When Is A Trade Not A Trade?

March 5, 2006

How long would you expect to wait for a traded coin to arrive? And what can you do if the people you have traded with don't reply to your messages?

I traded a number of my personal coin in January, and all bar one have arrived, and normally within 10 days of the trade.

Now, just one coin hasn't arrived. First time I chased it I gave them 4 weeks, they assured me it was on it's way. After another 3 weeks I sent another message, this time no response!

How long would you wait? And should they be named and shamed for their actions?

Matt

9.8k · March 5, 2006

This doesn't happen often, but it HAS happened a few times around here. Usually the thread gets locked when names start being tossed around. So I don't recommend posting the person's name.

First question, was the coin "in hand" when you traded for it or was it a preordered coin? There are two long-outstanding trades I have, but both cachers DO answer me with regards to their end of the trade. Both trades are in transit to me.

Also, Occaisionally items that should be mailed AIR get sent surface, which can take 4-6 weeks.

Personally, I would like to know who the person is just so I can possibly avoid dealings with them. Feel free to contact me privately if you wish to disclose that information.

5.7k · March 5, 2006

If the person is me, don't tell AG, I want her to think I'm a good trader...

9.8k · March 5, 2006

If the person is me, don't tell AG, I want her to think I'm a good trader...

LOL! I already know you're a good trader Marky

3.1k · March 5, 2006

If the coin you are waiting for is not a personal coin then tell us what coin it is. It may be one of the coins that is being held up for whatever reason and then atleast you will know why you do not have it.

I think it would be terrible if a person does a bad trade deal, I would like to know about known bad traders so I too would know to stay away from them.

March 5, 2006

There are two long-outstanding trades I have, but both cachers DO answer me with regards to their end of the trade. Both trades are in transit to me.

I think I am one of those - btw AG, did you finally get that ROT13 coin I sent you?!?

As to the question of the OP, I've done around 100 trades, or even more. I never had problems. Yes, there have been delays, the longest stretch was around 3 months but I always got my coins.

This is really a cool community and people here are very nice.

Edited March 5, 2006 by Pumabert

9.8k · March 5, 2006

I think I am one of those - btw AG, did you finally get that ROT13 coin I sent you?!?

Not yet. Should be this week sometime though

March 5, 2006

Also send a PM..who knows maybe your emails are going into a spam folder or something.

March 5, 2006

How long would you expect to wait for a traded coin to arrive? And what can you do if the people you have traded with don't reply to your messages?

I traded a number of my personal coin in January, and all bar one have arrived, and normally within 10 days of the trade.

Now, just one coin hasn't arrived. First time I chased it I gave them 4 weeks, they assured me it was on it's way. After another 3 weeks I sent another message, this time no response!

How long would you wait? And should they be named and shamed for their actions?

Matt

dont forget that you live in the UK, where mail does get lost occassionaly via air parcel. why dont you PM the trader and let them know?

be patient - this geocoin community is one of the best out there.

-TP

March 5, 2006

The trade was arranged through PM. The coin is not one that is still outstanding, it has been out a while.

As to living in the UK, all the other coin trades arrived within 10 days, all of which were with US based cachers.

This person will not confirm how it was sent, although I have asked. I have also requested proof of postage in my last message to them.

Edited March 5, 2006 by mattwaggie

1.6k · March 5, 2006

I have had some coins that took up to four weeks to get to destination. Two of them were going to Arizona. I don't know what stalled the two, because another mailer sent to the second person got there much sooner.

I was told by supervisors at the Post Office that every once in a while, all packages are checked through an x-ray machine to check for contents, since the 9/11 incident. That can stall thing for a while. Most of the mailers sent to Europe got there within a week.

So far, out of approx. 85 trades back and forth. I have never lost any coins I sent out to people, and only one coin that was sent to me did not make it, but was kindly replaced by the sender. Sometimes, I've had mailers arrive after three weeks of waiting.

Normally, if a person is contacted about a trade that does not arrive, they should respond as soon as possible if only to reassure the other party. Failure to do so only brings suspicions that something is wrong. That person should realize also, that by not responding, they are tarnishing their reputation as an honest trader. Even though names are deleted on the forum posts, word gets around in private messages and eventually, people will just refuse to trade with them.

1.5k · March 5, 2006

I would pm the heavy traders, AtlantaGal, Big John, Kealia, Cornerstone, etc and ask them. They've dealt with just about everyone out there and can tell you if the person is a problem.

March 5, 2006

I would pm the heavy traders, AtlantaGal, Big John, Kealia, Cornerstone, etc and ask them. They've dealt with just about everyone out there and can tell you if the person is a problem.

Or even people with over 500 posts :laughing:

1.5k · March 5, 2006

I would pm the heavy traders, AtlantaGal, Big John, Kealia, Cornerstone, etc and ask them. They've dealt with just about everyone out there and can tell you if the person is a problem.

Or even people with over 500 posts

That too, though amazingly enough, not everything actually makes it to these boards. :laughing:

(Not to mention some people have lots of posts and have never had anything useful to say! :laughing: )

Edited March 5, 2006 by Hula Bum

4.2k · March 5, 2006

1.7k · March 5, 2006

I made some trades in December that haven't arrived yet (there were about 4 as I recall).

Some of the ones mailed in December didnt reach me until February - mainly because they didn't have a customs label attached. I know some folks think they dont need to add them if they are under a pound in weight, but the rule is for the country you are sending to, not from. For the Uk they need one or they get stuck in customs for weeks.

T

March 5, 2006

When our coins came out back in January, I had a total of 3 shipments that went AWOL. All replaced OK with a second shipment.

On the receiving end of trades made at that same time, I also have 3 that seem to have gone AWOL. I've just chalked it up to "the powers that be" and that way I don't assign any blame to anybody.

If the coins arrive ... GREAT! If not, it's not worth losing sleep over. They got my coins, and if they don't want to return their end of the trade to me ... I'll just remember it for future reference.

JWID

March 5, 2006

I made some trades in December that haven't arrived yet (there were about 4 as I recall).

Some of the ones mailed in December didnt reach me until February - mainly because they didn't have a customs label attached. I know some folks think they dont need to add them if they are under a pound in weight, but the rule is for the country you are sending to, not from. For the Uk they need one or they get stuck in customs for weeks.

T

This is true for my end as well. Though I officially have a US mailing address, the military PO wants the customs forms completed. (The little green labels are fine).

I am always fearful in trades from here because of "lost items" through the mail. I mailed several trades out two weeks ago and have not heard that they had been received yet. Amazingly, I have made trades at the same time to the UK that have already been received. On the other hand, I had some mailed to me three weeks ago that haven't shown up yet amd some that showed up in 3 days. Go figure...that's why postage went up

4.2k · March 5, 2006

Yes, coins get lost in the mail and it happens on occasion.

I think the issue is the lack of response from the trader on the other end and thier unwillingness to provide the trader with adequate info.

I'm under the opinion that after an unreasonable amount of time has passed and you're not getting anywhere with the person that owes you a coin, it's OK to state the facts here. Note, this doesn't mean coming in and flaming the person, but a factual account of what has happened.

These usually turn into a he said/she said and flame war pretty quickly and the mods aren't wild about them either, but since this is a community I feel we should share these experiences.

If it's ok to talk about the good.....

Anyway, like someone above said: Feel free to PM/Email some of the known traders here and they should be able to tell you whether or not this person is a known bad-egg.

March 5, 2006

I've had experience both in not getting coins that were sent and in sending coins that were never received. In every case I managed to work it out without a problem. As implied in other posts, the key to keeping everyone happy is dealing fairly and a bit of understanding on both ends. Things DO occasionally get lost in shipment. It's a fact of life.

Being part of a self-policing community anyone who ignores this fact and won't try and work things out will soon find themselves short of trading partners.

3.8k · March 5, 2006

<bites tongue>

That hurt?

2k · March 5, 2006

I have done many many trades, and only have had one coin not make it to me, I still have yet to have a coin I sent not make it. I consider myself lucky. I hear the stories of empty envelopes and missing coins and just shudder. Can some of it be contributed to poor packaging? Maybe, but I have very little confidence in the US Postal Service, they are very sporadic in their dependability. I have had coins make it from Missouri to Germany in 4 days, :laughing: and yet a coin from Missouri to Illinois take 11 business days. It's ridiculous. As far as having a list of shady traders, I don't see a problem with it. Admin. probably would, and I can see their point.... but I don't see any difference with that than saying maybe you shouldn't make any long term investments in Enron or Global Crossing. I'm ranting... I'll step off the soapbox. Sorry. Next.

March 5, 2006

If the person is me, don't tell AG, I want her to think I'm a good trader...

I have not got your coin yet :laughing:

Richard

9.8k · March 5, 2006

Matt told me who the trader is and incidentally it's one many have had troubles with (myself included). So it's a somewhat "known" problem with this person and largely due to his age. I provided Matt with another username that was set up by this trader to avoid such communication problems. *Hopefully* contacting them through it will produce the coin he's waiting on.

March 6, 2006

It's really too bad that we can't put the names down so that we have a sort of feedback system like that e place. It would help avoid problems. It seems the ones that do have problems it is a recurring thing. Just my .02

5.7k · March 6, 2006

If the person is me, don't tell AG, I want her to think I'm a good trader...

I have not got your coin yet

Richard

Maybe that's because I haven't traded one with you. I'm glad you put that smilie there...

--Marky

1.3k · March 6, 2006

If the person is me, don't tell AG, I want her to think I'm a good trader...

I have not got your coin yet

Richard

Maybe that's because I haven't traded one with you. I'm glad you put that smilie there...

--Marky

I tried following Marky around trying to get a coin from a cache yesterday!!! But no... there were none in caches to be found .

2.6k · March 6, 2006

I have read these forums and have seen many people make the comment that the person's name should be published. I think it is important to remember that not all people on the forums are adults and that you may need to go beyond the individual cacher to have the problem handled. Do not jump to conclusions and remember that it is better to wait and attempt to sort out the matter before you flame someone.

5.7k · March 6, 2006

I have read these forums and have seen many people make the comment that the person's name should be published. I think it is important to remember that not all people on the forums are adults and that you may need to go beyond the individual cacher to have the problem handled. Do not jump to conclusions and remember that it is better to wait and attempt to sort out the matter before you flame someone.

That is excellent advice. :laughing:

March 6, 2006

I have read these forums and have seen many people make the comment that the person's name should be published. I think it is important to remember that not all people on the forums are adults and that you may need to go beyond the individual cacher to have the problem handled. Do not jump to conclusions and remember that it is better to wait and attempt to sort out the matter before you flame someone.

But to post the cachers name and the problem that is happening isn't flaming. It's giving the community knowledge of whom to deal with.

There should be some sort of trader rep system set up here. Shouldn't be too hard, anything4free.com has the same type of board and has one set up. Let's get a trader rep system set up!

9.8k · March 6, 2006

Since this specific instance involves a minor, it could be considered flaming. There are not that many youngsters trading on this board. So it really shouldn't be too difficult to figure out who Matt was trading with.

But I do agree that a bad trader thread should be allowed. There are about 3 names I would add to it with reasons as to why of course.

Edited March 6, 2006 by AtlantaGal

2.6k · March 6, 2006

I would disagree with your idea of a trader rep system. It is subjective and will cause angst between the members. I have not heard many reports of people not getting trades and the few problems there have been were worked out.

What happens when the coin is lost in the mail and the person who is to receive the coin posts that the trader is not reliable and people should not trade with them. How about the times that the trader has work or other issues cause the coin not to go out for a week or so, the person receives the coin feels it should come within a few days.

To put the problem and the person's name on the forums is flaming. Once you post something negative about a person, the "community" starts to draw conclusions without even giving someone a chance to respond. There are a couple people that have driven a particular collector from the forums by their comments and attitude towards that person. I personally don't feel comfortable being the person who drives a collector away from coins or collecting over a $7.00 coin.

However, I don't believe what Mattwaggie did was wrong. AG does a lot of trades and could possibly lead that person on how to handle the situation but this was done privately.

Just my personal viewpoint.

March 6, 2006

how about rather then a bad trader thread rather a great trader thread. When a trade is positive you credit them in the thread. That way people can see if the have good feed back. (but remember we all start with no feed back and have to have a leap of faith in a positive trade)

March 6, 2006

I would disagree with your idea of a trader rep system. It is subjective and will cause angst between the members. I have not heard many reports of people not getting trades and the few problems there have been were worked out.

What happens when the coin is lost in the mail and the person who is to receive the coin posts that the trader is not reliable and people should not trade with them. How about the times that the trader has work or other issues cause the coin not to go out for a week or so, the person receives the coin feels it should come within a few days.

To put the problem and the person's name on the forums is flaming. Once you post something negative about a person, the "community" starts to draw conclusions without even giving someone a chance to respond. There are a couple people that have driven a particular collector from the forums by their comments and attitude towards that person. I personally don't feel comfortable being the person who drives a collector away from coins or collecting over a $7.00 coin.

Its too bad people don't know the meaning of flaming,

Flaming is the act of posting messages that are deliberately hostile and insulting, usually in the social context of a discussion board (usually on the Internet). Such messages are called flames, and are sometimes posted in response to flamebait. Flaming is said by some to be one of a class of economic problems known as The Tragedy of the Commons, when a group holds a resource (in this case, communal attention), but each of the individual members has an incentive to overuse it.

Although the trading of insults is as old as humanity, flaming on the Internet, like many other online 'actions', started in the Usenet hierarchies (although it was known to occur in the WWIVnet and FidoNet computer networks as well). A flame may have elements of a normal message, but is distinguished by its intent. A flame is typically not intended to be constructive, to further clarify a discussion, or to persuade other people. The motive for flaming is often not dialectic, but rather social or psychological. Sometimes, flamers are attempting to assert their authority, or establish a position of superiority. Occasionally, flamers wish to upset and offend other members of the forum, in which case they are trolls. Most often however, flames are angry or insulting messages transmitted by people who have strong feelings about a subject. Finally, some consider flaming to be a great way to let off steam, though the receiving party may be less than pleased.

What I am suggesting is that there be some sort of set-up so we know if there are problems and to watch out for them. We could have the "traders rep" monitored by a mod. It only creates angst for and from those that are not trading properly. It seems lately that there have been a lot more problems. If something like this is setup, then it should subside some.

If the coin is lost in the mail or such, then the sender should have kept their receipt to show that the coin was mailed. It's not too hard to keep a simple piece of paper. If the trader has work or other issues that cause the coin not to go out, they should atleast inform the other party of what is going on. Once again, sending a three second email saying "I'm swamped with work, the coin will be sent out a little bit late" isn't a hard thing to do.

2.2k · March 6, 2006

Matt told me who the trader is and incidentally it's one many have had troubles with (myself included). So it's a somewhat "known" problem with this person and largely due to his age. I provided Matt with another username that was set up by this trader to avoid such communication problems. *Hopefully* contacting them through it will produce the coin he's waiting on.

Does that mean that dad hasn't been keeping his "Eye" on his son again?

March 7, 2006

But I do agree that a bad trader thread should be allowed. There are about 3 names I would add to it with reasons as to why of course.

Is it not strange that its always the same old people in here complaining that they never recieved their trades. Or better yet its the same people starting the fires with gossip :anicute: .

There are about 5 names I can think of to ad to the "know it all expert list" with obvious reasons :anicute: .

Edited March 7, 2006 by The Phantom Cacher.

1.3k · March 7, 2006

how about rather then a bad trader thread rather a great trader thread. When a trade is positive you credit them in the thread. That way people can see if the have good feed back. (but remember we all start with no feed back and have to have a leap of faith in a positive trade)

There is another site that allows for this. Kinda like an ebay rating system would be good.

I know sometimes I drop the ball on trades but if I ever do, I hope people would email me before giving a bad mark. In the end, I work to make sure everytrade is complete... Cornerstone4 I still have one to send to you too!

nielsenc

March 7, 2006

I definately have to agree with Nielsenc here - if I drop the ball on a trade (no excuses - I have made mistakes several times) I would hope the person would "remind" me first before they took it to the open boards. I look a lot better with a little egg on my face then I do with a dumptruck load of manure on my head :anicute:

With that said though, if you have tried with someone and they just don't respond... "c'mon back!"

T1

March 7, 2006

I do know who you're talking about and there was some confusion with our trade as well, it did work in the end although it was weeks later. I am betting a lack of organization may be one of the problems. Or a hand into too many pots at a time, or whatever that saying is, you know what I mean!

I had another personals trade arranged with someone and I sent my end right away. When I didn't receive theirs in return after a month (and yes, they already had theirs in hand) I emailed and they replyed that they thought they had taken care of all trades and would check their records once they got home. Never heard back. A week later, I emailed again asking if they had a chance to check, nothing, another week, asked again, no reply again so basically at this point, I give up, they can have my coin, whatever. Who knows, they may be undergoing some hardships right now and answering coin emails is the furthest thing from their mind. I am always the optimist. Besides, it's only a coin, not worth getting myself worked up over but it is a shame because I will most likely never trade with that person again.

1.1k · March 8, 2006

I would like to see some kind of list, I currently have 2 coins ive already sent out on Feb 17, 2006 and have not received anything or heard anything from either person.

also a few months ago i sent a coin to a cacher and never received a coin in return, they stated they did send it out though, so i just chalked that one up to lost in the mail.

Nero

Edit: after checking more closely into records (im a mess here) 1 of those trades was for a yet to be mailes signal january coin, so thats a legit on hold...

Edited March 8, 2006 by Nero

1.4k · March 8, 2006

Look at of of the fun I get to come home too!

Edited March 8, 2006 by Cav Scout

When Is A Trade Not A Trade?

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