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Just the fact that you asked that question means a lot. The answer is deep and it's complex. We are not part of the big social circle in our area. We don't attend events. We don't cache in groups. We are not friends with lots of other cachers but that is not to say we are not friendly when we meet other cachers because we are, and always will be. We are pretty much 'lone cachers,' who enjoy geocaching on our own as a team of 2. We are very competetive and wish geocaching in our area was more competetive but because it's not, I guess you could say that we try our best to make the game more competetive in our area. For example; we hit the trails at 4am 2 weeks ago and nabbed 40 FTFs on caches placed for a local event. We hit the trails at 4am, hiked 5.5 miles in the dark, in the rain and got 40 FTFs. We didn't do anything wrong or anything that violated guidelines etc.... we play the game the way it stimulates us the most like everybody else does but because we're the minority, we're hated for the way we play. That's just one small example of what makes us different....

so the event people placed all the caches and they were published early that morning for the event that day. You went and got FTF on all of them before anyone was even awake and didn't attend the event later that day? did I read that right? can you provide the GC code to one of these 40 caches?

The caches were published 2 days before the event. Open for everyone to hunt! Yes, we hit the trail at 4am and hiked 5.5 miles in the dark and the rain for 27 FTFs. IT WAS BRUTAL! We worked for it! We got the other 13 PNG FTFs on the way home after we hiked 5.5 miles in the dark, in the rain and yes, while everyone else was sleeping and no, we didn't attend the event.

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Here's another excerpt from your log on GC41T7E

 

By the time we got back to our vehicle we were soaked and full of mud but we decided to see if we could grab a few more FTFs. Got 13 more before the area was invaded by other cachers also out on quests for FTFs.

 

ok so 27 on that one trail and then 13 somewhere else in the area. no offence, but saying that the area was invaded by other cachers on quests for FTF's after you just snagged them all comes off as a little smug especially when the other cachers were attending the event, no?

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You make some strong accusations in your posts which in my opinion go somewhat further than a local rivalry or dispute. There is some inference that this has been reviewed by Groundspeak previously so I would be interested to hear what contact was made and what judgement was arrived at regarding your claims. Maybe you could elaborate.

My original post (24) remains relevant where your accusations could easily be construed as a case of harassment against you and should be taken away from the forums which could actually escalate the problem. I understand your upset and frustration so am very surprised that Groundspeak have not been involved previously or after reading this thread.

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Here's another excerpt from your log on GC41T7E

 

By the time we got back to our vehicle we were soaked and full of mud but we decided to see if we could grab a few more FTFs. Got 13 more before the area was invaded by other cachers also out on quests for FTFs.

 

ok so 27 on that one trail and then 13 somewhere else in the area. no offence, but saying that the area was invaded by other cachers on quests for FTF's after you just snagged them all comes off as a little smug especially when the other cachers were attending the event, no?

First of all, we didn't 'snag them all.' We (hard) EARNED 40 FTFs. There were 62 event caches published 2 DAYS before the event took place. EVERY CACHER IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA had the EXACT same opportunity to got after the FTFs!

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Here's another excerpt from your log on GC41T7E

 

By the time we got back to our vehicle we were soaked and full of mud but we decided to see if we could grab a few more FTFs. Got 13 more before the area was invaded by other cachers also out on quests for FTFs.

 

ok so 27 on that one trail and then 13 somewhere else in the area. no offence, but saying that the area was invaded by other cachers on quests for FTF's after you just snagged them all comes off as a little smug especially when the other cachers were attending the event, no?

First of all, we didn't 'snag them all.' We (hard) EARNED 40 FTFs. There were 62 event caches published 2 DAYS before the event took place. EVERY CACHER IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA had the EXACT same opportunity to got after the FTFs!

First of all, I'm just trying to help you figure out why this is happening to you so you can get over the hurt that you feel.

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By the time we got back to our vehicle we were soaked and full of mud but we decided to see if we could grab a few more FTFs. Got 13 more before the area was invaded by other cachers also out on quests for FTFs.

 

ok so 27 on that one trail and then 13 somewhere else in the area. no offence, but saying that the area was invaded by other cachers on quests for FTF's after you just snagged them all comes off as a little smug especially when the other cachers were attending the event, no?

First of all, we didn't 'snag them all.' We (hard) EARNED 40 FTFs. There were 62 event caches published 2 DAYS before the event took place. EVERY CACHER IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA had the EXACT same opportunity to got after the FTFs!

First of all, I'm just trying to help you figure out why this is happening to you so you can get over the hurt that you feel.

[/quote

We started this post because our caches have been stolen by the same 2, now 3, members for the past 5.5 years. Don't think it doesn't happen. It does.

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We are very competetive and wish geocaching in our area was more competetive but because it's not, I guess you could say that we try our best to make the game more competetive in our area. For example; we hit the trails at 4am 2 weeks ago and nabbed 40 FTFs on caches placed for a local event. We hit the trails at 4am, hiked 5.5 miles in the dark, in the rain and got 40 FTFs. We didn't do anything wrong or anything that violated guidelines etc.... we play the game the way it stimulates us the most like everybody else does but because we're the minority, we're hated for the way we play.

 

I don't think it is because you are in the minority that you have trouble with other cachers. :blink: :blink:

What does that mean?

 

It means that you might find it helpful to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

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I would suggest going to some events. I know you don't want to, but I think you should if you want to get over this. There's no substitute for face-to-face communication. So many misunderstandings can occur over the internet. If you show your face and let them see how sad you are about your caches getting stolen, I think the word may get around that you're not such a bad person. The person responsible may feel guilty and the theft may stop. At the very least, you'll get some sympathy and feel a greater connection with your community. Also, maybe if you meet these people face to face and learn a bit more about them, you won't feel the need to be so competitive.

Edited by The_Incredibles_
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We are very competetive and wish geocaching in our area was more competetive but because it's not, I guess you could say that we try our best to make the game more competetive in our area. For example; we hit the trails at 4am 2 weeks ago and nabbed 40 FTFs on caches placed for a local event. We hit the trails at 4am, hiked 5.5 miles in the dark, in the rain and got 40 FTFs. We didn't do anything wrong or anything that violated guidelines etc.... we play the game the way it stimulates us the most like everybody else does but because we're the minority, we're hated for the way we play.

 

I don't think it is because you are in the minority that you have trouble with other cachers. :blink: :blink:

What does that mean?

 

It means that you might find it helpful to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

 

There are zero excuses for stealing caches, despite what they may have or have not done. Frankly, I don't like the "blame the victim" mentality which is being implied here and only encourages others. Stealing the property of others is always wrong, and should not be tolerated at all.

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We are very competetive and wish geocaching in our area was more competetive but because it's not, I guess you could say that we try our best to make the game more competetive in our area. For example; we hit the trails at 4am 2 weeks ago and nabbed 40 FTFs on caches placed for a local event. We hit the trails at 4am, hiked 5.5 miles in the dark, in the rain and got 40 FTFs. We didn't do anything wrong or anything that violated guidelines etc.... we play the game the way it stimulates us the most like everybody else does but because we're the minority, we're hated for the way we play.

 

I don't think it is because you are in the minority that you have trouble with other cachers. :blink: :blink:

What does that mean?

 

It means that you might find it helpful to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

 

This.

You admittedly don't want to be a part of the group, yet you seem to intentionally do things that upsets them. Nothing you do will ever give them the right to go out and steel your caches. If this is happening, then their reaction to you is wrong, plane and simple.

 

You claim that you have absolutely no part in this, but the fact is, they are reacting, (wrongly), to your actions. Perhaps if you were not constantly in their face and just flew under the RADAR for a bit, they might lose interest. You asked for advice and the best advice I can think of is to stop provoking the situation.

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We are very competetive and wish geocaching in our area was more competetive but because it's not, I guess you could say that we try our best to make the game more competetive in our area. For example; we hit the trails at 4am 2 weeks ago and nabbed 40 FTFs on caches placed for a local event. We hit the trails at 4am, hiked 5.5 miles in the dark, in the rain and got 40 FTFs. We didn't do anything wrong or anything that violated guidelines etc.... we play the game the way it stimulates us the most like everybody else does but because we're the minority, we're hated for the way we play.

 

I don't think it is because you are in the minority that you have trouble with other cachers. :blink: :blink:

What does that mean?

 

It means that you might find it helpful to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

 

There are zero excuses for stealing caches, despite what they may have or have not done. Frankly, I don't like the "blame the victim" mentality which is being implied here and only encourages others. Stealing the property of others is always wrong, and should not be tolerated at all.

 

I totally agree, and I hope that my previous posts don't come off as that. I just know that if this was happening to me, I would find a way to distance myself from the situation instead of provoking it. If that means waiting a bit before I hide more caches and simply writing, "Thanks, I enjoyed your cache" on my found logs, then I would do just that.

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The comments that you left at the bottom of the description of GC1GHG5 would be likely fodder to start a caching war.

 

You do not get to force people to claim DNFs by threatening to "out" them.

 

Then read the archive note on GC1G1F8.

 

Cachers will help out other cachers find a cache. If someone signs the log, they found it and you should worry less about how they found it.

 

You seem like you bring wrath upon yourself.

 

Your caches shouldn't be stolen but ...

 

Edited by fbingha
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Okay, to be clear, these people's reations to you is not appropriate. It is never okay to steal caches. But you basically list a cache and in the description, you call these people sneaky, snaky, lairs and cheats. And then claim that you are being persecuted/harassed over nothing.

 

I think that if you are going to stop this war, you better start thinking about stopping the active battle first. I know that that was 2008. From your FTF logs the other day it does not appear that you are doing anything to try to end this.

Edited by Don_J
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The comments that you left at the bottom of the description of GC1GHG5 would be likely fodder to start a caching war.

 

You do not get to force people to claim DNFs by threatening to "out" them.

 

Then read the archive note on GC1G1F8.

 

Cachers will help out other cachers find a cache. If someone signs the log, they found it and you should worry less about how they found it.

 

You seem like you bring wrath upon yourself.

 

Your caches shouldn't be stolen but ...

After reading the last paragraph in the description and the hint on this cache GC1G1F8, I'd be putting a lot of caches on my ignore list

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27 ftf's on 1 rainy morning of a caching event at 4am is intensely competitive! Since it was an event, a more logical setup would have been for an arranged publication time, say 8am. Any group can have an "overachiever," & right or wrong, the fact that no one else got to sign a blank log on event day may have left the party-goers sour. The event organizer & local reviewer could have eliminated the risk with a better plan.

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Yes, I read the archive log & it was hostile. It furthered the battle. It's okay to get help after a dnf. Proper etiquette is to log dnf & then to make the find & acknowledge the help you needed & received. However, berating those who tried out a cache you placed accomplishes nothing good.

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Yes, I read the archive log & it was hostile. It furthered the battle. It's okay to get help after a dnf. Proper etiquette is to log dnf & then to make the find & acknowledge the help you needed & received. However, berating those who tried out a cache you placed accomplishes nothing good.

What everyone here doesn't realize is, this stuff has been going on for almost 6 years. I don't see why we should change the way we've cached from day 1 because people who are bad sports, don't like it that we beat them to caches or find the hard ones they can't or because we decided to personally challenge ourselves and go out caching in the middle of the night. The 27 FTFs we got on that trail at 4 in the morning, in the rain, WERE NOT EASY! Trust me, we earned every one of them and we're proud of our accomplishment.

 

Again, 61 caches were published 2 DAYS BEFORE the event and every single cacher in our area knew the caches were going to be published 2 days before the event when the event cache was published. It stated this fact right there on the cache page. We all had the same opportunity. We weren't given the coords in secret. Everyone got them at the same time but because we took the initiative and set our alarm for 3am to go out and do something epic, we need to 'back down' and take a break and give others a chance because if we do this they might steal more of our caches? We all had the same opportunity. We took it! No one else did. I'm sorry but I don't get how that's bad or negative? Life is ALL ABOUT CHALLENGING YOURSELF and becoming the best you can be wether it's in your job or as a member of your family or in your hobby. WHAT is wrong with wanting to be the best?

 

So what you're all saying is we should become less competetive to make other cachers like us and not steal our caches and rip our sig off loghsheets? All of this stuff is our fault? Really? Don't you think the best advice should be given to the ones who steal our stuff and tell them that if they hate us because we're competetive then how about becoming competetive yourself and when you feel that great feeling of doing somthing awesome, totally out of the ordinary, then maybe you'll understand why we do it! Raise the bar for yourself. Get out of the same ol' stagnant caching rut and DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT! The moring we scored those 40 FTFs was one of THE BEST TIMES we ever had in 6 years of caching and we are still talking about it. We aren't still talking about it because we got 40 FTFs. We're still talking about it because the challenge was a rush and at the end, when we were soaked and covered with mud but had hiked 5.5 miles in the dark with 6" of mud on our shoes and found 27 caches with flashlights, we were really excited and really happy. It was unlike anything we'd ever done before and if I'm gonna be perfectly honest, I will say that both of us hope we get to do the same thing again sometime. When you do something awesome like that and feel that sense of accomplishment and excitement, there's nothing like it!

 

We've been competetive from day 1 and that's not going to change and as long as being competetive isn't breaking any rules or violating any guidelines.

 

We aren't the bad guys here. We might not go to events or cache in groups but that DOES NOT make us bad and that does not give others the right to steal our caches or tear our signature off loghsheets. For me to comprehend other cachers stealing our caches is very difficult and when 1 of them also tears our FTF sig off his logsheets, that's even more unbelievable. We don't play that way and we will NEVER stoop to those levels. We will keep playing the game the way we always have, fair and with integrity.

 

For someone to say we should change our user name or take a break from the game because we have haters that steal our caches and tear our name off logsheets is ridiculous. Maybe it's those cachers who are stealing our caches that need to 'take a break.' KEEP IN MIND who's doing what here! It seems like we're actually taking the blame for the thieves. It's our fault they steal? It's our fault they hate? TeamSeek aren't stealing other people's caches and TeamSeek isn't tearing other cacher's signatures off logsheets! TeamSeek doesn't pout when we realize we've been beat to a cache and then just log that we were FTF anyway because we're so mad. There are a few in our area who get SO MAD, they log that they're FTF even though they weren't and do you know what we do? Nothing. We log our FTF and ignore it all.

 

Another thing that happens a lot is we often find the hard ones that no one else can find. Many times our signature will be the only signature on a log for weeks or even months. Again, we love the challenge of the 5 star hide. It's one of our favorite things. We'll drive 100 miles for a crack at a FTF on an elusive hide no one else can find and we'll spend an entire day looking for it until we find it. So what! What's wrong with that? A new cache will accumulate a long string of DNFs and then we find it and no matter how nice our log is or complimentary to the CO, it induces incredible hostility amongst the cachers who couldn't find. One of the last times this happened, a group of 4 cachers posted in their logs (when they eventually found the cache), that we destroyed the terrain!! We have NEVER destroyed any terrain or anything in nature, EVER, but the logs were posted pointing the finger at us saying we did this and we did that and NONE of it was true! The logs were downright mean and very hostile and you just know that these folks are mad because we found the cache and they couldn't. My question is, how could anybody possibly know who does what at a cache site? Who broke a branch or who stomped a plant or moved some rocks? Blaming us for doing things we didn't do is wrong.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is, we just want these cachers to stop stealing our caches and tearing our name off loghsheets and maybe stop saying mean things about us in their logs. That's all. If somebody doesn't wanna like us, that's ok. Alotta people don't like alotta people, that's the way the world is and that's the way geocaching is. Not liking someone doesn't give you the right to steal from them or tell lies about them or spread ugly rumors about them. Just go on your way and ignore them. That's what we have learned to do. Ignore it all. We used to fight back but that only got us in trouble so we had to learn how to ignore it all and just do our own thing...enjoy the game the way we like to enjoy it same as everyone else gets the freedom to enjoy it their way. Having 71 our caches stolen however is impoossible to ignore and that's why we came here. I hope the onese stealing our caches read this and just stop. PLEASE!!

 

edit - i forgot to add this thought....the coordinates to 20 other new caches were given out at the 3rd event that night. ONLY THE EVENT ATTENDEES got the coords to these 20 caches. The caches weren't published for the rest of the GC community to see until the next day. Were we mad about it? Not all all. Who cares! We thought it was great that they got 20 to hunt that night. Good for them. My point is, if we don't care about that, why should they care about what we did the day before? Does that make sense? It's the same thing. Who cares. Also, if someone has to go back all the way to 2008 to see something we may have done or said that wasn't right, then that just proves that we have come a long way. THAT was 2008. THIS is 2013. We made mistakes, most while defending ourselves or our cache site. No one knows the 'back story' to anything. Everyone only knows what the hateful people want you to know and 'him/them' taking you back to show you a log we posted 4 years ago, makes me laugh. I could post GC codes to a few hundred cache pages where you would find nasty, hostile logs posted with mean comments about us but that's not what we came here for. We have grown by leaps and bounds since our GC beginnings in 2007. Did we make mistakes? You bet. Do we still make the same mistakes. Nope. We've learned, grown and moved on. Believe me, we paid for our mistakes. That's all in the past. People who hate often live in the past. Sure wish they would learn how to move on too. We are moving forward from here. I hope our post will put a stop to the cache stealing. Have fun and be the best you can be! that's all.

Edited by TeamSeekAndWeShallFind
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Should we archive our 'Under the Lamppost's Skirt' caches #42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49 and 50...

Yes please.

The world has enough uninspired urban micros with copy/paste cache names.

 

We don't know what the answer is which is why we came here, to the Groundspeak forums, for advice.

And yet, you refuse to take any of the advice that was offered.

Kinda makes me think there was another reason you started this.

 

I don't see why we should change

Solution, meet Problem...

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Should we archive our 'Under the Lamppost's Skirt' caches #42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49 and 50...

Yes please.

The world has enough uninspired urban micros with copy/paste cache names.

 

We don't know what the answer is which is why we came here, to the Groundspeak forums, for advice.

And yet, you refuse to take any of the advice that was offered.

Kinda makes me think there was another reason you started this.

 

I don't see why we should change

Solution, meet Problem...

Our 'Under the Lamppost's Skirt' series was VERY INSPIRED! It was inspired by our GC friend Lynn. Lynn suffers from MS Muscular Dystrophy. Before we met her we had no idea how many handicapped Geocachers there were around the world. We thought LPCs and PNGs were a waste of time and had no place in the game. BOY WERE WE WRONG!! Before we placed our LPC series we were ONLY about the evil 5 star hide. We owe it all to Lynn for showing us how very important those easy caches are too, for cachers who physically cannot do anything more difficult than a PNG or and LPC. So, the next time you think LPC/PNGs don't have their place in the game, think again because they do!

 

As for not taking any of the offered advice, if it was good advice, we would, but it wasn't. Telling us to change our user name or take time off from the game or that we should back off and be less competetive and not play the game the way we enjoy, is not good advice. A few people did give good advice in suggesting that we might attend an event or two. That is something we are considering for the near future. THAT was good advice. The rest was pretty much telling us to be 'lesser forms of ourselves to please others' and that's not going to happen. Sorry.

Edited by TeamSeekAndWeShallFind
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There seems to be a passive-aggressive pattern with your posts here in the forums.

 

You bring up actions of other geocachers that you disagree with, and expect other geocachers to validate your opinion or position. When you see anything other than that, you get defensive, or in some cases actually go on the offensive after the other posters, and refuse to recognize that you might be in the wrong, even partially.

 

Just a few examples:

 

Is There Cheating When it Comes to Hunting a Difficult Cache

 

What? Wait a Minute? Did I See that Right ? It Can't Be !

 

Is there cheating in geocaching ?

 

FTF after PAF/TAF to CO... is it fair ?

 

"Not FTF. More Later." have you seen this ?

 

Has this ever happened to you ?

 

It seems like you may have a problem with your caching commnunity, yes. It also seems like you share responsibility for creating this situation. But from all indications, you will likely not be able to see how your actions have contributed to the situation.

Edited by hzoi
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Our 'Under the Lamppost's Skirt' series was VERY INSPIRED! It was inspired by our GC friend Lynn. Lynn suffers from MS Muscular Dystrophy. Before we met her we had no idea how many handicapped Geocachers there were around the world. We thought LPCs and PNGs were a waste of time and had no place in the game. BOY WERE WE WRONG!! Before we placed our LPC series we were ONLY about the evil 5 star hide. We owe it all to Lynn for showing us how very important those easy caches are too, for cachers who physically cannot do anything more difficult than a PNG or and LPC. So, the next time you think LPC/PNGs don't have their place in the game, think again because they do!

 

This is inspiring:

 

french-geocaching-3.jpg?w=1000&h=

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There seems to be a passive-aggressive pattern with your posts here in the forums.

 

You bring up actions of other geocachers that you disagree with, and expect other geocachers to validate your opinion or position. When you see anything other than that, you get defensive, or in some cases actually go on the offensive after the other posters, and refuse to recognize that you might be in the wrong, even partially.

 

Just a few examples:

 

Is There Cheating When it Comes to Hunting a Difficult Cache

 

What? Wait a Minute? Did I See that Right ? It Can't Be !

 

Is there cheating in geocaching ?

 

FTF after PAF/TAF to CO... is it fair ?

 

"Not FTF. More Later." have you seen this ?

 

Has this ever happened to you ?

 

It seems like you may have a problem with your caching commnunity, yes. It also seems like you share responsibility for creating this situation. But from all indications, you will likely not be able to see how your actions have contributed to the situation.

That IS an inspiring photo! Thanks for sharing that!

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Yes, I read the archive log & it was hostile. It furthered the battle. It's okay to get help after a dnf. Proper etiquette is to log dnf & then to make the find & acknowledge the help you needed & received. However, berating those who tried out a cache you placed accomplishes nothing good.

What everyone here doesn't realize is, this stuff has been going on for almost 6 years. I don't see why we should change the way we've cached from day 1 because people who are bad sports, don't like it that we beat them to caches or find the hard ones they can't or because we decided to personally challenge ourselves and go out caching in the middle of the night. The 27 FTFs we got on that trail at 4 in the morning, in the rain, WERE NOT EASY! Trust me, we earned every one of them and we're proud of our accomplishment.

 

Again, 61 caches were published 2 DAYS BEFORE the event and every single cacher in our area knew the caches were going to be published 2 days before the event when the event cache was published. It stated this fact right there on the cache page. We all had the same opportunity. We weren't given the coords in secret. Everyone got them at the same time but because we took the initiative and set our alarm for 3am to go out and do something epic, we need to 'back down' and take a break and give others a chance because if we do this they might steal more of our caches? We all had the same opportunity. We took it! No one else did. I'm sorry but I don't get how that's bad or negative? Life is ALL ABOUT CHALLENGING YOURSELF and becoming the best you can be wether it's in your job or as a member of your family or in your hobby. WHAT is wrong with wanting to be the best?

 

So what you're all saying is we should become less competetive to make other cachers like us and not steal our caches and rip our sig off loghsheets? All of this stuff is our fault? Really? Don't you think the best advice should be given to the ones who steal our stuff and tell them that if they hate us because we're competetive then how about becoming competetive yourself and when you feel that great feeling of doing somthing awesome, totally out of the ordinary, then maybe you'll understand why we do it! Raise the bar for yourself. Get out of the same ol' stagnant caching rut and DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT! The moring we scored those 40 FTFs was one of THE BEST TIMES we ever had in 6 years of caching and we are still talking about it. We aren't still talking about it because we got 40 FTFs. We're still talking about it because the challenge was a rush and at the end, when we were soaked and covered with mud but had hiked 5.5 miles in the dark with 6" of mud on our shoes and found 27 caches with flashlights, we were really excited and really happy. It was unlike anything we'd ever done before and if I'm gonna be perfectly honest, I will say that both of us hope we get to do the same thing again sometime. When you do something awesome like that and feel that sense of accomplishment and excitement, there's nothing like it!

 

We've been competetive from day 1 and that's not going to change and as long as being competetive isn't breaking any rules or violating any guidelines.

 

We aren't the bad guys here. We might not go to events or cache in groups but that DOES NOT make us bad and that does not give others the right to steal our caches or tear our signature off loghsheets. For me to comprehend other cachers stealing our caches is very difficult and when 1 of them also tears our FTF sig off his logsheets, that's even more unbelievable. We don't play that way and we will NEVER stoop to those levels. We will keep playing the game the way we always have, fair and with integrity.

 

For someone to say we should change our user name or take a break from the game because we have haters that steal our caches and tear our name off logsheets is ridiculous. Maybe it's those cachers who are stealing our caches that need to 'take a break.' KEEP IN MIND who's doing what here! It seems like we're actually taking the blame for the thieves. It's our fault they steal? It's our fault they hate? TeamSeek aren't stealing other people's caches and TeamSeek isn't tearing other cacher's signatures off logsheets! TeamSeek doesn't pout when we realize we've been beat to a cache and then just log that we were FTF anyway because we're so mad. There are a few in our area who get SO MAD, they log that they're FTF even though they weren't and do you know what we do? Nothing. We log our FTF and ignore it all.

 

Another thing that happens a lot is we often find the hard ones that no one else can find. Many times our signature will be the only signature on a log for weeks or even months. Again, we love the challenge of the 5 star hide. It's one of our favorite things. We'll drive 100 miles for a crack at a FTF on an elusive hide no one else can find and we'll spend an entire day looking for it until we find it. So what! What's wrong with that? A new cache will accumulate a long string of DNFs and then we find it and no matter how nice our log is or complimentary to the CO, it induces incredible hostility amongst the cachers who couldn't find. One of the last times this happened, a group of 4 cachers posted in their logs (when they eventually found the cache), that we destroyed the terrain!! We have NEVER destroyed any terrain or anything in nature, EVER, but the logs were posted pointing the finger at us saying we did this and we did that and NONE of it was true! The logs were downright mean and very hostile and you just know that these folks are mad because we found the cache and they couldn't. My question is, how could anybody possibly know who does what at a cache site? Who broke a branch or who stomped a plant or moved some rocks? Blaming us for doing things we didn't do is wrong.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is, we just want these cachers to stop stealing our caches and tearing our name off loghsheets and maybe stop saying mean things about us in their logs. That's all. If somebody doesn't wanna like us, that's ok. Alotta people don't like alotta people, that's the way the world is and that's the way geocaching is. Not liking someone doesn't give you the right to steal from them or tell lies about them or spread ugly rumors about them. Just go on your way and ignore them. That's what we have learned to do. Ignore it all. We used to fight back but that only got us in trouble so we had to learn how to ignore it all and just do our own thing...enjoy the game the way we like to enjoy it same as everyone else gets the freedom to enjoy it their way. Having 71 our caches stolen however is impoossible to ignore and that's why we came here. I hope the onese stealing our caches read this and just stop. PLEASE!!

 

edit - i forgot to add this thought....the coordinates to 20 other new caches were given out at the 3rd event that night. ONLY THE EVENT ATTENDEES got the coords to these 20 caches. The caches weren't published for the rest of the GC community to see until the next day. Were we mad about it? Not all all. Who cares! We thought it was great that they got 20 to hunt that night. Good for them. My point is, if we don't care about that, why should they care about what we did the day before? Does that make sense? It's the same thing. Who cares. Also, if someone has to go back all the way to 2008 to see something we may have done or said that wasn't right, then that just proves that we have come a long way. THAT was 2008. THIS is 2013. We made mistakes, most while defending ourselves or our cache site. No one knows the 'back story' to anything. Everyone only knows what the hateful people want you to know and 'him/them' taking you back to show you a log we posted 4 years ago, makes me laugh. I could post GC codes to a few hundred cache pages where you would find nasty, hostile logs posted with mean comments about us but that's not what we came here for. We have grown by leaps and bounds since our GC beginnings in 2007. Did we make mistakes? You bet. Do we still make the same mistakes. Nope. We've learned, grown and moved on. Believe me, we paid for our mistakes. That's all in the past. People who hate often live in the past. Sure wish they would learn how to move on too. We are moving forward from here. I hope our post will put a stop to the cache stealing. Have fun and be the best you can be! that's all.

 

tl&dr, but I caught the fine points.

 

Your competitive, great! Why do you feel the need to spike the football in your so called opponents faces, especially when they may not even be playing the same game as you?

 

Why do have an obsessive need to use your cache descriptions and logs on your caches as a venue to express criticism to those around you?

 

Why do you use your cache descriptions and logs on your caches to express your belief that you are better than all of the other cachers around you and that your caches are so special that generally accepted rules for finding and logging them shouldn't apply?

 

Personally, I think that you could have ended this long ago if you just addressed those issues. I'm curious, how many Found It logs have you deleted off of your caches?

 

Quite frankly, you are probably lucky that you have those other cachers around you that ARE behaving badly by stealing your caches. If you lived in my area, everyone that matters would simply put your caches on ignore and never look for them. We would never have spent years giving you the attention that you apparently crave.

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Yes, I read the archive log & it was hostile. It furthered the battle. It's okay to get help after a dnf. Proper etiquette is to log dnf & then to make the find & acknowledge the help you needed & received. However, berating those who tried out a cache you placed accomplishes nothing good.

What everyone here doesn't realize is, this stuff has been going on for almost 6 years. I don't see why we should change the way we've cached from day 1 because people who are bad sports, don't like it that we beat them to caches or find the hard ones they can't or because we decided to personally challenge ourselves and go out caching in the middle of the night. The 27 FTFs we got on that trail at 4 in the morning, in the rain, WERE NOT EASY! Trust me, we earned every one of them and we're proud of our accomplishment.

 

Again, 61 caches were published 2 DAYS BEFORE the event and every single cacher in our area knew the caches were going to be published 2 days before the event when the event cache was published. It stated this fact right there on the cache page. We all had the same opportunity. We weren't given the coords in secret. Everyone got them at the same time but because we took the initiative and set our alarm for 3am to go out and do something epic, we need to 'back down' and take a break and give others a chance because if we do this they might steal more of our caches? We all had the same opportunity. We took it! No one else did. I'm sorry but I don't get how that's bad or negative? Life is ALL ABOUT CHALLENGING YOURSELF and becoming the best you can be wether it's in your job or as a member of your family or in your hobby. WHAT is wrong with wanting to be the best?

 

So what you're all saying is we should become less competetive to make other cachers like us and not steal our caches and rip our sig off loghsheets? All of this stuff is our fault? Really? Don't you think the best advice should be given to the ones who steal our stuff and tell them that if they hate us because we're competetive then how about becoming competetive yourself and when you feel that great feeling of doing somthing awesome, totally out of the ordinary, then maybe you'll understand why we do it! Raise the bar for yourself. Get out of the same ol' stagnant caching rut and DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT! The moring we scored those 40 FTFs was one of THE BEST TIMES we ever had in 6 years of caching and we are still talking about it. We aren't still talking about it because we got 40 FTFs. We're still talking about it because the challenge was a rush and at the end, when we were soaked and covered with mud but had hiked 5.5 miles in the dark with 6" of mud on our shoes and found 27 caches with flashlights, we were really excited and really happy. It was unlike anything we'd ever done before and if I'm gonna be perfectly honest, I will say that both of us hope we get to do the same thing again sometime. When you do something awesome like that and feel that sense of accomplishment and excitement, there's nothing like it!

 

We've been competetive from day 1 and that's not going to change and as long as being competetive isn't breaking any rules or violating any guidelines.

 

We aren't the bad guys here. We might not go to events or cache in groups but that DOES NOT make us bad and that does not give others the right to steal our caches or tear our signature off loghsheets. For me to comprehend other cachers stealing our caches is very difficult and when 1 of them also tears our FTF sig off his logsheets, that's even more unbelievable. We don't play that way and we will NEVER stoop to those levels. We will keep playing the game the way we always have, fair and with integrity.

 

For someone to say we should change our user name or take a break from the game because we have haters that steal our caches and tear our name off logsheets is ridiculous. Maybe it's those cachers who are stealing our caches that need to 'take a break.' KEEP IN MIND who's doing what here! It seems like we're actually taking the blame for the thieves. It's our fault they steal? It's our fault they hate? TeamSeek aren't stealing other people's caches and TeamSeek isn't tearing other cacher's signatures off logsheets! TeamSeek doesn't pout when we realize we've been beat to a cache and then just log that we were FTF anyway because we're so mad. There are a few in our area who get SO MAD, they log that they're FTF even though they weren't and do you know what we do? Nothing. We log our FTF and ignore it all.

 

Another thing that happens a lot is we often find the hard ones that no one else can find. Many times our signature will be the only signature on a log for weeks or even months. Again, we love the challenge of the 5 star hide. It's one of our favorite things. We'll drive 100 miles for a crack at a FTF on an elusive hide no one else can find and we'll spend an entire day looking for it until we find it. So what! What's wrong with that? A new cache will accumulate a long string of DNFs and then we find it and no matter how nice our log is or complimentary to the CO, it induces incredible hostility amongst the cachers who couldn't find. One of the last times this happened, a group of 4 cachers posted in their logs (when they eventually found the cache), that we destroyed the terrain!! We have NEVER destroyed any terrain or anything in nature, EVER, but the logs were posted pointing the finger at us saying we did this and we did that and NONE of it was true! The logs were downright mean and very hostile and you just know that these folks are mad because we found the cache and they couldn't. My question is, how could anybody possibly know who does what at a cache site? Who broke a branch or who stomped a plant or moved some rocks? Blaming us for doing things we didn't do is wrong.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is, we just want these cachers to stop stealing our caches and tearing our name off loghsheets and maybe stop saying mean things about us in their logs. That's all. If somebody doesn't wanna like us, that's ok. Alotta people don't like alotta people, that's the way the world is and that's the way geocaching is. Not liking someone doesn't give you the right to steal from them or tell lies about them or spread ugly rumors about them. Just go on your way and ignore them. That's what we have learned to do. Ignore it all. We used to fight back but that only got us in trouble so we had to learn how to ignore it all and just do our own thing...enjoy the game the way we like to enjoy it same as everyone else gets the freedom to enjoy it their way. Having 71 our caches stolen however is impoossible to ignore and that's why we came here. I hope the onese stealing our caches read this and just stop. PLEASE!!

 

edit - i forgot to add this thought....the coordinates to 20 other new caches were given out at the 3rd event that night. ONLY THE EVENT ATTENDEES got the coords to these 20 caches. The caches weren't published for the rest of the GC community to see until the next day. Were we mad about it? Not all all. Who cares! We thought it was great that they got 20 to hunt that night. Good for them. My point is, if we don't care about that, why should they care about what we did the day before? Does that make sense? It's the same thing. Who cares. Also, if someone has to go back all the way to 2008 to see something we may have done or said that wasn't right, then that just proves that we have come a long way. THAT was 2008. THIS is 2013. We made mistakes, most while defending ourselves or our cache site. No one knows the 'back story' to anything. Everyone only knows what the hateful people want you to know and 'him/them' taking you back to show you a log we posted 4 years ago, makes me laugh. I could post GC codes to a few hundred cache pages where you would find nasty, hostile logs posted with mean comments about us but that's not what we came here for. We have grown by leaps and bounds since our GC beginnings in 2007. Did we make mistakes? You bet. Do we still make the same mistakes. Nope. We've learned, grown and moved on. Believe me, we paid for our mistakes. That's all in the past. People who hate often live in the past. Sure wish they would learn how to move on too. We are moving forward from here. I hope our post will put a stop to the cache stealing. Have fun and be the best you can be! that's all.

 

Please could Groundspeak pin this post under the "WHEN GEOCACHING GOES BAD" section as a lesson to us all.

I had to smile when I studied your logs on your victorious triumph of ftfs at 4am because other than one guy who stopped on his way to work I don' t think anybody else went for them the day you logged them so you could have set your alarm clock for the crack of noon and still got the FTF.

You are obviously champion cachers and I bow to your skill and resilience against such incredible challenges as ' muddy' and ' raining'. The great pioneers and explorers of this world will be quaking in their boots at the hardship you must have overcome. I'm afraid I would probably have been in the happy breakfast brigade that seemed to enjoy the caches just as much a few days later.

I will never condone the stealing of caches but you have to see the affect you are having on other cachers in your community. Please, please communicate with them and try and find a resolution before something more sinister occurs.

Edited by Legochugglers
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Our 'Under the Lamppost's Skirt' series was VERY INSPIRED! It was inspired by our GC friend Lynn. Lynn suffers from MS Muscular Dystrophy. Before we met her we had no idea how many handicapped Geocachers there were around the world. We thought LPCs and PNGs were a waste of time and had no place in the game. BOY WERE WE WRONG!! Before we placed our LPC series we were ONLY about the evil 5 star hide. We owe it all to Lynn for showing us how very important those easy caches are too, for cachers who physically cannot do anything more difficult than a PNG or and LPC. So, the next time you think LPC/PNGs don't have their place in the game, think again because they do!

 

I think you are confusing lame with simple to locate. Just because a cache is simple to locate does not mean it has to be lame. You are dooming our wheelchair bound brethren to the dregs of geocaching, all because you are unwilling to spend a tad more time trying to figure out how to make a cache both easy to access and interesting.

 

One hint? Don't copy/paste.

 

Those of us who are less mobile than the average bear do not deserve to be stuck with the same crappy cache, repeated ad nauseum.

 

As for not taking any of the offered advice, if it was good advice, we would

I think it was Gandhi who suggested words to the effect of, "Be the change you want to see". Obviously, you are unwilling to change. Since you are half of the equation, and you are unable to change the behaviors of others who are reacting poorly to perceived slights, you must change yourself, or continue to rant & rave about how life is so unfair.

 

Your call.

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Our 'Under the Lamppost's Skirt' series was VERY INSPIRED! It was inspired by our GC friend Lynn. Lynn suffers from MS Muscular Dystrophy. Before we met her we had no idea how many handicapped Geocachers there were around the world. We thought LPCs and PNGs were a waste of time and had no place in the game. BOY WERE WE WRONG!! Before we placed our LPC series we were ONLY about the evil 5 star hide. We owe it all to Lynn for showing us how very important those easy caches are too, for cachers who physically cannot do anything more difficult than a PNG or and LPC. So, the next time you think LPC/PNGs don't have their place in the game, think again because they do!

 

I think you are confusing lame with simple to locate. Just because a cache is simple to locate does not mean it has to be lame. You are dooming our wheelchair bound brethren to the dregs of geocaching, all because you are unwilling to spend a tad more time trying to figure out how to make a cache both easy to access and interesting.

 

One hint? Don't copy/paste.

 

Those of us who are less mobile than the average bear do not deserve to be stuck with the same crappy cache, repeated ad nauseum.

 

As for not taking any of the offered advice, if it was good advice, we would

I think it was Gandhi who suggested words to the effect of, "Be the change you want to see". Obviously, you are unwilling to change. Since you are half of the equation, and you are unable to change the behaviors of others who are reacting poorly to perceived slights, you must change yourself, or continue to rant & rave about how life is so unfair.

 

Your call.

Yup. Bad things can happen to bad people. But those bad things that happened to those bad people are still bad, and not fun to deal with.

 

Seems to me that the key is realizing the part you play in the game, and recognizing how your behavior might affect others. This goes along nicely with the post I put in the FTF Beefs thread. Same type of behavior being shown by TSAWSF that, thankfully, only upset me--I didn't resort to cache stealing or other completely inappropriate behavior, but I was VERY glad to move out of that community and away from the person who claimed the higher ground while acting like their behavior wasn't an issue.

Edited by NeverSummer
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Seriously you can't see that you're the reason for it? Lets change some parts and see if you think this is reasonable.

 

Lets change ftf to birthday cake.

Event to party

Other cachers to neighbour

 

You neighbour is having a birthday party but the birthday cake has turned up early. Instead of waiting for the party to start you eat the cake because its their fault it turned up early.

 

I'm pretty sure your neighbour would be angry with you. After all you ruined their party.

 

Do you think that would be acceptable?

 

If you do then I see why they do it and they won't change until you do.

 

Be nice to one another, talk to people how you wish to be talked to.

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the attention that you apparently crave.

 

That was pretty much what I'm getting out of this (and other) post(s) by the OP.

 

1. Do stuff to get attention.

 

2. Attention received is not as desired.

 

3. Do more of the same stuff, more intensely.

 

4. Berate others for not comprehending your motives.

 

5. Still not getting the desired response, and in fact being subtly attacked.

 

6. Continue doing even more stuff that has proven to grate on the nerves of the locals...subtle attacks become less subtle.

 

7. Come to the forums looking for sympathy, but refuse to acknowledge the logic in the responses.

 

"When you point at someone else, there are three fingers pointing back at YOU"

 

See the first line of my signature quotes below.

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It is rather sad to see the way society has grown up since the early days of life .I long for the days of old when you did not have to lock your door and your neighbour was a true friend .

As a Canadian looking in on America ,we up hear have a different view of the world than you guys .The problem is the "winner -looser attitude " ,Bruce Springsteen songs have it .

The Team seek couple have this desire to be number 1 in geocaching and the passion for winning has driven them to go to lengths that most people would never do .

That is okay as long as they play by the rules ,which they seem to do .The problem is when you "rub it in another persons face all the time " ,some people are going to do things like stealing your caches because they hate being a "looser " to you .

My advice too you is try being a more classy person .What I mean is watch pro Tennis when one person beats the other they are very humble and always "say how tough there opponent was " ,they just have so much class.

As for the people stealing ,I would look into a trail cam or some sort of tracking device ,after all you do need evidence if you want to report these people .

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Dr. Phil likes to ask the question, Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? A right fighter will howl and yell and go to any extreme just to be right. They may very well be right too, but the cost of insisting they are right can be very great by creating division, unhappiness, physical abuse (in this case theft), etc.. Is it worth it? There is give and take in this game and sometimes you have to focus a little less on being right and do what will help create calm to restore your own happiness and peace of mind and, if possible, foster and mend friendships. You have been given some good advice here. Just tone it down a bit. It's hard to have an argument when only one side is arguing. It may not seem fair (right) but most people will tell you the way to handle spoilers in this game for the most part is to ignore them. Eventually the problem does go away.

 

"Be the change you want to see in others."

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Seriously you can't see that you're the reason for it? Lets change some parts and see if you think this is reasonable.

 

Lets change ftf to birthday cake.

Event to party

Other cachers to neighbour

 

You neighbour is having a birthday party but the birthday cake has turned up early. Instead of waiting for the party to start you eat the cake because its their fault it turned up early.

 

I'm pretty sure your neighbour would be angry with you. After all you ruined their party.

 

Do you think that would be acceptable?

 

If you do then I see why they do it and they won't change until you do.

 

Be nice to one another, talk to people how you wish to be talked to.

 

That's not really the same thing at all. Even if the caches were published early by mistake (and it doesn't sound like they were), they are fair game to be hunted. Once those caches hit the open market, anyone can find them. Why should cachers attending an event feel like they have exclusive rights to a FTF and worse, to feel slighted if someone decides to go out at 4 a.m. to find them all? A cacher should not feel compelled to sit out the race just because those caches *might* be (or are) placed for an event.

 

With a birthday cake, there is an unwritten agreement that it's there for everyone to share, even though some hog could swoop in, grab the entire cake and wolf it down in front of everyone. With a FTF race, you get the whole cake if you are fast enough.

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Seriously you can't see that you're the reason for it? Lets change some parts and see if you think this is reasonable.

 

Lets change ftf to birthday cake.

Event to party

Other cachers to neighbour

 

You neighbour is having a birthday party but the birthday cake has turned up early. Instead of waiting for the party to start you eat the cake because its their fault it turned up early.

 

I'm pretty sure your neighbour would be angry with you. After all you ruined their party.

 

Do you think that would be acceptable?

 

If you do then I see why they do it and they won't change until you do.

 

Be nice to one another, talk to people how you wish to be talked to.

 

That's not really the same thing at all. Even if the caches were published early by mistake (and it doesn't sound like they were), they are fair game to be hunted. Once those caches hit the open market, anyone can find them. Why should cachers attending an event feel like they have exclusive rights to a FTF and worse, to feel slighted if someone decides to go out at 4 a.m. to find them all? A cacher should not feel compelled to sit out the race just because those caches *might* be (or are) placed for an event.

 

 

I agree. It's the "Hey, look what I did, Ha!" attitude afterwards that I think riles people up. That and the fact that it has been going on for years.

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Seriously you can't see that you're the reason for it? Lets change some parts and see if you think this is reasonable.

 

Lets change ftf to birthday cake.

Event to party

Other cachers to neighbour

 

You neighbour is having a birthday party but the birthday cake has turned up early. Instead of waiting for the party to start you eat the cake because its their fault it turned up early.

 

I'm pretty sure your neighbour would be angry with you. After all you ruined their party.

 

Do you think that would be acceptable?

 

If you do then I see why they do it and they won't change until you do.

 

Be nice to one another, talk to people how you wish to be talked to.

 

That's not really the same thing at all. Even if the caches were published early by mistake (and it doesn't sound like they were), they are fair game to be hunted. Once those caches hit the open market, anyone can find them. Why should cachers attending an event feel like they have exclusive rights to a FTF and worse, to feel slighted if someone decides to go out at 4 a.m. to find them all? A cacher should not feel compelled to sit out the race just because those caches *might* be (or are) placed for an event.

 

 

I agree. It's the "Hey, look what I did, Ha!" attitude afterwards that I think riles people up. That and the fact that it has been going on for years.

 

I'm fully aware that if they're published before an event they're game but for the OP to make a point of going to every single one and claim ftf and then rub it in their faces. Isn't fair. People put a lot of effort into their events and caches for events. Those people get annoyed when they come to the event to find the caches have all been taken from them by people that are rude to them.

 

Also I know it's not exactly the same but I was trying to put across what others have said ina simpler way.

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This thread should be pinned. A textbook example of how this game can spin out of control. On one hand I find gloating over signing a blank log to be a little annoying - being the most compulsive hardly warrants extra smileys but the OP is not alone in doing that. Very few people will see the log and even fewer will care. And neither lamp post hides or evil hides particularly interest me. And then there are allusions to having been suspended. On the other hand I can't imagine going out of my way to steal a LPC (the ignore list works much better) or clip someone's name off a log. Whatever is going on, people are taking this game much too seriously.

 

The best advice was probably to try to work it out on a more personal level. The Op could go to an event or ask some local cachers to meet with them and the leading suspect. Take a hike together or sit down over coffee. You don't have to make accusations or seek any kind of emotional satisfaction. You don't have to agree to like each other. You should probably agree not to interrupt each other - sometimes letting a person talk only whike holding a sfick (or gpsr) helps keep things manageabke. Just acknowledge that there are problems and it is time for all concerned to step back and take a deep breath.

 

It is a game. And someone is not having fun here.

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Seriously you can't see that you're the reason for it? Lets change some parts and see if you think this is reasonable.

 

Lets change ftf to birthday cake.

Event to party

Other cachers to neighbour

 

You neighbour is having a birthday party but the birthday cake has turned up early. Instead of waiting for the party to start you eat the cake because its their fault it turned up early.

 

I'm pretty sure your neighbour would be angry with you. After all you ruined their party.

 

Do you think that would be acceptable?

 

If you do then I see why they do it and they won't change until you do.

 

Be nice to one another, talk to people how you wish to be talked to.

 

That's not really the same thing at all. Even if the caches were published early by mistake (and it doesn't sound like they were), they are fair game to be hunted. Once those caches hit the open market, anyone can find them. Why should cachers attending an event feel like they have exclusive rights to a FTF and worse, to feel slighted if someone decides to go out at 4 a.m. to find them all? A cacher should not feel compelled to sit out the race just because those caches *might* be (or are) placed for an event.

 

 

I agree. It's the "Hey, look what I did, Ha!" attitude afterwards that I think riles people up. That and the fact that it has been going on for years.

 

I agree that the caches are fair game as well. Not sure if and how much of the "rubbing in the face" is going on. If it is happening, then it is probably part of the problem. Still, stealing a person's caches only because they like to brag just doesn't hold up for me. I still think there are other things going on too and it would be helpful to hear from the other side.

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MMM, cake.

 

Carrot please. :lol: Wow, that birthday cake analogy was amazing. Props to you Sparklefingers.

 

I am in no way excusing OP but I thought the cake analogy was lame. Grabbing the FTF's was fine. It's everything that followed and the attitude prior that is suspect.

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I have ben following this very interesting thread for a few days and trying to wrap around it. I was struck by the notion of childishness versus childlike. Plenty of the former, little of the latter. But it reminded me of the great book of about 20 years back, All I really needed to know I learned in Kindergarten.

 

Pay attention to Number 2 and you will get along fine:

 

Share everything.

 

Play fair.

 

Don't hit people.

 

Put things back where you found them.

 

Clean up your own mess.

 

Don't take things that aren't yours.

 

Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.

 

Wash your hands before you eat.

 

Flush.

 

Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.

 

Live a balanced life - learn some and think some

and draw and paint and sing and dance and play

and work every day some.

 

Take a nap every afternoon.

 

When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic,

hold hands, and stick together.

 

Be aware of wonder.

Remember the little seed in the styrofoam cup:

The roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody

really knows how or why, but we are all like that.

 

Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even

the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die.

So do we.

 

And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books

and the first word you learned - the biggest

word of all - LOOK.

 

 

Everything you need to know is in there somewhere.

The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation.

Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.

 

Take any of those items and extrapolate it into

sophisticated adult terms and apply it to your

family life or your work or your government or

your world and it holds true and clear and firm.

Think what a better world it would be if

all - the whole world - had cookies and milk about

three o'clock every afternoon and then lay down with

our blankies for a nap. Or if all governments

had a basic policy to always put thing back where

they found them and to clean up their own mess.

 

And it is still true, no matter how old you

are - when you go out into the world, it is best

to hold hands and stick together.

 

 

© Robert Fulghum, 1990.

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I have ben following this very interesting thread for a few days and trying to wrap around it. I was struck by the notion of childishness versus childlike. Plenty of the former, little of the latter. But it reminded me of the great book of about 20 years back, All I really needed to know I learned in Kindergarten.

 

Pay attention to Number 2 and you will get along fine:

 

Share everything.

 

Play fair.

 

Don't hit people.

 

Put things back where you found them.

 

Clean up your own mess.

 

Don't take things that aren't yours.

 

Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.

 

Wash your hands before you eat.

 

Flush.

 

Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.

 

Live a balanced life - learn some and think some

and draw and paint and sing and dance and play

and work every day some.

 

Take a nap every afternoon.

 

When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic,

hold hands, and stick together.

 

Be aware of wonder.

Remember the little seed in the styrofoam cup:

The roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody

really knows how or why, but we are all like that.

 

Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even

the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die.

So do we.

 

And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books

and the first word you learned - the biggest

word of all - LOOK.

 

 

Everything you need to know is in there somewhere.

The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation.

Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.

 

Take any of those items and extrapolate it into

sophisticated adult terms and apply it to your

family life or your work or your government or

your world and it holds true and clear and firm.

Think what a better world it would be if

all - the whole world - had cookies and milk about

three o'clock every afternoon and then lay down with

our blankies for a nap. Or if all governments

had a basic policy to always put thing back where

they found them and to clean up their own mess.

 

And it is still true, no matter how old you

are - when you go out into the world, it is best

to hold hands and stick together.

 

 

© Robert Fulghum, 1990.

 

^YES

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We are about to archive 9 PMO caches in our LPC series. These 9 caches are just the latest in a rash of our caches that have been stolen by other PM cachers. Other cachers have come along and tried to help by going out of their way to replace the stolen caches only to have their replacements go missing a day later!

 

2 summers ago, when our LPC series had only 25 caches in it, ALL 25 WERE STOLEN in one afternoon in a 50 mile radius!

 

In the past year we have had 71 caches stolen including 14 ammo cans.

 

It's not even about the stolen caches or replacing the stolen caches, it's about dealing with the fact that other members are stealing our caches.

 

That's the painful part.

 

Replacing them is the easy part.

 

I guess what we're looking for by coming forward with this is advice from others on HOW can we best get over the hurt that we feel?

 

Sounds to me that possibly you have done something to make your fellow cachers upset with you, and this is why they are stealing your caches, as a payback if you will. I can't imagine that someone would target you in this way FOR NO REASON AT ALL. I think someone else had brought up this question but you avoided answering it.

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