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Are we allowing the degradation of geocaching?


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I have been caching for almost three years. I realize that I wasn’t around ‘in the beginning’, but I’ve been around long enough to notice an increase in what I’ll refer to as ‘false logs’. I am talking about cachers logging finds when they didn’t even come anywhere close to the cache.

 

Examples are; logging virtual caches by merely finding the additional logging requirements on the internet, logging caches they happen to pass within a mile of on a road trip without even getting out of their car, having a friend or another cacher log their name while they remain at home.

 

I’ve seen these false logs, and I’ve participated in many forum discussions on these issues, and while there are many people that object to the practice of ‘false logging’, there are also many with the opinion that “if it’s not directly affecting you, then you shouldn’t worry about what other people do”. I personally think that this latter attitude, as it relates to false logs, will ultimately have a very negative impact on geocaching.

 

I certainly don’t agree with false logs, and I try not to let them bother me, but the fact is they do directly affect me. False logs degrade the game/hobby/sport/activity of geocaching, and what it means to be a geocacher. I am proud to be a geocacher. I fear that one day most geocaching will be done without leaving the computer, and we’ll have allowed it to come to this by ‘looking the other way’ on false logs. I won’t be such a proud geocacher then.

 

A good analogy would be the game/hobby/sport/activity of golf. Could you imagine a person who routinely played golf by merely throwing or kicking the ball around the course? Do you think the other golfers in the foursome would allow this? Do you think the club would allow this? I guarantee nobody would be saying, “It’s not hurting anyone so don’t worry about it”.

 

One might say that golf is a bad analogy because golf is a competition, and geocaching is not. Well I’m not talking about the PGA or a golf tournament. I’m talking about how most people are involved with golf. Although golfers may play a round with other golfers, it’s primarily about how that golfer plays related to how they normally play. They are competing with themselves. However this still does not allow them to change the rules so much that they bastardize the game. Sure golfers might place friendly wagers on their game, but there is just as much friendly competition in geocaching.

 

I am not proposing that everyone must adhere to a very strict set of rules, but false logs are getting a little ridiculous. One of the basic notions of caching is that you actually visit the location. I am proposing that cache owners who agree with the premise of physically visiting the cache location, do their part to enforce it - don’t allow false logs on your caches, and don’t be embarrassed to enforce this basic notion of geocaching.

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We have a personal geocaching 'ethic' that unless we can do the whole cache - personally - as was intended and actually sign the log, well, we don't bother. This has meant that a puzzle cache which we have a reasonable idea of where it is, but we can't actually solve the very complex cipher involved, has remained at the top of our closest list for quite some time.

 

We also delete logs (found or otherwise) on our caches that in anyway give away hints, or when it is apparent the person has not actually completed the whole puzzle/multi. We've just had to start doing that recently, so we do have a few logs remaining on our hides from before we made that requirement clear on the relevant cache pages. But now we've given clear warning - logs will be deleted!

 

And yes, we do feel that we are setting our personal standard higher than alot of cachers, but that's how we've decided to play the game. That is the best we can do to keep geocaching a high quality activity as the OP has indicated.

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In my short time geocaching I have observed quite a few behaviors that degrade the integrity of the game:

 

false logs

false discoveries of trackable items

false DNFs

arm chair caching

team caching (where one person makes the find, but the entire team takes credit) :laughing:

etc.

 

What are you gonna do? :)

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There is is a bigger problem that is degrading geocaching more than false logs. It is the practice of many people who find caches and then never log them online. These selfish individuals deny the cache owners and others the ability to enjoy knowing that cache is there and actively being found. A person may choose to not visit a cache that hasn't been logged online in awhile because they are not sure it is still there. A simple TFTC log would've have avoided this problem. Or imagine the cacher who enjoys the challenge of finding a "lonely" cache - one that hasn't been found in awhile. How will they feel when they find a cache and see that another cacher has singed the log a few days before? Worse is that people who do this are like people who won't tell you what their golf handicap is. How can you tell if that person is a good golfer if they won't tell the score. Do you thing the club will allow this? I for one will do my part as a cache owner and will cross out any name I find in the physical log that didn't log the cache online. That will show them the value of integrity. :mad:

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How will they feel when they find a cache and see that another cacher has singed the log a few days before?

 

Yeah! I had a cache log that got singed once. Really annoying when that happens! Why would anyone set fire to a cache log???

 

OP is asking about LCD. Least common denominator. Cheapening everyone's values. Nope. Sorry. Sign log. Get Smiley.

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who worries about false logs ? theres no way possible to audit all your caches if you got alot of them out..this game i think is going and finding caches and forget the johnny one upsmenship of who got the bigger numbers....i can sit here all day and post numbers that would curl yer hair....

Edited by team lagonda
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Does everyone on these forums really live in a different world of geocaching than we do here in the Near North?

 

I see so many threads, replies to threads and general condescensions surrounding the subject of false logs that it makes my skin crawl. Can this really be happening to our sport, hobby, or whatever you want to call it?

 

In our little world way up here, we have no such entity as a false log despoiling the fun we have placing and finding caches. Perhaps, like so many other things such as mass murders, spontaneous riots, or terrorist bombings, we are missing out on something else that sounds like so much fun to complain about.

 

(note: We're missing an icon that shows utter sarcasm, here) :mad::mad::D

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***I do not. I have not. And I never will, audit the paper logs in my caches against the online logs. Never.***

 

Ditto

 

The cache is there for the hunting. People can do whatever they want...the true Geocachers will actually find it...the others can have their grandmother sign it for them...or just dream about it and log it from the comfort of your home.

 

All I ask is that you hide it again...whether Physically or Telepathically.

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Welcome to "Geocaching Version B."

 

Physically going outdoors to find, then sign a cache log is obsolote.

 

Criticising anyone who practices "Cheesy Version B" gets you labled an elitist.

 

Arguing that a particular hide type is both dangerous, and hidden without permission, will get you lambasted on the forum.

 

Nice caches, hidden in unique/scenic/historical areas routinely get skipped so cachers can bag 20 1/1s instead of one quality cache.

 

Logging event caches 5 to 50 times to get smilies for temporary caches is "in!"

 

Sharing lists of trackables to pad your trackable stats is "in"

 

Armchair logging virtual caches while you sit at the computer in Germany is now "in."

 

Geocachers have become spineless and can't be bothered to delete frivolous logs on their caches. I guess they either don't care, or are afraid they might hurt someone's feelings.

 

 

I could go on and on, but most of these things have ruined the hobby for me. Now I waste half of my spare time researching caches that don't take me to parking lots, housing tracts, dumps, bum outhouses, pickle parks, and any other place where you have to ask yourself, "Why the hell would a geocachers share this place with me?"

 

 

TPTB don't care about these issues because they are only a "listing service." :mad:

Edited by Kit Fox
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When I find a false log on one of my caches I delete the log. I do not like the statement some have made in the forums "well if that is the way they want to play the game" I do not care how people that post false logs want to play the game, if is one of my caches I will delete the log.

I had one cacher place a micro down when he realized that my container was missing (Mine was not a micro) I deleted his log without warning, he called me on the phone all upset because "I was messing up his numbers" Ha!!!

I have seen other cachers that carry 35mm film cans in their pocket just in case they cannot find a cache, they will throw one down to get the find.

I know one person that caught a well know high numbers doing just this to one of her caches, she told him if he logged a find on one of her caches she would delete his find.

The cacher she caught was the same one caught doing the same thing to my cache.

 

IMO, there are lots of cachers that will cheat to get their numbers up. Some of us that have been around the forums remember what happed with the phony 24 hour high numbers run at geowoodstocl in Texas.

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I personally think that this latter attitude, as it relates to false logs, will ultimately have a very negative impact on geocaching.

I thought we just had a thread about false logging.

 

I'm curious what the negative impact you think the logs will have. Could you be a little more specific?

 

You gave an example using golf, but the fact is that MANY golfers in fact DO play by their own standards when they're just by themselves having fun and not in a tournament. Mulligans, do overs, unlimited balls in the lake until they get a good one, etc. But as you pointed out nobody thinks of golf generally as a cheater's game.

 

Monopoly is another good example of a game played between friends and different rules are often used. The monopoly game I play with my family at my house doesn't keep you from playing strictly by the MAONA Rules (Monopoly Association Of North America), and we'll both have fun doing it.

 

A line should definitely be drawn in the case where something has a negative impact on other players (stealing the cache container, moving the cache to a better place, logging your find with spoilers, etc.). But if someone wants to log a find twice, log a find that a friend actually found, log their own cache as a find, or some other benign logging practice, as long as the cache owner accepts it I just can't get worked up enough to care.

 

I love my numbers, but don't care about (almost) anyone else's.

Edited by Mushtang
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Welcome to "Geocaching Version B."

 

Physically going outdoors to find, then sign a cache log is obsolote.

 

Criticising anyone who practices "Cheesy Version B" gets you labled an elitist.

 

Arguing that a particular hide type is both dangerous, and hidden without permission, will get you lambasted on the forum.

 

Nice caches, hidden in unique/scenic/historical areas routinely get skipped so cachers can bag 20 1/1s instead of one quality cache.

 

Logging event caches 5 to 50 times to get smilies for temporary caches is "in!"

 

Sharing lists of trackables to pad your trackable stats is "in"

 

Armchair logging virtual caches while you sit at the computer in Germany is now "in."

 

Geocachers have become spineless and can't be bothered to delete frivolous logs on their caches. I guess they either don't care, or are afraid they might hurt someone's feelings.

 

 

I could go on and on, but most of these things have ruined the hobby for me. Now I waste half of my spare time researching caches that don't take me to parking lots, housing tracts, dumps, bum outhouses, pickle parks, and any other place where you have to ask yourself, "Why the hell would a geocachers share this place with me?"

 

 

TPTB don't care about these issues because they are only a "listing service." :mad:

 

Aman!

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I thought we just had a thread about false logging.

There have been several recent threads about various types of false logging. Some of them were initiated by the cache owner who seemed unsure about deleting false logs. I believe that some cache owners are unsure about enforcing their own rules because the idea of "let people play their own game" has prevailed in the forums. I would like to remind them that there are some basic premises of geocaching that we shouldn't be so quick to forget.

 

I'm curious what the negative impact you think the logs will have. Could you be a little more specific?

I could name some minor negative impacts, such as a 'false log' indicating to the owner and other cachers that the cache exists when maybe it was actually thought missing. But for me it's more than that. I proudly explain geocaching to others. I have introduced it to friends, and hope to introduce it to my children. When geocaching becomes an activity described by the majority as "using your computer to find locations on earth and write a note saying you were there,...oh, and maybe occasionally actually visiting the site", then it will be a lot harder to convince people that geocaching is fun. I realize many will still actually visit the caches, but geocaching will have lost a lot of credibility.

 

You gave an example using golf, but the fact is that MANY golfers in fact DO play by their own standards when they're just by themselves having fun and not in a tournament. Mulligans, do overs, unlimited balls in the lake until they get a good one, etc. But as you pointed out nobody thinks of golf generally as a cheater's game.

You're right, but I analogize mulligens, do-overs, etc. to things like finding the cache encased in ice yet logging as a find, or stumbling upon another cacher who has the cache out in the open yet still logging a find - minor stuff. I analogize false logs to kicking and throwing the golf ball - ridiculous.

 

Monopoly is another good example of a game played between friends and different rules are often used. The monopoly game I play with my family at my house doesn't keep you from playing strictly by the MAONA Rules (Monopoly Association Of North America), and we'll both have fun doing it..

We might have minor rule differences in Monopoly, but I wouldn't expect to capture your hotel on Marvin Gardens with my rook. Again, minor versus the ridiculous.

 

A line should definitely be drawn in the case where something has a negative impact on other players (stealing the cache container, moving the cache to a better place, logging your find with spoilers, etc.). But if someone wants to log a find twice, log a find that a friend actually found, log their own cache as a find, or some other benign logging practice, as long as the cache owner accepts it I just can't get worked up enough to care.

Maybe we have different lines. I think others have their own lines too, but are reluctant to draw them in the sand for fear of provoking an attack.

 

I love my numbers, but don't care about (almost) anyone else's.

Almost anyone else's? :mad:

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I agree that logs where there wasn't even a visit to the cache are foul because they can give people bad information that they may use to plan their day. But the case where the person who signed the log was not the person who normally uses the account -- I really cannot for the life of me see why anyone other than the hider cares. And I truly believe that the IRS, or Jesus, or the guy's wife, or his boss, needn't worry themselves over it. If deception was his intent, he would not have said what really happened in the log.

 

Comparing a competition-free (at its core), low-cost, family activity to a sport with an international rule governing organization, TV deals, and premium entry fees doesn't compel me to change my mind. Mini-golf is a very good comparison. Not real golf.

 

So my answer is, No, if anything is damaging geocaching and its integrity, questionable logs are not it.

 

Edit to add: I also question whether the number of these fake logs is anywhere near significant. How about everyone keep track of the fake logs they receive and report their ratio to good logs here in six months. I'll even agree to start auditing if anyone's in.

Edited by Dinoprophet
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I agree that logs where there wasn't even a visit to the cache are foul because they can give people bad information that they may use to plan their day. But the case where the person who signed the log was not the person who normally uses the account -- I really cannot for the life of me see why anyone other than the hider cares. And I truly believe that the IRS, or Jesus, or the guy's wife, or his boss, needn't worry themselves over it. If deception was his intent, he would not have said what really happened in the log.

 

Comparing a competition-free (at its core), low-cost, family activity to a sport with an international rule governing organization, TV deals, and premium entry fees doesn't compel me to change my mind. Mini-golf is a very good comparison. Not real golf.

 

So my answer is, No, if anything is damaging geocaching and its integrity, questionable logs are not it.

 

Edit to add: I also question whether the number of these fake logs is anywhere near significant. How about everyone keep track of the fake logs they receive and report their ratio to good logs here in six months. I'll even agree to start auditing if anyone's in.

 

Thanks for the offer, however I won't be able to participate at this time. Good luck.

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When geocaching becomes an activity described by the majority as "using your computer to find locations on earth and write a note saying you were there,...oh, and maybe occasionally actually visiting the site", then it will be a lot harder to convince people that geocaching is fun. I realize many will still actually visit the caches, but geocaching will have lost a lot of credibility.
One of the things that makes me think this concern about degradation is alarmist is that I'd say we're a L O N G way from it being the majority of cachers logging finds without actually being at the site. I'd say the number is always going to be very very small, and most cacher owners will never have a cache fake logged.

 

I analogize false logs to kicking and throwing the golf ball - ridiculous.
Golfers that kick and throw the ball are probably wasting their money, but certainly not doing anything to harm the game of golf overall.

 

We might have minor rule differences in Monopoly, but I wouldn't expect to capture your hotel on Marvin Gardens with my rook. Again, minor versus the ridiculous.
If we did decide to introduce such ridiculous rules to the game in my house, would it still change the way you play at your house? No matter how ridiculous I got with it, as long as you were able to play your game in your house the way you want I'm sure you'd still have fun. My ridiculous rook wouldn't keep you from keeping your hotel on Marvin Gardens, so what do you care? And I also don't think my ridiculous rook will harm the name of Monopoly to the rest of the world.

 

I think others have their own lines too, but are reluctant to draw them in the sand for fear of provoking an attack.
I'd say their thin skin is hurting the game more than the false loggers.

 

I love my numbers, but don't care about (almost) anyone else's.
Almost anyone else's? :mad:
Correct. I like to follow the numbers of my family members, my friends, and sometimes use numbers to judge DNFs, but other than that I don't really care if you (or anyone in Germany) inflate numbers or not.
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I certainly do not have your experience as I've only been caching just under a year but I do have to ask this:

 

Why does it matter to you? This game as far as I have experienced is one that will be as different to each cacher as is a snow flake different from a cow!

 

It bothers you that some cachers go after virtuals from their recliner? That someone else logs for them? They post a find on a cache in a different town?

 

I just don't get how this can effect you in any way? To me, the thrill is in the find and I often pass up virtuals and Earthcaches if there is a traditional nearby. Does this make a non participant?

 

Just let it go. It doesn't hurt anyone but the logger. This is a game isn't it?

 

Personally, I am more offended by arrogance and attitude than by someone out having fun.

 

If I were you, I'd be more upset with the one liner log entries that consist of nothing but TFTH ot TFTC, but even there, that would only apply to the caches I've placed.

 

Maybe you are looking at this game/hobby/activity/sport as something it's not?

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My argument above that the bigger problem is those who find caches and don't log online was supposed to make a point.

 

The people who find caches and don't log online are not sitting at home not loging their finds in front of a computer. They are going out to find caches. They are finding caches. They are even signing the physical log book in the cache. They know that the activity of geocaching has nothing to do with logging your find online.

 

If you wish to confuse what people do online with the activity of geocaching then you should do like me and cross out names in the physical log that didn't log online. Otherwise, just accept that some people will use this website to do things you don't consider geocaching.

 

If you wish to log your geocaching experiences online, the website provides a means for you to do so which is not impacted by the fact that others use it for something else. No one is requiring you to enter false logs. The intentional armchair virtuals can easily be skipped if you don't believe this is geocaching, and those where there is still something to find can be visited and logged by meeting the posted requirements. If you send a friend to find a cache in another city to retrieve some travel bugs, you can log a note or in fact you can just grab the bugs without a log if you want. If you looked and didn't find the cache, you can log a DNF even when the owner says "go ahead and log a find because you looked in the right place". There may be a problem with a few cache owners who will in fact delete a legitimate log - either because you didn't meet their additional logging requirement or perhaps just because they don't like you. Since you know you found these caches, you can just ignore them and remember to add them back into you numbers if that is important to you.

 

Of course, when someone relies on the "false" logs to plan their geocaching, it does have an effect on others. I would say that of the three examples, only the case of "logging caches they happen to pass within a mile of on a road trip without even getting out of their car" is really annoying. If the cache is actually missing, claiming a find like this could lead someone like briansnat's friend to waste gas driving to look for the cache. Actual bogus logs like this should be deleted. But cases where the person is clearly armchair logging a virtual generally aren't this bad, and logging when someone else found the cache for you is actually doing a service to the person who was waiting to see if the cache was still there before looking.

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One thing I've noticed about geocachers is that they seem to spend more time worrying about how others play the game than how they play it themselves.

 

I think it's just part of the demographic of people who geocache, or maybe the subset of geocachers who post on internet forums?

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Does everyone on these forums really live in a different world of geocaching than we do here in the Near North?

 

I see so many threads, replies to threads and general condescensions surrounding the subject of false logs that it makes my skin crawl. Can this really be happening to our sport, hobby, or whatever you want to call it?

 

In our little world way up here, we have no such entity as a false log despoiling the fun we have placing and finding caches. Perhaps, like so many other things such as mass murders, spontaneous riots, or terrorist bombings, we are missing out on something else that sounds like so much fun to complain about.

 

 

You did notice the original poster is from the "near north", didn't you? :mad:

 

You're probably correct about false log despoiling, but I have noticed that GCABA1 is loaded with "Greetings from Germany" type logs. :mad:

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but I have noticed that GCABA1 is loaded with "Greetings from Germany" type logs. :mad:

Have you ever counted the number of "Germany" in all 1110 Found logs? There are 17 occurences of the word Germany. I just scanned them and found 9 obvious false logs plus 2 that may be questionable (visited the place earlier, before started caching). So it's 11 out of 1110.

You call 0.99% loaded? :mad:

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One thing I've noticed about geocachers is that they seem to spend more time worrying about how others play the game than how they play it themselves.

 

I think it's just part of the demographic of people who geocache, or maybe the subset of geocachers who post on internet forums?

 

Well said. Who cares how others spend there time geocaching. I enjoy the way I do it and I don't sweat how the others play there game. The way you play will always be different than how the other guy does it.

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There's no "trend"> Geocaching hasn't been around long enough for human nature to have evolved since its inception.

 

There have always been cache maggots, arm chair loggers of virts and physical caches and others who cache elsewhere along a continuum of caching behavior. The absolute numbers are up, as the the number of caches and cachers have increased.

 

The only thing about the game that has changed is cache scarcity/density. That has altered the game. But it's not degradation, or some kind of ethical dilemma, it's just change. And the game has opened up in many ways to many more players. Something for everyone.

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but I have noticed that GCABA1 is loaded with "Greetings from Germany" type logs. :D

Have you ever counted the number of "Germany" in all 1110 Found logs? There are 17 occurences of the word Germany. I just scanned them and found 9 obvious false logs plus 2 that may be questionable (visited the place earlier, before started caching). So it's 11 out of 1110.

You call 0.99% loaded? :)

 

Oh, it's only recently (within the last year) been discovered as a "googleable" virtual, those numbers will go way up in the future. :mad:

 

By the way, I count 25+ bogus European armchair logs.

 

By the way again, I couldn't care less. I'm familiar with it because I live 10 miles from it. :mad:

Edited by TheWhiteUrkel
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but I have noticed that GCABA1 is loaded with "Greetings from Germany" type logs. ;)

Have you ever counted the number of "Germany" in all 1110 Found logs? There are 17 occurences of the word Germany. I just scanned them and found 9 obvious false logs plus 2 that may be questionable (visited the place earlier, before started caching). So it's 11 out of 1110.

You call 0.99% loaded? ;)

 

Scanning the log file for occurrences of the word Germany is not a valid method for obtaining the number of armchair logs. The number of such logs is considerably higher (logs of the type "Greetings from XY" are not the only ones to be considered, and there are several regions/countries to be considered for XY).

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne
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Welcome to "Geocaching Version B."

<snip>

I could go on and on, but most of these things have ruined the hobby for me. Now I waste half of my spare time researching caches that don't take me to parking lots, housing tracts, dumps, bum outhouses, pickle parks, and any other place where you have to ask yourself, "Why the hell would a geocachers share this place with me?"

+1 for me too, Kit. My only caching now is to visit states I haven't yet lit up on my "states cached" map and snag one or two in each, and to still occasionally carry and log TBs during my business travels (and I've even cut back on that once-fun part of the game, now that I've gotten more than a couple of Emails b*tching at me for logging a TB properly but having the temerity move it in a different direction from "goal" (oh the humanity!)). That's pretty much it for me now.

 

Thanks for nothing, "mass market". ;)

Edited by drat19
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but I have noticed that GCABA1 is loaded with "Greetings from Germany" type logs. :lol:

Have you ever counted the number of "Germany" in all 1110 Found logs? There are 17 occurences of the word Germany. I just scanned them and found 9 obvious false logs plus 2 that may be questionable (visited the place earlier, before started caching). So it's 11 out of 1110.

You call 0.99% loaded? :lol:

 

Scanning the log file for occurrences of the word Germany is not a valid method for obtaining the number of armchair logs. The number of such logs is considerably higher (logs of the type "Greetings from XY" are not the only ones to be considered, and there are several regions/countries to be considered for XY).

 

Oh, my fault. I did mention "Greetings from Germany". ;) It was only an observation of a cache local to me anyways. I have a much better understanding of European armchair logging with some recent threads, and am convinced it's mainly due to the language barrier, guidelines not available in German (or other European languages), and everyone doing it because they surf each others profiles, and see other cachers doing it. Y'all can do whatever you want to. ;)

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One thing I've noticed about geocachers is that they seem to spend more time worrying about how others play the game than how they play it themselves.

 

I think it's just part of the demographic of people who geocache, or maybe the subset of geocachers who post on internet forums?

 

Dead On!

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I am proposing that cache owners who agree with the premise of physically visiting the cache location, do their part to enforce it - don’t allow false logs on your caches, and don’t be embarrassed to enforce this basic notion of geocaching.

I have deleted false logs on my caches, and will do so again if necessary. But such cases have not come up often for me.

 

I have (both in private discussions and in these forums) strongly discouraged the practice of armchair logging.

 

I believe that geocaching has changed, is changing, and will continue to change. Feel free to swap the words 'has changed' with your own words (such as 'has improved', 'has evolved', 'has degraded', 'has been ruined', 'is doomed' ... ) as best suits your personal observations.

 

I do not believe the sky is falling.

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A line should definitely be drawn in the case where something has a negative impact on other players (stealing the cache container, moving the cache to a better place, logging your find with spoilers, etc.). But if someone wants to log a find twice, log a find that a friend actually found, log their own cache as a find, or some other benign logging practice, as long as the cache owner accepts it I just can't get worked up enough to care.

 

Wait a minute...I thought you said there was NO integrity in geocaching? ;)

 

Generally, I agree, I am not personally going to get worked up over how others log finds...play the game the way you want, but conversely people logging "out of the norm" have to accept that log owner's have the final say.

 

Conversely, I don't criticize people for supporting integrity in the game. If it's their preference that the game have standards that's also their prerogative. They just need to accept that it's never going to be a purist game.

 

At some point we all generally have a line to draw somewhere...

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There was a false logging issue I became aware of a while back - may even still be an issue, I don't know. I can't comprehend why anybody would stoop so low, so I quit trying to follow the saga.

 

Long story short, individuals would together log caches they hadn't found - lots of them - amongst a few caches they did find, in an effort to massively increase their numbers (because don't you know, you get worshipped as a caching god when you have lots of finds??)

Result - much fawning over them, events to congratulate on the big numbers (probably there were a few golden ammo cans presented), blah blah blah

 

Further result - the false logging was discovered. One publicly apologized and voluntarily removed their portion of the false logs, at the same time outing other false logger. Other never said anything about it, and as far as I know continued to cache.

 

What exactly is the benefit of this type of behavior, for anyone? "Cheating" yourself, the cache owner, and other cachers is neither comendable nor impressive, makes no sense, and doesn't accomplish squat.

 

I just don't get it. ;)

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Wait a minute...I thought you said there was NO integrity in geocaching? ;)

 

Generally, I agree, I am not personally going to get worked up over how others log finds...play the game the way you want, but conversely people logging "out of the norm" have to accept that log owner's have the final say.

 

Conversely, I don't criticize people for supporting integrity in the game. If it's their preference that the game have standards that's also their prerogative. They just need to accept that it's never going to be a purist game.

 

At some point we all generally have a line to draw somewhere...

 

It would be nice if there was a recognized branch of geocaching where everyone plays the same game, by the same rules. Consistency would be much appreciated by those of us that prefer "black & white," versus the "rainbow" of "play game the way you want."

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For me, the price of gas is degrading geocaching the most.

Man, don't i agree with you on this. Hey, i think this is the 2nd time this week i've agreed with you! ;)

 

On topic, the OP stated a concern that the practice of false logging helped degrade geocaching. I don't really see it as being detrimental to the hobby but i will say that it helps me to make a determination on what i think of you as a person. It doesn't matter if it's golf, monopoly, or geocaching,,, If you're an adult, then honesty and integrity are important to me. There are many things in geocaching that are "iffy" and that allow each person to play differently from one another. But logging false finds is simply lying and if i encounter this, then i look at that person more negatively and certainly won't look at him or her the same as i do everyone else... ;)

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It would be nice if there was a recognized branch of geocaching where everyone plays the same game, by the same rules. Consistency would be much appreciated by those of us that prefer "black & white," versus the "rainbow" of "play game the way you want."

 

I agree...I would be attracted to a site that raised the bar. But I wouldn't want it to be so overloaded with purism that there was leniency for reasonable policy exceptions.

Edited by egami
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For me, the price of gas is degrading geocaching the most.

Man, don't i agree with you on this. Hey, i think this is the 2nd time this week i've agreed with you! ;)

 

On topic, the OP stated a concern that the practice of false logging helped degrade geocaching. I don't really see it as being detrimental to the hobby but i will say that it helps me to make a determination on what i think of you as a person. It doesn't matter if it's golf, monopoly, or geocaching,,, If you're an adult, then honesty and integrity are important to me. There are many things in geocaching that are "iffy" and that allow each person to play differently from one another. But logging false finds is simply lying and if i encounter this, then i look at that person more negatively and certainly won't look at him or her the same as i do everyone else... ;)

I agree with this. I probably have more lax standards re logging than many do, but you have to at least be there!

 

As to the OP, no, it's not degrading the game, in my experience it's mostly a forum flurry and not often done... I know quite a few geocachers and only two (that I know of) do 'armchair logging'. I think I am right in saying that one of those quit doing it and deleted all their logs that they hadn't actually found.

 

I have run across a few others in the past but I think they've all lost interest (or been shamed) and dropped out of the game.

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At what point do these new iterations of the sport change the it to the point where calling it geocaching becomes absurd?

 

When early soccer players started picking up the ball and running with it, it was fun, but it was no longer soccer. Hence the birth of rugby.

 

I can go out on the golf course and throw the ball instead of hitting it with a club. It might even be a lot of fun, but it would be ridiculous to call it golf. I can say I'm golfing all I want, but I would look like an idiot to other golfers if I did. They would be right to point out that I'm not really golfing. Of course KBI, Mushtang and others would chastise them and defend my right to call my version of the game golf.

 

I certainly have the right to call it whatever I want. If I want to go kayaking and call it horseback riding, that is my right. Doesn't make it true.

 

Geocaching should be a pretty simple and straightforward sport. Hide a cache and post the coordinates on the internet so others can find it. The bastardization of geocaching has made it unrecognizable in some cases. Armchair logging, pocket caches, retirement cards, etc... They all maybe an absolute blast, but they ain't geocaching. Perhaps participants of these offshoot games can create their own websites and leave www.geocaching.com for geocachers.

Edited by briansnat
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One thing I've noticed about geocachers is that they seem to spend more time worrying about how others play the game than how they play it themselves.

 

I think it's just part of the demographic of people who geocache, or maybe the subset of geocachers who post on internet forums?

Yeah, that is pretty good.

 

I spend my geocaching time...wait for it...Geocaching!!!

 

Normally, I spend my Forum time...wait for it...laughing!!! If I do have something serious to say I try to clearly state it is my opinion only...nothing more...use or don't use it as you see fit.

 

Besides...I already know there are pleanty of things I do that alot of people don't like ;)

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