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Religious Materials OK?


AlphaOp
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Hey there, this is Alpha. I have quite a few great audio taped sermons by a few really good preachers (Seventh-Day Adventist, Protestant Christian) like Doug Batchelor, Clifford Goldstein, etcetera. They are on quite a few topics, one that helped me quite a lot was about anger, and another was about prayer. I'm going to rip many others (1 hour long, approx) into WMA and RA format, and toast them onto compact (200mb, 8cm) CDs. I thought about putting one or two of these in my cache for people who might like them.

 

Anyhoo, now, I'm not talking about a religious cache, I've heard of these before, caches stuffed with religious materials, etcetera. Now I'm not talking about doing that. I'm just curious if someone would not like to find a CD or two in a cache like that.

 

CODENAME: ALPHA OPERATOR

daedalus://govlink/secure/majestic/12.12.12/ops/throne/AO

MAJESTIC-12: THRONE G6 LEVEL AGENT

http://www.planetdeusex.com

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There was a really active topic on this about a month ago. Some suspect the originator was a troll (in the true sense, unlike some of the sock puppets roaming the halls these days). Anyway, it is a very divisive issue. In the end, you have to go with your instincts and hope they carry you.

 

I don't follow anyone's tenets but my own, so I'm a bonafide fence-straddler on the whole Supreme being vs. cosmic dust argument. I've found genuine peace of mind in Miles Davis' music, sunrises over the Rocky mountains, Beethoven's 9th Symphony as conducted by Herbert Von Karajan, Van Gogh's "Starry Night", and the pickings of an obscure folk musician. I didn't get much from 18 years in church. If something in those tapes helped you in your life, then go ahead and share them. You never know when it may reach someone and make their life better. On the other hand, someone may take them out and throw them in the trash. You never know.

 

Peace.

 

-E

 

--

N35°32.981 W98°34.631

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quote:
Originally posted by The Alpha Operator:

Hey there, this is Alpha. I have quite a few great audio taped sermons by a few really good preachers (Seventh-Day Adventist, Protestant Christian) like Doug Batchelor, Clifford Goldstein, etcetera. They are on quite a few topics, one that helped me quite a lot was about anger, and another was about prayer. I'm going to rip many others (1 hour long, approx) into WMA and RA format, and toast them onto compact (200mb, 8cm) CDs. I thought about putting one or two of these in my cache for people who might like them.

 

Anyhoo, now, I'm not talking about a religious cache, I've heard of these before, caches stuffed with religious materials, etcetera. Now I'm not talking about doing that. I'm just curious if someone would not like to find a CD or two in a cache like that.

 

CODENAME: ALPHA OPERATOR

daedalus://govlink/secure/majestic/12.12.12/ops/throne/AO

MAJESTIC-12: THRONE G6 LEVEL AGENT

http://www.planetdeusex.com

 

There was a *very* lively thread on this not long ago. (Zip up your flame proof suit!)

 

Personally, I think it's fine to leave items related to spiritual themes in caches. Don't overwhelm, be considerate. I have left tracts in some of *my* caches. I don't mind seeing religious stuff in other's caches. If it is going to be an "all religious" cache, be sure to say so in the description.

 

BTW, why is this in the "Unusual" section, not "General"?

 

Bluespreacher

 

"We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

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Regarding religious material in caches.. I've kept quiet on the subject, since I've found that it's rarely a productive conversation.

 

This question on the other hand, seems legitimate, and I appreciate Alpha looking into this first, before putting something in a cache that may or may not be objectionable.

 

My opinion? I won't take the CD's... but put 'em in there if you like. They won't burn my fingers and send me to hell if I open the cache, will they?

 

Jamie

 

(By the way, let's try not to get out of line on this thread. Alpha asked a question, let's try to stick to his question. I don't wanna see another 200-post thread again.)

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I believe the criteria is: if it is comercial, religious, or political 'advertising', then no, don't put it in. If it is a true personal interest or expersion of yourself and devoid of the advertising aspect, then yes, feel free to place it. Prehaps and example might be, a cross, yes, a tract, no.

 

Personally, I would neither remove nor take a tract, but I do see them as boring, and a waste of good ink. Your cd's may attract me if I felt they had a higher level of intellectual content to them and not just a rehashing of someone else's beliefs and why I should think the way they do.

 

4497_300.jpg

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I dont really see a problem with it. yes i agree most tracts are BORING. despite whether or not you agree with what they say. So, perhaps, make your own. its the personal touch that makes it worth taking. you could get a computer mic and record yourself giving your oppinions on the happenings of the day, if that involves political or religious "advertising" so be it. make yourself known. the community connection is what this sport is all about.

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--snippit from Hudson & Laundry, Loosing their Heads, 1940's--

 

Monjunior Schultz, you're a man of the cloth.

I'm hip!

And the reason the Internal Revenue Service has called you in here is to see if you qualify for a tax-free status.

Is 'dat right?

Yes.

It isn't a... a bust?

No.

It's not a frame?

Not a frame.

Well then, shoot.

Just gonna check you out, here. You call this new religion of yours, Fredrickism?

That's right, Fredrickism! Right on the money. You got it.

Speakin' of money, may I check your books?

Oh boy! That's where ya' got me.

OK, so what do you have to do to join this new religion?

Very simple, just give fourty percent of everything you got!

Forty percent?! Other religions have a top of ten percent!

Let 'em eat cake!

--------------------

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

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Used Religiouse Items have a value about the same as a McToy. Consider that when trading. On the other hand, leaving something as a calling card is perfictly legit. And in this I don't care if it's religiouse, political, or any other of a controversial nature.

 

One piece of advice. Be blantant in your leaving of religiouse materials. "Took Nothing, Left A CD Sermon on the mount reinactment". Don't be a religiouse lurker.

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You all are probably going to be shocked by what I'm about to say....

 

I used to teach Sunday school and I could thump a Bible in three part harmony back then.

 

I never did care for Chick tracks or many of the bumper stickers that they sold at the Christian bookstores.

I used to buy those inexpensive New Testiment Bibles and gift wrap them, accidently on purpose leaving them on the roof of my car.

 

I must have averaged about 100 Bibles a year with that method, but I figured that anyone who would steal a present off a car roof could use a little talking to. My phone number was written inside with "Call if you just need to talk with someone"

 

If you really want to reach out to heathen dog geocachers such as yours truly. A personal testimony of what your life was like before, why things are better now, maybe a FAQ of the questions we all ask... Combine all of that into a nice printout on decent paper. Fold it into something that will keep the weather off of it and use that as your geocaching signature item.

 

This might seem like a weird thing to say in this context but make sure you don't put anything in that testimony that would be alarming to children.

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quote:
Originally posted by Eric O'Connor:

You all are probably going to be shocked by what I'm about to say....

 

I used to teach Sunday school and I could thump a Bible in three part harmony back then.

 

I never did care for Chick tracks or many of the bumper stickers that they sold at the Christian bookstores.

I used to buy those inexpensive New Testiment Bibles and gift wrap them, accidently on purpose leaving them on the roof of my car.

 

I must have averaged about 100 Bibles a year with that method, but I figured that anyone who would steal a present off a car roof could use a little talking to. My phone number was written inside with "Call if you just need to talk with someone"

 

If you really want to reach out to heathen dog geocachers such as yours truly. A personal testimony of what your life was like before, why things are better now, maybe a FAQ of the questions we all ask... Combine all of that into a nice printout on decent paper. Fold it into something that will keep the weather off of it and use that as your geocaching signature item.

 

This might seem like a weird thing to say in this context but make sure you don't put anything in that testimony that would be alarming to children.


 

I think you are hitting pretty close to the bone here.

 

Bluespreacher

 

"We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

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quote:
I used to buy those inexpensive New Testiment Bibles and gift wrap them, accidently on purpose leaving them on the roof of my car.

 

I must have averaged about 100 Bibles a year with that method, but I figured that anyone who would steal a present off a car roof could use a little talking to. My phone number was written inside with "Call if you just need to talk with someone"

 


 

That's too good, it would be even funnier (though I'm sure you weren't trying to be at the time) to have the parts on stealing bookmarked. That's just classic, if I was very religoius I'd probably start doing that, not only gets your message out but it really is funny.

 

"...Not all those who wander are lost..."

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quote:
Originally posted by mikechim:

That's too good, it would be even funnier (though I'm sure you weren't trying to be at the time) to have the parts on stealing bookmarked. That's just classic, if I was very religoius I'd probably start doing that, not only gets your message out but it really is funny.


 

The funny thing was that I was getting flack from my fundy friends for "leading others into temptation"

 

Cue Rodney Dangerfield:

I remember I was so depressed I was going to jump out a window on the tenth floor. They sent a priest up to talk to me. He said, "On your mark..."

 

I had a lot of pimples too.  One day I fell asleep in a library.  I woke up and a blind man was reading my face.

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quote:
Originally posted by chubby forest monkey:

Although it is my personal opinion that religious material is as valuable as political material and does not belong in a cache, I think other cachers who actually do practice religion may agree with me when I say: WE SHOULD KEEP GEOCACHING A SECULAR SPORT!


 

No, we should keep Geocaching as the SUBJECT here. Including personal aspects are fine. But if we evanglize and advertise, we have changed the SUBJECT to religion or commercialism or politics and geocaching becomes just an aspect of THAT. Religion is fine as long as it is not replacing Geocaching as the focus of what we do here.

 

4497_300.jpg

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I personally do not care for religious items in a cache, but it's not all about me. icon_wink.gif I live in the bible belt, so religious items, especially Christian items, would be interesting and useful to a lot of folks down here. If you think people in your area would be interested in your items, place them.

 

I found a cache recently that had some religious materials in it. Most things I left, but I *did* take out the little "comic" that was basically a booklet of why Catholics were going straight to the devil if they didn't convert. That kind of thing is NOT cool, IMO. It is beyond not-cool -it is disrespectful, rude, intolerant, and hatefull. I don't know who left the item, since the logs didn't say, but if I ever find out, they are going to get a (respectful) earful from me about tolerance.

 

A walk in the park ain't always a walk in the park...

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I personally do not care for religious items in a cache, but it's not all about me. icon_wink.gif I live in the bible belt, so religious items, especially Christian items, would be interesting and useful to a lot of folks down here. If you think people in your area would be interested in your items, place them.

 

I found a cache recently that had some religious materials in it. Most things I left, but I *did* take out the little "comic" that was basically a booklet of why Catholics were going straight to the devil if they didn't convert. That kind of thing is NOT cool, IMO. It is beyond not-cool -it is disrespectful, rude, intolerant, and hatefull. I don't know who left the item, since the logs didn't say, but if I ever find out, they are going to get a (respectful) earful from me about tolerance.

 

A walk in the park ain't always a walk in the park...

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quote:

Most things I left, but I *did* take out the little "comic" that was basically a booklet of why Catholics were going straight to the devil if they didn't convert.


i know those, chic tracts their called, some are kinda funny, the ones that arent offensive.
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Religion CAN invoke a lot of strong personal feelings, so you certainly run the risk of getting someone ticked off. However, I think that if you traded fairly (assume the CD is just an "extra" and not your real trade item) and clearly identified the CD as being of a religous (Christian) nature, I say why not?

 

There have been a couple of threads lately about cache items and political correctness. My opinion is that we can all be individuals and get along without offending one another.

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It's not something I would take from the cache, but then again I would not take a Mozart CD from one either. But throw in an old ONJ or Gordon Lightfoot and I'm on it like a fat kid on a Smartie.

Hey, what can I say, one man's trash is another man's treasure. icon_smile.gif

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It's not something I would take from the cache, but then again I would not take a Mozart CD from one either. But throw in an old ONJ or Gordon Lightfoot and I'm on it like a fat kid on a Smartie.

Hey, what can I say, one man's trash is another man's treasure. icon_smile.gif

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As a committed Christian, I can understand the desire to share the Good News big-time.

 

As a signature piece, anything is probably OK.

 

I personally would be glad to find an item like that in a cache for me, BUT (you knew I was going there)

 

I don't think any item which has its goal to change someone's beliefs (about anything) belongs in a cache. It's just simply a matter of that not being the place for it.

 

There are lots of places where people can get religious information if they want it. That's not why they geocache. I'm not saying it wouldn't be helpful to some people, but think of this: what if you left a tract with your views, and then a Buddhist did the same, then a Mormon, then an NRA member, then a Ralph Nader supporter, then a pro-Palestinian, then a feminist, then Planned Parenthood, etc. Can you see how that would become tiresome or divisive?

 

Just my two cents, if everyone doing what I'm doing would be dysfunctional....

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quote:
Originally posted by Rigour:

I don't think any item which has its goal to change someone's beliefs (about anything) belongs in a cache. It's just simply a matter of that not being the place for it.

 

There are lots of places where people can get religious information if they want it. That's not why they geocache. I'm not saying it wouldn't be helpful to some people, but think of this: what if you left a tract with your views, and then a Buddhist did the same, then a Mormon, then an NRA member, then a Ralph Nader supporter, then a pro-Palestinian, then a feminist, then Planned Parenthood, etc. Can you see how that would become tiresome or divisive?


 

Well said, Rigour. This part is the most diplomatic statement of the views I have on the subject that I've ever seen.

 

It wouldn't have been a proper "religion and geocaching" topic if I hadn't posted something! icon_smile.gif

 

----------------------------------------------------------

Until you have the courage to lose sight of the shore,

You will not know the terror of being forever lost at sea.

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quote:
Originally posted by Rigour:

I don't think any item which has its goal to change someone's beliefs (about anything) belongs in a cache. It's just simply a matter of that not being the place for it.

 

There are lots of places where people can get religious information if they want it. That's not why they geocache. I'm not saying it wouldn't be helpful to some people, but think of this: what if you left a tract with your views, and then a Buddhist did the same, then a Mormon, then an NRA member, then a Ralph Nader supporter, then a pro-Palestinian, then a feminist, then Planned Parenthood, etc. Can you see how that would become tiresome or divisive?


 

Well said, Rigour. This part is the most diplomatic statement of the views I have on the subject that I've ever seen.

 

It wouldn't have been a proper "religion and geocaching" topic if I hadn't posted something! icon_smile.gif

 

----------------------------------------------------------

Until you have the courage to lose sight of the shore,

You will not know the terror of being forever lost at sea.

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How about your post? Are you not trying to influence my beliefs? How about this thread about convincing people not to litter. That is certainly trying to change my beliefs.

I am specifically not stating my beliefs in this thread (religious or otherwise), but merely pointing out that if you restrict people so broadly, then not much will be said.

 

stealyourcache.jpg "Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out." -Dru Morgan www.theheavenlyhost.com/dru

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This has probably been hashed over in the previous thread, but I missed that one. So, I'll follow up here.

 

I have no prob with religious materials in caches. Actually, I've yet to find a cache that didn't have religious materials in it, given that I live in Georgia. Personally, I find it a little annoying, but that's my baggage to carry. I always have the option of moving somewhere less "fundy" or not participating in geocaching.

 

However, what I think needs to be said is that these people who so rabidly throw tracts into caches shouldn't at all be surprised when they come across a pentacle, Torah, Koran, Ankh or some other religious item that they may strongly disagree with in a cache. Further, I would hope that these people would treat such items with the same respect they expect their tokens of faith to garnish.

 

Just my 2 cents..

Brian

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As an atheist, I find that religious material in caches is interesting enough that I've taken some of it (a soggy book of Mormon, for example) and left others. Not from a regligous standpoint, but from a psychological one (as in, ''Who reads this stuff, and what is it telling them?'').

 

And I really found We'll have nun of this quite an amusing cache, with glow-in-the-dark saints and finger puppet nuns inside.

 

I took a finger puppet nun who was baked into a clear soap cake. It's now pleasantly scenting my wife's car, which had smelled of cat vomit (another long story) before. Hallelujah!

 

"Why don't you just ask somebody?"

 

"No, no. I've got a map. Don't worry about that."

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quote:
Originally posted by chubby forest monkey:

WE SHOULD KEEP GEOCACHING A SECULAR SPORT!


 

I consider myself a somewhat religious person (beleive, seldom attend), but being a mischeivous devil's advocate here...

 

Isnt that just slanting it religiously towards those that are atheists, etc? after all, the absence of god (or any mention of it) is what they seem to crave icon_smile.gif.

 

somebody had to say it LOL

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quote:
Originally posted by chubby forest monkey:

WE SHOULD KEEP GEOCACHING A SECULAR SPORT!


 

I consider myself a somewhat religious person (beleive, seldom attend), but being a mischeivous devil's advocate here...

 

Isnt that just slanting it religiously towards those that are atheists, etc? after all, the absence of god (or any mention of it) is what they seem to crave icon_smile.gif.

 

somebody had to say it LOL

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I was raised as a Unitarian (west coast). We had a sunday school that taught us about other beliefs. Great education, one I am considering for my son. However I do resent it when people from other religions come to my door to "share their beliefs". Is this similar to putting religious items in a cache??? I'm not sure, (Haven't found a cache yet! icon_smile.gif).

I want to be able to seek out, for myself, what knowledge I need or want.

 

Visualize Whirled Peas

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I was raised as a Unitarian (west coast). We had a sunday school that taught us about other beliefs. Great education, one I am considering for my son. However I do resent it when people from other religions come to my door to "share their beliefs". Is this similar to putting religious items in a cache??? I'm not sure, (Haven't found a cache yet! icon_smile.gif).

I want to be able to seek out, for myself, what knowledge I need or want.

 

Visualize Whirled Peas

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My signature item is a Pocket Gospel of John. I leave them for two reasons: 1. It represents what is important to me. 2. Someone else might want to read it. When I read the rule about the political, commercial and religious caches, it looks like it refers to CACHES that are along those veins. When I create a cache (OK, I've only created 2 so far!), I put a mix of items in it, including a couple pocket bibles. I agree that a cache at a church, with instructions to pray at the altar before you open the cache, would be inappropriate, just like putting a cache at a store to bring in customers would be inappropriate, but I don't think a religious item in a cache is inappropriate, as long as you're not loading the cache down with religious items. And, I'm not surprised or overly offended if I find items from another religion in a cache. They have the same right as I do.

 

65614_200.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Dekaner of Team KKF2A:

Consider the legality of 'ripping' these sermons. Do the individuals who own the copyright to the material allow free distribution?

 

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A


What kind of Christian would be concerned about copytight when someone is trying to spread the Word in a non-commercial scenario like this? A good Christian ought to be happy that his/her sermons are reaching a larger audience

 

To add my 0.02 about religious material in caches, some religious lit is what I would call "friendly" (offering someone a chance to learn Good News) and some is what I call "heavy-handed" (hellfire and damnation).

 

I think most people aren't offended by friendly lit, but many are offended by the heavy-handed kind. To anyone considering placing religious material in a cache: please be considerate. Think about how someone who is not of your faith might react to your message. If it might be offending or upsetting, consider not placing it or revising it.

 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by hoovman:

quote:
Originally posted by Dekaner of Team KKF2A:

Consider the legality of 'ripping' these sermons. Do the individuals who own the copyright to the material allow free distribution?

 

- Dekaner of Team KKF2A


What kind of Christian would be concerned about copyright when someone is trying to spread the Word in a non-commercial scenario like this? A good Christian ought to be happy that his/her sermons are reaching a larger audience

 

To add my 0.02 about religious material in caches, some religious lit is what I would call "friendly" (offering someone a chance to learn Good News) and some is what I call "heavy-handed" (hellfire and damnation).

 

I think most people aren't offended by friendly lit, but many are offended by the heavy-handed kind. To anyone considering placing religious material in a cache: please be considerate. Think about how someone who is not of your faith might react to your message. If it might be offending or upsetting, consider not placing it or revising it.

 

http://www.mi-geocaching.org/


 

migo_sig_logo.jpg

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I don't see any problem with leaving a CD of this kind in a cache. Just be sure it's clearly labeled, so disinterested parties can just leave it there. There's nothing that says a geocacher has to take a particular item from the cache. My favorite caches are the ones that contain a variety of items.

 

By the way, as a Christian, I love the idea of Christian material in a cache. As long as you offer other items for those that are not interested in this material, and as long as you put this information in the description, I don't see how anyone could be offended. After all, it's your cache; put what you want in there!

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I couldn't have said it better.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Rigour:

As a committed Christian, I can understand the desire to share the Good News big-time.

 

As a signature piece, anything is probably OK.

 

I personally would be glad to find an item like that in a cache for me, BUT (you knew I was going there)

 

I don't think any item which has its goal to change someone's beliefs (about anything) belongs in a cache. It's just simply a matter of that not being the place for it.

 

There are lots of places where people can get religious information if they want it. That's not why they geocache. I'm not saying it wouldn't be helpful to some people, but think of this: what if you left a tract with your views, and then a Buddhist did the same, then a Mormon, then an NRA member, then a Ralph Nader supporter, then a pro-Palestinian, then a feminist, then Planned Parenthood, etc. Can you see how that would become tiresome or divisive?

 

Just my two cents, if everyone doing what I'm doing would be dysfunctional....


 

-Let's play Global Thermonuclear War-

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My vote is No don't put it in! My personal belief is you should stay neutral and not impose your personal opinions on anyone that is just having a good time doing what they enjoy! Besides If I rolled up I would take It and throw It away! Have a nice day.

 

Don't hunt what you can't kill!

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For a moment, lets change the belief system expounded upon here to the Islamic belief. How many folks who swoon at the thought of finding a Christian blessing or other icon in a cache, would equally swoon at finding Islamic materials in a cache? If these are equally welcomed, then thats the correct spirit. In anycase, it seems that Spiritual theme caches could be labeled as such so people can go to, or avoid them.

 

Keeping it simple and free from opinion is probably the best idea.

 

As someone stated earlier, as a signature item, its probably ok.

 

How about Satanist beliefs?

 

Its all so confusing...Glad I am a Theodolite!

 

"Vince Malum Patientia"

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I see no problem with leaving religious items. Leaving them in a cache does not force anyone to take them, read them, or anything else. They're just there, and the choice is yours to take or leave them. Interesting parallel, eh? icon_smile.gif

 

Theodolite ... isn't that another word for a surveyor's transit? I'm a bakelite, myself. icon_smile.gif

 

Scott

 

--

Scott Johnson (ScottJ)

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