Jump to content

Hiders not using attributes


dorqie

Recommended Posts

I hate it when people don't bother to add attributes to their caches. I cache in so many different circumstances (with my kids, on a bad epilepsy day, with my dog, on my bike etc) and it's just so helpful to get an idea of what to expect so I can decide if I am up for that cache that day.

Recently, I found a cache that required a field puzzle, but contained no attributes, so finders had no way of knowing that until they arrived at gz. (It also required a bushwack through poison ivy, a warning to wear appropriate clothes would have been nice)

The cache of course had been tampered with. Nobody mentioned this in their logs, many finders just logged a TFTC in spite of the lick being broken and the amo can being literally stuck open.

I was rather annoyed at this cache myself, but instead I just rescued the tb, and emailed the co to report the damage to the cache. I suggested that perhaps adding the "feild puzzle attribute" or changing the cache to a mystery would help avoid such destruction to his cache in the future.

Well, he didn't take kindly to this, and accused us of being the ones who defaced his amo can. :rolleyes:

 

Please guys, attributes are rarely spoilers, they really help us finders.

Link to comment

I hate it when people don't bother to add attributes to their caches.

Please guys, attributes are rarely spoilers, they really help us finders.

I raised this with the UK reviewers, who said that they ask the CO to add Attributes.

Do they ever add the Attributes...

I think the system shouldn't allow you to submit the cache without at least one Attribute.

 

Attributes are not spoilers?

Local cache is a film tub hidden in a hollowed out log.

Attributes listed include campfires-no.gif

 

Penny didn't drop until I was logging the find! :laughing:

Link to comment

I agree, I often cache with a toddler, or if I'm having a bad pain day it helps to narrow down what caches I can do. I really appreciate the attributes - would be nice if we could suggest them if they haven't been select, for the cache owner to approve.

Link to comment

I agree, I often cache with a toddler, or if I'm having a bad pain day it helps to narrow down what caches I can do. I really appreciate the attributes - would be nice if we could suggest them if they haven't been select, for the cache owner to approve.

 

That is a really good idea that I hadn't thought of. Maybe you should bring that up in the feedback section :)

Link to comment

I hate it when people don't bother to add attributes to their caches.

Please guys, attributes are rarely spoilers, they really help us finders.

I raised this with the UK reviewers, who said that they ask the CO to add Attributes.

Do they ever add the Attributes...

I think the system shouldn't allow you to submit the cache without at least one Attribute.

 

Attributes are not spoilers?

Local cache is a film tub hidden in a hollowed out log.

Attributes listed include campfires-no.gif

 

Penny didn't drop until I was logging the find! :laughing:

:laughing: That's really cute.

Link to comment

I agree, I often cache with a toddler, or if I'm having a bad pain day it helps to narrow down what caches I can do. I really appreciate the attributes - would be nice if we could suggest them if they haven't been select, for the cache owner to approve.

 

That is a really good idea that I hadn't thought of. Maybe you should bring that up in the feedback section :)

 

It already is suggested when you submit a cache that doesn't have any attributes selected. The suggestion even provides a link to the attributes selection page. Attributes are nice, but they (obviously) are not required.

Link to comment

I agree, I often cache with a toddler, or if I'm having a bad pain day it helps to narrow down what caches I can do. I really appreciate the attributes - would be nice if we could suggest them if they haven't been select, for the cache owner to approve.

 

That is a really good idea that I hadn't thought of. Maybe you should bring that up in the feedback section :)

 

It already is suggested when you submit a cache that doesn't have any attributes selected. The suggestion even provides a link to the attributes selection page. Attributes are nice, but they (obviously) are not required.

It's been a while since i've submitted a new cache, but isn't there a note in bold letters about how important attributes are, and please take time to add them to your cache?

Link to comment

The reason that I liked AbbieK's idea is that it could apply to caches that do already have attributes, but perhaps the co has overlooked one, or a new attribute has arisen. (such as blackberries have since sprung up near gz, or Groundspeak has added a new attribute that would be a better fit)

but this is straying off topic.

Link to comment

Realistically, the attributes are largely either misused, misapplied, misunderstood, not used or not enough of them. I'd guess that 40% of caches or more have some bad attributes applied to them - It is so bad that you cannot count on the attributes to really tell you very much about any cache. Reading past logs and the descriptions is still required to get any decent information.

Link to comment
Nothing requires attributes and some CO's just don't want to use them.

that's the problem . attributes are really helpful for people to narrow down the caches that they're prepared for on a certain trip.

 

but COs who don't use attributes are just as likely to have their caches excluded from PQs set to only include caches with certain attributes as they are to get in PQs set to exclude certain caches, so what goes around comes around.

Link to comment

I rarely look at attributes. It just doesn't cross my mind. I read all the previous logs to find hints and potential problems regarding conditions surrounding the cache location.

 

I just assume that there is a strong possibility of thorns or poison ivy or some such in the areas where we most often look for caches.

Link to comment

I have a blind child, and I myself am disabled. I often need as much information as I can get!

I like to hunt caches that include thorns, and and long hikes/climbes, but I am not always able to do so. If I were to assume the worst about every single cache, I just wouldn't be able to cache at all most days.

Link to comment

Make your choice and continue.

 

If I had been the original poster, I might not have chosen to bushwack through poison ivy unless I was prepared for it.

 

Having got to the cache I would have been very annoyed to find a field puzzle - if it was not listed as a mystery cache, how was it identified.

 

Then if the CO accused me of damaging the cache, the choice would be simple. I would mutter about it to my friends, perhaps contact the reviewer if a field puzzle was listed as a traditional, but in any event, start adding caches to my ignore list.

 

But I have to say that although I include attributes with my caches, I never use them when caching. There are just too many to make me want to bother.

Edited by mulvaney
Link to comment

I have a blind child, and I myself am disabled. I often need as much information as I can get!

I like to hunt caches that include thorns, and and long hikes/climbes, but I am not always able to do so. If I were to assume the worst about every single cache, I just wouldn't be able to cache at all most days.

 

While I can understand your situation as I am experiencing related selection problems, I learnt that attributes are certainly nothing to rely on. It is not even reliable to ask cache owners for more information in case you do not know them and they do not know your situation well. I made the best experiences by asking fellow cachers who have already visited the caches I have in mind and know my capabilities or what is important for me sufficiently well.

 

One of the problems with the attributes is that many of them mean completely different things to different people. E.g. setting the kid friendly icon because the kids of the hider enjoyed the cache does not need to mean that others will enjoy it at all - what is safe for one group of people, is a big danger for others etc.

 

It is also quite subjective what a field puzzle is (apart from the fact that this attribute is quite new and cachers are not informed about new attributes so those who are not lurking around in geocaching forums a lot and do not discover such new attributes by chance will not even realize them). I have set this attribute for my first cache back from 2003 although it's not a puzzle that has to be solved. It is just a question that people with a broad general education will be able to answer off their head easily and without even having to think while others might need help (internet, phone joker, second visit etc).

 

Another example: In my area one has to expect ticks everywhere in nature. In my opinion, it makes only sense to set the ticks attribute only for caches where the danger of ticks is higher than on the average. There are at most 10 attributes and one needs to choose the most important ones that are not clear anyway from the beginning by knowing the area. (Those not knowing the area should get advice from locals anyway).

 

Cezanne

Link to comment

I never look at attributes, so I never put them on my own caches. I personally don't find them useful, mostly because there are too many of them to be useful. The more attributes that are added, the less useful they become. I rely on the write up and reading past logs. Then again, I'll pretty much do any cache regardless of what the attributes are.

Link to comment

Realistically, the attributes are largely either misused, misapplied, misunderstood, not used or not enough of them. I'd guess that 40% of caches or more have some bad attributes applied to them - It is so bad that you cannot count on the attributes to really tell you very much about any cache. Reading past logs and the descriptions is still required to get any decent information.

The biggest problem I have is that the system will not let me select all the attributes I want to use on my caches, so I have to pick and chose. :blink: This means that I may not have the attribute that a finder wants :(

Link to comment

I rarely look at attributes. I think I glanced once when I had this desire to try for a challenge cache oriented around them (subsequently didn't bother as the trip to go find that cache was not going to pan out for me). When I finally looked at the attributes on some of the caches I found I didn't find them to be all that accurate in many cases after the fact. In some cases caches should have had attributes they didn't have as well.

 

So I try to base my cache finding on maps of the area to determine if it looks like something I may be able to get to. That and the description and logs by people who have found the cache already. I find they give much more info than the attributes anyhow.

Link to comment

 

This appears to the cache owner right on the cache page if no attributes are selected. I believe a similar message is displayed on the cache edit page in bold red text upon initial submission of a new cache that hasn't had any attributes selected.

 

icon_Boardattention.gif Attributes

No attributes available

 

Help your fellow geocachers by adding attributes about your cache!

 

What are Attributes?

 

 

Link to comment

I like attributes and find them useful. We use attributes on all of our caches in order to help finders select a cache that meets their caching style. I have a PQ set for caches with the scenic attribute. I have a winter PQ for winter-friendly, short hike (<1km), non-micro caches. Most often I will set a PQ that excludes 'dogs not allowed' and 'fee required'. If I arrive at a cache site where there are "No dogs allowed" signs, I wouldn't hesitate to mention it in the logs and suggest that the owner chose the appropriate attribute to help out other dog owners.

Edited by Lone R
Link to comment

People not using Attributes is a huge pet peeve of mine.

 

In most cases I think the CO is being lazy. I suspect there is a high correlation between caches with no attributes and caches with very short descriptions. Maybe I should do a run a home radius PQ sometime for caches with no attributes and test that theory...

Link to comment

If I arrive at a cache site where there are "No dogs allowed" signs, I wouldn't hesitate to mention it in the logs and suggest that the owner chose the appropriate attribute to help out other dog owners.

 

That seems a bit pushy. Attributes are not required. You want to forcesuggest someone to use something that is not required?

I never look at attributes. But it dogs are not permitted, I will put it up on my caches. Or not open at night. Or fee charged. Hunting permitted.

Fill out the ten with useful information: Fires not permitted in the park downtown. Or snowmobiling. Or camping. Still no attribute for bears. (I have a lot of caches in bear territory.) So, I use the next best thing: Cows. Everyone knows that cows are more dangerous and evil than bears! So, it works.

Yes? You were saying???

Link to comment

The real issue here, is that the people that don't put attributes on their cache, probably don't use them. It wasn't until a different thread was posted on these forums about the exact same issue (Lack of attributes). I didn't realize they were as big of deal.

 

Personally, I think the best way would to have a button right above the two checkboxes for the TOS, the button could say, "Click here to add attributes" using javascript, the button would add the the attribute selection screen to the the cache information page.

 

This would serve a couple points.

 

- It would be intrusive for those that still don't want to use attributes for personal reasons. After all, it's a small button.

 

- People that actually use attributes can save time, and have it be streamlined by doing it on the same page as the regular listing.

 

- People that don't use attributes because they weren't educated about them, may actually use them now, instead of being hidden on a list of 10 or so small fontsize 8 links, it will be right there on the cache page. People will probably notice it.

 

- When editing information on the description/hint, it won't be in the way as it is a small button.

Link to comment

Some CO's play the game differently than you. Nothing requires attributes and some CO's just don't want to use them. The harm, no foul. So if the cache does not have attributes or hints your faced with a choice. Make your choice and continue.

 

I agree. In the early days of geocaching often pretty much all you had were coordinates. Your GPS was the tool to get you there. YOU figured out how to get there. YOU discovered where to park. YOU selected your route to the cache.

 

Some geocachers still enjoy doing that and some cache owners still like hiding caches that require those skills. Not everybody wants to have their hand held through the process.

 

Attributes are nice to have. Sometimes they are important to have, but they are not and never should be required.

Link to comment

YOU figured out how to get there.

Putting the coordinates in google maps and doing a google search instead of the CO saving you 15 seconds?

 

YOU discovered where to park.

Another google search of the park and/or entering coordinates into google maps instead of CO saving you another 15 seconds?

 

YOU selected your route to the cache.

You are forced to take the CO's trailhead? Why not just bushwhack 1000 feet, that sounds better.

Link to comment

YOU figured out how to get there.

Putting the coordinates in google maps and doing a google search instead of the CO saving you 15 seconds?

 

YOU discovered where to park.

Another google search of the park and/or entering coordinates into google maps instead of CO saving you another 15 seconds?

 

YOU selected your route to the cache.

You are forced to take the CO's trailhead? Why not just bushwhack 1000 feet, that sounds better.

 

Yep, all part of it.

Link to comment

If I arrive at a cache site where there are "No dogs allowed" signs, I wouldn't hesitate to mention it in the logs and suggest that the owner chose the appropriate attribute to help out other dog owners.

 

You certainly can do that, and many cache owners then might add the attribute. It needs to mentioned however that often the hiders of a cache are not able to answer some of the questions that need to be answered for setting the attributes correctly. For example, I do not own a dog and do not care where dogs are allowed except for the case when I go caching with a friend from abroad if she brings along her dog. Most cachers in my area come by car and are not informed about public transportation. Many cachers cache without small children and do not have any idea whether a certain cache is recommendable for children. I have encountered already heavy debates on that in both directions and above all complaints of cachers with kids when the attribute was set, but they felt that the aattribute should not have set. I learnt from that it is best to be very conservative when setting attributes of that type. Rather not set them than receiving complaints. The same is true for the 1 hour attribute - use it only when the cache is very short (much shorter than 1 hour for the quick ones).

 

Cezanne

Link to comment

If I arrive at a cache site where there are "No dogs allowed" signs, I wouldn't hesitate to mention it in the logs and suggest that the owner chose the appropriate attribute to help out other dog owners.

 

You certainly can do that, and many cache owners then might add the attribute. It needs to mentioned however that often the hiders of a cache are not able to answer some of the questions that need to be answered for setting the attributes correctly. For example, I do not own a dog and do not care where dogs are allowed except for the case when I go caching with a friend from abroad if she brings along her dog. Most cachers in my area come by car and are not informed about public transportation. Many cachers cache without small children and do not have any idea whether a certain cache is recommendable for children. I have encountered already heavy debates on that in both directions and above all complaints of cachers with kids when the attribute was set, but they felt that the aattribute should not have set. I learnt from that it is best to be very conservative when setting attributes of that type. Rather not set them than receiving complaints. The same is true for the 1 hour attribute - use it only when the cache is very short (much shorter than 1 hour for the quick ones).

 

Cezanne

 

For sure. I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't own dogs to notice the "No Dogs Allowed" signs. But in-line with the OP's experience, if I inform the CO about the signage and let him/her know how important it is to dog owner's to have this information (if it's a hot day I can't leave my dog in the car while I go hunt for the cache), I would hope the CO would be courteous and include an attribute.

Edited by Lone R
Link to comment

For sure. I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't own dogs to notice the "No Dogs Allowed" signs. But in-line with the OP's experience, if I inform the CO about the signage and let him/her know how important it is to dog owner's to have this information (if it's a hot day I can't leave my dog in the car while I go hunt for the cache), I would hope the CO would be courteous and include an attribute.

 

I fully agree with you, but judging from your formulations it appears to me that I as a cache owner would feel more comfortable with the way you put forward your suggestions than with the the way the OP apparently communicates his/her wishes.

 

Attributes can be helpful, but they are not a must. Causing damage to a cache container is not any more excusable if an attribute is missing as it is if all appropriate attributes are set.

 

There are also other problems associated with attributes. Take e.g. the bike attribute.

I know several caches where the bike attribute is set because the trail is popular among MTB riders even though the trail is not a MTB trail and riding a bicycle there is illegal (in my country riding a MTB is only allowed on special trails, on all other ones it is officially forbidden - there need not be any prohibition signs.)

So this creates a dilemma. Dedicated MTB riders would like to sort out those routes which are nicely suited for MTB (and which are used frequently by MTB-ers despite the law issue) and appreciate if the bicycle attribute is set while some others (non-locals e.g.) might be annoyed by the fact that the attibute is set and they will have to pay a fine if they are caught.

 

Cezanne

Link to comment

I'm such a nerd... adding carefully selected atributes is one of my favorite parts of hiding caches

That said, the only one I use int Chirp attribute which I have set to avoid since I can't do them with my 60csx or Nuvi

Edited by d+n.s
Link to comment

This was brought up in our local threads a while back. I really hadn't given much thought to the attributes, but after reading the thread I went in and added some to my caches.

 

However, it was mentioned that most of the important info on the attributes where also mentioned in the cache description by most COs. Several people then said they don't read the cache page, just the attributes.

 

If that was true, I would get rid of all attributes. If you won't read the cache discription you don't deserve the attributes. ( I did leave in the attributes I added, because I believe most people will read the description. And those that don't, wouldn't even if there were no attributes. )

 

I am also not real sure of what attributes are needed. If anyone was to find one of my caches and feel it needed an attribute, I would love to get a note to that effect.

Link to comment

I always add attributes on my hides, but just realized that I never use them when trying to find a cache. Hmmmm.

 

+1

 

We definitely use winter-yes.gif around here in the wintertime.

 

Not often enough. And then the age old debate.. available in the winter or winter friendly?

Link to comment

This was brought up in our local threads a while back. I really hadn't given much thought to the attributes, but after reading the thread I went in and added some to my caches.

 

However, it was mentioned that most of the important info on the attributes where also mentioned in the cache description by most COs. Several people then said they don't read the cache page, just the attributes.

 

If that was true, I would get rid of all attributes. If you won't read the cache discription you don't deserve the attributes. ( I did leave in the attributes I added, because I believe most people will read the description. And those that don't, wouldn't even if there were no attributes. )

 

I am also not real sure of what attributes are needed. If anyone was to find one of my caches and feel it needed an attribute, I would love to get a note to that effect.

I have only recently figured out how I think people should go about choosing them. If I think of it in terms of pocket queries it helps me choose attributes.

For example, I know some people narrow out results that are not wheelchair friendly, so I try to make that status clear. I know some people only do caches with parking, so I try to make that status clear. Some people can't/won't climb so I make that part clear.

I just try to help people either find or avoid my caches depending on their special needs. Minor stuff like campfires and other stuff is a last priority.

 

Really, if attributes work and are used correctly, t's probably healthier for your cache and cachers. Also, you can save a little space in your descriptions for people who hate reading or just have GPSrs with tight character limits.

 

I've actually used an attribute as a hint on one of my caches, but I don't think anyone has ever noticed.

Link to comment

 

I have only recently figured out how I think people should go about choosing them. If I think of it in terms of pocket queries it helps me choose attributes.

For example, I know some people narrow out results that are not wheelchair friendly, so I try to make that status clear. I know some people only do caches with parking, so I try to make that status clear. Some people can't/won't climb so I make that part clear.

I just try to help people either find or avoid my caches depending on their special needs. Minor stuff like campfires and other stuff is a last priority.

 

Really, if attributes work and are used correctly, t's probably healthier for your cache and cachers. Also, you can save a little space in your descriptions for people who hate reading or just have GPSrs with tight character limits.

 

+1

Link to comment

This was brought up in our local threads a while back. I really hadn't given much thought to the attributes, but after reading the thread I went in and added some to my caches.

 

However, it was mentioned that most of the important info on the attributes where also mentioned in the cache description by most COs. Several people then said they don't read the cache page, just the attributes.

 

If that was true, I would get rid of all attributes. If you won't read the cache discription you don't deserve the attributes. ( I did leave in the attributes I added, because I believe most people will read the description. And those that don't, wouldn't even if there were no attributes. )

 

I am also not real sure of what attributes are needed. If anyone was to find one of my caches and feel it needed an attribute, I would love to get a note to that effect.

While I agree that reading the description is very important, attributes are very useful in PQs and rough sorting. As I stated, when searching for a cache that's within my or my sons abilities, I can't search based on description.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...