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Is it okay to cache during Covid-19

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1 hour ago, juissi64 said:

Hmm. Maybe we should check with them and not throw these opinions up. Stay safe!

Spend enough time reading here (and it may take quite a bit) and you'll find in one of the more active Covid threads a statement from Keystone on this subject.  HQ has made no changes to the guidelines for declaring a find.

 

The latest 'Logbook' points to their HQ Update site (  https://www.geocaching.com/sites/updates/en/?newsletter=PM  ) , which simply states:

 

As the Coronavirus 2019 (COVID-19) situation rapidly evolves around the world, the geocaching community has many questions about how the game will be impacted. Geocaching HQ will update this page with information as it becomes available. For timely updates, please also monitor our social media channels: Facebook / Twitter.

We strongly encourage geocachers to follow the most current guidance from public health authorities when choosing how to participate in activities such as geocaching. Read the Geocaching Blog for tips about how to stay connected with geocaching during these challenging times, especially if you cannot go out right now. Your health and safety are the top priority!

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2 hours ago, juissi64 said:

I would suggest "catch and release" caching i.e. just pick up the cache (with gloves!) and put it back. No signing the logs. I urge every cache owner to put this advice to their cache descriptions. I just did that. Maybe the headquarters should make this a global recommendation?

That is NOT geocaching.

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3 hours ago, 31BMSG said:

Sometimes, some people like the responsibility of being in control of their own lives. BTW, didn't the "curve", in the US, flatten like six days ago?

 

Yes, there were claims that he curve was flattening in New York.   Putting that in perspective though,  778 people died of corona virus yesterday.  

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14 minutes ago, K13 said:

That is NOT geocaching.

These are not normal times.

 

Every major professional sport has been cancelled.  The college hockey, basketball, and lacrosse seasons cancelled.   Virtually every school kindergarden to university, cancelled.     Every meeting involving more than 2 or more people, cancelled.   For those that work, most  haven't gone to their place of business in over a month. My niece was supposed to graduate from university in a couple of months: cancelled.   A good friends daughter was supposed to get married in June.  Cancelled.

 

But don't change the sanctity of signing the physical log on a geocache before claiming a find.  None of those other things are as important as geocaching.

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14 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

These are not normal times.

 

Every major professional sport has been cancelled.  The college hockey, basketball, and lacrosse seasons cancelled.   Virtually every school kindergarden to university, cancelled.     Every meeting involving more than 2 or more people, cancelled.   For those that work, most  haven't gone to their place of business in over a month. My niece was supposed to graduate from university in a couple of months: cancelled.   A good friends daughter was supposed to get married in June.  Cancelled.

 

But don't change the sanctity of signing the physical log on a geocache before claiming a find.  None of those other things are as important as geocaching.

 

Are those sports people claiming virtual goals, runs or whatever on their player statistics while they can't be out physically playing? If you don't want to cache during the pandemic, that's fine, no-one's saying you have to and in some places you mightn't even have that choice if the restrictions don't allow it, but why should you then try to claim finds you haven't physically completed? My 100-day plus caching slump that's likely to occur is a statistic I'll be able to look back on with pride in the years ahead to show that I did my bit.

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5 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Apparently the virus can be detected in sewage, so the sewage for the city as a whole will be tested at first to see if any virus can be detected, and then later the areas can be reduced to localities if need be, to compare different parts of the city.

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/pm/covid-19:-sewage-to-be-tested-for-traces-of-virus-in-canberra/12145170

The testing would be done on liquid waste i.e. water borne virus from washing. The COVID-19 does not survive digestion therefore it would not be detectable in solid waste.

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13 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

Yes, there were claims that he curve was flattening in New York.   Putting that in perspective though,  778 people died of corona virus yesterday.  

I referenced the curve for the for the United States as a whole with no reference to a particular region. Putting that in perspective, of course a region where people are stacked on top of people fighting a human-human contact disease will have more casualties, your point?

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17 minutes ago, colleda said:

The testing would be done on liquid waste i.e. water borne virus from washing. The COVID-19 does not survive digestion therefore it would not be detectable in solid waste.

The testing likely does NOT look for live virus as it does not, as you say, survive digestion. However, the likely testing target is the specific nucleic acid of SARS Cov-2

See:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4434667/

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4 hours ago, 31BMSG said:

Sometimes, some people like the responsibility of being in control of their own lives. BTW, didn't the "curve", in the US, flatten like six days ago?

I agree with your first point. As to your second statement, the USA suffered its greatest single day increase in reported cases four days ago. Each day since has shown a decrease from the day before. Is this the beginning of a steady decrease in cases? Too soon to tell, there have been several single day decreases in the last two weeks.

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3 hours ago, juissi64 said:

I would suggest "catch and release" caching i.e. just pick up the cache (with gloves!) and put it back. No signing the logs. I urge every cache owner to put this advice to their cache descriptions. I just did that. Maybe the headquarters should make this a global recommendation?

If one is going to go through all the REQUIRED steps in order to log a find..Find Ground zero & Find the actually cache. Then, Why not just go the distance and perform the most important step..and actually sign the log (With gloves)?

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On 4/12/2020 at 2:11 PM, L0ne.R said:

yup, took it to the grocery store a couple of times lol

 

On 4/12/2020 at 2:11 PM, L0ne.R said:

Check his gallery. He means a WWII style gas mask.  

 

GERMAN-GAS-MASK-WWII-FRONT.jpg

 

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26 minutes ago, Michaelcycle said:

I agree with your first point. As to your second statement, the USA suffered its greatest single day increase in reported cases four days ago. Each day since has shown a decrease from the day before. Is this the beginning of a steady decrease in cases? Too soon to tell, there have been several single day decreases in the last two weeks.

Thanks, share you source? :) I'm a numbers guy.

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I am simply treating geocaching like everything else these days. Don’t go to commonly found caches, and when you do find the cache, use gloves or hand sanitizer and don’t touch your face.

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I don't see any problem with geocaching right now. We bring hand sanitizer with us and make sure not to touch anything else before we use it.  This gets us outdoors, away from other humans, and it's fun for the kids. I also agree with a previous poster that you have to take location into consideration (I wouldn't be geocaching in NYC for example). Just use your brain and you should be fine.

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19 minutes ago, tampa1cr said:

I don't see any problem with geocaching right now. We bring hand sanitizer with us and make sure not to touch anything else before we use it.  This gets us outdoors, away from other humans, and it's fun for the kids. I also agree with a previous poster that you have to take location into consideration (I wouldn't be geocaching in NYC for example). Just use your brain and you should be fine.

Exactly.

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2 hours ago, Michaelcycle said:

I agree with your first point. As to your second statement, the USA suffered its greatest single day increase in reported cases four days ago. Each day since has shown a decrease from the day before. Is this the beginning of a steady decrease in cases? Too soon to tell, there have been several single day decreases in the last two weeks.

FTP works for me, just need an address.

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3 hours ago, colleda said:

The testing would be done on liquid waste i.e. water borne virus from washing. The COVID-19 does not survive digestion therefore it would not be detectable in solid waste.

Do you have a reference to that? Because I have read/heard the virus can be spread in faeces. Some people with the virus get diarrhoea. Here's on article on that, and it says, "According to one report, more than 50% of people with Covid-19 have the virus in their faeces, where it’s lingering long after it’s been cleared from the lungs."

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200319-covid-19-will-drinking-water-keep-you-safe-from-coronavirus

 

This article says, "Finally, those with digestive symptoms were much more likely to have the new coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, detected in their stool, with about 73% having positive stool samples, compared with 14% of those with respiratory symptoms only. This finding suggests, but does not definitely confirm, that that virus infects the gastrointestinal tract, the authors said."

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-diarrhea-symptoms.html

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Just now, Goldenwattle said:

Do you have a reference to that? Because I have read/heard the virus can be spread in faeces. Some people with the virus get diarrhoea. Here's on article on that, and it says, "According to one report, more than 50% of people with Covid-19 have the virus in their faeces, where it’s lingering long after it’s been cleared from the lungs."

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200319-covid-19-will-drinking-water-keep-you-safe-from-coronavirus

 

This article says, "Finally, those with digestive symptoms were much more likely to have the new coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, detected in their stool, with about 73% having positive stool samples, compared with 14% of those with respiratory symptoms only. This finding suggests, but does not definitely confirm, that that virus infects the gastrointestinal tract, the authors said."

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-diarrhea-symptoms.html

I'll see if I can find it.

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2 hours ago, 31BMSG said:

Thanks, share you source? :) I'm a numbers guy.

Sure, Johns Hopkins School of Medicine ( as former faculty I have pretty good faith in their reporting with the caveat that given the woeful lack of testing nationwide no one's numbers are really accurate):

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases

 

day to day numbers second graph (left side of page) 

One more day was added since I first posted, also slightly down from yesterday.

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6 hours ago, juissi64 said:

Of course you do. That is why you have app. 

I use a GPS, so no app.

That's fine as long as people only make a note and don't claim a find. No signature and I delete the log. I do make exceptions, but it's polite for the person to contact me first and give proof of find. The very few times when I forgot my pen, I naturally contacted the CO first and explained the situation and gave proof. I am not so presumptuous to claim a find without proof, and it's just rude. I have never been refused permission to log, and that's even from COs who I know delete logs without signatures.

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13 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Do you have a reference to that? Because I have read/heard the virus can be spread in faeces. Some people with the virus get diarrhoea. Here's on article on that, and it says, "According to one report, more than 50% of people with Covid-19 have the virus in their faeces, where it’s lingering long after it’s been cleared from the lungs."

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200319-covid-19-will-drinking-water-keep-you-safe-from-coronavirus

 

This article says, "Finally, those with digestive symptoms were much more likely to have the new coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, detected in their stool, with about 73% having positive stool samples, compared with 14% of those with respiratory symptoms only. This finding suggests, but does not definitely confirm, that that virus infects the gastrointestinal tract, the authors said."

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-diarrhea-symptoms.html

Couldn't find the original article I read as I follow a few other forums, should have bookmarked it. I did a search and found another livescience article.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-food-risk.html

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15 minutes ago, Michaelcycle said:

Sure, Johns Hopkins School of Medicine ( as former faculty I have pretty good faith in their reporting with the caveat that given the woeful lack of testing nationwide no one's numbers are really accurate):

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases

 

day to day numbers second graph (left side of page) 

One more day was added since I first posted, also slightly down from yesterday.

Interesting to see the graphs, but as per usual Australia is missed out :rolleyes: in the graphs. This is us: https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers

 

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5 minutes ago, colleda said:

Couldn't find the original article I read as I follow a few other forums, should have bookmarked it. I did a search and found another livescience article.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-food-risk.html

That might depend on how recently the food has been handled. I was thinking of the Ruby Princess, one of the largest sources of the virus in Australia. It is suspected that a waiter who handled food might be the source. Of course this article doesn't say if the food directly was the source, or the waiter breathed out droplets when serving food.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-13/coronavirus-outbreak-on-ruby-princess-from-waiter-police-say/12144878

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6 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Interesting to see the graphs, but as per usual Australia is missed out :rolleyes: in the graphs. This is us: https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers

 

Here's my go to for stats.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?%20

Clicking top of columns can sort.

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52 minutes ago, Michaelcycle said:

Sure, Johns Hopkins School of Medicine ( as former faculty I have pretty good faith in their reporting with the caveat that given the woeful lack of testing nationwide no one's numbers are really accurate):

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases

 

day to day numbers second graph (left side of page) 

One more day was added since I first posted, also slightly down from yesterday.

Thanks! Since you've been on staff you should ask they release graphics that compare COVID-19 to the last five years of seasonal flu deaths. It could hurt funding but could also let the populace know how dire their straits really are. I would think that a portion of the curve flattening would include reducing the stress on the public,  IMHO.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

These are not normal times.

 

Every major professional sport has been cancelled.  The college hockey, basketball, and lacrosse seasons cancelled.   Virtually every school kindergarden to university, cancelled.     Every meeting involving more than 2 or more people, cancelled.   For those that work, most  haven't gone to their place of business in over a month. My niece was supposed to graduate from university in a couple of months: cancelled.   A good friends daughter was supposed to get married in June.  Cancelled.

 

But don't change the sanctity of signing the physical log on a geocache before claiming a find.  None of those other things are as important as geocaching.

That last line is maybe the most stupid statement I have heard for a long time.

Edited by juissi64

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3 hours ago, juissi64 said:

That last line is maybe the most stupid statement I have heard for a long time.

Methinks you missed the sarcastic intonation in the typing.

 

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For those who think it's OK to claim a +1 without writing their name in the log, maybe (for the time being) they can go looking for QR codes, scan them and claim a +1 on that site? Deal?

 

Besides, if just seeing a cache would be enough to claim a find, what about caches where you need to solve or find something to get a lock code, where you need to pick the lock or some "magic box" where opening the container is (an important) part of the experience?

 

 

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5 hours ago, on4bam said:

For those who think it's OK to claim a +1 without writing their name in the log, maybe (for the time being) they can go looking for QR codes, scan them and claim a +1 on that site? Deal?

 

Besides, if just seeing a cache would be enough to claim a find, what about caches where you need to solve or find something to get a lock code, where you need to pick the lock or some "magic box" where opening the container is (an important) part of the experience?

 

 

So are you deleting "found it but didn't sign" logs on your caches?

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31 minutes ago, Oxford Stone said:

So are you deleting "found it but didn't sign" logs on your caches?

I'm not a CO but if I was, yes I would.

I log DNF if I can't open a container too.

 

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1 hour ago, on4bam said:

I'm not a CO but if I was, yes I would.

I log DNF if I can't open a container too.

 

I once did that but left a TB! A nice wooden puzzle box containing the log but in a bigger Tupperware. It was one of those "hold opposite corners and slide" jobs, but I'd totally forgotten the knack and was in a hurry... but had a TB in my bag and it was a cool spot so I left the TB.

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For those of you that absolutely do not want to sign the log, Would it be OK to take a picture of the cache container and send it directly to the CO? Then log it a find?

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4 minutes ago, Bo_Jack said:

For those of you that absolutely do not want to sign the log, Would it be OK to take a picture of the cache container and send it directly to the CO? Then log it a find?

 

I'd say email the CO first to ask.   Some will, some won't.   There's a few "location" sites where you simply take pictures of things.   :)

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16 minutes ago, Bo_Jack said:

For those of you that absolutely do not want to sign the log, Would it be OK to take a picture of the cache container and send it directly to the CO? Then log it a find?

 

If that's what you want to do, play Munzee, if you want geocaching, sign the log.

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22 minutes ago, Bo_Jack said:

For those of you that absolutely do not want to sign the log, Would it be OK to take a picture of the cache container and send it directly to the CO? 

Yes.

 

23 minutes ago, Bo_Jack said:

Then log it a find?

No. Log it as a Note. 

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I logged a cache with this message recently:

Please Note:

Due to the current COVID19 Virus conditions, if you do not feel comfortable to TOUCH a cache, you should NOT be out caching.

Online logs will be deleted if names are not signed in the logbook.

If you have forgotten your pen, standard practice of a photo of the log sheet privately message to me is accepted.

Thank you for your understanding.

 

I agreed with what was written. I need to check a cache today, because I think there are a couple of deletions coming up, and no reply yet to my message to them :(.

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You are all addicted to geocaching when you justify that we need a locationless cache or virtual logging event caches.  Go find a new hobby instead!

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3 hours ago, Thunderbolt and Lightfoot said:

Maybe, Just maybe..For those of you that absolutely refuse to sign the log, May I suggest Pokey-Man Go. A "Game" more conducive to what you  are wanting to do.

No. Just stay out of my neighborhood!  Its annoying as hell.  If i find you driving and on your phone, i got your license plate number! 

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For the super careful, put on disposable gloves during the search and discard in a trash can immediately after.  And i assume you already have 70%+ alcohol hand sanitizer in your car and use it every single time you get in the car, wiping your car key and door handle as well!

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33 minutes ago, SwineFlew said:

No. Just stay out of my neighborhood!  Its annoying as hell.  If i find you driving and on your phone, i got your license plate number! 

 

Then what?

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1 hour ago, wmpastor said:

For the super careful, put on disposable gloves during the search and discard in a trash can immediately after.  And i assume you already have 70%+ alcohol hand sanitizer in your car and use it every single time you get in the car, wiping your car key and door handle as well!

An interesting side note is that recently picked up some C4U Hand Sanitizer Alcohol Antiseptic 80% a product repurposed from a local distiller. It specifically states on the label "Contains Isopropyl Alcoho" (sic). Funny thing is that when you smell it it has the distinct smell of tequila. Bad tequila, but tequila for sure. Strange times.

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Posted (edited)

Strange that a distiller is going to the extra trouble to make isopropyl.  Most of the ones who have converted production are still running ethanol, and isopropyl requires an entirely different process.

 

Edited by ecanderson

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4 minutes ago, ecanderson said:

Strange that a distiller is going to the extra trouble to make isopropyl.  Most of the ones who have converted production are still running ethanol, and isopropyl requires an entirely different process.

 

I think maybe they are mixing isopropyl with ethanol to stretch the isopropyl. I don't even know if that's feasible just a WAG.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, fendmar said:
2 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Strange that a distiller is going to the extra trouble to make isopropyl.  Most of the ones who have converted production are still running ethanol, and isopropyl requires an entirely different process.

I think maybe they are mixing isopropyl with ethanol to stretch the isopropyl. I don't even know if that's feasible just a WAG.

I'm pretty sure it's a tax/regulatory issue. Denatured alcohol is just ethanol that has other chemicals added to it so that it cannot be consumed. If alcohol can be consumed, then it is taxed/regulated as an alcoholic beverage. If it cannot be consumed, then it is taxed/regulated as a solvent, fuel, sanitizer, etc.

Edited by niraD
clarity

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7 hours ago, niraD said:

I'm pretty sure it's a tax/regulatory issue. Denatured alcohol is just ethanol that has other chemicals added to it so that it cannot be consumed. If alcohol can be consumed, then it is taxed/regulated as an alcoholic beverage. If it cannot be consumed, then it is taxed/regulated as a solvent, fuel, sanitizer, etc.

Isopropyl alcohol (C₃H₈O) isn't simply ethanol (C₂H₆O) with nasties added to it.  It's an entirely different molecule and the manufacturing process is entirely different.

 

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2 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Isopropyl alcohol (C₃H₈O) isn't simply ethanol (C₂H₆O) with nasties added to it.  It's an entirely different molecule and the manufacturing process is entirely different.

I understand that. I wasn't talking about isopropyl alcohol. I was talking about denatured alcohol.

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Ah, OK.  Not sure where 'denatured' figures into this at the moment, though.  Thought perhaps you were confusing that with the label ingredient.  The comments above were related to a distillery producing sanitizer whose active ingredient was isopropanol.

 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Strange that a distiller is going to the extra trouble to make isopropyl.  Most of the ones who have converted production are still running ethanol, and isopropyl requires an entirely different process.

 

A distiller doesn't need to convert to Isopropyl Alcohol. They don't even need to denature their Ethy Alcohol. As long as they start with at least 180 proof Ethyl Alcohol, and the final product is at least 60 proof equivalent, you have a product that can be used as a hand sanitizer. The added ingredient make it unsuitable for human consumption, thus no need to start with denatured Ethyl Alcohol. 

The "conversion" is most likely at the dilution and bottling stage. 

Edited by igator210

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