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Are we allowing the degradation of geocaching?


Cedar Grove Seekers
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In my short time geocaching I have observed quite a few behaviors that degrade the integrity of the game:

 

team caching (where one person makes the find, but the entire team takes credit) :laughing:

etc.

 

 

I don't see the problem with this one, jmho. the entire "Team" was working on finding it, one person was lucky. if the rest of the "team" was sitting in the car or at home, well sure then there's a problem. jmho

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The simple answer is yes, and according to the mods any other opinion is seemingly out of line...

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=183873

I gotta say that I wouldn't really consider that a false log. Short of that friend setting up his own account, or the logger setting up a puppet account with only one find, this seems like the simplest way to record the situation that happened. The cache was found. The find was recorded on the cache page. Esentially the friend has become a member of the loggers team. Big deal. It's not like he tried to deceive anyone. The whole story is right there in the log. Maybe the friend was willing to do the favor, but didn't want to take the added steps. is every team of more than one supposed to set up a sepperate account for each, to log the finds where they were not all present. Don't be ridiculous

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In my short time geocaching I have observed quite a few behaviors that degrade the integrity of the game:

 

team caching (where one person makes the find, but the entire team takes credit) :laughing:

etc.

 

 

I don't see the problem with this one, jmho. the entire "Team" was working on finding it, one person was lucky. if the rest of the "team" was sitting in the car or at home, well sure then there's a problem. jmho

I do, I recently saw this at an event. I was talking to a cacher and a freind of his walk up an told them they had signed his name to a cache that was close to the event so that he would need to look for it.

 

Some teams spit up an go in seperate directions and sign each others names.

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There was a thread about a "Peter Pan" series or something that was interesting. Apparently, a team is gathered from around the world. Someone in the UK grabs a cache and the entire team, even 1000's a miles away log it.

 

They are very up front about what they are doing...

 

1) Is what they are doing considered "Geocaching"? Obviously Not. They are playing their own game.

2) Should it be allowed on "Geocaching.com"? I don't think so. It's not geocaching.

3) Is allowing them to play their game hurting geocaching.com? Not in a significant way

4) Is allowing them to play their game hurting me? Not at all

5) Do I think its stupid and I would never do it myself? Absolutely!

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There was a thread about a "Peter Pan" series or something that was interesting. Apparently, a team is gathered from around the world. Someone in the UK grabs a cache and the entire team, even 1000's a miles away log it.

 

They are very up front about what they are doing...

 

1) Is what they are doing considered "Geocaching"? Obviously Not. They are playing their own game.

"cooperative" caches are a popular variation that fits under the definition of a mystery/unknown cache. It involves cachers in different cities finding different caches - often these are set up as multi-caches. Cacher A in city X finds the first stage, mails the coordinates to cacher B in city Y who finds the second stage, who then mails the coordinates of the final to back to cacher A. Usually the cache owner alllows both cachers to log a find.

2) Should it be allowed on "Geocaching.com"? I don't think so. It's not geocaching.

It's no less geocaching than a challenge cache or a cache with additional logging requirements. What bothers the puritans is that only one of the cachers signs the log in the final cache. The simple and easy rule of "You must sign the log to claim a find" is violated and some people are uncomfortable with this.

3) Is allowing them to play their game hurting geocaching.com? Not in a significant way

Most people who have done one of these caches would say it is beneficial for geocaching. It promotes a sense of community among geocachers. Finding a partner in another a city to work on these caches provides a way to make new friends. It is refreshing to find creative ideas for geocaches that are allowed within the guidelines.

4) Is allowing them to play their game hurting me? Not at all

So why did you post this?

5) Do I think its stupid and I would never do it myself? Absolutely!

While the cache owners can allow all the people who cooperate on one of these caches to claim a find, they can't force a puritan to log a find for the caches when they haven't personally visited the cache and signed the log. In fact, in nearly all the "alternative" games where cache owners allow you to claim a find without having to sign the log, a puritan can still sign the log (or verify they visited a virtual cache) and claim a find. They can choose to cooperate with a another cacher and not log a find unless they were the one to find the final cache. No one is being forced to play a game they don't feel comfortable playing.

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TFTH as fake log also says "This cahe is here and in good enough shape to find". If that's not the case and you waste yoru time seeking a cache that's MIA tha'ts a problem.
A vague bogus example that would be impossible to prove even if it ever did happen. (For some reason I am posting this for about the tenth time). If the cache is missing, you have NO LOG BOOK to prove it went missing BEFORE the last person logged it rather then AFTER. It is impossible to prove their log was fake!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This example seems to be the only leg anyone stands on trying to show fake logs cause problems yet it's an example that would be impossible to prove if it happened.

 

Have you even looked for a cache with several previous DNF's that sounded like it had a good chance of not being there? What if the DNF's were FAKE log entires???? How could you prove that????????? So now it's only FIND fake logs that are problems but DNF fake logs are not? And how would you EVER prove a DNF was fake???? And fake DNF logs might keep people from going for an existing cache that's NOT missing. But since you couldn't prove someone DIDN'T find a cache then you'd never prove the log was fake.

 

I think you have a better chance of winning the lottery then seeking a cache that was missing but had a fake log last.

Interesting that you should mention the topic of possibly faked or questionable DNFs, for there are rumors that the short-lived (the find was ultimately redacted about 12 hours after it was logged) hoax find by a Brit cacher of Chomolangma earlier today was followed, in short order, by a slightly questionable DNF log entry. :)

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Interesting that you should mention the topic of possibly faked or questionable DNFs, for there are rumors that the short-lived (the find was ultimately redacted about 12 hours after it was logged) hoax find by a Brit cacher of Chomolangma earlier today was followed, in short order, by a slightly questionable DNF log entry. :)

I have never visited the longitude of that cache – but I have been to its latitude AND its altitude.

 

Maybe I should claim 2/3 of a smiley along with 1/3 of a DNF?

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Interesting that you should mention the topic of possibly faked or questionable DNFs, for there are rumors that the short-lived (the find was ultimately redacted about 12 hours after it was logged) hoax find by a Brit cacher of Chomolangma earlier today was followed, in short order, by a slightly questionable DNF log entry. :)

I have never visited the longitude of that cache – but I have been to its latitude AND its altitude.

 

Maybe I should claim 2/3 of a smiley along with 1/3 of a DNF?

I fully support your decision to file the 2/3 smiley and 1/3 DNF, and, upon review of my own physical travel records, I discover that I have been -- via physical travel, rather than via my time-space portal -- to its altitude, and to its latitude and to its longitude, and in fact, rather recently, and so I likely qualify for a 92.5% smiley.

 

Interesting how your posts always sound much like those of CaptRussell. Very odd! :)

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I have never visited the longitude of that cache – but I have been to its latitude AND its altitude.

 

Maybe I should claim 2/3 of a smiley along with 1/3 of a DNF?

I fully support your decision to file the 2/3 smiley and 1/3 DNF, and, upon review of my own physical travel records, I discover that I have been -- via physical travel, rather than via my time-space portal -- to its altitude, and to its latitude and to its longitude, and in fact, rather recently, and so I likely qualify for a 92.5% smiley.

Thanks for reminding me of the 'time' dimension of time/space. How careless of me to forget my relativity.

 

I have existed, in time, during all of the same moments that the cache has existed. I will therefore need to change my log, if I ever decide to bother logging the cache, to 3/4 of a smiley and 1/4 of a DNF.

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I have placed a few caches and I notice that sometimes when a group visits my caches on a "cache run" and when they log a "find", they all take credit for the find and sometimes the cache container is left open and contents are strewn about. These are cachers that have no concern for the ethics of our activity. As the previous person noted "what are you gonna do?" If you are a concerned geocacher...just take care of your business and be a concerned geocacher and let it go. You know that you are doing the right thing. Happy caching and travel a smooth road. And yes....All my "finds" are found by me and logged by me. I cache alone except my wife caches with me from time to time....If, I hear those words " I found it". I will log that cache as "found". Heck, ethics are great, but I can't let my wife take the credit...can I?

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How hard is it, folks? If you discover someone has logged a false find re: one of your hides, bumps them! Report them. Watch for them. I would guess, most likely, that they are not premium members...just a guess, mind-you, and are just jerkin' everybody's chains! Who cares? I NEVER check my cache log sheets, except before recycling one from an archived cache. I guess some folks like to be meticulous. Me? No way. I just like to have some personal fun!

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TFTH as fake log also says "This cahe is here and in good enough shape to find". If that's not the case and you waste yoru time seeking a cache that's MIA tha'ts a problem.
A vague bogus example that would be impossible to prove even if it ever did happen. (For some reason I am posting this for about the tenth time). If the cache is missing, you have NO LOG BOOK to prove it went missing BEFORE the last person logged it rather then AFTER. It is impossible to prove their log was fake!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This example seems to be the only leg anyone stands on trying to show fake logs cause problems yet it's an example that would be impossible to prove if it happened.

 

Have you even looked for a cache with several previous DNF's that sounded like it had a good chance of not being there? What if the DNF's were FAKE log entires???? How could you prove that????????? So now it's only FIND fake logs that are problems but DNF fake logs are not? And how would you EVER prove a DNF was fake???? And fake DNF logs might keep people from going for an existing cache that's NOT missing. But since you couldn't prove someone DIDN'T find a cache then you'd never prove the log was fake.

 

I think you have a better chance of winning the lottery then seeking a cache that was missing but had a fake log last.

Interesting that you should mention the topic of possibly faked or questionable DNFs, for there are rumors that the short-lived (the find was ultimately redacted about 12 hours after it was logged) hoax find by a Brit cacher of Chomolangma earlier today was followed, in short order, by a slightly questionable DNF log entry. :laughing:
Imagine how much of a coincidence it would have been if iMPG's post wasn't six months old.
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Check this out:

 

Virtuals "found" by The_Tom.

 

Nothing to see here. :) "Tom" is from Germany, and just quickly surfing the logs of some of them, there are tons of logs by armchair loggers who never visited these virtuals. This is not to say every geocacher in Germany sits around Googling virtuals, but a high percentage of armchair virtual logs happen there, often with the text "Greetings from Germany" in their cache logs.

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I don't necessarily think of this as degrading the game. It's not a competition after all, right? I guess in a way I'm guilty of this myself. My rat Guinness has a geocaching account because he goes a lot of places with me, including caching, unless the weather's bad. We thought it would be cute for Guinness to "find" caches and to have his picture taken at each cache he goes to with us. Even though he only has 19 finds, I guess this could be construed as "fake" finds. :) We just thought it was fun, but maybe we should stop. (Also, when ripping me to pieces please be gentle... )

 

-Rozie

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I just had a great week (and weekend) of caching after getting back into this activity. I won't argue what this activity qualifies as (game, sport, hobby, past time, waste of time (according to a friend of mine)).

 

I would simply remind everyone to use the search tools to find the types of caches you are interested in (I personally avoid micros for a number of reasons) and then go find them. While you walk from the LZ to GZ enjoy the walk. Enjoy your company. Enjoy your surroundings. Enjoy the experience.

 

I hope everyone logs their caches. I hope they do so honestly and in a timely manner. However if they don't, they don't. I go caching as a way to enjoy my time off. When I start worrying about how others conduct themselves more than enjoying the activity - I'll find something else to do with my free time. I work (and worry about work) more than enough without extending that type of worry into my leisure time.

 

The OP questions whether we are allowing the degradation of geocaching. . . I say if we worry ourselves over trivial 'false logs' or other 'unsportsmanlike' conduct then that fretting is actually what leads to that degradation, not the false logging or other undesired activities.

 

Oh - and GO Guinness! - I'd take my cat Bubba if I could and he'd have an account :) (yeah - his name is Bubba. . . and he could probably take most of us in only seconds :) )

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I've not seen a lot of false logs, but what has become both common and irriating is people sharing the coordinates to the final stages of multi-caches and the solution to puzzle caches. I think this practice also degrades the game.

 

i wouldn't think it would degrade the game if they shared the puzzle solutions with me. :)

I can't figure out puzzle caches for anything!!!

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I don't necessarily think of this as degrading the game. It's not a competition after all, right? I guess in a way I'm guilty of this myself. My rat Guinness has a geocaching account because he goes a lot of places with me, including caching, unless the weather's bad. We thought it would be cute for Guinness to "find" caches and to have his picture taken at each cache he goes to with us. Even though he only has 19 finds, I guess this could be construed as "fake" finds. :) We just thought it was fun, but maybe we should stop. (Also, when ripping me to pieces please be gentle... )

 

-Rozie

 

Go for it!! I don't see any problem with your rat having a geo-account!!

That's really easy- definately not hurting anyone (not even your rat) and you are having a good time of it. What the heck?

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Check this out:

 

Virtuals "found" by The_Tom.

 

Wow, these aren't hard to find are they?

Lots of extraterrestrials in this game. I had no idea.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.asp...7e&ul=Rokop

 

This guy was in Belgium, Utah and Hong Kong the same day. Two days before that it was Texas, New York, michigan and Lousiana. But those are some of his slow days.

 

Wonder if I can catch a ride on that ship??

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In my short time geocaching I have observed quite a few behaviors that degrade the integrity of the game:

 

false logs

false discoveries of trackable items

false DNFs

arm chair caching

team caching (where one person makes the find, but the entire team takes credit) :(

etc.

 

What are you gonna do? :huh:

 

i am new to this and after reading your post is it wrong my girlfriend and i often cache together and when we do we both take credit for the find, but when we are alone we dont both take credit?

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team caching (where one person makes the find, but the entire team takes credit)

i am new to this and after reading your post is it wrong my girlfriend and i often cache together and when we do we both take credit for the find, but when we are alone we dont both take credit?

No... not at all. What that was referring to is a team that splits up, each finding different caches, and then each team member logging all of them, even though they never even saw many of the caches. Edited by knowschad
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So what new has caused the degradation of geocaching?

 

Ammo can inflation combined with the increasing use of digital photography making film canisters also scarce (though I'm not holding my breath on that one just yet) are creating a state of flux giving cache containers a fuzzy future.

 

Magnetic keyholders are still available in abundance. So are nanos. But you know what I always say about them: thank goodness they cost a few dollars, and have to be mail ordered. :huh:

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The only real problem with false logs as far as I'm concerned is for cache maintenance issues. If one of my caches gets a DNF I tend to check the number of caches the DNFinder has. If it is a low number I wait to see if others DNF. If it is a high number then I make a greater effort to check the cache to make sure its still there. But then I guess a false logger probably wouldn't log a DNF anyway.

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I don't necessarily think of this as degrading the game. It's not a competition after all, right? I guess in a way I'm guilty of this myself. My rat Guinness has a geocaching account because he goes a lot of places with me, including caching, unless the weather's bad. We thought it would be cute for Guinness to "find" caches and to have his picture taken at each cache he goes to with us. Even though he only has 19 finds, I guess this could be construed as "fake" finds. :blink: We just thought it was fun, but maybe we should stop. (Also, when ripping me to pieces please be gentle... )

 

-Rozie

 

Go for it!! I don't see any problem with your rat having a geo-account!!

That's really easy- definately not hurting anyone (not even your rat) and you are having a good time of it. What the heck?

Just don't file taxes for the rat! A friend of mine filed taxes for his dog for years, put the mutt through college, then died before the IRS caught on, so I guess he "won".

 

If a dog can collect tax returns I suppose a rat can geocache! :laughing:

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One thing I've noticed about geocachers is that they seem to spend more time worrying about how others play the game than how they play it themselves.

 

I think it's just part of the demographic of people who geocache, or maybe the subset of geocachers who post on internet forums?

Yeah, that is pretty good.

 

I spend my geocaching time...wait for it...Geocaching!!!

 

Normally, I spend my Forum time...wait for it...laughing!!! If I do have something serious to say I try to clearly state it is my opinion only...nothing more...use or don't use it as you see fit.

 

Besides...I already know there are pleanty of things I do that alot of people don't like :D

:D

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One thing I've noticed about geocachers is that they seem to spend more time worrying about how others play the game than how they play it themselves.

 

I think it's just part of the demographic of people who geocache, or maybe the subset of geocachers who post on internet forums?

Yeah, that is pretty good.

 

I spend my geocaching time...wait for it...Geocaching!!!

 

Normally, I spend my Forum time...wait for it...laughing!!! If I do have something serious to say I try to clearly state it is my opinion only...nothing more...use or don't use it as you see fit.

 

Besides...I already know there are pleanty of things I do that alot of people don't like :D

:D

I think there is a bigger problem then false logs that affects us all. In my short time seince Oct. I have noticed a lot of "raiders" instead of "traiders". Mostly of geocoins. When you get to the cache the coin is gone, no log in weeks and no logging of the trackables! It makes me wonder what the point of sending out a trackable knowing some one is going to snach it, not log it and keep it. Anybody else seen this? This is my first time on a forem and I am a little lost so please send replies to Gonzomini@gmail.com as I am not sure how to navigate forems yet!

Edited by Gonzomini
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***I do not. I have not. And I never will, audit the paper logs in my caches against the online logs. Never.***

 

Ditto

 

The cache is there for the hunting. People can do whatever they want...the true Geocachers will actually find it...the others can have their grandmother sign it for them...or just dream about it and log it from the comfort of your home.

 

All I ask is that you hide it again...whether Physically or Telepathically.

 

I agree, I have some 40 hides myself and see postings all the time where the log was not signed because they forgot a pencil or pen. I don't verify the finds nor will I ever. I see caching as a good walk in the woods or around town and the numbers of finds are just numbers. People can do what then want as long as they are considerate and replace the cache in good shape, repect property and others.

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