+GuanoGerbil Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 This post should ruffle a few feathers... I know people go geocaching for so many different reasons. Some caches take you to wonderful new places. Some caches have very creative hides. Some challenge you physically. Some are just plain silly. But I simply can't understand the reason for using puzzles in geocaching. Obviously the idea of getting people stumped for some time before finally working out the solution (or not) fascinates some cache owners. Why do they do this? They're obviously not trying to encourage people to visit their cache, therefore the main reason for placing that cache is simply for the puzzles sake. Is this really what geocaching is all about? I simply find it annoying that I have to waste so much time trying to solve a puzzle before I can so much as step out the door to even start trying to find it. What does searching on Google actually have to do with geocaching? If I wanted to do a puzzle, I could simply buy a puzzle book and sit inside doing them all day long. Personally, I would much rather be spending my spare time outdoors, in new places, actually geocaching instead. Some of you out there may look at some of my caches I own and point out that many of them are physically challenging, and that is not what geocaching is about either. I disagree. For one thing, it challenges people to push their comfort zone a little. When they do that, they get a great feeling of accomplishment which can be very rewarding - both to the cacher, and to read about in the logs afterwards. And they take you to some incredible places; not to mention the push-play aspect to it all. I understand that some people like to do puzzles, and some don't. Some like to be physically active, and some don't. We're all different. However, the high terrain caches are always out in the boon-docks, miles away from any cities and spread far and wide. If you don't want to do them, then these caches are easy to ignore. Puzzle caches on the other hand are invariably scattered about all over town. If you don't solve them, they sit there - right in your face - taunting you. Even worse, if you don't solve all of them, you never know if any of the spots around town are free for a cache placement or whether they’ve already been taken by yet another puzzle. It’s got to the stage now where unless it’s a straight forward puzzle to solve, I’ll throw it straight on to the pile of unsolved puzzles cluttered on my local area list, out of principle, as much as my lack of patience and lousy puzzle solving abilities! The feedback I’ve received locally is that there appears to be a few cachers out there who actually enjoy(?) puzzle caches. But then, these are obviously the ones who are creating them. I’ve got no problem with that - we’re all different after all. However, the majority out there seem to dislike them at least as much as I do. How does everyone else feel about puzzle caches out there in the big world? And more importantly, are puzzle caches really in the spirit of geocaching? OK, time to run for cover... Quote Link to comment
+Isonzo Karst Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 You do have a NOMEX suit, don't you? And more importantly, are puzzle caches really in the spirit of geocaching? They are for people who enjoy puzzles. I like map based puzzles; that's about it on puzzle caches for me, but I sure think that they are as much in the "spirit of geocaching" as say, caches on Historical Markers. There used to be a forum regular with a sig line that said (paraphrased because I don't quite remember it): if I wanted a tour of Historical markers, I'd buy a guidebook. If you don't solve them, they sit there - right in your face - taunting you. Only if you are a radius slave. If you tend to just go hunt what you like, the stuff that you don't like isn't an issue. if you don't solve all of them, you never know if any of the spots around town are free for a cache placement Valid point. Before expending a bunch of effort on a new hide - ask the local reviewer if the coast is clear for it. Especially in a puzzle cache dense area. Quote Link to comment
+Cpl. Klinger Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 This post should ruffle a few feathers... (snipped for brevity) How does everyone else feel about puzzle caches out there in the big world? And more importantly, are puzzle caches really in the spirit of geocaching? OK, time to run for cover... I think that the answer all depends upon the type of puzzle you are completing. The puzzle caches which require mathwork or searching Google, like you say, never get put on m to do list. Puzzle caches that actually require you to visit a location for the information, be it a cemetery or landmark, those will get added because I get to go there, see and do something interesting in the execution of the find. Just the way I do things. Overall, I think puzzle caches are fine, and most folks like doing at least some types of them. To start arguing about their specifics as if they are really in the true spirit of geocaching is just arguing semantics and will only lead this into the usual accusations of elitism and so on. If you like em, do em. If you don't like em, don't do em. No one is holding a gun to your head that you have to. Quote Link to comment
+Kit Fox Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I disagree but there are some that share your gripe. Can't puzzle caches be treated differently, please? Quote Link to comment
+Unkle Fester Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I'm just not good at puzzles. If it's going to take some time, I won't bother. How ever, puzzles are about the only part of geocaching I can get my wife into. Therefore I love them - I just havn't done many. If you go much beyond adding 2+2 I get lost. There was a puzzle that came up near the house that was based on a Star Wars movie and I did it without having to re-watch... I already knew all the answers. That was pretty funny, and sad at the same time. Other puzzles, well, I just ignore. Quote Link to comment
+Semper Questio Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 No ruffled feathers here, but I'll jump in with a few thoughts... "...therefore the main reason for placing that cache is simply for the puzzles sake. Is this really what geocaching is all about?" Seems to me geocaching is about having fun. Some people love setting puzzles. Others love solving them. Obviously you don't like either. So why trouble yourself over them? "I simply find it annoying that I have to waste so much time trying to solve a puzzle before I can so much as step out the door to even start trying to find it." No, you don't HAVE to. You CHOOSE to. You can always just ignore them. "Some of you out there may look at some of my caches I own and point out that many of them are physically challenging, and that is not what geocaching is about either. I disagree." Of course you do. Those are the kinds of caches you like and that's fine. But why get your skivvies in a twist over what others like. And sometimes it's not all about preference. There are folks that, for whatever reason, simply cannot do the types of caches you clearly prefer and consider to be proper caches, and they may even wish they could do them, but they must seek their challenges and play the game in other ways. "If you don't want to do them, then these caches are easy to ignore. " Exactly. The same goes for puzzle caches, letterboxes, and every other cache out there. If you don't like it, filter them out with PQ's or GSAK and/or add them to your ignore list. But why do some insist on forcing their standards and definitions what geocaching is on others? "How does everyone else feel about puzzle caches out there in the big world? And more importantly, are puzzle caches really in the spirit of geocaching?" Do I love puzzles caches? No, not at all. I save doing puzzles for whn I am trapped indoors and want to do something cache-related. I go get the final when I happen to be near one. But then again, I don't obsess over many caches of any type. I just go hunt what I can when I can and have the most fun I can while I'm doing it. Are the really in the spirit of geocaching? Why wouldn't they be? You strongly prefer caches that challenge the body. Others strongly prefer caches that challenge the mind. I daresay the majority of cachers fall somewhere in the vast middle ground between the two extremes. As long as each seeker is having fun, then I'd say the spirit of geocaching is there, alive, and well. If the seeker is not having fun, then I'd say the problem is more with the seeker, his/her selection of caches to hunt, and/or the manner in which they approach the game than with the caches themselves. Quote Link to comment
+magking1971 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 If you dont like them dont hunt them. Quote Link to comment
+The Blorenges Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I'm not going to comment because the previous responses have covered all the points I might have made but I just wanted to say that I really appreciated your well-considered and nicely worded OP. MrsB Quote Link to comment
+Col. Flagg Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I love puzzle caches, they are what geocaching is all about, THE CHALLENGE. Geocaching is all about the challenge of the hunt, if there is no challenge what's the fun of caching. But than again, for some it's just a numbers game, to those I apologize that every cache is not an easy LPC.(I am being sarcastic if you can't tell.) Quote Link to comment
Team CDCB Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I simply find it annoying that I have to waste so much time trying to solve a puzzle before I can so much as step out the door to even start trying to find it. What does searching on Google actually have to do with geocaching? If I wanted to do a puzzle, I could simply buy a puzzle book and sit inside doing them all day long. Personally, I would much rather be spending my spare time outdoors, in new places, actually geocaching instead. ... Snippage... I disagree. For one thing, it challenges people to push their comfort zone a little. When they do that, they get a great feeling of accomplishment which can be very rewarding - both to the cacher, and to read about in the logs afterwards. And they take you to some incredible places; not to mention the push-play aspect to it all. Interestingly, I think your reasoning behind the validity of high terrain difficulty caches can also be applied to puzzle caches: Challenges people? Check. Pushes them out of their comfort zone? Check. When do, is there a feeling of accomplishment? Check. Is it rewarding? Check. To the hider? As long as there is a good log, check. Take you to interesting place? Physically - sometimes. Mentally - also sometimes. Hey, Puzzle caches aren't for everyone. High terrain difficulty aren't always things I can do, both due to the time involved and a somewhat limited body (not that I don't try, just that I end up paying for it later if I do to much). But a Puzzle cache can be quite fun as I mentally try to solve the puzzle, and then get the sense of accomplishment once I've figured out how it works. However, the majority out there seem to dislike them at least as much as I do. I think you could say this about Lamp Post Micros as well. And yet, there are people who like 'em. So, why worry about it? And more importantly, are puzzle caches really in the spirit of geocaching? In a word, Yes. Quote Link to comment
Alan White Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 This post should ruffle a few feathers... No ruffled feathers here, and I write as someone who - mostly - enjoys puzzle caches. It's a thoughtful, well presented post but it still boils down to the usual "I don't like [insert cache type here] caches so they should be banned". It's up to you to choose which types of cache you like to place and seek. You do not have to "waste so much time trying to solve a puzzle " - simply ignore it and go and do the caches you like. All the reasons you give for hating puzzle caches and liking physical challenges can easily be reversed to support the other type of cache. Puzzles will "push [your] comfort zone" if you aren't good at mental challenges, and I get "a great feeling of accomplishment" from solving and then finding a puzzle cache. In fact, I get more satisfaction from such caches simply because of the additional challenge. And bear in mind that being a puzzle cache and being a physical challenge aren't mutually exclusive. A puzzle can lead to a physical challenge or "take you to some incredible places". You won't know until you solve the puzzle. Are puzzle caches what geocaching is all about? I don't know: what is geocaching all about? And is it the same for everyone? Clearly not, so do the caches you like and don't do the ones you don't. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 ...are puzzle caches really in the spirit of geocaching?... Yes, as are all other variations of finding hiden things in the world including the ones we haven't thought up yet. Not all variations will be equilly popular, but most will have a place and an audience. Quote Link to comment
+nericksx Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I don't know how I feel about them yet. Typically I'm and instant gratification type of person, so I usually skip the puzzles because it's just that much longer before I can grab my geobag and get out there. However.... One of the reasons that I like geocaching is that I get to learn about new stuff and I did one puzzle with my mother-in-law (an Egypt buff) based on some trivia about the Pyramids at Giza. So I learned something, so that was cool. However.... I pooched the puzzle and wound up in totally the wrong place wasting my time. That pissed me off. However... One day at work when things were slow enough that I didn't have a lot to do but not so slow that I could sneak out and cache, I decided to work a puzzle at my desk to at least kinda get my geo-fix. So that was cool. However... I keep all the non-micros in a 20 miles radius loaded in my blackberry at all times so I can spontaneous cache if the opportunity arises, and if I do a "sort by location" and see the nearest one is a darned puzzle, it bums me out. As you can see, I have a mixed opinion. I agree with the others tho: if you don't like em' don't find em. You don't have to be a radius slave. I don't typically do micros or even smalls, so I just weed 'em out with my PQ and go on my merry way. Quote Link to comment
+bittsen Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 While I agree with you, to a degree, that puzzle caches are quite pointless as far as I am concerned, unfortunately you lost your argument in paragraph 3. What you said was Terrain caches challenge and add a sense of accomplishment on a physical level. The exact same could be said for the puzzle caches on a mental level. So you lost the argument. Having said that, I know there are quite a few who work on puzzles in the off season to have caches to look for during their own personal cache season. Working the puzzles is no more or less fun than playing solitaire or a board game so I can see how some would enjoy them. Personally, I have looked at a couple, decided I didn't like the way the puzzle caches were configured and left it be. But, I would NEVER discourage from following the type of cache they like. I am just thankful that they have their own icon on Google maps and that I can filter them out of my pocket queries. Quote Link to comment
+tozainamboku Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 However, the majority out there seem to dislike them at least as much as I do. I think you could say this about Lamp Post Micros as well. And yet, there are people who like 'em. So, why worry about it? I need to challenge this response. I'm fairly certain that more people dislike puzzles and therefore ignore them than dislike lampposts hides. Many people like to complain about lamppost hides and yet they still go and find them. I suspsect they even enjoy them but have just heard so much about them being lame than when they find one they decide it was lame (yet run home to log their smiley). Many people see a puzzle and immediately their eyes glaze over. They have no idea how to solve it so it just goes into the pile of caches they never do. Some people will even filter out all mystery type because these are mostly puzzles. That being said, the OP primarily comes across as saying "I don't like doing puzzle cache so I think they aren't in the spirit of geocaching." It wouldn't be so bad but they feel a physically challenging is good but a mental challenge is somehow outside of the spirit of geocaching. One of the complaints about lamppost caches is that once you have found one there is no challenge. But in order to find the first you had a mental challenge. You need to think about where a cache might be hidden and discover that you could actually lift the cover. Granted solving a cipher is a bit artificial of a mental challenge. Since part of geocaching is getting to the location, for most physically challenging caches, the challenge is an integral part of the cache hunt. I laughed out loud when the OP complained that while physical challenges are always out in the boon-docks, while puzzles are scattered around town. Some who didn't want to do physical challenges could avoid them, but you couldn't avoid the puzzles because "they sit there - right in your face - taunting you". While the follow up that having unsolved puzzles means you don't always know if a cache placement will be denied because there is a final from a puzzle to close by is a legitimate issues, being taunted by a cache isn't. The nearest unfound cache to my home is now a 5 star terrain cache in a tree that requires tree climbing equipment to get. I'm unlikely to ever get this cache. I'm not in the forums complaining that it sitting there taunting me. Quote Link to comment
+nards656 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I have two small children and a wonderfully GCing wife. The two children are NOT GC friendly. I love LPCs. I hate puzzles. It's fine with me for them to exist, but they should be ignored in density calculations. Not fair to deny me (or somebody else) the right to place a cache because of a puzzle. "Pushing the boundaries" for me means giving me a way to cache with my kids without it taking three hours to find one. So those of you who can hike 40 miles a week looking for the hard ones, feel free. Those of you who puzzle, puzzle away. But leave something that the rest of us like, too. Quote Link to comment
+StarBrand Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I'll refer you to a post I made the other day in another topic..... http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=4001699 Quote Link to comment
+Avernar Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 That being said, the OP primarily comes across as saying "I don't like doing puzzle cache so I think they aren't in the spirit of geocaching." It wouldn't be so bad but they feel a physically challenging is good but a mental challenge is somehow outside of the spirit of geocaching. Exactly. I find it funny considering the first cache was a drive by. Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 If you dont like them dont hunt them. Exactly. Where's that t-shirt already? Quote Link to comment
Groleau Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Geocaching is a game. I think the great thing about caching is that there is something for everyone. I'm not too crazy about puzzles simply because when I'm ready to geocache, I don't want to sit at home head scratching. I like tough caches that require sweat... this is just me. Thanks for the thought tho Quote Link to comment
+bartrod Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) I live in northeastern Wisconsin [even farther north than the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field) with winter lasting 4 or 5 months of the year. So I save all the puzzle/mystery caches to solve for those long winter days when it's snowing like a banshee or the temps are 20 below zero. Then when spring arrives, I go find them. So, yes...I think there's a place for puzzle caches in geocaching[] Edited July 21, 2009 by bartrod Quote Link to comment
+hydnsek Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 The OP would have really hated this event: Geocaper IV. Quote Link to comment
+Konnarock Kid & Marge Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 While I also don't want to use my time in the house solving puzzles when I can be on a nice two or three mile hike, puzzle caches have a place for those who like them. I don't particularly like lamp post micros but I would never belittle them. As I have learned, all geocaches have a place. My personal favorite are EarthCaches and a lot of people don't like them and that's OK! Even EarthCaches have a place in geocaching. Quote Link to comment
+GuanoGerbil Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) The OP would have really hated this event: Geocaper IV. OMG - my idea of Hell! I am really surprised at the level of enthusiasm at this event. But then again, if you're that way inclined, I guess it would be a fun day - especially working as a team. If I went along, I'd be in the same boat as nancois: "Whew! I'm glad someone else had to solve all of those eeeevil puzzles. All I had to do was wander around and look busy. And eat cookies at the finish!" Edited July 21, 2009 by GuanoGerbil Quote Link to comment
+Steve&GeoCarolyn Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I am too new to quite understand what the spirit of geocaching is. However, I love puzzle caches. We both do and we're glad they're a part of the game. Working the puzzles is no more or less fun than playing solitaire or a board game so I can see how some would enjoy them. I play a variety of board games as well as RPGs and other games. I don't typically do puzzles on my own if they're not attached to a cache or have some other meaning within a game. So when I say that it really isn't true for me that puzzle caches are similar to either playing solitaire or board games, I say that with a great deal of experience. Puzzle caches seem more like a live action role-playing game or a murder mystery party since the thinking is preparatory and alongside physical action. The best puzzles carry the theme through the cache and have some sort of meaning within the environment. It is also nice when you must puzzle additional things out in the field while searching for the cache. As I said, I'm not sure what the spirit of geocaching is supposed to be, but for me it is partially about solving mysteries, having adventures, and documenting them. (It is also about being in beautiful places, but that really doesn't apply to this conversation.) Puzzle caches add to the mystery component. Also, one cannot always be hiking. Sometimes it is too hot or too cold or one is injured or there is not enough time to geocache, but just enough time to think about a puzzle. Puzzle caches keep us engaged in geocaching even when we are housebound. Carolyn Quote Link to comment
+Steve&GeoCarolyn Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 The OP would have really hated this event: Geocaper IV. OMG - my idea of Hell! I am really surprised at the level of enthusiasm at this event. But then again, if you're that way inclined, I guess it would be a fun day - especially working as a team. If I went along, I'd be in the same boat as nancois: "Whew! I'm glad someone else had to solve all of those eeeevil puzzles. All I had to do was wander around and look busy. And eat cookies at the finish!" It would be our idea of heaven. Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 And more importantly, are puzzle caches really in the spirit of geocaching? sure. Quote Link to comment
+mrbort Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I think, like others have said, puzzles are the mental exertion analog to the physically challenging terrain caches. However, to say that they're all in town or are physically easy would be quite inaccurate where I live. The most physically demanding puzzles I have done (and some of the most remote) have been puzzles. Some required a combination of a lot of traveling around and vector math... super fun for me but I can absolutely understand others not being excited by them. I just feel like they're a subset of caching as valid as any other; luckily we can ignore caches and work with reviewers to find if a potential hiding spot is open Quote Link to comment
+GuanoGerbil Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Also, one cannot always be hiking. Sometimes it is too hot or too cold or one is injured or there is not enough time to geocache, but just enough time to think about a puzzle. Puzzle caches keep us engaged in geocaching even when we are housebound. Carolyn Isn't that what the forums are for? Quote Link to comment
+Steve&GeoCarolyn Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Also, one cannot always be hiking. Sometimes it is too hot or too cold or one is injured or there is not enough time to geocache, but just enough time to think about a puzzle. Puzzle caches keep us engaged in geocaching even when we are housebound. Carolyn Isn't that what the forums are for? LOL! Oh, no! Too much time on the forums and you start discussing what the government should or should not be doing. Or even worse, what other people's governments should do. Carolyn Quote Link to comment
+GuanoGerbil Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Some required a combination of a lot of traveling around and vector math... super fun for me but I can absolutely understand others not being excited by them. You are definately one sick puppy! Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 For fun, I'll try anything once. When it stops being fun, I don't do it anymore. Event caches, earthcaches, webcams and puzzle caches top my list of things that aren't fun for me. Puzzles are at the head of that list. I spend way too much time at a computer, so for fun I like to get away from that. I want to get out the door and go places, not work through a puzzle to figure out where I need to go. So, I filter out all mystery/unknown caches almost all the time, especially when traveling. I will make exceptions when an especially good puzzle cache is recommended to me, or if I know the solution method for a local puzzle and it captures my interest. All that being said, you will never hear me agitating on these forums or elsewhere for the removal or restriction of puzzle caches. I recognize how much fun they are for others, and I like seeing that. Let me have my fun hiking up a mountain or doing a numbers run, and you have your fun cracking codes and doing math. It is a big world and there's room for all sorts of caches. Geocaching has been around for nine years, so if a traditional cache hasn't been hidden in an area, I cannot complain if a puzzle cache fills the void. You snooze, you lose. Quote Link to comment
+OKH Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I have a learning disability in math and since puzzle caches almost invariable involve math, i steer clear. This means absolutely nothing in my life since geocaching represents a pretty big table to pick and choose from. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I haven't read the replies to this, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone else already gave this answer: "Are puzzle caches really in the spirit of geocaching?" I reckon that depends on why you are here. What brought you to the game, and what keeps you around? If the only challenges that appeal to you are of a physical nature, then maybe puzzles aren't for you. A few clicks in your PQ will make them all go away. If, on the other hand, you appreciate any challenge, (physical, mental or spiritual), then you might find puzzle caches to be right up your alley. I actually enjoy them, (even though I'm dumber than a bag of hammers), and I can oft be found pounding my forehead against my keyboard in frustration as I try to solve them. Quote Link to comment
Tahosa and Sons Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I really think this unique puzzle (mystery) is totally in the spirit of geocaching. And what is puzzling to some is just another daily routine to others, so if you don't like them then go find a LPC and move on. Quote Link to comment
+Steve&GeoCarolyn Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 If, on the other hand, you appreciate any challenge, (physical, mental or spiritual), then you might find puzzle caches to be right up your alley. Spiritual geocaching challenges? I'm trying to call a image to my mind of a spiritually challenging cache, but nothing is entering. Carolyn Quote Link to comment
+Bent Nerds Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I'm just not good at puzzles. If it's going to take some time, I won't bother. How ever, puzzles are about the only part of geocaching I can get my wife into. Therefore I love them - I just havn't done many. If you go much beyond adding 2+2 I get lost. There was a puzzle that came up near the house that was based on a Star Wars movie and I did it without having to re-watch... I already knew all the answers. That was pretty funny, and sad at the same time. Other puzzles, well, I just ignore. As a pretty new cacher, I love puzzle caches (haven't made any yet, just soved a few).. maybe you need to ask yourself why you have such a need to get those puzzle caches that annoy you so much? *Points and shouts completionist!* Quote Link to comment
+DragonsWest Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Re: Are puzzle caches really in the spirit of GeoCaching (emphasis on using the right caps) Short answer: Yes Long answer: There are people who absolutely thrive on puzzle caches. Recently placing my first puzzle (see how biased I am already?!?) I figured the puzzle wouldn't be too hard and it so far has proven not to be, a flock of visits 1st full day published. Meanwhile, up the coast there's a few engineers, mathemeticians or other wacko sadists and masochists who love to test each other to the 5th star of difficulty. Don't discount these cachers pleasure as they wouldn't discount your preferred mode of caching. Caching started as a global Easter-egg hunt, which could have been far more arcane that it already is. I've tried a few local puzzles and have enjoyed them. Others have me still scratching my head. To each their own, I sez. Quote Link to comment
Boneman65 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I don't have a problem with puzzle caches as such. If it's a simple sudoku or crossword, I'll take the time to figure it out. My favourites are the ones that try to teach you something about the area you live in, by incorporating important dates and such into the puzzle. Having said that, some puzzle caches are just ridiculous. Strings of characters with mysterious solving keys, or cryptograms that require you to have friends in the Pentagon to solve. These may be seen as a challenge to the hardcores, but sometimes to me they smack of elitism. Having said that, I respect the right of people to play the game their own way. If you want to place a puzzle cache that only 10% of the people will find, and you take pride in being one of those 10%, then I can see the reason and the appeal. It just ain't for me. Quote Link to comment
+DragonsWest Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I don't have a problem with puzzle caches as such. If it's a simple sudoku or crossword, I'll take the time to figure it out. My favourites are the ones that try to teach you something about the area you live in, by incorporating important dates and such into the puzzle. Having said that, some puzzle caches are just ridiculous. Strings of characters with mysterious solving keys, or cryptograms that require you to have friends in the Pentagon to solve. These may be seen as a challenge to the hardcores, but sometimes to me they smack of elitism. Having said that, I respect the right of people to play the game their own way. If you want to place a puzzle cache that only 10% of the people will find, and you take pride in being one of those 10%, then I can see the reason and the appeal. It just ain't for me. Well, I've also seen caches which Drew the cacher to no particular place Were hidden by no particular clever means (under pile of sticks/behind shrub beside trail) Seemed personal in nature Were in containers which wouldn't last a week in the open out of doors Wasted what could be been an opportunity for a larger cache (a pet peeve of a friend of mine, as he takes his kids with him and hates micros where Tupperware tub or Ammo can could have been hid) That last one has bother me a few times when I've come to a target rich environment and only find a 35mm canister tucked in a knot hole. Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 The OP would have really hated this event: Geocaper IV. OMG - my idea of Hell! It would be our idea of heaven. I'd love an event like that too. Participating in a geocaching puzzlehunt like that (lasting several hours) would be much more practical than participating in one of the non-geocaching puzzlehunts around here (lasting 24-48 hours). Having said that, some puzzle caches are just ridiculous. Strings of characters with mysterious solving keys, or cryptograms that require you to have friends in the Pentagon to solve. These may be seen as a challenge to the hardcores, but sometimes to me they smack of elitism.One of my favorite puzzle-caches is a 5-star puzzle based on the Enigma cipher used by the German military during WWII. I'm sure many ignore it, and it may seem elitist to some. A few have brute-forced the cache location without solving the puzzle, and others have brute-forced the puzzle by throwing CPU cycles at it. But there is an amazing elegance to the solution, and I'm very glad the owner created it, even if only a few of us appreciate his creation. Quote Link to comment
+CapeDoc Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 The fundamental question here is: Is geocaching better off having more elements to it, or less? If one takes the gold standard as a regular in the woods, then multicaches, micros, urban nano's, earthcaches ,Wherigo and puzzle caches are all just different elements or facets of geocaching. In my opinion, every facet appeals to different sets of geocachers, and thereby enriches the game. Take from geocaching what you will. Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Geocaching is a game. I think the great thing about caching is that there is something for everyone. I'm not too crazy about puzzles simply because when I'm ready to geocache, I don't want to sit at home head scratching. I like tough caches that require sweat... this is just me. Thanks for the thought tho I'm in the "like puzzles" camp and although I've found 85 puzzle caches (and solved about 25 more) I've never delayed going out looking for a cache because I had to solve a puzzle first. The amount and frequency of time I have available to go out and look for caches is limited so when I'm ready to go caching I just go. However, I have a lot more time available when I can't go out geocaching and can spend that time working on puzzles to be found later. Whenever I'm about to travel on business or on a vacation I'll look in the area I'm visiting for challenging puzzle caches. I recently solved one that was over 300 miles from home then found it (2TF) when I was in the area. It was a 5 star difficulty puzzle. 5 star difficulty caches are pretty area and this puzzle cache provided the opportunity to find one. Granted, it took a little over a week to solve that puzzle but since the cache was over 300 miles away I wasn't going to be searching for it anyway. Quote Link to comment
+GuanoGerbil Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 In my opinion, every facet appeals to different sets of geocachers, and thereby enriches the game. Take from geocaching what you will. Well said. Thanks to everyone for their input - I actually feel much better about this topic now. Yes puzzles still annoy me, and as Boneman65 pointed out, they sometimes even smack of elitism. It's a shame that puzzle caches are lumped into the same category as mystery caches. To ignore this category entirely means you may miss out on some great mystery caches. It's also annoying that they take up potential cache hiding spots that you wouldn't know whether they were free or not unless you found them all first (or constantly bug your reviewer). But then multi's fit into this category too... but then multi's generally have a good reason for doing this, whereas puzzles (in my humble opinion) don't. But hey, who am I to complain if I simply don't understand them or enjoy them, when so many others obviously do? Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 ]One of my favorite puzzle-caches is a 5-star puzzle based on the Enigma cipher used by the German military during WWII. I'm sure many ignore it, and it may seem elitist to some. A few have brute-forced the cache location without solving the puzzle, and others have brute-forced the puzzle by throwing CPU cycles at it. But there is an amazing elegance to the solution, and I'm very glad the owner created it, even if only a few of us appreciate his creation. I solved a 5-star puzzle which included an Enigma cipher, but was only one of many codes that needed to be broken to obtain the final coordinates. All of the ciphers and other puzzles were woven into a story line based on a book. The puzzle also included numerous elaborate red herrings that tied into the storyline as well. Although I solved the puzzle I may never actually find the cache as it's over 700 miles from where I live. Quote Link to comment
AZcachemeister Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I currently have 501 caches on my 'IGNORE!' list. Well over 450 of them are puzzles. They do not clog my PQs. They do not clutter my GPSr screen. If I have the time and inclination, I can solve them and find them anytime I wish, but I am not compelled to do so just because they exist. Quote Link to comment
+DragonsWest Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 ]One of my favorite puzzle-caches is a 5-star puzzle based on the Enigma cipher used by the German military during WWII. I'm sure many ignore it, and it may seem elitist to some. A few have brute-forced the cache location without solving the puzzle, and others have brute-forced the puzzle by throwing CPU cycles at it. But there is an amazing elegance to the solution, and I'm very glad the owner created it, even if only a few of us appreciate his creation. I solved a 5-star puzzle which included an Enigma cipher, but was only one of many codes that needed to be broken to obtain the final coordinates. All of the ciphers and other puzzles were woven into a story line based on a book. The puzzle also included numerous elaborate red herrings that tied into the storyline as well. Although I solved the puzzle I may never actually find the cache as it's over 700 miles from where I live. That is one of the great hazards of Puzzle and Multi-caches. I'm flying off for a week of visiting family and old friends and have loaded my GPSr up with maps and caches. I'll try to hit a couple puzzle and multi-caches, but only as time allows. Someone who organizes a Gran Tour puzzle/multi is likely only to appeal to local cachers. There's a series I'd love to visit all the stops of, but realistically it's the better part of a day spent, where I need to fit a cache here and there as time allows. Quote Link to comment
+bflentje Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 This post should ruffle a few feathers... -- snip -- How does everyone else feel about puzzle caches out there in the big world? And more importantly, are puzzle caches really in the spirit of geocaching? OK, time to run for cover... I'd just hate for someone ELSE to define what "MY" spirit of geocaching should be.. Either learn to click the Ignore button or learn to cheat if you can't solve puzzles. Quote Link to comment
+Steve&GeoCarolyn Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) This puzzles me (no pun intended): Yes puzzles still annoy me, and as Boneman65 pointed out, they sometimes even smack of elitism. But earlier you said: Some of you out there may look at some of my caches I own and point out that many of them are physically challenging, and that is not what geocaching is about either. I disagree. For one thing, it challenges people to push their comfort zone a little. When they do that, they get a great feeling of accomplishment which can be very rewarding - both to the cacher, and to read about in the logs afterwards. My sense from your early post was that you found puzzles kind of tedious and not as rewarding or challenging as high level terrain caches. So I am surprised that you find them both elitist and dull. For what it is worth, I don't do puzzle caches because they put me in some sort of elite. (I didn't even know that they did. At least not anymore than kayak puzzles put NYPaddleCacher in an elite since he also does caches that few people do.) I do them because they are fun. The harder they are the more of a sense of accomplishment I have at the end. I feel the same after doing a cache in a terrain that challenges my abilities or finding a well-camouflaged cache. I'm mystified as to why doing any of these things should be seen as elitist. Carolyn Edited July 21, 2009 by Steve&GeoCarolyn Quote Link to comment
+bflentje Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Here's a puzzle that even the dumbest bag of hammers should be able to figure out.. Win Big Cache Quote Link to comment
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