak said no to negative votes on forum posts and no to negative votes on caches (reverse Favorites). No way they would allow downvoting of logs.

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As the feature of "upvoting" logs in the cache is also available for the cache owner I would love to see this option being available in the Cache owner dashboard. Because even when clicking the "view log" you are linked directly into the log where you see the old site without the new feature.

 

Visualization (?):

obraz.png.f5cf85f99b402679fe4468b90b5d57dc.png

 

  

 

Currently the only way to give an upvote is to visit the cache listing and scroll, and scroll, and scroll.. This is not a convenient thing.

 

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How does this help me in the field with playing the game?

 

GPS doesn't show this.

Even the official geocaching app doesn't show this.

 

And before you go adding this to the app. Please fix actual issues with the app.

e.g. The app can't even handle log formatting according to: https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=107&pgid=739

At least make it display a log properly first.

Edited by ardila.nl
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Looks like an update just went live. The buttons are now vertically aligned with the "View Log" link (as suggested by terratin), so that less vertical space is wasted.

 

Good change, thank you.

 

That said, I'm still blocking the buttons. Here is the updated rule:

www.geocaching.com##td > .LogDisplayRight.FloatLeft > .log-cta > .upvotes

 

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I found one of my son's caches a couple of weeks ago and, as an experiment, he marked my log as "Great Story".  I would have expected some sort of notification that someone liked my log, but nothing.

 

If he hadn't told me he had done it I would never have known unless I looked at the log (and why would I?)

 

What is the point of this?  There's no incentive to write good logs if you don't know when someone likes them.  I definitely don't want a public statistic about this, but I would like to know that someone has marked the log as helpful or a great story.

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That's funny, I'd bump it :P

 

How many (subjectively) unimpressive caches have been given favorite points? No one said ratings would only big given to caches/logs by any one individual person's standards. It's a guide, not a guarantee.

 

ETA: I am of course kidding about voting it up - there are too many "." logs, and they're not all great stories. Just pointing out that the irony is humorous. ymmv

Edited by thebruce0
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While I enjoyed the latest update to the Geocaching(R) app, I can now NOT use it with the cachetur app on my phone. I've talked to their Support and they cannot find a problem. I did check in my phone's setting that the Geocaching(R) app would be used by default when a geocache was selected, but it continually goes to the web site and NOT the app. This is very frustrating as it worked before the last update, and I found it very useful. If anyone can suggest a solution, I'd really appreciate it. green_words

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On 4/5/2021 at 1:43 PM, Mausebiber said:

Yes, indeed, a very useful feature fo find "Great stories"

.

931418579_greatstory.jpg.ebcbb09ae364d379d18656e2063ec388.jpg

 

 

If we all upvote such logs as 'great story' then maybe the buttons vanish again, or this one will be changed to 'Great Story (just kidding)'.
Just kidding. I don't care about those buttons. And now that everything's a bit smaller it's actually not that distracting anymore. Good improvement.

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