Not Logging A Find

[+Sarge104]

I was just recently on leave in Montana and had a blast at the state capital attending a geocaching chili cook off event. While there I was approached by a cache owner that needed a log replaced in one of their caches in Hawaii, they explained exactly where to find it and asked if I could stop by and replace the log. Of course I said yes, and after returning off of leave I made a run to said cache with a couple of friends. After replacing the log I left with my friends to do a bit more caching before logging on to the site to fill out my logs. A few days later the CO sends me an email thanking me for the log replacement and then sends another email letting me know that I could log a find if I so choose. I responded to this saying since I knew exactly where the cache was hid, and I was there to replace the log, that I allowed my friends the pleasure of the "find". Afterwards I went with them to find a few more caches around the area (I still cannot stop myself at one ) .

 

I'm very new to the sport, just breaking a hundred finds a few weeks ago. In the beginning I thought it to be okay to post a find log even if you were not able to sign the physical log (due to wet log, unable to open the cache, missing log, ect.), now I've set a rule for myself if the log(for a traditional cache) isn't signed I will not log it as found. I've started to show friends this sport and I believe it to be important that I show them what I think is the right way and protect the "find" against argument.

 

I would appreciate any comments on what rules, guidelines, fellow geocachers hold themselves to while on the hunt.

[+TeamGumbo]

If I find it, I log it.

 

A couple of times the physical log was unsignable, either because (a) it wasn't in there, or ( it was water-damaged. In the case of the missing log, I had some paper with me and a plastic bag. The other one I didn't have any paper with me, but made a note of that when I logged it online.

 

I take multiple pictures of all of my cache finds just in case there is ever a question of if I was actually there (I usually include my GPSr in at least one of the photos for verification).

 

In the case you mention, I would probably log that as a find, or at least make a note of the maintenance you performed.

Edited January 26, 2008 by VickersDavis

[+paleolith]

You are within the gray area as far as both gc.com and geocaching convention is concerned. Make your own rules within this area.

 

Personally I would log a find in case of either being directed to a cache or being unable to sign a wet log. In fact, particularly in these cases, since it's important to make a report on the condition (though of course in the latter case I would also log NM).

 

Now, if I don't actually find the cache, I don't log it just because I found the location -- even though for me visiting the location is the important thing.

 

Edward

[CoyoteRed]

... they explained exactly where to find it...

This is where I would have said, "Whoa! I want to find it! I don't have a problem with replacing the log, but let me try to find it on my own first." Not only do I still get the pleasure of the challenge of the hunt, but also there is no question about the find.

 

In this case, I'd have to go with my gut. Was the find pretty much already a slum-dunk even without the owner's input or is it a fair challenge? You're the one that has to live with it.

[+Isonzo Karst]

I've logged finds on caches that were damaged and the log wet/charred. I'll do that if the cache is clearly recognizable (burned ammo can) and I leave something with my sig on it. I don't log finds on the ? remains of micros or small caches (cracked lids, pieces of velcro, empty film cans). yeah, I *may* have found the cache, but it's not clear, and I may have found trash. And by the time the next cacher arrives it may be quite uncertain. Those are DNFs.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

If I can retrieve the cache, and open it, then I log a find. If the logbook is wet or missing then I will add my own, or leave my mark some way.

 

If I can see the cache, but not retrieve it (i.e stuck in ice, up in a tree), or if I can't open the cache (some have locks) then I will NOT log it.

 

If I can't find the cache then I'd NEVER consider logging it. Even if I strongly suspect it is gone, I will wait until it has been replaced. The idea of logging because I visited the spot, or throwing down a replacmeent cache, is NOT something I agree with or would ever do.

[+briansnat]

If I find the cache, I log a "Found it" (Unless there is an ALR, in which case I will only log it if I can fulfill that). If the log is unsignabe I'll insert a slip of paper with my initials, or a business card. If there is no pen, I'll use a stick dipped in mud, a soft stone and have even rubbed my thumb on grass and left a thumb print.

 

I won't log a find if I'm on a group hunt and I had no part in the search. If I'm at the tail end of the group and the cache is already out and being signed when I get there, I won't consider it a find.

 

If I'm part of the team and actively involved in the search, I'll log the find even if I'm not the person who actually discovered the cache.

 

I'd never log finds on my own caches, but have logged DNFs on them, if I couldn't find them while on a maint trip. I figure that is useful info to subsequent searchers.

[+BCandMsKitty]

In the case where you were directed to the cache by the owner, it would probably be a stretch to log it as a find. As for not being able to sign the log because the log was missing, or too wet, do as has been suggested. Leave some other paper, or something to log your visit. If that's not possible, and you really did find the cache, then I wouldl log it as a find, along with a "Needs Maintemance" note. As a cache owner, I would never object to this if legitimate. In fact, if I were to get a NM log, I would thank the sender and tell them to log it as a find if they hadn't! This in fact has happened to me, wherre the log was completely unuseable. I posted the NM log and the owner told me to go ahead with the find.

 

As much of an issue with me is people that don't enter a dnf log for whatever reason. If you try to find a cache and can't tell someone! It really won't reflect on their prowess as a searcher, even if it is a DOH! day! Much more important IMHO, to signal the cache owner of a potential problem. Also, I have put in some DNFs for some really dumb things on my part, and I hope the cache owner got a chuckle out of the log.

Edited January 26, 2008 by BC & MsKitty

[+Confucius' Cat]

I base whether or not I log on a number of criteria, some of which are subject to change without notice. But there is one hard-fast rule I adhere to:

 

I will never sign the physical log of a cache that i do not retrieve.

[+FireRef]

I feel that if I don't find the container, I can't claim a find. I also generally feel I need to sign the log in order to claim a find. The exceptions I make for myself for this are:

 

1) Log is physically unsignable

2) Something is preventing me from signing the log (like getting it out of the container)

 

Several times, I have left a signature item in the container if the log was unable to be signed for whatever reason. I feel this proves I was there. Only had to do this a few times in 900+ finds.

[+TotemLake]

If I don't sign the log, I don't log the find. Simple enough. Why does it have to be rife with condtions?

[+Sarge104]

Appreciate the comments guys .

[+briansnat]

If I don't sign the log, I don't log the find. Simple enough. Why does it have to be rife with condtions?

 

There are gray areas that some people feel warrant exceptions. Missing logbook and wet logbook come to mind. To me the point of the sport is to find the cache. It's geocaching, not geologging. The logbook is simply proof that you found it. If you can provide proof you found the cache in another way (e.g. leave business card, take photo) I have no problem with people logging a find. If it was my cache I would insist.

[+trailpuppy]

If I find the cache, I log a "Found it" (Unless there is an ALR, in which case I will only log it if I can fulfill that). If the log is unsignabe I'll insert a slip of paper with my initials, or a business card. If there is no pen, I'll use a stick dipped in mud, a soft stone and have even rubbed my thumb on grass and left a thumb print.

 

I won't log a find if I'm on a group hunt and I had no part in the search. If I'm at the tail end of the group and the cache is already out and being signed when I get there, I won't consider it a find.

 

If I'm part of the team and actively involved in the search, I'll log the find even if I'm not the person who actually discovered the cache.

 

I'd never log finds on my own caches, but have logged DNFs on them, if I couldn't find them while on a maint trip. I figure that is useful info to subsequent searchers.

 

Logging a DNF on your own cache.....sounds like an interesting story. Cache migration during owner maintenance check perhaps?

[+SunWeasels]

What if you can see the cache but not retrieve it? This has happened to me twice due to physical limitations. Both times a member of our group retrieved the cache, and we all signed the log. Had I been alone I could not have reached the cache to sign the log.

[+Miragee]

Welcome to the Forums!

 

When caching with a group, we all get the find, regardless of who found the cache first or who retrieved it from its hiding place . . . at least that is the way our local groups play the game. If I couldn't get to the cache for some reason when I was by myself, I would log a DNF.

[+briansnat]

What if you can see the cache but not retrieve it? This has happened to me twice due to physical limitations. Both times a member of our group retrieved the cache, and we all signed the log. Had I been alone I could not have reached the cache to sign the log.

 

That would be a DNF in my book. It's happened to me a few times. I had to come back later with the proper tools to retrieve it.

[+ironman114]

What if you can see the cache but not retrieve it? This has happened to me twice due to physical limitations. Both times a member of our group retrieved the cache, and we all signed the log. Had I been alone I could not have reached the cache to sign the log.

 

I have a cache that says in the description that if you can't make it to the cache location you can't log a find. It is designed to be physically strenuous.

 

Now if it was something like in a tree just out of finger reach and you are short, I wouldn't have a problem with having someone retrieve it for you.

[+triturtle]

My rule is that if I find it, I count it. That means holding it in my hand and opening it up. I have had a few instances where I wasn't prepared to cache and didn't have a pen/pencil. I figure if I have the log in my hand, that is as good as signing it.

 

Just my opinion, I know others say you have to sign the log to count it.

[+triturtle]

My rule is that if I find it, I count it. That means holding it in my hand and opening it up. I have had a few instances where I wasn't prepared to cache and didn't have a pen/pencil. I figure if I have the log in my hand, that is as good as signing it.

 

Just my opinion, I know others say you have to sign the log to count it.

[+tozainamboku]

I will never sign the physical log of a cache that i do not retrieve.

I often go caching with a group. I will sign the log whether I or someone else in the group retrieved the cache. I usually insist on seeing the cache in its hiding space much to the consternation of my caching buddies who just want to sign the log and move on to the next cache.

[+Renegade Knight]

You found the cache log it. The only thing different about the find from a normal one is that you had a better clue on where to look. Something that may not be available in the cache hint. However that wasnt' a sure thing. The cache could have been moved from that spot as they often are.

 

Call it a find. Signing the log is nothing more than simple verification of the find. It's not the find itself.

[+Bunganator]

For most humans, holding a log leaves fingerprints and skin cell for proof. If the owner is nitpicky enough to tell me I didn't find it if I didn't sign the log, he can at least take the time to verify my physical or DNA fingerprints

[+KJcachers]

to the OP...the cache owner offered you a find and you did him a favor. I say take the find and move on, it's only 1 number out of thousands to come!

[+plasmafamily]

I recently found a cache which I could not open. I have rheumatoid arthritis and was caching alone (I usually cache with my husband). I was prevented from signing the log because of my disease, not because the cache was supposed to be difficult to retrieve. I posted a note though instead of claiming a find though, because it is very likely I will return to the cache with my husband and have him open it for me. If that wasn't possible, I would claim a find as I actually had the cache in my hand, therefore I found it. If the cache owner needed proof, I could always describe the container and it's location to them. I would take a picture, but I don't carry any extra weight when I go out, my joints don't need that.

[+geomann1]

Very simple, if I actually found the cache I log it as a find. If I did not find it, I log it as a dnf.

 

The official rules are simple and have no formal requirements as far as logging:

 

Step 4 – The Find

Huzzah! You found the cache! Congratulations! Now what?

 

Usually you take an item and leave an item, and enter your name and experience you had into the log book. Some people prefer to just enter their name into the log book. It’s an accomplishment enough to locate the cache.

Make sure to seal the cache and place it back where you found it. If it had some rocks covering it, please replace them. It’s pretty straightforward.

Remember that waypoint we suggested you create where your car/trail was located? Use that now to get back! You’ll be glad you had it.

When you get home, email the person who hid the cache and let them know you found it! They’re always happy to know the condition of their cache and it’s nice to know that people are looking for them.

[+Jennifer&Dean]

Even with good directions it can still be hard to find a cache. Trust me, I've been on the phone with cache owners and practically holding the cache before I realized I actually had found it. (Was checking it was still there for them in addition to searching for it for a find.)

 

We vote for - return to the cache, find it, log it, and log a find.

OR- Wait for someone to log a DNF and go out to find it...

 

Finding a cache can be VERY easy sometimes. It doesn't hurt to log the find and makes the cache stop showing up as close to you. If the owner says Log, then in this case, you can log with no worries.

 

As many folks will say, play the game your way and set your own levels of playing. Because you were helping the owner, you got better location info than a normal cacher, but the karma you got for helping should offset anyone who has an issue with that.

 

It was great to meet you guys at the event!

Jennifer

[GPS-Hermit]

Either way is fine with me. I see no problem at all posting a log after finding the cache but not signing the log for whatever reason. Posting the log is very import to let others know it is still there and what the condition is. Your comments should tell a little story about your fun and what to watchout for - PI or Big Foot!

You can leave a note - instead of a find, if that is what you want but say something and try to be entertaining, informative,interesting!. Say something without Babbling!

[+Radnord]

Why geocache if you are not going to log your finds? This is not about vanity or bragging rights, it is about being able to track your progress and to know what caches you have already found. Also I feel it my duty to inform others and the owner that the cache is still there and what kind of shape it is in. I enjoy this part of the activity; there is nothing worse than searching for a cache that doesn't exist. If you are not going to geocache properly, don't geocache at all!

[CoyoteRed]

Why geocache if you are not going to log your finds? This is not about vanity or bragging rights, it is about being able to track your progress and to know what caches you have already found. Also I feel it my duty to inform others and the owner that the cache is still there and what kind of shape it is in. I enjoy this part of the activity; there is nothing worse than searching for a cache that doesn't exist. If you are not going to geocache properly, don't geocache at all!

"Properly?"

 

[+Viajero Perdido]

Here's an edge case: With the owner's consent I once replaced a cache that had gone missing, waaaay down in deepest Mexico. I would've loved to count that as a find, but didn't.

 

Also, if I'm with someone when they place a cache, I won't sign the logbook until I can make a return trip later.

[+Team Cotati]

The Team online logs every single physical cache which it opens. If there is a signable log inside, we sign that too.

 

Otherwise, we don't.....log a find.

Edited February 17, 2008 by Team Cotati

[+Prime Suspect]

If I come upon a spot with another geocacher already looking, and we team up to search, then I'll log it, regardless of who first spots it. But if I come upon them, they've already found it, and they hand it to me to log, I'll not log it on line. I didn't find it, didn't have an opportunity to find, so I don't think it should bump my find count.

[+Sagefox]

The Team online logs every single physical cache which it opens. If there is a signable log inside, we sign that too.

 

Otherwise, we don't.....log a find.

 

I agree. It is that simple.

 

The physical container opened, or when in the presence of it once it has been opened by others, is my interpretation of a find, regardless of what method or information was given to assist with fnding the container.

 

Signing the log is a form of proof of the visit. If we can't sign the log, can't leave something in the container or can't otherwise offer proof of the visit it does not negate the fact that we were there and had the cache in hand. Cache owners can decide if they require proof of that visit and can even delete the found log if they want to but that still does not negate the fact that the container was found. Most owners will not dispute a find when the on-line log sounds credible.

 

The physical container is what this game is all about. The relative ease or difficulty in finding the container is what makes this game interesting. Sometimes being told exactly where the container is is more fun than going through a complex puzzle or several multi-cache stages, but not always. And sometimes doing it the long way is more fun, but not always.

[+rixart]

Hi all.

I recently had a cache of mine "cleaned up" by a prisoner work crew in a county park. Just by chance, a local cacher was in the park, He had already solved the puzzle and saw the work crews and knew approximately where the cache was. He got permission to retrieve the cache and returned it to me. Thanks Stieet!

Not only did he have the cache in hand, but he prevented it's loss. I encouraged him to log it as a find. Yet, He still has not logged it as a find, because he wants to "find " it.

For all that, he is now mentioned on the cache page.

 

I also had somone write a unfriendly note about another cache that it was "not worth the smiley" and "will be put on my ignore list" . I thought they were very rude comments for somone who "didn't feel like bushwhacking".

I chose to ask them to delete their log or make it a DNF. They deleted it. Now, after much thought, I'm considering replacing their log quoted, as a note from me.

 

That's the honor system as it concerns Geocaching. To each his own.

Happy Trails!

Rixart

[+Sand-Man]

I don't want to sound stupid, but if the owner lived to far away to service the cache, isn't that against the rules? I think I read somewhere that you are supposed to live within a 50 mile radius... I'd love to put out a few near my home, which is about 800 miles away but I could not service them except for a few times a year.

[+Team Cotati]

I don't want to sound stupid, but if the owner lived to far away to service the cache, isn't that against the rules? I think I read somewhere that you are supposed to live within a 50 mile radius... I'd love to put out a few near my home, which is about 800 miles away but I could not service them except for a few times a year.

 

If I might ask, where do you live?

 

How many times a year would you think that you'd be making service, aka maintenance, visits?

Edited February 18, 2008 by Team Cotati

[+Clay4]

I have two stamps I use, one for regular and one for micros...they do a great job even if the logs are wet. Every once in a while I come across a cache that the log is TOO wet to remove or I don't have my tweezers with me to get it out. When this happens I take a picture of the cache with my personal geocoin. I always have my phone with me so it makes it easy. My coin glows in the dark so that is very handy for night caching. I use the picture taking method for all the virtual caches I go on. I usually put something in the post that I wasn't able to sign the log so I took a picture...I'll post it on that page if it is not a spoiler...or on my coins page if it is and make a reference to that post to the owner so they can see I was there. I also use the picture method if I come a cross a cool cache or a cache in a different state, I am getting a pretty nice collection of pictures on my coins page because of it.

 

Here are just a few

 

[+imfishinohio]

I'd log it if you think you deserve it. We all have to live with our own numbers.

[+JABs]

My rule is that if I find it, I count it. That means holding it in my hand and opening it up. I have had a few instances where I wasn't prepared to cache and didn't have a pen/pencil. I figure if I have the log in my hand, that is as good as signing it.

 

Just my opinion, I know others say you have to sign the log to count it.

 

To hike 2km's into the bush and find a cache without a pen and not to have brought your own is it or isn't it a find?

I have afew finds not logged on there cache page for one of several reasons, and several finds not logged in the log book ( this manly been that the log was all but a pile of mush).

 

Question if I hide a cache and at somepoint in the future my partner goes and lookes for it with out my help is it or isn't it a find? Just food for thought.

[Shiraz-mataz]

One of my personal rules concerns event caches - I won't log them at all! (Yes, I did log one event that I helped organize back in 2004). To me, an "event" is not a "cache" unless the gathering is held inside the world's largest ammo can hidden somewhere...

[+geomann1]

I have a simple rule: I only log a cache as a find if I found it.

 

Geocaching rules really are not that complicated!

[+geomann1]

I have a simple rule: I only log a cache as a find if I found it.

 

Geocaching rules really are not that complicated!

[+Geovius]

Simple rules applies to us also.

 

- If we find the cache we mark it as a found.

- If we were quided to cache still we found it.

- If cache will drop from the sky to our hands we found it.

 

What comes to log book it must be signed if we want to claim a find.

If a log book is full, but we could sign it we found it.

 

But if the container is frozen to the ground and we don't get it our hands so we could open it. It is DNF!

[+Sagefox]

Question if I hide a cache and at some point in the future my partner goes and looks for it with out my help is it or isn't it a find? Just food for thought.

 

This is one of those "gray areas" of geocaching. I did most of our cache hiding and Spark (my team partner) would occasionally find them.

 

I logged 4 of those finds on our team account to record her legitimate find of those caches. And later on I would take her to some memorable caches that I had found and logged previously on the team account and let her find them without any help other than what was listed on the cache page.

 

It didn't seem right to log those multiple finds to our team account so I set up an account just for her. I use that account to log all her solo finds including those caches I have hidden.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

One of my personal rules concerns event caches - I won't log them at all! (Yes, I did log one event that I helped organize back in 2004). To me, an "event" is not a "cache" unless the gathering is held inside the world's largest ammo can hidden somewhere...

Events that I have been to involved finding several temporary caches. I thought of them as a very long multi-caches that could only be found on that particular day). Would you not log an event as "Attended" in this situation?

[+Sagefox]

One of my personal rules concerns event caches - I won't log them at all! (Yes, I did log one event that I helped organize back in 2004). To me, an "event" is not a "cache" unless the gathering is held inside the world's largest ammo can hidden somewhere...

Events that I have been to involved finding several temporary caches. I thought of them as a very long multi-caches that could only be found on that particular day). Would you not log an event as "Attended" in this situation?

 

I would (and do) always log an event cache as "attended". It is a w - i - d - e - l - y accepted practice and there is even a special icon for it. The "attended" log is NOT intended to be used for temporary caches at an event. The "attended" log is for attending the event only.

 

There is no mechinism for logging temporary caches no matter where they are located or what activity they are associated with.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

One of my personal rules concerns event caches - I won't log them at all! (Yes, I did log one event that I helped organize back in 2004). To me, an "event" is not a "cache" unless the gathering is held inside the world's largest ammo can hidden somewhere...

Events that I have been to involved finding several temporary caches. I thought of them as a very long multi-caches that could only be found on that particular day). Would you not log an event as "Attended" in this situation?

 

I would (and do) always log an event cache as "attended". It is a w - i - d - e - l - y accepted practice and there is even a special icon for it. The "attended" log is NOT intended to be used for temporary caches at an event. The "attended" log is for attending the event only.

 

There is no mechinism for logging temporary caches no matter where they are located or what activity they are associated with.

 

I agree. My point above was why would someone NOT log an Attended if they were actually finding temporary caches.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Cedar Grove Seekers

[+Sarge104]

Thanks everone that commented, sorry for the delay in response in my part. Just got done doing a bit of caching in Japan. The discussion has proved very useful to me in firming up what should be done to protect a cache find from argument. Thanks again everyone and take care!

[+Klatch]

To hike 2km's into the bush and find a cache without a pen and not to have brought your own is it or isn't it a find?

Be creative. There are ways to leave your "mark" even though you didn't bring a pen or pencil. I've used a muddy stick several times, but now I always have something in my pack to write with.