+JingleBella Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Is there any etiquette when finding a cache second but logging it first? Had a few FTF's last night and I noticed on one of them the 2TF logged before I did. I cache with my iPhone so I just had to wait to send my logs when I was back on a wifi connection to be cautious of my data usage. It only would have been 30 minutes after the find lol. Anytime I've gone after a FTF and get there second (or third) I watch the listing and wait till the FTFer logs. Maybe this isn't something a lot of cachers do? Does it effect any of my personal geocaching statistics on my profile? Thanks! Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 It does not affect your stats. The FTF side game is not recognized by Groundspeak. As to your current issue, I'm not seeing a problem. If claiming publicly that you were FTF is important to you, simply mention it in your log. Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) Anytime I've gone after a FTF and get there second (or third) I watch the listing and wait till the FTFer logs. Maybe this isn't something a lot of cachers do? Around here, it's not a issue, since the FTF people get the cache within a couple of minutes and log by phone . You can wait, or you can log it, either way it's no big deal. You can say "I'm Second-To-Find", or "I saw another signature in the log", or "congratulations to [whoever]", if you think there would be confusion. I don't use the term "first"-anything anymore if I'm not FTF, because people are kinda crazy about FTF around here, and let's just say I'm trying to prevent future misunderstandings. But I log online without any special waiting period. If I'm not sure I'm FTF, (such as one this week where two people hid it, both signed the log and one even wrote "FTF!" but neither cacher logged it as a Find), I just type the log as if it were any other already-found cache. Does it effect any of my personal geocaching statistics on my profile? Whatever you're using to collect the stats should be designed to work regardless. There are GSAK scripts that scan your logs for key words, so if you type "FTF" in a log (or not), it doesn't matter what logs were posted before yours. Edited August 17, 2013 by kunarion Quote Link to comment
+The_Incredibles_ Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I don't think many people care. Groundspeak doesn't keep track of your FTFs so it doesn't really matter what order they're logged in. Quote Link to comment
+Semper Questio Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Around here we have a very few folks that strongly believe any finding a cache after FTF should wait to log until the FTFer has logged their FTF...they call it FTL (First To Log) and that should be reserved for FTF. Personally, I think that's nonsense. Ya find it, ya log it whenever you're ready. Quote Link to comment
+SwineFlew Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I don't think many people care. Groundspeak doesn't keep track of your FTFs so it doesn't really matter what order they're logged in. I think many FTF hogs would care! Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I don't think many people care. Groundspeak doesn't keep track of your FTFs so it doesn't really matter what order they're logged in. I think many FTF hogs would care! Certainly. But since they make up such a tiny portion of the population, TI's post is accurate. Quote Link to comment
+J the Goat Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I don't think many people care. Groundspeak doesn't keep track of your FTFs so it doesn't really matter what order they're logged in. I think many FTF hogs would care! If they're that worried about it, they should log it faster. Part of the silly little side game, is it not? Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Common courtesy would suggest allowing he FTF to log first. But it is quite apparent that common courtesy no longer exists. ME! ME!! I'm entitled! Sad aspect of modern society. Quote Link to comment
+Team Hugs Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 On the other hand, if you're in an area with a bunch of FTF hounds, logging a STF allows everyone else to know that the hunt is over, even if the FTF hasn't been able to log it yet ... Quote Link to comment
+captnemo Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Common courtesy would suggest allowing he FTF to log first. But it is quite apparent that common courtesy no longer exists. ME! ME!! I'm entitled! Sad aspect of modern society. Harry Dolphin is right. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Common courtesy would suggest allowing he FTF to log first. But it is quite apparent that common courtesy no longer exists. ME! ME!! I'm entitled! Sad aspect of modern society. Harry Dolphin is right. No, he's not. What he claims is "common courtesy" is naught but him extending his own entitlement mentality to those who were FTF. I find cache "X". I log cache "X" when I am able. Only someone brimming with self entitlement would suggest that I should sit around, twiddling my thumbs, waiting till the FTF logs the find. Truly, the ultimate depiction of the "Me!" "Me!" society he claims to abhor. I believe introductions betwixt Mr Pot & Mrs Kettle are in order. Quote Link to comment
+cheech gang Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Enlighten me. The first person to find and sign the physical log is the first person to find the cache. Why does it matter when they subsequently log on line or where that loog ends up in the sequence on line? If they were there first they were there first. So what if "film at 11:00" comes later? I was first to find on the first cache in St. Kitts. Does the fact that I wasn't able to log it on line for two weeks negate that? Quote Link to comment
+tozainamboku Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 People seem to give magical powers to the online log. Other that is causes your smiley count to go up one, it might trigger a souvenir, and some challenges are based on what you have logged online (despite a claim to be based on what you found), I don't think it has any of the other powers people have attributed to it. It certainly doesn't change who found the cache first. Quote Link to comment
+JL_HSTRE Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I've seen plenty of logs that said some variant of "Second To Find, First To Log." Quote Link to comment
+Walts Hunting Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Actually it is common courtesy to log it when you find it. Just because you are worried about your data (and what could it be a couple of K to log it) why should the rest of the geocaching world wait while you worry about a silly nonexistent game. Quote Link to comment
+Fridge01 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 If I'm first to log I typically acknowledge the first finder in my log, or at least mention that it wasn't me. There are a lot of people watching new caches and it's a courtesy to them to write a log at my first opportunity. Quote Link to comment
+The_Incredibles_ Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I don't think many people care. Groundspeak doesn't keep track of your FTFs so it doesn't really matter what order they're logged in. I think many FTF hogs would care! Not in my area. Oink. Quote Link to comment
+Mudfrog Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Common courtesy would suggest allowing he FTF to log first. But it is quite apparent that common courtesy no longer exists. ME! ME!! I'm entitled! Sad aspect of modern society. Harry Dolphin is right. No, he's not. What he claims is "common courtesy" is naught but him extending his own entitlement mentality to those who were FTF. I find cache "X". I log cache "X" when I am able. Only someone brimming with self entitlement would suggest that I should sit around, twiddling my thumbs, waiting till the FTF logs the find. Truly, the ultimate depiction of the "Me!" "Me!" society he claims to abhor. I believe introductions betwixt Mr Pot & Mrs Kettle are in order. Thank you CR! No, i'm not going to purposely rush and try to beat someone with the first found it log. However, i'm also not going to just sit around and watch paint dry waiting for a slow moving, possibly sandbagging cacher to do their thing. Quote Link to comment
+The Jester Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 And then there's those threads about the FTF waiting to log the find until someone else does to "keep the anticipation alive" or some such. I was first to log, fourth to find - after eleven months once. I think that's long enough to wait... Quote Link to comment
+JingleBella Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Common courtesy would suggest allowing he FTF to log first. But it is quite apparent that common courtesy no longer exists. ME! ME!! I'm entitled! Sad aspect of modern society. Harry Dolphin is right. No, he's not. What he claims is "common courtesy" is naught but him extending his own entitlement mentality to those who were FTF. I find cache "X". I log cache "X" when I am able. Only someone brimming with self entitlement would suggest that I should sit around, twiddling my thumbs, waiting till the FTF logs the find. Truly, the ultimate depiction of the "Me!" "Me!" society he claims to abhor. I believe introductions betwixt Mr Pot & Mrs Kettle are in order. Thank you CR! No, i'm not going to purposely rush and try to beat someone with the first found it log. However, i'm also not going to just sit around and watch paint dry waiting for a slow moving, possibly sandbagging cacher to do their thing. I hardly think waiting 30 minutes to log is comparable to watching paint dry. I've waited over a day before, so I guess it's just me. I wait for the first finder to log it and will continue to. It's really no big deal to me to delay a log. Quote Link to comment
team tisri Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Is there any etiquette when finding a cache second but logging it first? Had a few FTF's last night and I noticed on one of them the 2TF logged before I did. I cache with my iPhone so I just had to wait to send my logs when I was back on a wifi connection to be cautious of my data usage. It only would have been 30 minutes after the find lol. Anytime I've gone after a FTF and get there second (or third) I watch the listing and wait till the FTFer logs. Maybe this isn't something a lot of cachers do? Does it effect any of my personal geocaching statistics on my profile? Thanks! Nope, Groundspeak doesn't count FTFs so log it whenever you're ready. A lot of concepts about etiquette when logging sound fine in theory but soon become unworkable - if the FTF was a cacher on holiday who won't be logging for several days it's clearly not sensible to expect all other finders to wait a week before logging their find, so rather than endlessly fuss over how long you should wait just go ahead and log it when you're ready. It's not unheard of for the first log on the site to say something like "beaten to FTF by four minutes by SomeOtherCacher" or similar. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I hardly think waiting 30 minutes to log is comparable to watching paint dry. What about waiting 2 hours? 2 days? 2 weeks? 2 months? At what point does your waiting become silly? As The Jester pointed out, there are folks out there who will go out and grab an FTF, then not log it until they see other activity on the cache page. I'm unclear as to their motivation. The few I've spoken with say they are poking fun at the local FTF hounds? Then there are folks on vacation, who won't log anything till they get home. You'll be waiting a long time for them. Then there are folks with busy lives who log when they are able. (I fall into this category) I won't deliberately withhold logging a cache, but there have been times when there have been several days betwixt when I found the cache and when I logged it. As you say, it's your call. I had mistakenly assumed since you asked a question that you were seeking alternative opinions, rather than simply seeking an affirmation of your beliefs. Quote Link to comment
+baloo&bd Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 There is also those of us who do not generally log immediately. After a cache run with friends it may take me weeks or months to log them, since first to find isno different than my 63rd to find, it may take a while before my log gets posted. Not "watching paint dry" or lack of "common courtesy", just not in a big rush. No harm, no foul. Quote Link to comment
+ChileHead Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Actually it is common courtesy to log it when you find it. Just because you are worried about your data (and what could it be a couple of K to log it) why should the rest of the geocaching world wait while you worry about a silly nonexistent game. I don't think the rest of the geocaching world is waiting for a log. People should log their caches when they want to and when it's convenient for them. Not everybody cares about the FTF game. Some people don't like to log from their phone, not because of cost, but because it's a pain to type out a log. They want to type out a longer log when they are back at their computer. Quote Link to comment
+Packanack Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 At times when I am first to find, I will purposefully hold back logging on line to allow some interest in the cache to ripen, especially if I think it will be a difficult find. I am not one of the obsessive local FTF hounds, so it does make for some little bit of enjoyment to just lay back and watching. When I log has no bearing on when anyone else logs. Quote Link to comment
+Trucker Lee Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Doesn't matter who logs online first, only one found the cache first. If you were STF, just say so in your log and mention the FTF with an "attaboy" if you like. If you were FTF, proudly say so in your log even if you were delayed in getting online. If keeping track, programs like GSAK will pick it up for you. Quote Link to comment
+lamoracke Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I have yet to see someone who gets miffed about who logs it first online, log it when you want/can. Second, third, 62nd. Some folks may say for fun, first to log! Probably someone out there who found it first and would get a tad miffed they did not log it first, but ignore that person. Quote Link to comment
team tisri Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Actually it is common courtesy to log it when you find it. Just because you are worried about your data (and what could it be a couple of K to log it) why should the rest of the geocaching world wait while you worry about a silly nonexistent game. ... which of course assumes people have a smartphone, have data coverage, have the inclination to type a log on a tiny screen in the field, all to satisfy some random stranger's ideas of what they should be doing. It's common courtesy to not fuss over things that make no difference to anyone. I remember a time I went out to find a series of three caches, got FTF on all three of them in the morning and didn't log them until the evening simply because I had other things to do and didn't get to my PC until then. In the meantime at least two other people had gone out hoping to get FTF only to find they had been beaten to it. The flipside is that I've been out thinking FTF was still available only to find I'd been beaten to it by several hours but the finder hadn't logged it yet. Those are the chances you take when you go out aiming for an FTF. And in any context other than FTF nobody really gives a rat's rear how many people found it before they did so it's still academic. Quote Link to comment
+sassydil Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Common courtesy would suggest allowing he FTF to log first. But it is quite apparent that common courtesy no longer exists. ME! ME!! I'm entitled! Sad aspect of modern society. I disagree with waiting for the FTF to log on line first. Two examples why I do not wait : I found a cache 11 months ago and the cachers (not muggles) who found it the day before me still have not logged their find. And the only other find on it other than mine was 3 days ago. I found another cache 7/12/12. The cache was placed 7/1/12 and published 7/10/12. There was a log in the physical log book dated 7/1 saying they saw it being placed and snuck over to sign the log before the cache got muggled. They are from out of state and I guess they forgot to check and see that the cache got published. Quote Link to comment
+snow_rules Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Technical speaking it takes 3 things to make a "Find" 1 - Locate the cache, 2 - Sign the log, 3 - Log it online. If a player does only 1 or 2 of the things it really isn't a find according the Groundspeak. So if you are the first to accomplish all 3 of the requirements you would really be the First to Find. Quote Link to comment
+Kacher82 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Technical speaking it takes 3 things to make a "Find" 1 - Locate the cache, 2 - Sign the log, 3 - Log it online. If a player does only 1 or 2 of the things it really isn't a find according the Groundspeak. So if you are the first to accomplish all 3 of the requirements you would really be the First to Find. Logging online is optional. Quote Link to comment
+snow_rules Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Technical speaking it takes 3 things to make a "Find" 1 - Locate the cache, 2 - Sign the log, 3 - Log it online. If a player does only 1 or 2 of the things it really isn't a find according the Groundspeak. So if you are the first to accomplish all 3 of the requirements you would really be the First to Find. Logging online is optional. From Geocaching 101 What are the rules of geocaching? If you take something from the geocache (or "cache"), leave something of equal or greater value. Write about your find in the cache logbook. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com. Quote Link to comment
+Don_J Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Around here we have a very few folks that strongly believe any finding a cache after FTF should wait to log until the FTFer has logged their FTF...they call it FTL (First To Log) and that should be reserved for FTF. Personally, I think that's nonsense. Ya find it, ya log it whenever you're ready. I think that it's nonsense as well. I log my caches when I have time to do so, and I log all of my caches in the order that I found them. I'm not going to hold off on a days logging because someone else thinks I'm supposed to wait. Also, I may get a FTF on the way to work and not be able to log it until much later in the day when I get home. I would never expect anyone else to hold off on their logging because I didn't have time to log my FTF. This is not an issue locally, but I guess if people were really freaking out about it, I could post a note and change it later, which would keep my logs in order. Quote Link to comment
+Don_J Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Common courtesy would suggest allowing he FTF to log first. But it is quite apparent that common courtesy no longer exists. ME! ME!! I'm entitled! Sad aspect of modern society. So, if I can't log my FTF until 12 hours after I found it, the whole world is supposed to wait for me? That wouldn't be entitlement as well? Quote Link to comment
+Don_J Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Technical speaking it takes 3 things to make a "Find" 1 - Locate the cache, 2 - Sign the log, 3 - Log it online. If a player does only 1 or 2 of the things it really isn't a find according the Groundspeak. So if you are the first to accomplish all 3 of the requirements you would really be the First to Find. Logging online is optional. From Geocaching 101 What are the rules of geocaching? If you take something from the geocache (or "cache"), leave something of equal or greater value. Write about your find in the cache logbook. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com. Kind of hard to write about my find in the logbook of the bus stop micro I found on the way home from work. Obviously, if I want credit on Geocaching.com for finding a cache, I'll need to log it online, but not logging it online does not mean that I haven't found it. Saying otherwise defies logic. Quote Link to comment
+dprovan Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I'm sure there are regional variations, but where I cache, people just log when they get online without worrying about whether the FTF's filed a log yet. I'm actually more likely to be the slow FTF logger, but the times I find myself logging an 2TF before the FTF, I normally note in my online log whose signature was ahead of mine in the log just to avoid confusion. Once in a while, if I know the FTF is normally a quick logger, I'll drag my feet, but that's not really etiquette so much as an attempt to keep the logs in order. Quote Link to comment
team tisri Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 ... not logging it online does not mean that I haven't found it. Saying otherwise defies logic. No more so than the people who argue that if you saw the cache, retrieved it, opened it, removed the log, but then realised you'd left your pen in the previous cache so you couldn't sign the log, then you didn't find it. Quote Link to comment
team tisri Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I think the only time I waited for the FTF to log it was when I knew the FTF - a caching buddy was in town from abroad and found an apparently unlisted cache with a virgin log book. I couldn't find any sign of it so asked the reviewer whether what I'd found was an unpublished cache or the final to a multi/puzzle. It turned out my friend found the cache four days before it was published, so when it went live I emailed him so he could log it first. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Common courtesy would suggest allowing he FTF to log first. But it is quite apparent that common courtesy no longer exists. ME! ME!! I'm entitled! Sad aspect of modern society. Harry Dolphin is right. No, he's not. What he claims is "common courtesy" is naught but him extending his own entitlement mentality to those who were FTF. I find cache "X". I log cache "X" when I am able. Only someone brimming with self entitlement would suggest that I should sit around, twiddling my thumbs, waiting till the FTF logs the find. Truly, the ultimate depiction of the "Me!" "Me!" society he claims to abhor. I believe introductions betwixt Mr Pot & Mrs Kettle are in order. I'm with CR on this. I log my finds when I get in front of a computer. If my log comes before the FTF logs, so be it. I don't involved myself with the FTF nonsense and for someone to demand I play along with it to suit them certainly shows a level of self entitlement. Besides why would the order the logs come in matter to anyone? I'm sure the FTF will make it known in his log that he won the game. Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) If my log comes before the FTF logs, so be it. I don't involved myself with the FTF nonsense and for someone to demand I play along with it to suit them certainly shows a level of self entitlement. Besides why would the order the logs come in matter to anyone? I'm sure the FTF will make it known in his log that he won the game. The log sequence issue extends far beyond “nonsense” . It would may be OK (I'd suppose) if it were limited to making a point of sticking a thumb in the eye of the “FTF”. But cachers don't use common sense or consideration of others, especially in logs that are delayed. There are two local caches, one has a sequence of logs like this: “Found It” “Found It” “Found It” “DNF. It's definitely missing, because it's not where I saw it yesterday.” “Found It” “Found It” What is the status of the above cache? (turns out, the container is gone) Another goes like this, after a long list of Finds, and these logs are over a period of months: “DNF, looked everywhere.” “DNF. There's construction now, the lot is empty.” “DNF” “DNF” “Found It!” “DNF” “DNF” So, is the container still there, or did someone delay a log? The issue is not simply a side game that annoys people and who therefore go out of their way to mess with people who play the side game. It's logs that are way out of sequence, the writer not seeming to notice that his log scrambles the cache history. Feel free to log when you have the time, but try to limit the confusion your delay causes. "Found It five months ago", or whatever. And I'd suggest not using log timing as yet another punishment for other cachers' transgressions. Edited August 18, 2013 by kunarion Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) If my log comes before the FTF logs, so be it. I don't involved myself with the FTF nonsense and for someone to demand I play along with it to suit them certainly shows a level of self entitlement. Besides why would the order the logs come in matter to anyone? I'm sure the FTF will make it known in his log that he won the game. The log sequence issue extends far beyond “nonsense” . It would may be OK (I'd suppose) if it were limited to making a point of sticking a thumb in the eye of the “FTF”. But cachers don't use common sense or consideration of others, especially in logs that are delayed. There are two local caches, one has a sequence of logs like this: “Found It” “Found It” “Found It” “DNF. It's definitely missing, because it's not where I saw it yesterday.” “Found It” “Found It” What is the status of the above cache? (turns out, the container is gone) Another goes like this, after a long list of Finds, and these logs are over a period of months: “DNF, looked everywhere.” “DNF. There's construction now, the lot is empty.” “DNF” “DNF” “Found It!” “DNF” “DNF” So, is the container still there, or did someone delay a log? The issue is not simply a side game that annoys people and who therefore use it as an excuse to mess with people who play the side game. It's logs that are way out of sequence, and the writer not seeming to notice that his log scrambles the cache history. Feel free to log when you have the time, but try to limit the confusion your delay causes. And I'd suggest not using log timing as yet another punishment for other cachers' transgressions. I assume the confusion in your examples are the result of delayed logs where the correct date wasn't used. Had the correct date been used they would have appeared in the proper order. I don't think anybody here is supporting the idea of using wrong dates in their logs. For logs on the same day I still argue that the order matters little. Sure a cache can go missing over the course of a day, but do we really want to worry about ensuring that all logs entered for a cache on the same day are in the exact find order? Edited August 18, 2013 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) I don't think anybody here is supporting the idea of using wrong dates in their logs. If the premise is that the logs being out of order is no big deal, then that premise can be extended to apply to any logs. do we really want to worry about ensuring that all logs entered for a cache on the same day are in the exact find order? No. My point is that when the ensuing logs are out of sequence, some note about the actual order is... in order. Edited August 18, 2013 by kunarion Quote Link to comment
+Sadjo Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I enjoy getting a FTF...5 of my now 93 finds are FTFs. In my area we have a ftf hound that jumped all over me a week ago because I didn't post a ftf online asap. Apparently he wouldn't have continued his trip to find the cache if he had realized he wasn't going to be the ftf. Funny thing is that particular day my two sons wanted to go caching (they're 7 & 9) and when they want to go caching it is better for us to go to an area that is cache rich to help keep their interest high...I didn't even realize we would be FTF until it was a blank log and then looking closer at the listing saw it went live earlier that same day. Now because of that reaction, I almost want to wait to do the online log because of how upset he was... Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I almost want to wait to do the online log because of how upset he was... And so it begins. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I don't think anybody here is supporting the idea of using wrong dates in their logs. If the premise is that the logs being out of order is no big deal, then that premise can be extended to apply to any logs. If you want to make that connection, go right ahead. I personally think it's a huge stretch. Quote Link to comment
+tozainamboku Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Technical speaking it takes 3 things to make a "Find" 1 - Locate the cache, 2 - Sign the log, 3 - Log it online. If a player does only 1 or 2 of the things it really isn't a find according the Groundspeak. So if you are the first to accomplish all 3 of the requirements you would really be the First to Find. Logging online is optional. From Geocaching 101 What are the rules of geocaching? If you take something from the geocache (or "cache"), leave something of equal or greater value. Write about your find in the cache logbook. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com. Once again someone trots out the so-called "rules" to make a ridiculous point. In this section the word "rules" is used to describe the way the game is commonly played. It is not a set of rules with penalties for those who wish to play slightly differently. Elsewhere there are guidelines for logging of caches that describe when a cache owner or Groundspeak might delete the online log, if that can be called a penalty, then cache owner might use it enforce signing the log. But there is no way for either Groundspeak or a cache owner to enforce logging online. You can cross out the name in the log book, but I doubt anyone is going to care. The online log is not a score, and despite the unfortunate use of the term "find count", this has little to do with finding caches. The find count is not the score for playing geocaching. It is simply the number of Found It, Attended, and Photo Taken logs a person has. It (partially) counts their activity on the website. FTF is not an official designation so it certainly is not based on the online log. Being unofficial one could define it as first to log online, or any find that occurs before the first online found log, or whatever one's little heart desires. The definition I hear a lot on the forum is first to sign the physical log. ... not logging it online does not mean that I haven't found it. Saying otherwise defies logic. No more so than the people who argue that if you saw the cache, retrieved it, opened it, removed the log, but then realised you'd left your pen in the previous cache so you couldn't sign the log, then you didn't find it. Correct. But it is odd that you seldom see threads calling people who don't log online or who log out of order "cheaters" People who give the online log an importance beyond what it is - perhaps even thinking of it as the score - would argue that if you don't log online you don't get a smiley so you haven't "scored". Some will argue that if you don't sign the physical log you aren't supposed to be logging online and those that you have been dishonest in some way and perhaps have corrupted the scoring. If on the other hand, you don't ascribe meaning to he online log beyond it being a way for geocachers to report on their geocaching experience, then you won't read meaning into the mention of online logs in the Geocaching 101 "rules" or argue the the guideline for logging caches means you can't log your finds if you lose your pen. I enjoy getting a FTF...5 of my now 93 finds are FTFs. In my area we have a ftf hound that jumped all over me a week ago because I didn't post a ftf online asap. Apparently he wouldn't have continued his trip to find the cache if he had realized he wasn't going to be the ftf. When going for a FTF, I would expect that people know there is always a chance that someone will beat you to it. While the idea of getting notification on your cell phone that the cache has been logged and turning around because the FTF is not available seems a bit strange to me, what is really unacceptable is to get upset because you didn't get that notification and found a cache that already had a signature in the log book. Not everyone caches with a cell phone and even if they do, some people will avoid data charges and not log till they get to a free WiFi hotspot. Even if they do log, there is the chance that delays between the time of the find and the notification might mean you don't get the notification till after you are at the cache. I don't understand this entitlement to know everything the minute it happens. I blame Twitter and CNN. Quote Link to comment
+Don_J Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I enjoy getting a FTF...5 of my now 93 finds are FTFs. In my area we have a ftf hound that jumped all over me a week ago because I didn't post a ftf online asap. Apparently he wouldn't have continued his trip to find the cache if he had realized he wasn't going to be the ftf. Imagine if you were watching an Olympic running event and 9/10ths of the runners quit running because they realized that they weren't going to win. That FTF hound can jump all he wants. It's just a distraction of the fact that he has his priorities all out whack. Quote Link to comment
team tisri Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I don't think anybody here is supporting the idea of using wrong dates in their logs. If the premise is that the logs being out of order is no big deal, then that premise can be extended to apply to any logs. do we really want to worry about ensuring that all logs entered for a cache on the same day are in the exact find order? No. My point is that when the ensuing logs are out of sequence, some note about the actual order is... in order. So now things get even more silly. When I find a cache should I make a note of the last half a dozen or so finders so I can make sure I don't log it before any of the previous finders? What if someone writes out of sequence, or writes on the back of a rolled up cache log because they can't be bothered to unroll it and then have to roll it up again? If I found a cache on the 18th then I'll log it when I get around to it. Usually that will be on the 18th but if I can't get at a computer or an internet connection until the 21st the log won't appear until the 21st. I'll try and get the date on the log right, and if the cache goes missing during the day between one person logging a find and another person going to look for it that's just the chance you take. Otherwise we'd need Groundspeak to implement a found log that specified the time as well as the date, and it would probably end up with all the times left as their default values because I can't imagine many people have any more inclination than I do to keep a detailed log of just what time they found a cache. Looking for something that isn't there is just one of the chances we take when we go geocaching. If people want a 100% guarantee that what they're seeking is there then geocaching might not be the right pastime. Quote Link to comment
team tisri Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I enjoy getting a FTF...5 of my now 93 finds are FTFs. In my area we have a ftf hound that jumped all over me a week ago because I didn't post a ftf online asap. Apparently he wouldn't have continued his trip to find the cache if he had realized he wasn't going to be the ftf. Too bad for him. The awkward streak in me would make a point of not logging FTFs for a few hours to let him "waste" a few more trips until he either gives up FTF hunts or gets over himself. Funny thing is that particular day my two sons wanted to go caching (they're 7 & 9) and when they want to go caching it is better for us to go to an area that is cache rich to help keep their interest high...I didn't even realize we would be FTF until it was a blank log and then looking closer at the listing saw it went live earlier that same day. Now because of that reaction, I almost want to wait to do the online log because of how upset he was... Do it... you know you want to. Seriously, does this guy just assume everybody else writes their logs the very nanosecond they find a cache? How often does he check for logs before continuing his trip? Does he get to GZ, see someone found it already, and not bother looking for it? Does he check every half a mile, every mile, every 5 miles? At some point he has to accept that someone beat him to it. I remember being beaten to FTF by three minutes (it was close enough the first finder still had the cache in his hand) - should he have phoned me to tell me not to bother going out to hunt it? Quote Link to comment
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