Is it okay to cache during Covid-19

[+niraD]

My point was that they aren't mixing ethanol with isopropanol to "stretch" anything. They're just creating denatured alcohol so the ethanol won't be taxed/regulated as an alcoholic beverage. (And isopropanol is just one of many, many toxic chemicals that is used to "denature" ethanol.)

 

I've made simple alcohol-burning backpacking stoves from aluminum cans before. That's when I learned about denatured alcohol.

[+ecanderson]

23 minutes ago, igator210 said:

A distiller doesn't need to convert to Isopropyl Alcohol. They don't even need to denature their Ethy Alcohol. As long as they start with at least 180 proof Ethyl Alcohol, and the final product is at least 60 proof equivalent, you have a product that can be used as a hand sanitizer. The added ingredient make it unsuitable for human consumption, thus no need to start with denatured Ethyl Alcohol. 

The "conversion" is most likely at the dilution and bottling stage. 

We seem to be talking at crossed purposes here.  I didn't say that the distiller need convert to anything.  I was commenting ONLY that a "distiller's" packaging was claiming that his active ingredient was isopropanol, which seems VERY odd considering that no distiller would normally be set up to manufacture that material.  The rest of the commentary, while interesting, is extraneous to that point.

 

 

[fendmar]

 

The label from the product is pictured. It also lists glycerin as an ingredient and this stuff when shaken looks way to thin to have any glycerin. The labeling is a bit misleading since it is obvious, at least to my nose, that a large portion of this product is ethanol (white, unaged, high-proof tequila). I was shopping for alcohol since I use it as part of my poison ivy cleanup after being out on the trails as I believe the alcohol breaks down the urushiol.

[+RocTheCacheBox]

But what about Methyl alcohol? 

[+niraD]

58 minutes ago, RocTheCacheBox said:

But what about Methyl alcohol?

Methanol is another of the chemicals sometimes added to ethanol to make denatured alcohol.

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, fendmar said:

The labeling is a bit misleading since it is obvious, at least to my nose, that a large portion of this product is ethanol (white, unaged, high-proof tequila).

Yeah, that seems to be consistent with the labeling of denatured alcohol. I checked a number of labels, and they don't mention ethanol anywhere on the label. They mention only "alcohol" and whatever toxic ingredient they contain. And they include the corresponding health and safety warnings for that toxic ingredient (in addition to the flammability warnings that you'd expect).

[+ecanderson]

1 hour ago, fendmar said:

The label from the product is pictured. It also lists glycerin as an ingredient and this stuff when shaken looks way to thin to have any glycerin. The labeling is a bit misleading since it is obvious, at least to my nose, that a large portion of this product is ethanol (white, unaged, high-proof tequila). I was shopping for alcohol since I use it as part of my poison ivy cleanup after being out on the trails as I believe the alcohol breaks down the urushiol.

Thanks for the pic.  Makes sense that it would contain a fair bit of ethanol, given what they do for a living! 

The alcohol will act as a solvent to help pick up the irritating plant oils, so as the traditional soap/water combo isn't likely available right away, is a good first step if you get into the nasty stuff.  Needs to be done quickly, though.

 

[+ecanderson]

1 hour ago, niraD said:

My point was that they aren't mixing ethanol with isopropanol to "stretch" anything. They're just creating denatured alcohol so the ethanol won't be taxed/regulated as an alcoholic beverage. (And isopropanol is just one of many, many toxic chemicals that is used to "denature" ethanol.)

 

I've made simple alcohol-burning backpacking stoves from aluminum cans before. That's when I learned about denatured alcohol.

There are plenty of hand sanitizers available that contain ONLY ethanol plus whatever other skin conditioners the manufacturer has added.  The pump bottle at my doc's office was the most recent example I've seen. 

 

Speaking of which, and perhaps more on topic:

 

So I go in for my annual physical at the doc's request 10 days ago.  Figuring this isn't the place to be screwing around, I arrive wearing an N95 and a pair of nitrile gloves, procured before Harbor Freight donated all of those supplies.  Good thing I did.  Next afternoon, I get a phone call telling me that the doc's P.A. went home later that day with a fever, and tested positive for CV19.  She, however, was also masked, and being more cautious than usual, the office was limiting direct contact to just the doc.  So my only interaction with the P.A. was to draw my Medicare clock and remember my three Medicare words.  I can't remember the name of the next cache, but I did manage to remember her three words so as to allay fears about dementia --- I guess.

 

Needless to say, I look back on that visit as both potentially and actually - as it turned out - riskier than doing some careful geocaching where I have control over contact and proximity to others.

 

[+Bo_Jack]

Will my cache be published if I place it at a pull off on the side of the road. The road is in the woods. Not exactly where one would go for exercise but...

[+TriciaG]

1 hour ago, Bo_Jack said:

Will my cache be published if I place it at a pull off on the side of the road. The road is in the woods. Not exactly where one would go for exercise but...

Depends. Are the reviewers in your area publishing ANY caches? If not, then no. If yes, then regular cache-placing rules apply (permission, etc.)

[+igator210]

16 hours ago, niraD said:

Yeah, that seems to be consistent with the labeling of denatured alcohol. I checked a number of labels, and they don't mention ethanol anywhere on the label. They mention only "alcohol" and whatever toxic ingredient they contain. And they include the corresponding health and safety warnings for that toxic ingredient (in addition to the flammability warnings that you'd expect).

 

They could also be using the head of the distillation process. Since it would contain a mix of alcohols, and is usually discarded, they might be able to reclaim it to use. This would than just be labeled "Alcohol" and you don't have to verify what type.

[+TmdAndGG]

1 hour ago, TriciaG said:

If yes, then regular cache-placing rules apply

True, but many reviewers are only publishing caches in areas that you would get exercise(e.g. parks), not random PnG's.

[+TriciaG]

4 minutes ago, TmdAndGG said:

True, but many reviewers are only publishing caches in areas that you would get exercise(e.g. parks), not random PnG's.

Ah. I didn't know some were doing that. In that case, the inquiry should be directed to the reviewer(s). :)

[+Viajero Perdido]

20 hours ago, fendmar said:

 

"Hand sanitizer to help reduce bacteria that potentially can cause disease".

Isn't it illegal, in some uptight places, to use products for purposes not mentioned on the label?  Like say, viruses?

 

"Do not use in children less than 2 months of age."

A good warning; it's a start.

 

"Non-sterile solution".

What, 80% alcohol and still not sterile?

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Viajero Perdido
More juicy bits

[+cerberus1]

3 hours ago, TriciaG said:

Depends. Are the reviewers in your area publishing ANY caches? If not, then no. If yes, then regular cache-placing rules apply (permission, etc.)

 

The Reviewers where the OP resides have stated in the regional forums that they will only publish caches consistent with "social distancing".

They're keeping to areas far from residential areas or businesses, and centering on woods/large park hiking trails.

If they're unsure of an area, they won't publish for now.     The OP was told that.      

I'd think a big issue now would be asking for permission, at a time when many are cautious of strangers (that virus thing...).

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by cerberus1
k

[+cerberus1]

On 4/14/2020 at 3:40 PM, Max and 99 said:

I suggest you take the following (translated) off of your geocache page!

 

Due to the virus situation, I suggest that you currently record your visits to the log book. All you have to do is pick up the cache (gloves!) and return to your place. Catch and release!

 

Well, a week later,  "as mentioned in the description i didn't write my nickname in the log!" is the latest log...

[+Max and 99]

On 4/14/2020 at 2:14 PM, juissi64 said:

I would suggest "catch and release" caching i.e. just pick up the cache (with gloves!) and put it back. No signing the logs. I urge every cache owner to put this advice to their cache descriptions. I just did that. Maybe the headquarters should make this a global recommendation?

You sure have a popular cache!

[+colleda]

13 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

You sure have a popular cache!

Word must be getting around. 6 finds in February, 11 in March and, so far, 30 in April. Colour me sceptical.

[+on4bam]

We can still "cache safe"

We had 5 caches selected, one mystery (100 checkers to go through before getting WP1 coordinates) that hasn't been found since July 2019. Found the WP, calculated the cachelocation but it was too far out of the way, we'll get there next time.

One multi, not found since February 2019. No Covid-19 issues with the log. The other three were last found on the 19th but arriving at one there were two newbies holding he cache.  After logging ourselves hand sanitizer was used....

The problem now is available (within biking distance) caches are getting thinner as we're clearing the map. Since the curve was flattened and then some preparations are being made to ease restrictions, maybe we can the drive a bit before taking our bikes on a tour. One practical restriction remains, as all food/drink establishments are still closed, there are no toilets available.

 

[+Oxford Stone]

1 hour ago, on4bam said:

One practical restriction remains, as all food/drink establishments are still closed, there are no toilets available.

 

"Base of tree"...?

[+on4bam]

41 minutes ago, Oxford Stone said:

"Base of tree"...?

Not a practical solution . OK for men most of the time but not for women.

We did find out some cemeteries have public restrooms though but no idea how virusfree they are. We see many of the portable toilets used at building sites (many of which are  not active) now have locks on them. Maybe now is the time to order that long overdue lockpicking set we've planned to get for a nearby set of lockpicking caches.

[+Goldenwattle]

7 minutes ago, on4bam said:

Not a practical solution . OK for men most of the time but not for women.

We did find out some cemeteries have public restrooms though but no idea how virusfree they are. We see many of the portable toilets used at building sites (many of which are  not active) now have locks on them. Maybe now is the time to order that long overdue lockpicking set we've planned to get for a nearby set of lockpicking caches.

Here in Australia I am used to using natural facilities (tree, bush, boulder, etc) when out caching. I doubt many other women would have qualms about that either. But where I live has plenty of opportunities. It would be difficult in a tightly built up area in the middle of a city. Still, you mentioned cemeteries. They might supply relief.

[+on4bam]

3 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Here in Australia I am used to using natural facilities (tree, bush, boulder, etc) when out caching. I doubt many other women would have qualms about that either. But where I live has plenty of opportunities. It would be difficult in a tightly built up area in the middle of a city. Still, you mentioned cemeteries. They might supply relief.

Yup, you can't compare Oz to Belgium. Around here it's almost impossible not having a house or other building within 500m . Even when out on paths through farmland there are only small patches with trees/bushes. This time of year farmers are out on their land and being restricted in distance we notice lots of people walking and on bikes in the few areas away from traffic.

Take a look at google earth (approx N51 01  E4 06) for my area and compare it to OZ....  Not complaining though, we can walk to a store in a few minutes from home but stayed in a B&B in VIC where the closed show was more than half an hour away by car (it was even "worse" in WA).

 

 

[+Goldenwattle]

24 minutes ago, on4bam said:

we can walk to a store in a few minutes from home but stayed in a B&B in VIC where the closed show was more than half an hour away by car (it was even "worse" in WA)

So can I. There a small suburban shopping centre a few minutes walk from my house, with a supermarket, chemist, newsagent/post office, bakery, a couple of hairdressers, a barber, two cafes, three restaurants, and a bar/restaurant. I would not live in place with the distance that you described to a shop. Most Australians don't either, as most live in urban areas. There are those in remote areas who have long drives to a shop; at the extreme of several hundred kms.

There's a bigger shopping centre with a much bigger supermarket about 2.5 kms away, which I sometimes walk to. Drive if I am buying something heavy or large. Also a big fruit and vegetable market about 1.5kms away, also easy walking, or cycling so I can carry more, away.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Goldenwattle

[+hal-an-tow]

3 hours ago, Oxford Stone said:

"Base of tree"...?

 

2 hours ago, on4bam said:

Not a practical solution . OK for men most of the time but not for women.

 

Speaking as a woman who often walks in the countryside for between 4 and 8 hours , I can tell you with absolute certainty that finding a suitable spot sheltered from view (and without stinging nettles) is a skill one soon acquires . True, it's not ideally 'base of tree' , we ideally want cover all round, not just one side ...

[+searcherdog]

And how many trees are now left to grow to a suitable girth to provide sufficient cover?  Conifers are too just thin and deciduous are too far apart. 

 

[+Goldenwattle]

It's easier when caching in areas with plenty of tree cover for those...private moments. Bushland around and south of Canberra.

 

1. See, I can be hardly seen among that scrub, and I'm not far from the camera.

2. On geocaching bush walk with a couple of geocaching friends, headed for caches. One of the caches and my log:GLQ3YH9E

 

3. View down into the valley where we walked from to find a couple of caches.

4. Even our city has lots of trees.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Goldenwattle

[+on4bam]

Lucky you. On our next outing I'll make some photo's to show how it looks like here .

Yesterday's 38 Km bike ride:

https://goo.gl/maps/9AxkhVvjyAG5wp5y8

https://goo.gl/maps/YCESuMjgvhvFKKXSA     about the best we could do

https://goo.gl/maps/rGpsSwWymJwkC2Gw5   Lots of bikes and people walking there , as as there are little motorized traffic free zones

Most of the land next to roads and paths is private land anyway, some of the bushes/trees are part of a back garden.

That's what we get by living in a build-up area where we go from one towncenter  to another in just 3 Km

 

We can only hope to be allowed a bit further from home so we can go to less populated areas soon. On  sunny days most people tend to drive to the coast (about an hour from here) but even people who have a second property there can drive there. We avoid the coast in summer as it's to busy anyway

[+NYPaddleCacher]

2 hours ago, searcherdog said:

And how many trees are now left to grow to a suitable girth to provide sufficient cover?  Conifers are too just thin and deciduous are too far apart. 

 

Conifers are thin?  Sequoia is a genus of redwood coniferous trees.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

2 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

Conifers are thin?  Sequoia is a genus of redwood coniferous trees.

 

You were in The Empire Strikes Back?

 

[+DreamMachine74]

I'm now tackling two types of caching mostly. Night walks, where I leave at say 10:00 pm or so and come home at 2-3:00 am with a find before and after midnight (for two days I will need a cache for my finds grid), or I'll occasionally go caching in daytime but in remote areas. I've tackled a good few caches near a river in the last month...High D/T caches that mean no muggles within my vicinity. 

On that note....I need to place a hide soon for this month.

[+barefootjeff]

6 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

It's easier when caching in areas with plenty of tree cover for those...private moments. Bushland around and in Canberra.

 

1. See, I can be hardly seen among that scrub, and I'm not far from the camera.

2. On geocaching bush walk with a couple of geocaching friends, headed for caches. One of the caches and my log:GLQ3YH9E

 

3. View down into the valley where we walked from to find a couple of caches.

4. Even our city has lots of trees.

 

This is typical of the eucalypt forest around here on the coast:

 

 

and a shot of my woodland suburb:

 

 

This is a good place to practise social distancing. I have a cache near where that photo was taken from which I did a routine check on while out on one of my permitted local exercise walks last week. It's had no finders since last October.

[+Goldenwattle]

4 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

This is typical of the eucalypt forest around here on the coast:

 

 

and a shot of my woodland suburb:

 

 

This is a good place to practise social distancing. I have a cache near where that photo was taken from which I did a routine check on while out on one of my permitted local exercise walks last week. It's had no finders since last October.

I imagine you have ticks and possibly leeches in that bushland. Is that so? Fortunately in the bushland I showed I have never encountered them, but it might be too cold in winter there. I went to high school  on the coast further north to you, and we had leeches in the rainforest. YUK! Didn't stop me exploring it though.

[+barefootjeff]

6 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

I imagine you have ticks and possibly leeches in that bushland. Is that so? Fortunately in the bushland I showed I have never encountered them, but it might be too cold in winter there. I went to high school  on the coast further north to you, and we had leeches in the rainforest. YUK! Didn't stop me exploring it though.

 

Yep, leeches and ticks are common near watercourses but the ridgetops are generally too dry for them. Maybe a leech attribute would be handy .

[+Goldenwattle]

8 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

You were in The Empire Strikes Back?

Not sure, but maybe I was . Coober Pedy, SA.

 

As for the Sequoia trees, there are some planted near the Canberra Airport, but it's very doubtful they will ever become the magnificent specimens in that photograph, as our climate is not ideal for them. A few years ago some got caught in a bushfire, and they were going to be cut down, but then it was noticed they could reshoot after a fire. Many Australian natives have adapted to do that and that's expected, but most exotics don't seem to do this, so it wasn't expected the Sequoia could do the same. Luckily the new shoots were spotted in time, before too many trees were removed.

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Goldenwattle

[+Goldenwattle]

3 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Yep, leeches and ticks are common near watercourses but the ridgetops are generally too dry for them. Maybe a leech attribute would be handy .

Ha, ha, then I might know to give that cache a miss...or at least know to carry salt. One cache in Victoria I ran from when I discovered THREE leeches on me. To make that worse, I don't think the coordinates are correct or that cache, as nothing matches the hint near them. It's one of the few caches I haven't found on that road now and I think it's going to stay that way. So many cachers mention the leeches and the difficulty finding the cache.

[+Goldenwattle]

To be fair, not all of our countryside is as vegetated as the examples I gave above. They were south, towards the mountains.

[+Max and 99]

Someone made my day. Kudos!

[+Max and 99]

On 4/14/2020 at 2:14 PM, juissi64 said:

I would suggest "catch and release" caching i.e. just pick up the cache (with gloves!) and put it back. No signing the logs. I urge every cache owner to put this advice to their cache descriptions. I just did that. Maybe the headquarters should make this a global recommendation?

200 logs per year on one cache.  That is amazing!

[GeocachingGoku]

On 4/15/2020 at 11:02 PM, fendmar said:

An interesting side note is that recently picked up some C4U Hand Sanitizer Alcohol Antiseptic 80% a product repurposed from a local distiller. It specifically states on the label "Contains Isopropyl Alcoho" (sic). Funny thing is that when you smell it it has the distinct smell of tequila. Bad tequila, but tequila for sure. Strange times.

how did this conversation go from is it okay to geocache during COVID to what's in hand sanatzer

[+niraD]

3 hours ago, GeocachingGoku said:

how did this conversation go from is it okay to geocache during COVID to what's in hand sanatzer

Welcome to the forums!

[fendmar]

13 hours ago, GeocachingGoku said:

how did this conversation go from is it okay to geocache during COVID to what's in hand sanatzer [sic]

Hand sanitizer (assuming that's what you meant by hand sanatzer ) and hand cleaning in general had been brought up a few times previously in the thread. Also, not what's in hand sanitizer in general, but what was in that particular brand of "hand sanitizer" (I rate a 3/10). Did you read the thread or the post you quoted? Welcome to the forums!

[GeocachingGoku]

Btw I just came up with an idea for everyone, if someone else already said it, I don't know, but when you find a cache,  use cleaning materials to clean everything in and the cache itself. Happy Caching!

[+cerberus1]

8 minutes ago, GeocachingGoku said:

Btw I just came up with an idea for everyone, if someone else already said it, I don't know, but when you find a cache,  use cleaning materials to clean everything in and the cache itself. Happy Caching!

 

I'd rather folks didn't thanks.   

"Cleaning materials" covers quite a lot of chemicals, and not all are good on plastics or seals.

Cleaning everything in a container could have issues with baggies, and  "sealed" swag packaging too. 

Wiping everything down, then not allowing it all to completely dry before closing doesn't help either...

We can't get folks to stay long enough to CITO.  Anyone really think folks will do this and hang out a while ?

[+igator210]

Back to the title of this thread...

Is It safe? Locally, I haven't heard of any cacher getting Covid.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

3 hours ago, igator210 said:

Back to the title of this thread...

Is It safe? Locally, I haven't heard of any cacher getting Covid.

 

Some people can drink and drive for years without getting caught.  Getting away with something doesn't mean it's okay to do it.

[+thebruce0]

19 hours ago, igator210 said:

Is It safe? Locally, I haven't heard of any cacher getting Covid.

 

I've been curious about geocacher stats with covid since near the beginning. I haven't heard wind of any geocachers getting covid, let alone getting it because of geocaching. 

[+cerberus1]

19 hours ago, igator210 said:

Back to the title of this thread...
Is It safe? Locally, I haven't heard of any cacher getting Covid.

 

We've been hunting and fishing since this thing started (distance walking out for a while...),  and haven't heard of any other outdoors people with issues yet.

Studies so far are saying folks who stayed inside were the ones worse off.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

12 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

We've been hunting and fishing since this thing started (distance walking out for a while...),  and haven't heard of any other outdoors people with issues yet.

 

 

The NY State DEC has guidelines about fishing and basically just suggests using common sense and following local policies.  It recommends going to a different spot if you arrive at a fishing access spot with several vehicles in it.  The site recommends social distancing and uses a 6; fishing rod as a prop to show how far away one show be from others fishing.  I did some fishing a couple of weekends ago.  I was fishing junction pool (where the east and west branch of the Delaware river meet to form the main branch, about a half mile from my river house) and there was one other fisherman there.  We stood about 20 feet and chatted (and he caught a nice 16" brown) for about an hour.  The next day I fished several pools on the Beaverkill river (including the usually very crowded Cairns pool) and didn't see and only saw one other fisherman on the upper section of the Beaverkill.  

 

 

"Studies so far are saying folks who stayed inside were the ones worse off."

 

Got a source for that because that makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[+igator210]

26 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

"Studies so far are saying folks who stayed inside were the ones worse off."

 

Got a source for that because that makes no sense whatsoever.

 

More anecdotal than a study, but New York had a spike from people staying inside. 

 

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