Jump to content

GC.com website VISUAL feedback thread


bittsen

Recommended Posts

Well, this thread answers a big question for me! For the last 3-4 days or so, I've been completely unable to do anything at all on the geocaching.com website, in fact, I can barely get it to even OPEN! I wondered what was up; didn't realize there had been any changes planned/carried out.

 

I'm stuck with a dialup connection, so I'm basically using cave painting - at least it seems that way most of the time - so I'm guessing that whatever "improvements" were made are too much for my connection to handle. If I'm lucky, & very patient, I can get a cache's page to open after 10-15 minutes, but I can NOT get one printed or bring up a map. If I'm not lucky, trying to open a cache page will seize up my computer & I have to get completely offline & start all over again.

 

I was just about to upgrade to a premium membership; guess it's lucky for me that I didn't do it yet, or I'd be PO'd!! As it is, it looks like I may have been "improved" right out of the game! :rolleyes:

 

zookeepertx

Edited by zookeepertx
Link to comment

As for the mucked up cache pages (and profile pages), announcing the changes a couple weeks in advance with a "whats changing" and possible impacts to your cache pages would probably have helped calmed many of the complaints. One cache owner posted links to his cache pages and pointed out what exactly is wrong. Raine did tell him exactly what he needed to do to restore the pages to the previous state. I think a prior announcement of changes coming and impacts and cures would have helped immensely.

 

I think Jim is right here - communication can help and there certainly wasn't any in this case. It would have been nice to have a description of what was coming down the chute and why it was being done as I said above.

 

I guess when you own the biggest show in town you can pretty well do what you want. I still hate the changes, probably more than I did yesterday. The customer may not always be right, but the customer is still the customer. It would be wonderful if Groundspeak would be responsive to their customers.

 

Ken

Link to comment

I don't care much either way regarding the My / Your Profile. I'm just intrigued by one of the mod's comment that the decision for that came from "up high". Not a good sign.

 

I have dual 1600x1200 monitors. I tried stretching it across two monitors, I still don't like the excessive amount of white space. I've been working with GreaseMonkey scripts and Stylish styles to minimize the amount of white space and wasted screen real estate. That at least is entertaining and has kept me from being too frustrated.

Link to comment

I will echo everyone's sentiments here... I really dislike the new design. I actually find it much harder to read. I thought it was a problem with my browser at first, so I decreased my font size... this is even worse . Please change it back. Eugh.

 

The style probably won't decrease my geocaching, but it will definitely decrease my time on the site. I spend a lot of time scrolling through cache pages or looking through my old finds. The new style just doesn't make that pleasurable anymore.

Edited by benji55545
Link to comment
I'm also skeptical that the changes where needed for internationalization,
I don't know about the specific changes that geocaching.com made, but I do know that in general, layout changes may be required to allow a site to be translated/localized well. For example, headings can change size, depending on the words used in different languages. A rigid layout that is optimized for one language can fall apart when translations for another language are used instead.
Link to comment
No, I haven't 'missed the point'. I could care less what what Groundspeak uses their resources for...be it iPhone, Android, Wherigo, site redesign or naked hot tub parties on weekends. I'm saying it's their site and they can do what they want. Just because you and others think something is "unnecessary' doesn't mean it's not part of some plan down the road.

 

Personally, I think the iPhone app was a good idea with the first release, but each subsequent release has diminished the experiment. There's no need for all that functionality in my mind, I think you should visit the website to log the cache... but the people in the iPhone forum will disagree with me.

 

As for PQs, I've no idea what you are talking about. I submit a PQ request, I get it within minutes. If you are talking about "scheduled" PQs, then you are keeping an offline DB which are officially not supported and how can you expect GS to support them?

 

Rant all you want, neither you or I will influence what they do unless it serves their purpose.

Unfortunately I think you are absolutely right about Groundspeak not caring. And since the site they run are built almost entirely up by data created by us, the users, they may very well be digging their own grave

 

I mean, what Groundspeak provides is really nothing more than a fancy search site. And I am very much willing to pay money for a well-working geocache search site because I understand that it costs money to run one. But what I find very difficult to accept is that Groundspeak acts like they own the data. They are almost like Gollum in LOTR, treating the cache listings as "their precious". This is wrong, has always been wrong and will always be wrong. Information wants to be free! And while we may not be able to influence what Groundspeak will do, what we can do is to remove our data from the site and upload it to an open caching listing database instead. Then maybe Groundspeak will listen. This has already started in some countries. Eg. in Sweden, Opencaching is gaining a lot of attention and if Groundspeak continue down to the road they are going, I think Opencaching will grow fast in Sweden.

 

As for PQs, I can tell you what happened yesterday. In the morning I got a call from a friend who wanted to go out geocaching in an area where my last PQ was a bit dated. I created a new PQ, checked the check box that I wanted it to run immediately and then be deleted. Then I waited. And waited. And waited. Nothing happened and I was afraid of being late to my friend so I considered going out with my old PQ instead. As a last desperate measure, I checked the checkbox for "Saturday" and then the PQ arrived within a couple of minutes. This is just one example of PQs not working properly for real usage. A properly implemented GPX premium function would allow you to query for all geocaches in a very large area, e.g. an entire country/state, and then download the GPX file immediately after the query has completed. But I guess this would make it too easy to steal the "precious" data that Groundspeak considers their property...

 

iller

Edited by iller
Link to comment
I'm really thinking on stopping being a premium member... :rolleyes:

 

I'm puzzled, how does that fix the problem?

 

Simple... I dont need to be a premium member to do geocaching and I dont feel that paying is the solution. I allready made some new feature sugestions for the geocaching website and they were not heard.

This change was really a mess, is like any other service provider. At first I didnt understand why TerraCaching and OpenCaching.... Now I'm starting to realize why pay for geocachign.com and have a bad service If you could have a better experience for free? Ok, in the other servers there is not so many caches, and what? I Groundspeak continues to do this changes as if thew were the gods of the world, more and more people start to be agains Groundspeak.

 

I really feel if they not change their actitude the will loose a lot of costumers.

 

And as you are a premium member I'm really puzzled why are you puzzled? "Beat me in one side and I will give you the other face?" Are you payed by ground speak to say good thing about them?

 

The Iphone App was a good thing, but this web site chang wasn't. If I was a Groundspeak webdisigned, reading this topic and the amount of people that deslikes the new site design I would put back online the previous desing, make the necessary changes for internationalization offline and wht every thig is ok, withous extra and extra spacing, without "your instead of mine" I would put it online as a preview and for one weak os soo have the feed back of the Premium members (because we pay their salary) If most of the premium members agreed with the changes, then I would put them online as official!

 

Do you still puzzled?

Link to comment

All cache logs have <br><br><small>View this Log</small>... which would be much better at the right of the date/name line than doubling the log height for short logs - not that I've ever understood the use of the link anyway and am currently hiding it. (Though not the more stubborn breaks)

I don't really understand the usage of those <br>s either, it's not like you couldn't call it all <div>View this Log</div> and add the relevant margin-top and font-size styles for it. <br>s are not supposed to be used for creating empty spaces on pages.

 

But since you already managed to hide the View this Log -text then I believe you are using some custom CSS file for the geocaching.com site like I am, so try adding the following to it to hide the <br>s:

 

table.LogsTable tr > td > br:nth-last-child(-n+2) {
display: none;
}

Link to comment

Some of my puzzle caches use large letters.

 

These letters now overlap and cant be read.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...e1-6946aee60466

 

That's certainly your own personal problem, not Groundspeak's. Why were you using those large letters anyway? I bet they never looked good in, say, a phone anyway. Just make them regular text and everyone will be happy.

 

It IS their problem. Like it was mentioned above, geocaching.com is built almost entirely on data provided by us. I say leave the pages just the way they are. We have over a dozen affected listings and we are going to just leave them that way.

 

Try and view them on your phone now. :rolleyes:

Edited by Arse&Hemi
Link to comment

Is there anyone from GS seeing this threat at all!

 

Or just ignoring it? Is this the way to treat your customers who keep this game moving! I have hidden some caches (things that are necessary for this game keep running) and never receive a cent for that!

Is that so terrible just to answer our doubts and listen to us, the ones that give you a job!!!

 

Think of that! Maybe Terracaching will be an alternative, for bad design maybe i will prefere them!

Wake up, give us alternatives! Gives us the option to chose our template!

 

PS: Still awaiting for my answer! Will you answer me?

 

Guess not :rolleyes:

Link to comment

Is there anyone from GS seeing this threat at all!

 

Or just ignoring it? Is this the way to treat your customers who keep this game moving! I have hidden some caches (things that are necessary for this game keep running) and never receive a cent for that!

Is that so terrible just to answer our doubts and listen to us, the ones that give you a job!!!

 

Think of that! Maybe Terracaching will be an alternative, for bad design maybe i will prefere them!

Wake up, give us alternatives! Gives us the option to chose our template!

 

PS: Still awaiting for my answer! Will you answer me?

 

Guess not :rolleyes:

 

ooh yeah TerraCaching looks very interesting..............NOT

 

they are not making it easy for people to join, more like "stay away"

 

How to become a member.

 

TerraCaching.com is a worldwide geocaching club. To become a member two other people who are already members must be willing to sponsor you. Your sponsors will then become your cache approvers.

Edited by t4e
Link to comment

M a y b e i f w e a l l t y p e l i k e

 

 

t h i s e ve ry on e w i l l u n d e r s t a n d

 

 

 

w h a t w e a r e c o m pl a i n i n g

 

 

The forum software didn't like all my spacing....L O L

 

 

a bo u t ! !

Edited by Shilo
Link to comment

All cache logs have <br><br><small>View this Log</small>... which would be much better at the right of the date/name line than doubling the log height for short logs - not that I've ever understood the use of the link anyway and am currently hiding it. (Though not the more stubborn breaks)

I don't really understand the usage of those <br>s either, it's not like you couldn't call it all <div>View this Log</div> and add the relevant margin-top and font-size styles for it. <br>s are not supposed to be used for creating empty spaces on pages.

 

But since you already managed to hide the View this Log -text then I believe you are using some custom CSS file for the geocaching.com site like I am, so try adding the following to it to hide the <br>s:

 

table.LogsTable tr > td > br:nth-last-child(-n+2) {
display: none;
}

Thanks for suggesting this... hadn't thought of a great solution when I was playing before. Now using:

  span#ctl00_ContentBody_CacheLogs br+br {display:none !important;}
 span#ctl00_ContentBody_CacheLogs small {padding:0 0 0 5px !important;}

Which works well for me.

Link to comment
I don't care much either way regarding the My / Your Profile. I'm just intrigued by one of the mod's comment that the decision for that came from "up high". Not a good sign.

 

I have dual 1600x1200 monitors. I tried stretching it across two monitors, I still don't like the excessive amount of white space. I've been working with GreaseMonkey scripts and Stylish styles to minimize the amount of white space and wasted screen real estate. That at least is entertaining and has kept me from being too frustrated.

Like you, I'm pretty wide -- I'm on a 1920 x 1280 LCD here -- and it isn't the pixel width of the monitors that is causing people problems -- you're 100% correct, it's the way the space is being used by the HTML code that fouls it up for everyone. You can bet that the pages looked JUST as funky to the developers!

 

My comment remains:

 

Get the LEAD(ing) OUT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading

 

and make better use of the horizontal space so as to avoid unnecessary line wraps that just exacerbate the vertical space problem.

Link to comment

I know it was a lot of work to do, so I'm sorry to vocalize this, but the new layout is rather horrible. The site seems like a rushed together thing now instead of the more professional "softer" look it used to have. As mentioned over and over, it's probably the whitespace thing, but I don't feel as "comfortable" when viewing the site anymore. It's kind of like shopping for something at a store that uses pleasing colors, like (for me) a Target store, versus shopping at a huge, warehouse like Wal-Mart. There's something clunky and frustrating about too much empty space (I'm NOT agoraphobic - I love the outdoors). The new look of the site is like all of those metal girders above you, like you're somewhere unfinished. The old look was much, MUCH better. PLEASE return it!

Link to comment

This looks like garbage

hint1.jpg

 

This would look good

hint2.jpg

 

 

Agree? Disagree?

 

agree. My style script strips the extra space, but it seems the that eye flows better if the key is under the hint. I thought moving the key over by the hint was a good idea.

Edited by jholly
Link to comment

I'm putting in my vote to

 

GET RID OF THE WHITE SPACE, PLEASE!!

 

I would not write for an editor who used excessive white space in publication because I know that the general readership wants substance, and already has plenty of room in the margins to make notes, should they so desire. No one wants to turn thirty pages to read what was formerly printed on fifteen or twenty. No one sitting in front of a computer monitor wants to scroll twice as far to read a cache page.

 

White space was a fleeting fad among publishers in the 70s. It was abandoned when new subscriptions declined and old ones were cancelled.

 

Don't kid yourself. It's not pretty. It's not stylish. It's unwanted and ugly and out of vogue.

Link to comment
Overall I see what GS was trying to do, but a few bugs and format issues seemed to make it worse. The site is still functional, but not as nice. I'm not angry, I just think there is a lot of room for improvements with this visual layout.
Me, too - and perhaps moreso?

 

:laughing: I like the tables on my profile pages. Clean, crisp, sharp looking. If all tables looked like that I bet there would be very few complaints (some people just hate change).
At 1280x1024, the "Log Visit" wraps to a 2nd line, causing enormous waste of vertical space - tons of white between line entires.

 

:rolleyes: I also like the profile link on the left hand side
Given that I know who I am, and am the ONLY one who will ever see this page, why are we wasting horizontal space putting the cacher's name in front of every single entry? That is, after all, the ONLY name that will ever appear there. Seems a bit useless. Then again, it's nothing new, but now space is at a premium. Time to fix the problem or start cutting out the unnecessary items. (I'm talking about the individual line entries on the left side of the Profile Page, mind you. You may be talking about something else.)

 

:shocked: A LOT of wasted space.
Well, I'm with you on THAT score!

 

:huh: I liked the second map where it was. It seems out of place on the right margin.
I'm neither one way or the other. I would prefer that wherever it is, it not soak up any additional vertical space. The problem as I see it now is that the items from Additional Hints and below can't start until the Inventory section has completed on the right, which may leave a ton of wasted space unless the combined short and long descriptions can soak it up - and they often don't. The use of space, rather than being dynamic, seems very much fixed.

 

:laughing: Why the change to last 30 days? 7 was enough and if I wanted to go back that far I can just go to my public profile and see all. (Or do a search).
If I researched the way this was used, and discovered that lots of power cachers were frequently pulling up ALL of their caches to find something below the 7 day cut, I might open it up to 30 to see if that kept the traffic down a little bit. Perhaps that actually was what happened?

 

:) Does anyone need the decoder on the cache page. Almost every GPS decodes the hint instantly, and those who aren't paperless can either read ROT1 or have the cipher written down somewhere. Sure you can keep it on the page, but it's taking up WAY more room than before. Also is there a need for online map links on every cache page?
Or at least allow the decoder and the hint itself to occupy the same horizontal space. As it stands now, that huge block of space out to the right of the decoder is unused by anything. Another mega white space issue.

 

:laughing: Why is the text in the cache logs so small IT should be just as big as all other text.
My eyes aren't getting any younger, either. But I'm more inclined to allow for something that shouldn't occupy more vertical space. BUT - the problem is, the leading between lines is so large that it all takes up a ton of space anyway. It's like someone has selected 1.5 vertical pitch or something.

Sending messages to members has turned into a pain as well

Link to comment

Just a sidebar, here:

 

At least twice now, I've clicked the "Go" box following the page-spanning tracking code box at the bottom of the page when logging a TB, passing right over the "Submit" button. The long box draws the eye, misleading the fingers. It's counter-intuitive.

 

Why do we need a full sixty-character line to enter the six or seven character tracking number, anyway? Inquiring minds, and all that...

Link to comment

Just a sidebar, here:

 

At least twice now, I've clicked the "Go" box following the page-spanning tracking code box at the bottom of the page when logging a TB, passing right over the "Submit" button. The long box draws the eye, misleading the fingers. It's counter-intuitive.

 

Why do we need a full sixty-character line to enter the six or seven character tracking number, anyway? Inquiring minds, and all that...

 

When they localize the web site the Klingon language has very long numbers so they need the space. :)

Link to comment

Since the update, Im getting less than half (and closer to less than one quarter) of emails from my owned caches and watchlist caches than I usually get. That tells me that people are not using the site as much. In Arizona, where its been a lovely 70-80° outside, that is definitely out of the norm.

 

I noticed this as well and

 

thought the e-mail system was broken.

 

 

 

I looked at Your trackables, which btw should be My trackables, and saw I haven't had

 

 

 

 

any logs this week. Same with *Your* caches...nothing.

 

 

 

Can't imagine the site downgrade

affecting cachers going out caching

 

 

though. I didn't go because I had other things

 

 

 

to do and it rained all weekend.

Link to comment

One of the things that got me hooked on caching was reading the different cache pages and logs. I would wander through looking at cache names that stuck my fancy and then read about the cache and others adventures. Close to home, far away it didn't matter I had gas and vacation days. The new look really makes that much less enjoyable. White space that goes on forever. Hints are a full inch from where "Additional Hints" is. Bookmark Listings (I know but I use them) are squeezed. Pictures on the cache page that just puts in all out of sync. I just log the couple caches I found coming home from my recent trip and it was not the pleasure it used to be. Please rethink the recent change, IMHO it is not working well.

Link to comment

When I first started using geocaching.com in March 2009 I noticed that while the presentation of each page on the site was very basic, the underlying code was bloated and sloppy. Since the site’s appearance looked professional, I could overlook the messy code since my broadband connection allowed pages to load relatively quickly.

 

When I saw that the justification for regression in the site’s appearance was because of steps taken to lay the groundwork for future enhancements I was really hoping that it meant that geocaching.com was switching over to the use of semantic HTML and CSS which would clean up the front end code while simultaneously making pages more accessible and smaller in file size which would reduce download times. Unfortunately this doesn’t appear to be the case. The front end code is still full of bloat, and while the new appearance isn’t horrible, with a little bit of work, it could really shine.

 

I realize that the geocaching.com site is built with .NET and that the IDE for .NET generates sloppy HTML, but I also know that there are web development firms that build beautiful sites with .NET, so blaming .NET isn’t a good excuse. I’m only a design and development hobbyist, but I’m very tempted to see what it would take to redo some of the pages using clean code and to put some polish in the design. I know that Groudspeak is very protective of its intellectual property so there may be some issues with use of logos, data, etc., but I think some screen shots of redesigned pages made by community members might be a good way of showing how the site could look. For example, taking an existing cache page, then redesigning it and putting up the before and after screen shots would be a good way to get some community feedback that hopefully Groundspeak can use. Ultimately it shouldn’t be up to us to do design work, but if nothing else, it will be more constructive than saying “it looks like crap, fix it.”

 

For those of you complaining about white space: White space does serve a purpose. It’s not always “wasted space”. When used properly it can be very effective. While I agree that there are certainly some issues with white space in the redesigned site, proper use of white space will create a much nicer site than having everything crammed together.

Link to comment
I'm saying it's their site and they can do what they want.

Actually, with a large following of paying members, I say the site it's "their site", but rather that we paying members are like share holders... we pay for a service that we like. They change it, making their paying members upset for whatever reason (at least, a large, vocal segment), and that is NOT good.

They may have made the site, but in opening it up for financial support and membership from other people, those people now become part of the 'team', if only because it's their money that funds the system. Even if you don't think it's a Bad Idea, it's still a Dumb Idea if the result is loss of membership, or a greater barrier to entry for new membership.

 

TPTB gotta be smart when there are people investing in your service.

Link to comment

When I first started using geocaching.com in March 2009 I noticed that while the presentation of each page on the site was very basic, the underlying code was bloated and sloppy. Since the site’s appearance looked professional, I could overlook the messy code since my broadband connection allowed pages to load relatively quickly.

 

When I saw that the justification for regression in the site’s appearance was because of steps taken to lay the groundwork for future enhancements I was really hoping that it meant that geocaching.com was switching over to the use of semantic HTML and CSS which would clean up the front end code while simultaneously making pages more accessible and smaller in file size which would reduce download times. Unfortunately this doesn’t appear to be the case. The front end code is still full of bloat, and while the new appearance isn’t horrible, with a little bit of work, it could really shine.

 

I realize that the geocaching.com site is built with .NET and that the IDE for .NET generates sloppy HTML, but I also know that there are web development firms that build beautiful sites with .NET, so blaming .NET isn’t a good excuse. I’m only a design and development hobbyist, but I’m very tempted to see what it would take to redo some of the pages using clean code and to put some polish in the design. I know that Groudspeak is very protective of its intellectual property so there may be some issues with use of logos, data, etc., but I think some screen shots of redesigned pages made by community members might be a good way of showing how the site could look. For example, taking an existing cache page, then redesigning it and putting up the before and after screen shots would be a good way to get some community feedback that hopefully Groundspeak can use. Ultimately it shouldn’t be up to us to do design work, but if nothing else, it will be more constructive than saying “it looks like crap, fix it.”

 

For those of you complaining about white space: White space does serve a purpose. It’s not always “wasted space”. When used properly it can be very effective. While I agree that there are certainly some issues with white space in the redesigned site, proper use of white space will create a much nicer site than having everything crammed together.

 

Funny I was just going to post a new thread posting this same suggestion.

Link to comment

Is there any evidence that posting in this thread achieves anything???

 

Look at the New Log page:

 

If the Date Logged is entered by drop down boxes, the ugly small bold italic (mm/dd/yyyyy) is completely redundant!

 

I've already posted this and been ignored. It seems like this thread is the equivalent of pissing in the ocean - it gives temporary relief but is otherwise ineffective.

 

Chris

Link to comment

I'm stuck with a dialup connection, so I'm basically using cave painting - at least it seems that way most of the time - so I'm guessing that whatever "improvements" were made are too much for my connection to handle.

 

What browser are you using? I've got dial up at home too and while I'm not a fan of the white space, all the pages are loading for me using IE8, FireFox, and Chrome.

 

I had several tabs worth of pages opened just last night in FireFox.

 

As for the "new look was designed for wide monitors" crowd- I've got a 22" widescreen at home and while the sight looks slightly better, there is still plenty of white space. The pocket query page is just silly looking on a widescreen.

Link to comment

Just a sidebar, here:

 

At least twice now, I've clicked the "Go" box following the page-spanning tracking code box at the bottom of the page when logging a TB, passing right over the "Submit" button. The long box draws the eye, misleading the fingers. It's counter-intuitive.

 

Why do we need a full sixty-character line to enter the six or seven character tracking number, anyway? Inquiring minds, and all that...

 

When they localize the web site the Klingon language has very long numbers so they need the space. :ph34r:

 

Qa tlho'! Will translate numbers henceforth.

Edited by Hoppingcrow
Link to comment

I'm really thinking on stopping being a premium member... :ph34r:

 

I'm puzzled, how does that fix the problem?

 

Well, I'm not puzzled at all. When a fair number of people say "enough of this lack of respect towards the customers", money stops flowing, Groundspeak (which is obviously run by the single purpose of making money) will hopefully stop for a while and think if they have been doing something wrong to cause such a reaction. And then, eventually, someone there will have this click: "perhaps it's because we do things as we like, not caring if they are what our customers want/need/deserve".

Link to comment

update your findstatgen.

 

I have the latest version... the before shot is what's generated from findstatgen itself... the after shot is what it looks like once I upload it onto my GC profile... and this only happened after GC changed the site

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...