WTF?

[pictom]

This being a family-friendly game and website, how do you feel about a WTF series of geocaches? Does it matter that you call the series WinTer Fun or is WTF still WTF??

 

Is this terminology perfectly "family-friendly" these days?

[+Team DEMP]

According to Phil Dunphy of Modern Family it means Why The Face. It doesn't bother me but your best option is to message your local reviewer and check with them.

[+ChileHead]

I have a WinTerFriendly cache, so I'm fine with it.

[+Touchstone]

It's pretty easy to insert a variety of words into that three letter combination. Personally it doesn't bother me as much as the idea that we need to start scrutinizing acronyms to such extreme lengths. Ultimately, I think you have to look at the context that the Listing is written up. Judging from what I've read in the Forum, it's likely that more people are going to tell you they're more offended by TFTC

[+cerberus1]

Posting on the cache page (turning it into a forums) of your issue doesn't help whatever cause you're trying to correct...

There may be another meaning, but it (really) isn't apparent on the cache page.

If you seriously see something wrong, a mail to Groundspeak's Help Center may help.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Pure and simple, it is an obscenity and should not be permitted.

[+hukilaulau]

Pure and simple, it is an obscenity and should not be permitted.

You mean TFTC, right?

[pictom]

Posting on the cache page (turning it into a forums) of your issue doesn't help whatever cause you're trying to correct...

 

So you're saying the forums are pointless and not to be used for issues? WTF?

[+on4bam]

This being a family-friendly game and website, how do you feel about a WTF series of geocaches? Does it matter that you call the series WinTer Fun or is WTF still WTF??

 

Is this terminology perfectly "family-friendly" these days?

 

Why would that be a problem?

 

If someone thinks WTF is not family friendly the problem is in their head, WTF can be anything.

[pictom]

According to Phil Dunphy of Modern Family it means Why The Face.

Right. That's his explaination to his family. Which is kinda my point. Just because we use initial letters instead of words, that does not change the words. One can tell themselves it means something else but that's not how it really works.

[+Touchstone]

I guess these guys have a real problem then:

 

World Taekwondo Federation

[+on4bam]

What's The Fuzz about?

[pictom]

Okay, looks like the consensus is that we can use any GD letters we wish as long as we pretend that they stand for something other than what most people know they stand for. Like in my Gosh Darn example.

Thanks for the feedback and I'll leave the obscenity alone since it's apparently allowed in the community I am traveling through.

 

For the record, my WTF above stands for Way To Forum! but I’m guessing you all knew that. B-)

Edited October 1, 2016 by pictom

[+Touchstone]

Another fresh perspective fought out in the courts over the trademark of WTF (aka Winterfresh Gum):

 

This whole Wrigley hub(ba)bub(ba) stems from an application filed for “WTF” by rival confection and gum manufacturer Perfetti Van Melle Benelux BV — best known for making Mentos, that mint that mercifully exhausted its advertising budget. Oh, what a sly reference to the lingo the kids are using! Since Perfetti is a family company, its proposed mark doesn’t spell out what you’d think. Instead, they went with “What the Fresh.

 

Who would've thunk

[+cerberus1]

Posting on the cache page (turning it into a forums) of your issue doesn't help whatever cause you're trying to correct...

 

So you're saying the forums are pointless and not to be used for issues? WTF?

 

What part of the Cache Page didn't you understand?

Cache pages and forums are two different animals...

 

We've seen a few caches archived for turning cache pages into forums.

Your NA simply brought the attention to you.

[+Captain Jon]

Wow Our area of caching is becoming famous. There all types of cachers in this game. The guy who started the WTF series is a great guy with a great sense of humor. If you ever have the chance to go cache hunting with him, be prepared for a fun off beat humorous time. If your mind goes in the gutter with the mention of three little letters, that's your choice. But for me here in the land of snow, I save the WTF caches for those days you want to cache in a foot or more of snow. Keep the WTF caches coming!

[+wmpastor]

Some people have initials or even a name that unfortunately also has another meaning. If words and initials can't have two meanings, then those people I suppose should be reprimanded every time they say their name, pure and simple!

 

The New York Post enjoys publishing double entendres regarding a regional politician in that predicament.

[+Manville Possum]

I'm a member of the National WTF .

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Some people have initials or even a name that unfortunately also has another meaning. If words and initials can't have two meanings, then those people I suppose should be reprimanded every time they say their name, pure and simple!

 

The New York Post enjoys publishing double entendres regarding a regional politician in that predicament.

 

How many six year olds read the New York Post?

 

I doubt that WTF bothers most adults here, but we're talking about a game played by families, many with young children. If that acronym were spell out using a word that includes a profanity, most of us might not be bothered, but the parents of young children would probably not want to have to explain to their children what the name of the cache means.

 

[+on4bam]

How many six year olds read the New York Post?

 

How many read listings? Even most adults don't seem to read them according to another thread.

 

I doubt that WTF bothers most adults here, but we're talking about a game played by families, many with young children. If that acronym were spell out using a word that includes a profanity, most of us might not be bothered, but the parents of young children would probably not want to have to explain to their children what the name of the cache means.

 

Well, they can explain what it means, WinTer Fun. The kids that don't ask already know what it could mean.

[cezanne]

I doubt that WTF bothers most adults here, but we're talking about a game played by families, many with young children. If that acronym were spell out using a word that includes a profanity, most of us might not be bothered, but the parents of young children would probably not want to have to explain to their children what the name of the cache means.

 

Why not just provide the obvious and honest reply "I do not know" as they cannot know what the cache owner had in mind. I have fpound many caches where I did not understand the title (acronyms and other types). Why bother at all? Sometimes I think that living in the Us must really be complicated

[+bflentje]

This whole thread is laughable.. you have the side that knows it's a questionable term and then you have the side that is prudish and wants you to live by their standard.

 

sigh.. what's a guy to do??

[+on4bam]

This whole thread is laughable.. you have the side that knows it's a questionable term and then you have the side that is prudish and wants you to live by their standard.

 

sigh.. what's a guy to do??

 

Lighten up and open your mind?

[+fizzymagic]

Did it ever occur to parents of small children to just not do those caches?

 

I mean, nobody is forcing you to seek them. No explanation required. Not every cache is for everyone. You don't like the name, don't search for it. No explanation required.

[+Mudfrog]

I doubt that WTF bothers most adults here, but we're talking about a game played by families, many with young children. If that acronym were spell out using a word that includes a profanity, most of us might not be bothered, but the parents of young children would probably not want to have to explain to their children what the name of the cache means.

 

Why not just provide the obvious and honest reply "I do not know" as they cannot know what the cache owner had in mind. I have fpound many caches where I did not understand the title (acronyms and other types). Why bother at all? Sometimes I think that living in the Us must really be complicated

Winter friendly? Shouldn't that be WF? Oh wait, that might be accurate but it wouldn't get anyone's attention.

 

We do know what the cache owner had in mind. He knows that those letters are usually used in a derogatory manner but also knows that playing innocent and using them for cache's names will get them more attention.

[+TheVoytekBear]

I had so many come backs after reading this thread, I'd probably get banned if I used all of them. Instead I'll just ask:

Don't turn fun into ridiculous!

 

The cache already provides an explanation for the 3 letters so you probably won't have to.

 

P.S.

Have you seen this cache?

 

https://coord.info/GC5DZZE

[+JL_HSTRE]

WTF is an acronym that has gotten such widespread usage that I don't think I would consider it a profanity unless it was spelled out to include a F-bomb. The F can stand for a variety of substitute words that have the same effect. (What The Frick?)

 

On a similar vein, WTH could just as easily mean What The Heck as it could What The Hell.

 

When I was a kid I was told by an adult that "geez" was acceptable, but "jeez" was not because it was a derivative of "Jesus" thus a blasphemy. Mind you the two words have the same exclamatory meaning, are one letter off, and pronounced identically.

 

I would say take creative acronym usage on a case by case basis. I'm okay with WTF, but I think series called, for example, Chris' Unoriginal Numbers Trail crosses the line into vulgarity.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Joshism

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I doubt that WTF bothers most adults here, but we're talking about a game played by families, many with young children. If that acronym were spell out using a word that includes a profanity, most of us might not be bothered, but the parents of young children would probably not want to have to explain to their children what the name of the cache means.

 

Why not just provide the obvious and honest reply "I do not know" as they cannot know what the cache owner had in mind. I have fpound many caches where I did not understand the title (acronyms and other types). Why bother at all? Sometimes I think that living in the Us must really be complicated

 

Why should the parent have to explain anything at all because the CO thinks it's cute or clever to name their caches using an acronym commonly associated with a profanity. It doesn't matter if it doesn't you, I, or someone else doesn't consider it inappropriate. If the parents of small children consider it inappropriate you, nor I, nor anyone else gets to decide how they deal with profanity with their children.

 

What does living in the US have to do with what I wrote. I wrote about parents and their children in general. It's not complicated. Any parent that would prefer that their children not be subjected to profanity shouldn't have to just because someone on the internet isn't bothered by it.

 

 

[+on4bam]

What does living in the US have to do with what I wrote.

 

Think about it

Most, if not all, of the "complaints" are from people your side of the pond. Same goes for "you can't do that" BTW (By The Way... just in case )

 

Around here we (many) don't see WTF (What The Fuzz) is about.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

I doubt that WTF bothers most adults here, but we're talking about a game played by families, many with young children. If that acronym were spell out using a word that includes a profanity, most of us might not be bothered, but the parents of young children would probably not want to have to explain to their children what the name of the cache means.

 

Why not just provide the obvious and honest reply "I do not know" as they cannot know what the cache owner had in mind. I have fpound many caches where I did not understand the title (acronyms and other types). Why bother at all? Sometimes I think that living in the Us must really be complicated

 

Why should the parent have to explain anything at all because the CO thinks it's cute or clever to name their caches using an acronym commonly associated with a profanity. It doesn't matter if it doesn't you, I, or someone else doesn't consider it inappropriate. If the parents of small children consider it inappropriate you, nor I, nor anyone else gets to decide how they deal with profanity with their children.

 

What does living in the US have to do with what I wrote. I wrote about parents and their children in general. It's not complicated. Any parent that would prefer that their children not be subjected to profanity shouldn't have to just because someone on the internet isn't bothered by it.

 

 

Yes, let's make sure, as a society, that parents never again need to be a parent and actually have to deal with things they'd rather not. Let's sanitize every single aspect of life so that little Johnny or Susie only see unicorns and rainbows when they step out the door. Not only do we have helicopter parents, we now need helicopter communities to make sure that these fragile little humans aren't traumatized for life.

 

I'm pretty sure that even if a child knows what WTF stands for (and they probably do), it's not going to do any damage to them whatsoever. The only ones who "suffer" are the parents and that's because they don't want to deal with the parenting aspect of being a parent.

[+Mama514]

I doubt that WTF bothers most adults here, but we're talking about a game played by families, many with young children. If that acronym were spell out using a word that includes a profanity, most of us might not be bothered, but the parents of young children would probably not want to have to explain to their children what the name of the cache means.

 

Why not just provide the obvious and honest reply "I do not know" as they cannot know what the cache owner had in mind. I have fpound many caches where I did not understand the title (acronyms and other types). Why bother at all? Sometimes I think that living in the Us must really be complicated

Winter friendly? Shouldn't that be WF? Oh wait, that might be accurate but it wouldn't get anyone's attention.

 

We do know what the cache owner had in mind. He knows that those letters are usually used in a derogatory manner but also knows that playing innocent and using them for cache's names will get them more attention.

Yes. That's pretty much what I was thinking after reading this thread.

[+wmpastor]

 

...

How many six year olds read the New York Post?

...

 

 

In my area, most that go with their parents into any convenience store. They are right there at the checkout, and the cover page headline always has a witty quip. At *least* once a week that quip is of an adult nature.

 

The Philadelphia Daily News offers front page quips, usually tamer.

 

And let me ask this: How many six year olds read the cache listings? Oh, and if they do, they learn that they're going to the "winter friendly" series.

Edited October 2, 2016 by wmpastor

[cezanne]

Why should the parent have to explain anything at all because the CO thinks it's cute or clever to name their caches using an acronym commonly associated with a profanity.

 

The acronym is used for many other things as well.

 

I did not say that the parents have to explain anything. I just said that if a child asks about the meaning of the cache name that the parents should reply that they do not know which is the only correct reply in most cases (unless they know the cache owner and have talked to him/her) in my opinion.

 

I have found caches with acronyms in the name like AMS, LBK, HL and many others and in none of the cases the real meaning is among the large number of meanings one can find in the internet.

 

It could be that the cache owner of the cache discussed here had the meaning in mind that you and others have in mind but he could also have something different in mind.

 

It doesn't matter if it doesn't you, I, or someone else doesn't consider it inappropriate. If the parents of small children consider it inappropriate you, nor I, nor anyone else gets to decide how they deal with profanity with their children.

 

I just do not agree that when the acronym is used and not spellt out and no context lets us assume that it is meant in the profane way there is a profanity to be dealt with. Either the children have previously exposed to it (then it does not matter) or they have not.

 

What does living in the US have to do with what I wrote. I wrote about parents and their children in general.

 

I'm aware of that but around here an explanation like "I do not know what the acronym of the cache owner means along with examples of the different meanings of most acronyms" would be something very normal to do for parents.

 

It's not complicated. Any parent that would prefer that their children not be subjected to profanity shouldn't have to just because someone on the internet isn't bothered by it.

 

Did you ever have a look at the really long list of different meanings of WTF? (ignore the ones which are just fun ones and still many remain.)

 

In my eyes it's the fault of the parents if they turn WTF into something profane by just thinking of one possible meaning.

[+Rebore]

I doubt that WTF bothers most adults here, but we're talking about a game played by families, many with young children. If that acronym were spell out using a word that includes a profanity, most of us might not be bothered, but the parents of young children would probably not want to have to explain to their children what the name of the cache means.

 

Why not just provide the obvious and honest reply "I do not know" as they cannot know what the cache owner had in mind. I have fpound many caches where I did not understand the title (acronyms and other types). Why bother at all? Sometimes I think that living in the Us must really be complicated

 

Why should the parent have to explain anything at all because the CO thinks it's cute or clever to name their caches using an acronym commonly associated with a profanity. It doesn't matter if it doesn't you, I, or someone else doesn't consider it inappropriate. If the parents of small children consider it inappropriate you, nor I, nor anyone else gets to decide how they deal with profanity with their children.

 

What does living in the US have to do with what I wrote. I wrote about parents and their children in general. It's not complicated. Any parent that would prefer that their children not be subjected to profanity shouldn't have to just because someone on the internet isn't bothered by it.

 

 

Yes, let's make sure, as a society, that parents never again need to be a parent and actually have to deal with things they'd rather not. Let's sanitize every single aspect of life so that little Johnny or Susie only see unicorns and rainbows when they step out the door. Not only do we have helicopter parents, we now need helicopter communities to make sure that these fragile little humans aren't traumatized for life.

 

I'm pretty sure that even if a child knows what WTF stands for (and they probably do), it's not going to do any damage to them whatsoever. The only ones who "suffer" are the parents and that's because they don't want to deal with the parenting aspect of being a parent.

As a father of a six and a twelve year old child I completely agree with cezanne and Crow-T-Robot.

[+igator210]

A word, by itself, is not offensive or obscene. It only becomes that way with context. There are a lot of words that have become offensive in one part of the world but are benign in other parts.

 

In 1972, George Carlin listed 7 words that couldn't be said on television. Of those 7 words, if you did a global cache name search, 4 of them appear in cache titles.

Edited October 3, 2016 by igator210

[+bflentje]

This whole thread is laughable.. you have the side that knows it's a questionable term and then you have the side that is prudish and wants you to live by their standard.

 

sigh.. what's a guy to do??

 

Lighten up and open your mind?

 

I am light and have an open mind. That's why I don't know where to land..

[+narcissa]

The philosophical conversation about vulgarity is all fine and dandy, but for practical applications, if you're unsure of the suitability of a word or phrase, check with the reviewer.

[+wimseyguy]

A few years back the NC DMV issued a whole series of WTF plates. Somehow that one slipped by their naughty letter combo censor. If I had received one I would have kept it.

[+MKFmly]

It is quite appropriate that Groundspeak set their own etiquette, decorum, and moral "standards" through the terms of service and the volunteer reviewers. Anyone can still hold themselves to a higher standard. In the age of talking points, shock talk, and political correctness pushback, it would be nice for all to remember it's not a crime to be truthful while also being polite, good natured, and respectful of the audience.

 

Appreciating that the modern lexicon changes (now quite rapidly) and that we generally relate the root words of wtf to the contested definition, the acronym has assumed a much less contentious connotation although maybe not as tame as "H E double hockey sticks". As a 3 letter acronym it has very little "expletive" power.

 

The related cache pages appear quite honest and straight forward, with only a few "WinTer Friendly" notes and that appears to be the intent of the series, to challenge/generate interest in winter friendly caching.

[+wmpastor]

It is quite appropriate that Groundspeak set their own etiquette, decorum, and moral "standards" through the terms of service and the volunteer reviewers. Anyone can still hold themselves to a higher standard. In the age of talking points, shock talk, and political correctness pushback, it would be nice for all to remember it's not a crime to be truthful while also being polite, good natured, and respectful of the audience.

 

Appreciating that the modern lexicon changes (now quite rapidly) and that we generally relate the root words of wtf to the contested definition, the acronym has assumed a much less contentious connotation although maybe not as tame as "H E double hockey sticks". As a 3 letter acronym it has very little "expletive" power.

 

The related cache pages appear quite honest and straight forward, with only a few "WinTer Friendly" notes and that appears to be the intent of the series, to challenge/generate interest in winter friendly caching.

 

While my earlier comments favored the free-speech approach, I agree that good taste is usually the best decision (unless you need oomph for a specific purpose, like reacting with outrage to something). If the CO (who is described as a joker) had to have his little quip, made he could have been more subtle (like maybe the "Winter Triple Fun" series, instead of the blatant acronym). I agree that this acronym has become so common that it has lost a lot of its punch. For example, if a person saw a brutal attack right in front of them, I think they would say something other than those three letters, or even the three words.

[+narcissa]

A few years back the NC DMV issued a whole series of WTF plates. Somehow that one slipped by their naughty letter combo censor. If I had received one I would have kept it.

 

I always have a little chuckle when I see a car with WTF Quebec plates. It's not vulgar in French!

[+on4bam]

The more it's talked about the more people notice. It's like those car/bike shows on Discovery channel, people would notice less if there wasn't constant beeping.

[+MKFmly]

I always have a little chuckle when I see a car with WTF Quebec plates. It's not vulgar in French!

 

I thought it was WDP in Quebec, Where De Poutine?

[+hzoi]

A few years back the NC DMV issued a whole series of WTF plates. Somehow that one slipped by their naughty letter combo censor. If I had received one I would have kept it.

 

I always have a little chuckle when I see a car with WTF Quebec plates. It's not vulgar in French!

 

 

This guy used to park around my neighborhood in Wiesbaden, even though the "S" on the plate would indicate he is from Stuttgart. Also, 6 in German is "sechs," with the final consonants pronounced more like "X" than "CHS."

 

Staying on topic -- no, a WTF series doesn't concern me that much. But if it raises your hackles, I would recommend avoiding this cache, named for the Austrian town where it is located.

[+Mudfrog]

A few years back the NC DMV issued a whole series of WTF plates. Somehow that one slipped by their naughty letter combo censor. If I had received one I would have kept it.

 

I always have a little chuckle when I see a car with WTF Quebec plates. It's not vulgar in French!

 

 

This guy used to park around my neighborhood in Wiesbaden, even though the "S" on the plate would indicate he is from Stuttgart. Also, 6 in German is "sechs," with the final consonants pronounced more like "X" than "CHS."

 

Staying on topic -- no, a WTF series doesn't concern me that much. But if it raises your hackles, I would recommend avoiding this cache, named for the Austrian town where it is located.

That cache is placed near that certain town in Austria. Its owner probably isn't trying to offend people, create sensationalism, or push moral boundaries. Here in the USA, the owner knows exactly what the initials usually correspond to and that they will be offensive to some. It's obvious to see that this didn't matter to him since he stretched his imagination getting the initials to even work. Capitalizing the T in winter,,

 

Oh well, it has brought some attention to his caches.

[+MKFmly]

That cache is placed near that certain town in Austria. Its owner probably isn't trying to offend people, create sensationalism, or push moral boundaries. Here in the USA, the owner knows exactly what the initials usually correspond to and that they will be offensive to some. It's obvious to see that this didn't matter to him since he stretched his imagination getting the initials to even work. Capitalizing the T in winter,,

Ah, so we can give CO's a pass based on our own perceptions of whether they are "trying to offend", great! That's pretty much why the caches in question got a pass from me even though I waffled a fair bit...

[+igator210]

If anyone has moral objections to "WTF" because it may or may not be interpreted a certain way, I guess these two caches clearly will have the morality police in full march:

 

Cache 1 and Cache 2

 

Edit to add a third one that I thought was funny, but may be morally objectionable, apparently:

 

Cache 3

Edited October 5, 2016 by igator210

[+narcissa]

If anyone has moral objections to "WTF" because it may or may not be interpreted a certain way, I guess these two caches clearly will have the morality police in full march:

 

Cache 1 and Cache 2

 

Edit to add a third one that I thought was funny, but may be morally objectionable, apparently:

 

Cache 3

 

It's not unusual for non-English speakers to treat those words more mildly than Anglophones.

 

Anglos in turn often underestimate the severity of a swear word in another language.

 

This happens all the time with French and English in Canada. The really notorious English swear words are mostly about sex and/or bodily functions, but the worst French swear words are mostly about religion, so the words aren't directly analogous to each other. Anglos don't understand what is so bad about the French words and vice versa. The context and the power of the words are easily lost in translation.

 

Applying "morality" to any of this is a little heavy-handed.

[+Mudfrog]

If anyone has moral objections to "WTF" because it may or may not be interpreted a certain way, I guess these two caches clearly will have the morality police in full march:

 

Cache 1 and Cache 2

 

Edit to add a third one that I thought was funny, but may be morally objectionable, apparently:

 

Cache 3

 

It's not unusual for non-English speakers to treat those words more mildly than Anglophones.

 

Anglos in turn often underestimate the severity of a swear word in another language.

 

This happens all the time with French and English in Canada. The really notorious English swear words are mostly about sex and/or bodily functions, but the worst French swear words are mostly about religion, so the words aren't directly analogous to each other. Anglos don't understand what is so bad about the French words and vice versa. The context and the power of the words are easily lost in translation.

 

Applying "morality" to any of this is a little heavy-handed.

No doubt the cache owner of the wf series knew what he was doing. He thought he was being clever and probably thinks it's funny. But he also had to know that it would be offensive to some. Sure there are plenty of people who aren't offended but i can't comprehend why someone purposely does things they know will cause angst for some. It just stands to reason that those offended will probably question a cache owner's morals.

[+redsox_mark]

 

It's not unusual for non-English speakers to treat those words more mildly than Anglophones.

 

 

This is true also in different English speaking countries. There are words which are generally considered very offensive in the UK which I've heard North American friends and colleagues use, without knowing how they are perceived here. This cache is based on the name of a place, and the CO might not even know what it means in the UK Wanker's Corner

 

There are caches all over the world which push the boundaries of family friendly and humor. I think it is possible to have a cache series called "Winter Trail Fun", and abbreviate it WTF without it being offensive; but anything remotely questionable will offend someone.

 

I found this one to be funny https://coord.info/GC6JRZC. Not just because it uses a word, but the way it was done.