DNF log deleted because "the cache is there."

[+charliewhiskey]

Here's my deleted log: "Am I truly the only one too obtuse to find this, or do other people just not bother to log DNFs? There's only one other DNF, and it's from when Teenogre and I didn't find it over a year ago. I was down from Portland (well, Hillsboro, really) with my son's high school band for the marching band competition at Autzen Stadium, and took a break to pick up a few caches. I tried for this one again and yet again had no luck. *sigh*"

 

The cache is "BeavTeam Sudoku 4" GC15QDQ. The cache owner deleted my DNF log because, in his words, "I went and checked on it and it is right where it should be. Fire me off your coords and i can verify them."

 

My reply: "Thank you for verifying the cache is still there, and thanks for the offer to check my coords. This is the solution I got for "Sudoku 4": (puzzle solution inserted here). Did I go wrong somewhere in there? If the coords are right, are you willing to give a hint about the cache hide, such as: is it above or below knee height?

I was disheartened to have you delete the log. I don't understand what you object to about it. A DNF log doesn't mean your cache isn't there. It just means I couldn't find it. It's more a reflection on my caching inadequacies than the quality of your cache. As a cache seeker I appreciate DNFs because they can tell me the cache might be a trickier hide than normal and I may need to invest more effort than usual in finding it. I would have spent more time searching for it if I hadn't been the only one unable to find it."

 

His reply to that: "[charliewhiskey], your coords are correct. The cache is a bison tube, low, but not on ground. Should be obvious when you get to ground zero. I deleted you DNF because I have been a little remiss in cache maintennance and wanted people to not question whether this BeavTeam Sudoku was there or not. Nothing personal with you. If you want to add a DNF back in after the next find, that will be ok. I just want people to know it is there and findable first."

 

Some more info: my DNF was logged Oct. 10, 2009. On Oct. 25 he posted an Owner's Maintanance log saying "All is well." He didn't bother to delete my "offensive" log until Dec. 27.

 

... and now I have one less DNF for the DNF Challenge cache I'm working on. *sob*

 

Just wanted to vent to a sympathetic crowd.

[+Chrysalides]

Well, for what it's worth, I sympathize with you. I think the CO is perhaps a little unclear about the purpose of a DNF log, but sounds like a nice person.

 

In most geocaches around here, the more responsive cache owners would post a note following a DNF saying "I just checked, it's still there". It's even better than deleting a DNF log in assuring people the cache is still there.

 

I didn't realize there's such a thing as a DNF challenge though - can you post the GC ID? Sounds hilarious

 

Edit : oh, wait, I forgot what I learned in "Dearly Devoted Dexter". *pats back* there, there

Edited January 5, 2010 by Chrysalides

[+StarBrand]

I've had a few DNFs deleted for about the same reason. I think this has a lot to do with the "last 2 DNF" filter in GSAK. Some COs are afraid thier caches will get filtered out if they allow DNF logs to sit there.

[+bittsen]

I wouldn't be rude about it but I would mention that a DNF is a personal statistic. By removing your DNF, they are messing with your statistics.

 

You could ask the reviewer in your area to reinstate your DNF and lock it.

[+charliewhiskey]

I didn't realize there's such a thing as a DNF challenge though - can you post the GC ID? Sounds hilarious

 

One is "D.N.F. Challenge" GC1MCEK. The more ridiculous one is "The Upside Down Smiley Challenge" GC1ZHK6. (I'd post links to them but I'm not clever enough to figure out how to do so.)

[+ThePetersTrio]

That just doesn't seem right. I hope you get your frowny-face back CW!

[+beejay&esskay]

I would be as unhappy if one of my DNFs were deleted as I would be if a find were deleted. It's part of my caching history and I don't want cache owners "tidying up" their caches' logs at my expense.

[+Max and 99]

That's just about the oddest thing I've heard recently. Some cachers delight in people posting DNF logs because it indicates their cache is difficult to find! One of ours gets a bunch of DNFs, and it's part of the cache history. Every person who has logged a DNF then returns later to find the cache, and logs: "It was exactly where I looked before."

I understand the cache owner's concern, but it's pretty easy to add a note or log maintenance to say the cache is still there and just fine.

Very odd that your log was deleted!

[+Harry Dolphin]

Reminds me of another thread, where someone posted a NM and a NA becuase there were two DNFs on a cache. This is one way to avoid that happening!

[Halfwaytothestars]

I'm a newbie who has looked for three caches from one CO, I found one instantly, another on the second visit, but the third eludes me. I posted DNFs on the second and third and then later edited the third to say, I looked again and again still have not found it. Others continue to find it so it is there but my problem may be that I don't really want to stick my hand into the bushes of a well-visited tourist site, god knows what liquids are in there besides what appeared to be sap. I'm bringing work gloves next time; and a way to muggle-proof myself. The hunt continues.

[Clan Riffster]

People are a strange breed. Sometimes they do strange things. "Meh".

[+edscott]

I'm working on a reasonable reason for a CO doing this.... I'll have to get back to you....

[+BlueDeuce]

Just wanted to vent to a sympathetic crowd.

 

Send him a link to this thread.

[+WebChimp]

I was disheartened to have you delete the log. I don't understand what you object to about it. A DNF log doesn't mean your cache isn't there. It just means I couldn't find it.

 

My goodness.

 

DNF means "I didn't find it", which has nothing to do if it's there or not.

 

We don't have an acronym for "Didn't find it altough I might find out later it's there and I just didn't find it."

[Keystone]

You could ask the reviewer in your area to reinstate your DNF and lock it.

Actually, the affected logger would write to Groundspeak, not their volunteer reviewer, for evaluation of the situation and restoration of a log determined to have been wrongfully deleted. The address to write to is: contact @ geocaching.com.

 

I had exactly this same thing happen to me after logging a DNF under my player account earlier this year. Not only was my DNF log deleted, I received harrassing emails from the cache owner, and the owner modified their cache page to criticize me by name. After five months of this nonsense, I wrote to Groundspeak. The cache page is now clean, and my original DNF log again appears on the page.

 

Why didn't I just use my reviewer account to restore my own deleted log? Because Groundspeak handles logging dispute issues - not volunteer cache reviewers. That's especially true when it's my own log that's in question.

[+charliewhiskey]

Excellent advice (and much-wanted sympathy) from all! Thank you! I'm now trying to decide it it's worth any more bother. That cacher has a couple more hides I also wasn't able to find (... but he didn't bother deleting THOSE logs...). I might just ignore his caches.

[+Chrysalides]

Excellent advice (and much-wanted sympathy) from all! Thank you! I'm now trying to decide it it's worth any more bother. That cacher has a couple more hides I also wasn't able to find (... but he didn't bother deleting THOSE logs...). I might just ignore his caches.

In his note to you, he sounds like a polite and reasonable person. Maybe if you tell him about why you log DNFs, and also about the DNF Challenge caches?

[+charliewhiskey]

In his note to you, he sounds like a polite and reasonable person. Maybe if you tell him about why you log DNFs, and also about the DNF Challenge caches?

 

He does sound reasonable. I'll give it a try. I just sent him an email asking if I may repost my DNF. I'll cross my fingers.

[+FunnyNose]

I had exactly this same thing happen to me after logging a DNF under my player account earlier this year. Not only was my DNF log deleted, I received harrassing emails from the cache owner, and the owner modified their cache page to criticize me by name. After five months of this nonsense, I wrote to Groundspeak. The cache page is now clean, and my original DNF log again appears on the page.

 

WOW that exact thing happened to me once. Except the "player account" reference.

 

The cache owner was even temporary banned for using potty mouth in their emails.

 

I'm proud of my DNFs

[+prntr1]

I was disheartened to have you delete the log. I don't understand what you object to about it. A DNF log doesn't mean your cache isn't there. It just means I couldn't find it.

 

My goodness.

 

DNF means "I didn't find it", which has nothing to do if it's there or not.

 

We don't have an acronym for "Didn't find it altough I might find out later it's there and I just didn't find it."

 

My goodness.

 

I have been holding my tongue for quite a while, but I know someone that deleted at least 4 DNF logs because "the cache was there", even though it really wasn't.

 

We don't have an acronym for "didn't find it because it was sitting on the owners desk until those pesky cachers left town and we could move the final coords"

 

I am going back to lurking now.

[Clan Riffster]

We don't have an acronym for "didn't find it because it was sitting on the owners desk until those pesky cachers left town and we could move the final coords"

"DFIBIWSOTODUTPCLTAWCMTFC"

You do now! Have a nice lurk!

[+simpjkee]

It is beyond my comprehension why cachers are so confused about logging (or deleting in this case) completely valid DNF logs. I doubt I will ever make sense of it.

 

[+Essap]

Minnesota DNF Challenge is GC18AQA.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Methinks the CO is trying to "overthink" the system!

 

So sorry about you losing your DNF. I hope it didn't disturb any of your milestone achievements!

[Keystone]

Minnesota DNF Challenge is GC18AQA.

Readers are cautioned not to "copy" this challenge cache idea for their own home area. As the challenge cache sub-type has evolved, a challenge like this would not be published if submitted today. Challenge caches should focus upon positive geocaching achievements, like finding a cache in every map grid or with names beginning with each letter of the alphabet.

[knowschad]

Minnesota DNF Challenge is GC18AQA.

Readers are cautioned not to "copy" this challenge cache idea for their own home area. As the challenge cache sub-type has evolved, a challenge like this would not be published if submitted today. Challenge caches should focus upon positive geocaching achievements, like finding a cache in every map grid or with names beginning with each letter of the alphabet.

But, I am positive I have way more than enough DNFs to log that cache.

[+charliewhiskey]

Minnesota DNF Challenge is GC18AQA.

Readers are cautioned not to "copy" this challenge cache idea for their own home area. As the challenge cache sub-type has evolved, a challenge like this would not be published if submitted today. Challenge caches should focus upon positive geocaching achievements, like finding a cache in every map grid or with names beginning with each letter of the alphabet.

But, I am positive I have way more than enough DNFs to log that cache.

I too have enough DNFs to log that one. It only took me 4 years to accumulate that many DNFs. We have this challenge outside Salem, Oregon: GC1ZHK6 - The Upside Down Smiley Challenge published 10/2/2009. For this you also have to collect 100 DNFs, but oh-by-the-way, the only ones that count are ones you've logged since the cache was published. Gee - just another 3 1/2 years and I may be able to log this one.

[+charliewhiskey]

In his note to you, he sounds like a polite and reasonable person. Maybe if you tell him about why you log DNFs, and also about the DNF Challenge caches?

 

He does sound reasonable. I'll give it a try. I just sent him an email asking if I may repost my DNF. I'll cross my fingers.

BTW, I did email the owner, who never replied. So I just re-posted my DNF.

[knowschad]

In his note to you, he sounds like a polite and reasonable person. Maybe if you tell him about why you log DNFs, and also about the DNF Challenge caches?

He does sound reasonable. I'll give it a try. I just sent him an email asking if I may repost my DNF. I'll cross my fingers.

BTW, I did email the owner, who never replied. So I just re-posted my DNF.

I wonder if anybody arm-chairs DNFs for these challenges?

[+Renegade Knight]

... I deleted you DNF because I have been a little remiss in cache maintennance and wanted people to not question whether this BeavTeam Sudoku was there or not. Nothing personal with you. If you want to add a DNF back in after the next find, that will be ok. I just want people to know it is there and findable first."...

 

First. Your DNF log was fine. However the key thing is what I quoted. The cache onwer has a problem with finders refusing to find perfectly good caches because other folks log DNF's. Truthfully I've seen the same tendancy in some of my caches including very hard ones that get DNFs. AFter a magic number they start posting NM logs instead of DNF's becaues in their world view clearly someone would find the hard cache every X number of finds and therefore the owner should go check on the cache and assure them that it's still there to be found.

 

I'm not saying deleting your DNF was the right thing to do, but I am pointing out that the owner does seem to have a legitimate problem on their hands with no easy solution.

[+Renegade Knight]

In his note to you, he sounds like a polite and reasonable person. Maybe if you tell him about why you log DNFs, and also about the DNF Challenge caches?

 

He does sound reasonable. I'll give it a try. I just sent him an email asking if I may repost my DNF. I'll cross my fingers.

Given the problem he's trying to solve, I suspect he will stick to his guns and allow your DNF after the next find log.

 

I had one owner ask me to modify my DNF log because I had posted a spoiler. I complied all the while laughing at the irony.

[+simpjkee]

In his note to you, he sounds like a polite and reasonable person. Maybe if you tell him about why you log DNFs, and also about the DNF Challenge caches?

He does sound reasonable. I'll give it a try. I just sent him an email asking if I may repost my DNF. I'll cross my fingers.

BTW, I did email the owner, who never replied. So I just re-posted my DNF.

I wonder if anybody arm-chairs DNFs for these challenges?

 

I know they do.

Edited February 12, 2010 by simpjkee

[+simpjkee]

Minnesota DNF Challenge is GC18AQA.

Readers are cautioned not to "copy" this challenge cache idea for their own home area. As the challenge cache sub-type has evolved, a challenge like this would not be published if submitted today. Challenge caches should focus upon positive geocaching achievements, like finding a cache in every map grid or with names beginning with each letter of the alphabet.

 

 

Logging DNF's is not a positive achievement? Knowing that, as a responsible geocacher, you logged completely necessary and valid logs is not a positive achievement? That makes no sense to me. This idea that DNF logs are 'negative' is nonsense.

[knowschad]

Minnesota DNF Challenge is GC18AQA.

Readers are cautioned not to "copy" this challenge cache idea for their own home area. As the challenge cache sub-type has evolved, a challenge like this would not be published if submitted today. Challenge caches should focus upon positive geocaching achievements, like finding a cache in every map grid or with names beginning with each letter of the alphabet.

 

Logging DNF's is not a positive achievement? Knowing that, as a responsible geocacher, you logged completely necessary and valid logs is not a positive achievement? That makes no sense to me. This idea that DNF logs are 'negative' is nonsense.

I would word it a bit differently, but essentially I think I have to agree with you. We have worked very hard here to try to dispel the concept that logging a DNF is a negative thing, and now Groundspeak's official policy seems to be implying quite the opposite. Personally, I find those DNF challenges to serve the purpose of making light of DNFs.

[+brodiebunch]

I would have a CO delete my DNF than delete my find without first giving reason for the deletion.

Edited February 12, 2010 by brodiebunch

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

DNF is sanctioned by the Oregon DMV.

[+Delta68]

Had a valid found log deleted once - it was just a simple trad cache, it was not as though we gave away any spoilers etc

 

We don't bother doing any of that CO's caches now - there's 1000s more in the world why bother with ones who give you hassle?

[james__12345]

There are a few caches around where I go to college. A couple of them I go to every couple days and take a fresh look to see if anything pops out at me, but I cant always look really well because of muggles in the area. I dont post a DNF every time I'm there, but once I feel I've given the area a fair look I will. One of them I think I've even logged DNF twice now, since I've been looking for a couple months. I have even talked, IN PERSON, to the owner and he told me he has went back and checked and they're fine. Its just me, but I dont log every trip over there, because I know it would make his hide look like it might not be there. I don't agree with deleting a DNF log, but at the same time, I dont think you should post one if you've only spent 5 mins looking for the cache.

[+hukilaulau]

A few years ago I posted DNF's on the first stage of a couple of multis (placed by the same cacher).

Soon he replaced the stages and deleted my DNF's. No email explaining why (just the notification from Groundspeak.) Now when you read the logs there is just a seamless string of finds and a buried note saying the caches were "back." I never asked him about it but I suppose it had something to do with GSAK and PQ filters.

[+narcissa]

I think it's rude for a CO to delete a DNF log. I log DNFs, in part, to keep track of caches I've failed at so I can go back to them later. When a CO deletes a DNF log, he/she is deleting my own record of my visit.

[4wheelin_fool]

Just log it as a find. Wait a few weeks and change it to a DNF.

 

It's a rough world out there.