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Negative Logs

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We've just recently placed our first cache, and I am stunned by the log visits I have been receiving. Altho stated to be a 2/3.5, which I state in the description that I don't think its that high, but still a challenge, I have been getting negative comments such as a bummer, thanks for the sprained ankle, etc. One person wrote me a note that he couldn't find it, I went to check on it, and I was easily able to access it and I'm a 50 year old woman who is not in too great a shape. One person told me coords. are right on, and they are if approached a certain way. Should I take these to heart, and place the cache elsewhere, give more hints, or just ignore them? The cache is in the manner of Amish Hacker's thread and available on this website :) , but people just don't seem to be enjoying my cache :) .

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There people who don't like looking for a cache in a pile of rocks.


Those people will start figuring out what type of cache it is based on the logs and avoid it altogether. The logs will improve eventually as cachers who attempt it will know what they are getting into.


Good luck!


edit: reworded.

Edited by BlueDeuce
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Well, I just looked at your cache and read the logs, and I've got to say that I can understand where those cachers are coming from. personally, if that cache was in my area I'd likely ignore it. I'm not a big fan of a micro or small cache hidden in an area with a million possible hiding spots, expecially with such a weak hint.


I know that I've read opinions from others in here that also dislike the "turn over every rock for two hours" method of caching, but in some areas that might be the prefered style. Different cachers like different things. Here in the Dallas area the locals seem to love micros in the woods with no hint at all, so they might love your cache.


Anyways, you have a few choices;


1.) Change the cache to make it easier to find.

2.) Archive it and start over.

3.) Let it be and grow a thicker skin. Remember, you can't please all the people all the time.

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I checked your cache page. And read some logs. Seems you've placed a micro cache in a rock pile.


There's a Florida cacher whose signature line is, "Shrub hunts suck, big time".


I expect there are a fair number of folks in any rocky hilly areas whose caching motto might be, "Rock pile hunts suck, big time".


Is there something special about this rock pile? It does sound like you've done a great job with coordinate accuracy. If I were in the area, I'd probably skip it, as no one logging it has said anything like, "Great view!", or "really clever container!" or even, "thanks for bringing me here".

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You could beef up the hint a little. Like take a tree or structure that is very obvious. Count how many paces away the cache is in what direction.


That way you give people the choice. If they don't want to look around for a micro in a rock pile (like I wouldn't generally want to do) I would just decode the hint. If they are into the rock pile thing, then they don't have to decode.


That way they can't blame you for their displeasure with the cache.

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I've got a cache where someone complained about the trail being muddy when in the log they stated it rained the day before. (Doh! #1)

On the same cache someone posted a note warning future finders that it would be a 2 mile round trip....the description says it's approx 1 mile to the cache. (Doh! #2)

You can't please 'em all so no use worrying about it.

Keep hiding them & have fun.

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I wouldn't take it personally. It looks like you have your cache rated properly, although sometimes I think a micro in a rockpile should be a D=5.


There is a cache here, Golden Hammer, that is in a rockpile, which isn't rated properly for Terrain. :)


I spent an hour looking for the cache the first time I was up there, but I had a great time achieving that DNF. B)


Those responses say more about the caching style of those cachers than your cache. It looks like some of them didn't really try to find the cache. If you get DNFs from people who actually spend time looking, then maybe I would consider a very detailed hint.


I would like to commend you for including the parking coordinates. I really appreciate it when cache owners do that . . . and I will write a less than flattering log when the trailhead is almost impossible to find and lots of gas is wasted in that search. :)

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I'd probably have just turned around and left too. Nothing irritates me more than a micro in a rock pile. Except possibly a micro in a big patch of ivy. :) Clearly, there are others who share my point of view.


That said, each cacher is responsible for making their own decisions. By reading the logs, I'd know that I wouldn't enjoy your cache, so I'd make the decision to simply skip it. If I read the cache page and the logs and still went looking for it, and I had a miserable time, I'd only have myself to blame.

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I'd probably have just turned around and left too. Nothing irritates me more than a micro in a rock pile. Except possibly a micro in a big patch of ivy. :) Clearly, there are others who share my point of view.


That said, each cacher is responsible for making their own decisions. By reading the logs, I'd know that I wouldn't enjoy your cache, so I'd make the decision to simply skip it. If I read the cache page and the logs and still went looking for it, and I had a miserable time, I'd only have myself to blame.

I agree with the perks

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Why couldn't an ammo can have been hidden in this rock pile instead? If I'm going to have to turn over every rock for two hours I at least want the consolation of trading some swag afterwards. :)


Seriously, My philosophy on rockpile hunts is this: It's OK to hide a cache in a field of rocks, but the rock nearest (or on top of) the cache should be ever-so-slightly different in color or type, so that a cacher would spot it fairly soon if they were observant enough, but a muggle wouldn't notice it at all. Or suspend the cache from the trusswork of a narrow iron footbridge passing over the rock field, so that finders will at first cringe when they think they have to search under every rock but after awhile they'll start thinking in 3-d and climb the bridge to find the cache. Make it challenging, not cruel. Turning over every rock is cruel, IMHO.


-Hugh Jazz

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I'd probably have just turned around and left too.  Nothing irritates me more than a micro in a rock pile.  Except possibly a micro in a big patch of ivy. :)  Clearly, there are others who share my point of view.


That said, each cacher is responsible for making their own decisions.  By reading the logs, I'd know that I wouldn't enjoy your cache, so I'd make the decision to simply skip it.  If I read the cache page and the logs and still went looking for it, and I had a miserable time, I'd only have myself to blame.

I agree with the perks

And that about sums it up.

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It is on top, or it was when I went check on it and it is a terracotta color in a group of grey. Very different and visible at least to me , but I know what it looks like.

Now, if I had that information, I'd probably go find your cache if I was in your area. That way if I couldn't find it after a few minutes, I know I'd have a nudge in the right direction and wouldn't have to just keep searching (and getting more frustrated all the while).


I've found some good (and memorable) "rock pile" caches. But those have been the ones where I had a good idea where to look--and to me, searching a targeted area and then getting to spend some time enjoying the scenery is a whole lot more satisfying than not knowing where to look and having to turn over every dang stone within a 50-foot radius.


Just food for thought. But it's ultimately your call. Do what you're most comfortable with. :)

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The combination of your description with the logs is plenty of information. Keep the cache as is.


I have experienced frustration with caches like yours, but I have also discovered a couple that were quite rewarding. Don't sweat the negative logs. Actually, they're not really that negative at all, and the cache is obviously findable. :):)

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There's enough information in the description and logs now that most folks should understand whether they'd want to hunt it. Sounds like your coordinates are quite good. That's a true bonus in my book. If you upped the difficulty from 2 to 2.5 or even 3, folks who DNF it won't feel quite so cheated. :) maybe.


That you are an unknown hider is also a consideration. By the time you've hidden several, people will know that they should slow down, that they can trust your coordinate accuracy.

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Living in Idaho, home of more lava flows than anywhere in the USA but Hawaii I've seen a rock pile cache or two. You can hide a truck in some of them and it would still be a hard find. Hiding a micro in a rock pile is nothing more than a way to torture your fellow cachers. I've only ever been brave enough to face the wrath with a small cache...


The creative thing about a rock pile hide isn't a micro, it's hiding the cache in such a way that a geocacher is drawn to that one spot. It may not be the first or even the 20th spot they look but it's the one spot that they will look in. Finding that spot takes experience. You can start with how you could describe the hiding spot with something unique. If you can't, it's not that spot. "It's under the big rock" doesn't cut it. "There is a single tree in this rock pile, 10' away is a rock shaped like Abe Lincoln, that's ground zero". Now you have a cache.


Rock piles are a good way to get hurt, but there are rock piles and there are rock piles. Some are worse than others. Be honest about it being a rock pile cache.


Good luck.

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Keeping, Changing or Archiving is purely up to you but just know if you keep it the way it is, it is likely some people will complain.


Granted, I'd search for a micro in a rock pile, but I would have my 2 small kids with me who would think turning over rocks is fun. :)


The only cache we have at this point is in the backyard... and we have gotten many good comments but some of them are negative about being in someone's yard and not feeling "right" about looking around. It states that it is located in the yard - so it comes down to as long as there is good information on the cache, a good hint if someone wants it and information that can be obtained in the log files - then... if they have a bad time, its their own fault.


I know the one in my backyard gives ya the heebie jeebies thinking you might be in the wrong yard or someone that doesn't know what you are doing is watching - but for me, that is fun too. Nothing like a good queasy stomach to get the adrenaline flowing.

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I don't care much for rock torture - but Cliff will hunt for them anywhere so I suck it up. We really don't get any enjotment out of them but we try since we are there.


I would try to even things out by giving good hints and letting people know what to expect so if they really detest that kind of cache they simple skip it.


I hate poisin ivy more than rocks. There are a lot of caches Cliff has to hunt for alone because it is in a field of poisin ivy and I am so allergic to it. :)

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At the very least, place another cache completely unlike this one so you aren't dissed at the next event. For me, the joy of caching is about discovery. Micros often make my teeth ache, but if I am discovering something along the way, I don't mind the aggravation afterward. A micro in a pile of country rock is definately not a cache I would pursue. (I'd love to go after Briansnat's though...)

Of course, I believe that if a bigger container is at all possible, it should be used. Also, I am a fairly low-tech cacher, so I am likely to read the cache page (although you don't include very much info) and the logs before I head out. Some cachers in my area seem to head out with nothing but coordinates in hand. Many of those folks would likely leave the briefest "TNLN TFTH" logs, which seems to be the NW Washington version of cache criticism. Maybe you should move out here and put miniature grocery-store plastic tubs under rotten logs next to bogs (mosquito nurseries), under heavy tree cover so the coords are useless, and leave a hint like "damp spot". At least the resulting carping would be subtle.


Can you tell I'm harboring some angst? HA!


I am still new to this sport, and I learn new ways and encounter great ideas all the time. No doubt I will be improving my first few hides to incorporate what I've learned. It's valuable and instructive to have people gripe about specific issues rather than see log after log of "TFTH". However, if you love the hide, leave it. I love my ugly 15 year old flannel and no amount of criticism is going to make me archive it before it disintegrates right off my shoulders.

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I have to agree with the masses again dificulty seems a little low, and the hint is vague. I place an altoids tin in a rock pile and put a peice of concrete that kind of looked like a rock on top of the pile. My hint was thats not a rock. I have gotten some good feedback on it. Met a few fellow cachers at an event recently they said my hint was vague enough but pointed them right to it once they figured it out.

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We've just recently placed our first cache, and I am stunned by the log visits I have been receiving.

The most important thing is to not be discouraged. Not everyone likes every kind of cache. As long as you are clear about what they will be hunting they have no reason to complain.

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If you're looking for happy, warm fuzzies in your find/DNF logs, then hide a cache everyone will want to find. A nicely camo'd ammo can at the end of a .1 mile walk where the sats are perfect and the trail is never muddy (paved would be better) should get you lots of smiling, 'You rock!' types of logs.


If you're going to hide something that 50% of the cachers out there (give or take a few) are going to think sucks, then prepare yourself for some bad feedback.


Quite frankly, if I arrived on the scene not knowing what I was walking into before I got there, I'd DNF your cache without even looking, leave an unfavorable (but funny) log and move on... and hesitate before ever looking for one of your caches again.


BUT, that's just me.


Some people love that kind of stuff.

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We've only got 50 finds so far, but there have been 2 frustrating rock piles where a good hint and accurate coorinates would have made the finds much more enjoyable.


A hint saying "under a rock" is just not appropriate, and in one case we were zeroing out with 5M accuracy 15M+ from the actual cache. Not good.


Being stuborn, we will eventually get there, but a good hint or photo never hurts.


Another micro we went for called "rainy day" turned out to be in a rock pile with a vague hint and bad coordinates. It was raining hard and I really didn't feel like crawling over a rock pile in those conditions. Fortunately it is a worthy location so we'll go back - just not when it's raining.


Like everyone else says - don't take it personally.

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Some folks hate micros. Some folks hate hunting in a rock pile.


I have a rock pile hide, but I made sure that:

  • The coordinates are quite accurate.
  • The cache is visible (if you get close enough) without turning any rocks.

Also, I used an ammo box. I wouldn't have hidden there except the places is a very cool historical site that is virtually unknown.

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Hide them like you like to find them!


I have a few rock-pile caches, and they get found regularly without complaint.


GCPYN0 is an ammo can in a crack in a rock in a valley full of rocks.


GCPYN4 was a fake rock, got swiped and a cacher replaced it with a medicine bottle - in a rock pile.


GCNF7A is a medicine bottle-sized decon container in a drill-hole in a rock face.


I have two fake rocks, one I got at GeoWoodstock in FL (it's sold on Grounsdpeak and carries their logo, so somebody must like them!) and one made by a friend (a flat rock about the size of a half-dollar, with a 1/2" glass tube glued to the underside), that are not active at the moment. I take them to events and hide them as event games.


All of these get great reviews!


Edited to add that there are many caches like this in the area - of the 1500+ I have found at least 100 had to do with fake rocks or rock piles. Again, hide 'em like you like to find 'em and don't try to please everyone, it can't be done!

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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You don't have to find every cache. It's a choice we all make when we read the cache page and continue to make when we actually get close or to the coordinates. There are times you just have to say "this one isn't for me". I DNF'd one where I found a dozen large tubs full of stagnant water and couldn't hear the traffic nearby for all the mosquitoes. Based on the logs and hint I was within a few yards of the cache, but I quickly left maybe to come back when the weather changes. I did not go after one last night that was above a cemetary and I would have had to go 400+ feet uphill bushwacking. I got there later than I would have liked, but maybe next time.


I have a rock pile cache where the small container is attached to one of the native rocks. GCQFZ2. It is an easy walk but I made the whole thing a 3/3 and list several times what is involved. I was told it was fun to watch a group on a cache run hunt and peck for this one.


Then there was GCPX7A that is a micro in a rock pile. I DNF on that one as when I went to look the obvious clue was covered from all the boulder rolling.


Remember it is just a game, try to have fun.

Edited by Rick618
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While I do not mind searching for a micro in a place that a micro will only work. I would not put any effort to finding a micro in a rock pile. I really do not understand why people hide micros in areas the will support a large cache, I have an idea why but i am not about to start a micro Vs. large cache war. That was been done several times in the forums already

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Just like what most folks here have said, a rock pile micro will generate those types of comments. Probably even the most "perfect" caches will generate "I do not like this" or the snub of "TNLNSL. TFTC." Do not sweat it, but be cognizant of types of caches that could cause dislike or frustration in the future, and just know the "negative" logs will come.


Here, if it makes you feel better, read the logs on a similar cache and know you are not alone. :laughing:


Edit: Here is an image: :laughing:1d509628-33df-420b-9ab9-ae943d9b8c17.jpg

Edited by Jeep_Dog
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Hiw is this a snub when the cache is a bison tube or some other mini micro were there is not enough room to leave anything and there is nothing to take.

Let me define, perhaps, an sample "perfect" cache.


A well-thought out cache with a puzzle, multi, whatever, with excellent coordinates, and ends in a regular with expensive swag.


Even these every so often get a "TNLNSL. TFTC."


In that case, it is a snub. I was merely pointing out even thoughtful, quality caches get negative logs.

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A micro in the rocks? Why not make the container larger, and build a cairn to put it in, since there seems to be an abundance of rocks? You could paint the container, there is a cacher in my area that does this, it works well. And with every visitor, the cairn can grow one rock larger.


If you don't like that suggestion, i'd increase the difficulty, since it appears to be a micro in a rockpile.

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