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Deleting virtual logs that didn't comply with logging requirement?


crossseeker77

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Posted

I have a new virtual and I wanted to make the logging requirements simple. Basically, they have to: 1. post (or email) a thumbs-up photo at the location; and 2. write in the log what they enjoyed or learned about the location. Very simple, and the instructions are clear in the description, but people are posting logs with one or both of those tasks not completed. The photo is proof of visiting the location.

I'm curious how you all handle this with virtuals and earthcaches? Do you message them with a reminder? How much time do you give them to comply? Do you delete their log if they don't? I don't want my virtual to become just an armchair caching site, but I don't want to be a jerk. Thanks

 

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Posted

I have two virtuals that require a photo.  The large majority of loggers do so without issue, though some will message me the photo and post the photo (when I said that there's no need to message me the photo).

 

For those that message me a photo and don't post it, I ask them to add the photo to the log.  I offer to explain how to do so also.  I'm very patient despite a clear "please post a photo within 24 hours of your log" requirement.  For those that don't post a photo, I ask them to post a photo, again offering to explain to them how to do so if they need help.

 

If a few days goes by without any progress, I delete the log.

 

Sometimes the person will re-post the log with the photo afterward, sometimes no log will be posted.

 

You can see my virtuals on my profile if you want to see how I worded things.

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Posted
27 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

For those that message me a photo and don't post it, I ask them to add the photo to the log.  I offer to explain how to do so also.  I'm very patient despite a clear "please post a photo within 24 hours of your log" requirement.  For those that don't post a photo, I ask them to post a photo, again offering to explain to them how to do so if they need help.

 

If a few days goes by without any progress, I delete the log.

Sometimes this is an issue for me as a finder.  If we are away on a trip, my husband takes the pictures on his camera (yes, camera, not phone) and they don't get downloaded until we are home -- this can be as long as two weeks or even a few days more.  I always explain this in my original log;  I sometimes get a reminder from the CO that I haven't posted the photo, to which I respond with the date when I expect to be able to post the photo.  I've never had a log deleted because of this.  

Posted
2 hours ago, NanCycle said:

Sometimes this is an issue for me as a finder.  If we are away on a trip, my husband takes the pictures on his camera (yes, camera, not phone) and they don't get downloaded until we are home -- this can be as long as two weeks or even a few days more.  I always explain this in my original log;  I sometimes get a reminder from the CO that I haven't posted the photo, to which I respond with the date when I expect to be able to post the photo.  I've never had a log deleted because of this.  

 

And that's why I said I'm patient.  I'm not going to delete a log if there's communication.  But eventually there has to be a photo.

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Posted

The virtual rewards guidelines in the Help Centre says "The purpose of the required logging task is to show that the geocacher was at the location. Anything other than that should be optional."

 

My own virtual, published in January this year, has three waypoints with questions to answer plus a requirement to include a photo taken at the final one with your log. It's only had 6 fiinders, but one of those managed to get the first two questions wrong and included his photo with his answers instead of in his log, but it was enough to convince me he'd been there so I was content to let his log stand without fussing over the technicalities. I want it to be a fun experience, not an exam. Much the same went for my now-archived EC where I only deleted logs if I didn't get any answers at all in spite of requesting them in follow-up messages and emails, or if it was clear the logger had never been to the location.

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Posted

I have a virtual that requires answering 5 questions, i.e., not very simple. Of the 100+ people that have visited so far, maybe 4-5 have answered one of the questions wrong. However I let all the logs stand since they obviously visited the location.
I would actually suggest not making the logging requirement too simple, as it seems that people enjoy it more when they put a bit more effort into it 😀

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Posted (edited)

I logged this one and so did my mate: https://coord.info/GC890Z0 , complete with photo as required. As the background was visible and our faces and part of our bodies were fully shown, it was clear that my mate and me have been at the exact place. The owner deleted our logs as the picture didn't show our caching names, which is a logging requirement according to them. This is mentioned in the listing, but apparantly very strictly enforced ... not my style of having fun with caches ...

Edited by NLBokkie
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Posted
20 minutes ago, NLBokkie said:

as the picture didn't show our caching names,

I've had that happen to me. I had my GPS and hand with statue behind, but no name on paper. My log was deleted. I had some other cachers contact me and say this was ridiculous. It was. I am planning to get a friend to stand there for me, write my name on paper and hold it up to make a mockery of this rule. Hand and name only as he's male. ANYONE can write a name. My hand and GPS were more reliable.

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Posted
1 hour ago, NLBokkie said:

it was clear that my mate and me have been at the exact place. The owner deleted our logs as the picture didn't show our caching names

 

The same happens if you make a photolog of a traditional cache. It may be clear that you visited the place but your task is to sign the log.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Sottiwotti said:

The requirement of showing your caching name is so ridicilous. I do not have a piece of paper with me all the time, and I'm sure I'm not the only one

Looks like one person wrote their name on their finger and put it in the photo. 

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Posted
5 hours ago, NLBokkie said:

I logged this one and so did my mate: https://coord.info/GC890Z0 , complete with photo as required. As the background was visible and our faces and part of our bodies were fully shown, it was clear that my mate and me have been at the exact place. The owner deleted our logs as the picture didn't show our caching names, which is a logging requirement according to them. This is mentioned in the listing, but apparantly very strictly enforced ... not my style of having fun with caches ...

 

The only requirement is have visible caching name (just a small card evenlike the example on the cache page). It'd fit in your pocket.

It's a popular area, and I could probably pass myself off as any other person that visited there that day.

 - If anyone else happened to look like a bridge troll...      I would have a similar small card in my pocket for the visit.  NBD.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Sottiwotti said:

The requirement of showing your caching name is so ridicilous. I do not have a piece of paper with me all the time, and I'm sure I'm not the only one

The nice thing about this hobby is I don't have to do caches that bug me, skipping by hundreds to get to one I'll do.

I remember seeing a webcam where the CO wanted you to phoon at his webcam so he could tell which person you were.

Before cellphones and immediate gratification, we had to have a third person at home take our photo from a PC to log our only webcam

Having a card in your pocket for the day for one virtual doesn't seem like that big a deal...

 

Edited by cerberus1
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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

phooning is the act of striking a pose where all the limbs are bent at the joints, and the body is bent forward at the waist.

:laughing: Well I can't imagine many non-Americans would know that. Doesn't translate well internationally. Also very difficult to do when caching alone. Perhaps a picture of my bent arm or knee saying that's all that I could fit in the photograph needing to to take a picture of myself from myself.

 

Edited by Goldenwattle
Posted
19 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

ANYONE can write a name. My hand and GPS were more reliable.

Really? Lets assume you want to cheat your visit at the location. Do you really think finding someone making a photo at the location with *your* name is easier than searching the internet (I would even suggest manipulating an older photo from the gallery :ph34r:) for an acceptable motive with a person or a gps or a hand?

At my virtual I even require the date (either together with the person/gps or with the username) to prevent that old family photos were used.

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Posted
47 minutes ago, Hynz said:

Really? Lets assume you want to cheat your visit at the location. Do you really think finding someone making a photo at the location with *your* name is easier than searching the internet (I would even suggest manipulating an older photo from the gallery :ph34r:) for an acceptable motive with a person or a gps or a hand?

At my virtual I even require the date (either together with the person/gps or with the username) to prevent that old family photos were used.

Sigh, didn't you read what I wrote. I did visit the virtual sight and I supplied a photograph of my GPS and me at the site. I also answered the questions correctly (which I needed to visit the site to find the answers for) and sent them to the CO before I logged, as I always do. My log was rejected, because I didn't include a piece of paper with my name on it. What does that prove? That a friend held it up for me! I had messages from other geocachers saying this is ridiculous and they would have accepted the log. I have been ignoring this virtual as every time I pass it I get annoyed just thinking about it. So fair game, it's on. When I can be bothered I will get a friend to write my name and pose with the statue. Then log :tongue:. A name on the piece of paper and even a date is zilch proof anyone was there. Zero!

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Posted
34 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

My log was rejected, because I didn't include a piece of paper with my name on it. What does that prove?

 

You have some misunderstanding about the virtual caches. You must perform the task stated in the description. Visiting the site is optional(*), unless stated in the description. If you miss the task your log may be deleted.

 

(*) CO can not delete your log just because you didn't visit the GZ.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

 

image.png.664790c5d98c689f926010aa23ea34c3.png

Pleased about "Cache owners cannot require information to be sent through one particular tool." Some want an email send with the answer, which then sends a reply to log back. For some reason it doesn't work with the email address I want to use for this. I won't use my personal email. Good, I will continue to message answers.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, barefootjeff said:

The Help Centre has a different take on this...

 

Did you see the fine print (*) :D

 

There are similar requirement for other type of caches too but it is considered that the name in the logbook is enough for a find, because CO can not delete the find if this primary requirement is fullfilled.

Edited by arisoft
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Posted
On 9/23/2024 at 8:09 PM, Goldenwattle said:

What is that?

 

A running man pose. Nothing big or special. But a geocacher did it many many years ago, started a trend, and now it's kind of a quiet fun thing geocachers sometimes do. SOrt of like planking for geocachers.
(Sadly it looks like the homepage's last stand was back in February and has since been lost to the ether)

 

The phoon is also used as a component theme in my logo for Cache The Line, since day 1 :)

 

CTI-YTAvatar2.png.d1e99347b8730b4442e0b32f54a7fb2c.png

 

 

I have seen numerous geocaches, mainly Virtual, that have a phoon theme to them. Whether requiring a phoon for a valid Find or just having fun with the pose.

 

When I did my 366 day streak of finds I took a phoon photo every single day. Got a lot of practice :P

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Posted
3 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I haven't noticed that image before. Might be regional.

 

It may well be, as I haven't seen any local virtuals with a "phooning" requirement. The photo requirements on most, including my own, are just to include a part of yourself (face optional), or something of yours such as a card bearing your caching name, with the feature of interest in the background.

Posted
On 9/15/2024 at 2:36 AM, crossseeker77 said:

I don't want my virtual to become just an armchair caching site, but I don't want to be a jerk.

 

It seems I'm now in that position with my virtual. Its logging tasks are pretty straightforward, being a simple question to answer at each of its three locations plus a photo with your log showing yourself or something of yours with GZ's rock feature in the background. I got a log from the long weekend just past by someone with 10 years in the game and 9 previous virtuals, but with no photo in their log and no answers sent. Okay, it's still early days and I should give them time - a few days, a week, a fortnight? - before sending them a follow-up message and email, but in all likelihood it'll follow the script of all the others I've had to chase up for missing EC answers or no signatures in logbooks on multis, etc., which is typically no reply at all.

 

Complicating this, though, is the long-standing bug in the Android version of the official app causing no Message Centre notifications, plus the app outage over the weekend that might have gobbled up their answers if they tried to send them. The logger last visited the website in March so it looks like they pretty much exclusively use the app now, which makes it almost impossible to communicate with them if no answers are forthcoming. So I'll end up being an ogre if I delete their log because of a broken app or an irresponsible CO if I don't. Why did I want to create a virtual?

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Posted

That "paper with your caching name on" requirement is rife in Spain - but that one in Dublin up the thread is notorious too. Porto airport virtual CO deleted our first attempt despite letting go many similar ones. If I ever get a virtual it'll be an "answer the question" one...

Posted
13 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

It seems I'm now in that position with my virtual. Its logging tasks are pretty straightforward, being a simple question to answer at each of its three locations plus a photo with your log showing yourself or something of yours with GZ's rock feature in the background. I got a log from the long weekend just past by someone with 10 years in the game and 9 previous virtuals, but with no photo in their log and no answers sent. Okay, it's still early days and I should give them time - a few days, a week, a fortnight? - before sending them a follow-up message and email, but in all likelihood it'll follow the script of all the others I've had to chase up for missing EC answers or no signatures in logbooks on multis, etc., which is typically no reply at all.

 

Complicating this, though, is the long-standing bug in the Android version of the official app causing no Message Centre notifications, plus the app outage over the weekend that might have gobbled up their answers if they tried to send them. The logger last visited the website in March so it looks like they pretty much exclusively use the app now, which makes it almost impossible to communicate with them if no answers are forthcoming. So I'll end up being an ogre if I delete their log because of a broken app or an irresponsible CO if I don't. Why did I want to create a virtual?

 

Are you asking which of those three time limits you should apply?  :...a few days, a week, a fortnight?"

 

I vote for a fortnight. Definitely. No question about it. Full stop.

 

Why?

 

Because I'm an American and we don't use that term here, and I think it's cool.

 

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Posted

Besides the 'cool' factor of fortnight ...

 

If I am fortunate enough to be on a European vacation, I'm pretty sure the vacation is longer than a week.   With spotty coverage and more interesting things to do with my time, it may take me a fortnight before I get my photos loaded and sorted and my geocaching logs submitted.

 

 

Posted

My 2c on name in photos for virtuals (as someone who owns/co-owns 2 virtuals with this requirement).

 

Requiring the caching name on an item in the photo serves a couple of purposes to a CO. Primarily that the site was visited, and that it was almost certainly done so after publication of the virtual.


I dont know what people look like, so a selfie is no more of a guarantee that it was you that visited the site than a name on a piece of paper. Ideal world you require both, but cant do that and I understand why.

 

All that being said, im not a zealot about it. I put it on the cache page as a deterrent to couch logging with either old holiday photos or photos take from the internet. If you forget the name and take a selfie instead, its unlikely im deleting the log.

 

 

Posted
On 10/7/2024 at 7:22 PM, barefootjeff said:

 a simple question to answer at each of its three locations plus a photo with your log showing yourself or something of yours with GZ's rock feature in the background.

 

 

Why on Earth would somebody make a multiple-waypoint virtual?  Just to be annoying? 

 

My opinion only, of course, but multiple-stop virtuals violate what I think virtuals should be about. 

To me, a virtual is something neat you can stop and see on a trip, or a spot in an area that will not support a physical cache.  Having multiple waypoints for a virtual is a sign (once again IMO) of an egocentric control-freak CO who thinks that people should spend all day doing just one of their superior caches.

 

If I want to do a cache that will take multiple hours, I will choose a multi or a high-terrain traditional.  but not a virtual that forces me on a tedious journey.

 

If you really want a virtual with multiple stops and questions, please make an AL. That's what they are there for.

 

(I am certain that the thread will now be flooded with "Ackshually, virtuals can be multiple stages."  Yes I know.  No, I don;'t like those.)

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Posted
13 hours ago, fizzymagic said:

Having multiple waypoints for a virtual is a sign (once again IMO) of an egocentric control-freak CO who thinks that people should spend all day doing just one of their superior caches.

By that logic, why do a difficult puzzle or a cache that involves a hike if you can just get a park an grab?

13 hours ago, fizzymagic said:

If I want to do a cache that will take multiple hours, I will choose a multi or a high-terrain traditional

Virtuals can be high terrain too. (I will admit, it is somewhat annoying when a virtual that takes a lot of time or effort is 1/1)

13 hours ago, fizzymagic said:

If you really want a virtual with multiple stops and questions, please make an AL

A walk across a city or area of town with different important structures could/should be an AL, yes. But what about five different locations in the same city square? That (imo) is way too short to constitute an AL and not deserving of 5 finds. Or just a two-or-three stop virtual is too short to be an AL. In addition, ALs can't really have free response questions if they aren't exact text (e.g. describe to me...)

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Posted
15 hours ago, fizzymagic said:

To me, a virtual is something neat you can stop and see on a trip, or a spot in an area that will not support a physical cache.  Having multiple waypoints for a virtual is a sign (once again IMO) of an egocentric control-freak CO who thinks that people should spend all day doing just one of their superior caches.

Then maybe you should just do the Virtuals which appeal to you. They have D/T ratings, and if a Virtual has T4, you see up front that it's not just quick visit at a "neat spot".

 

15 hours ago, fizzymagic said:

If I want to do a cache that will take multiple hours, I will choose a multi or a high-terrain traditional.  but not a virtual that forces me on a tedious journey.

So you do go to caches, which take multiple hours? Then I don't even understand why you take Virtuals out of that scope. High-T can apply to all cache types, and the majority of types (everything except traditional, event and webcam) allow multiple waypoints.

 

15 hours ago, fizzymagic said:

If you really want a virtual with multiple stops and questions, please make an AL. That's what they are there for.

I sometimes have the feeling that ALs are mostly for quick and easy "finds" ;) . Also, at least where I live, many rural and mountainous areas have very spotty or non-existent mobile signal coverage, which rules out ALs.

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Posted
18 hours ago, baer2006 said:

I sometimes have the feeling that ALs are mostly for quick and easy "finds" ;) . Also, at least where I live, many rural and mountainous areas have very spotty or non-existent mobile signal coverage, which rules out ALs.

Yep. And people complain and give low ratings if it's any more than a quick easy passphrase entry for a smiley at any one location.

Virtuals have always had the option for high D/T, nothing's changed just because ALs are on the landscape.

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Posted

For my virtual, the requirements are 1) a picture of either the cacher or an item with the location in the background, and 2) give two names that are on the plaques.  The description clearly states that if either is missing after 72 hours, their post will be deleted.  I've only had to do that once.  I did screw up once because I didn't realize someone else in their group provided the answers with the names it was covering.  Apologized for that one and had them then repost the picture, as I had deleted their log.  

As for me having to provide something with my name on it, I carry a laminated piece of paper with my picture, ie, the one with this post, and caching name on it.  Ir's always in my 6" jansport "backpack".  I wish jansport still sold those--they are ideal for the GPS, pen, TOTT, smaller TBs.  

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Posted (edited)

I'm in this situation again, with a find logged on my virtual on the 11th of January that included a photo at GZ but no answers sent to me for the three waypoint questions. The logger is a fairly new player, having joined last August, but has placed 5 caches of their own so not a complete noob. From their profile photo it looks like they're just a kid, though, maybe early to mid teens. A couple of days after their log was posted, I sent them a reminder about needing answers to the questions, using both Message Centre and email (Message Centre notifications are broken again in the Android version of the official app, which makes it difficult to contact app-only players who rarely if ever visit the website) but I received no response. Two weeks on, I've now sent another reminder with a warning that I'll have to delete their log if I don't receive anything shortly.

 

I hate being put in a position where I have to delete logs, particularly when it's a new player who I'd really want to be encouraging, but what else can I do? The app design encourages players to just Navigate and Log without ever looking at the cache description and, for those who signed up through the app with a social media account, it's almost impossible to communicate with them.

Edited by barefootjeff
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Posted
3 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

I'm in this situation again, with a find logged on my virtual on the 11th of January that included a photo at GZ but no answers sent to me for the three waypoint questions. The logger is a fairly new player, having joined last August, but has placed 5 caches of their own so not a complete noob. From their profile photo it looks like they're just a kid, though, maybe early to mid teens. A couple of days after their log was posted, I sent them a reminder about needing answers to the questions, using both Message Centre and email (Message Centre notifications are broken again in the Android version of the official app, which makes it difficult to contact app-only players who rarely if ever visit the website) but I received no response. Two weeks on, I've now sent another reminder with a warning that I'll have to delete their log if I don't receive anything shortly.

 

I hate being put in a position where I have to delete logs, particularly when it's a new player who I'd really want to be encouraging, but what else can I do? The app design encourages players to just Navigate and Log without ever looking at the cache description and, for those who signed up through the app with a social media account, it's almost impossible to communicate with them.

Do it but be nice and explain to them the rules.

 

In the case of my virtual I changed the requirements to make it as easy as possible since even experienced cachers seemed to fail to provide what was asked. 

Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, MNTA said:

Do it but be nice and explain to them the rules.

 

Well I thought I did that with my first message a couple of days after their log:

 

image.png.b60a7186ddfde6e98e5f57006187fd53.png

 

Note I didn't say anything about deleting logs, just prompting them to look at the cache description (which I suspect they didn't do when they were going out to GZ) and send me answers to the three easy questions. The response? Crickets...

 

This is my follow-up message this morning:

 

image.png.a16bced6d725e0a4ab3dde9d247c8cf3.png

 

So far no response to that one either. On both occasions I sent the same text in an email through the website's email forwarder, as I'm aware that Message Centre no longer generates notifications in at least the Android version of the app, but I guess they don't monitor their emails either. Like many new players, with the app's noticiations broken it's almost impossible to contact them.

 

I'd be happy enough if they just responded to say they needed some time to revisit the location and get the answers, or any other reasonable request, but silence won't win them any favours.

 

5 hours ago, MNTA said:

In the case of my virtual I changed the requirements to make it as easy as possible since even experienced cachers seemed to fail to provide what was asked.

 

I've seen that a lot here too on other people's virtuals. Really no matter how simple you make it, there'll be some who don't provide anything at all, even if it's just a plain simple photo takern at GZ. The app hides the description away so they probably don't even read it, they just tap the big NAVIGATE button, get to GZ then tap the big LOG button, write TFTC (or .) and get their smiley.

Edited by barefootjeff
Posted
12 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

I'm in this situation again, with a find logged on my virtual on the 11th of January that included a photo at GZ but no answers sent to me for the three waypoint questions.

 

You're the CO and you are free to do your virtuals in any way you would like, but that virtual gives me very strong "the CO is a control freak" vibes.  Rather than allowing the finder to discover and explore the area, you insist that the finder do things in exactly the way you specify.  I am going to guess that you want to be sure that they do the whole hike so that they have met your standards for doing the long, hard hike that you think gives your cache some kind of moral superiority.

 

Sorry, but that is a virtual I would ignore.  Geocaching is a lot of fun and doesn't need to be spoiled by COs who create lots of hoops for finders to jump through in order that the experience is exactly what the CO demands.

 

I'm sure you will have a lot of reasons why it is so important that the finders do everything exactly your way, but maybe the log you refer to here is an indication that your virtual is not very, um, fun.

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Posted (edited)

These app-only players probable don't care much about anything. :)

 

If someone does not fullfill the tasks in the listing I use the Message Center to contact them (just in case of dispute for Groundspeak to have access to what we wrote to each other).  I ask them politely to either a) provide the required info or b) change their log to WN until they will be able to provide it  or c) delete their log (I have this message saved in a text file for copy'n'paste).

 

I give them a couple of weeks, then delele the log (with a comment, copy'n'pasted as well).

 

I have a lot of other work to do. :)

Edited by Pontiac_CZ
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Posted
14 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

I hate being put in a position where I have to delete logs, particularly when it's a new player who I'd really want to be encouraging, but what else can I do?

 

I am glad that GS added the possibility of adding a comment when deleting a log. I have deleted a couple of virtual logs, and writing the exact reason for the deletion into this field guarantees that if the player ever notices that the log disappeared, the player also gets informed why this happened.

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Posted (edited)
On 1/28/2025 at 8:42 PM, fizzymagic said:

Rather than allowing the finder to discover and explore the area, you insist that the finder do things in exactly the way you specify.

 

The virtual is in a national park and they strongly encourage people to use existing trails and not create new ones. All my waypoints and reference points are along the only existing trail that the ranger is (unofficially) happy with people using.

 

On 1/28/2025 at 8:42 PM, fizzymagic said:

I'm sure you will have a lot of reasons why it is so important that the finders do everything exactly your way, but maybe the log you refer to here is an indication that your virtual is not very, um, fun.

 

Curious then that they, and the other seven who've done it, gave it an FP. Do you give FPs to caches you don't enjoy? And how does "Thanks for the amazing walk loved everything" translate into "not very, um, fun"? Are we reading the same log?

 

Look, I'm happy to be flexible with the waypoint questions, and even send them spoiler photos if they honestly missed seeing them while doing the hike, although I'm likely to be a bit stricter with the engraving at GZ as that's really the verification that they did the hike now and not some years ago, or Photoshopped themselves into one of the many online images of the view from GZ. The logger in question has not responded at all to my two attempts at contacting them, sent both through Message Centre and by email, which makes it difficult to do anything other than delete their log or give up completely on any logging requirements and let their log (and any future armchair logs) stand.

Edited by barefootjeff
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