CO thinks I was rude

[+Team Yianni]

CO placed her first cache and 6 cachers including myself went to find it only to find out she hasn't placed the cache.. The next day I went there and found it and In my Log I wrote, "Well 40 minutes each way for this cache and obviously cache was just placed this morning so total time for this FTF was 160 minutes. Seriously I'm thinking this cache will not last due to the noisy Chinese restaurant there. TFTC"

 

She has sent me a nasty message because of that. "Did somebody hurt your feelings when you were starting out and you are out to show the world now? Or you just hate people wasting your precious time as you race around town running people down as you speed along to see if you can beat your buddies to the next new listing? Really."

 

Am I at wrong with that or this lady needs to read the rules of placing a new cache?

[+AustinMN]

Am I at wrong with that or this lady needs to read the rules of placing a new cache?

 

Both.

[+narcissa]

You're both in the wrong.

 

Playing the FTF game means you run the risk of being disappointed because the cache isn't out yet, the coordinates are wrong, the cache kind of sucks, or whatever. Mentioning the Chinese restaurant is fine, complaining about the time you chose to spend chasing an FTF is not.

 

The cache owner is also in the wrong. Malicious emails like that have no place in the game.

[Pup Patrol]

CO placed her first cache and 6 cachers including myself went to find it only to find out she hasn't placed the cache.. The next day I went there and found it and In my Log I wrote, "Well 40 minutes each way for this cache and obviously cache was just placed this morning so total time for this FTF was 160 minutes. Seriously I'm thinking this cache will not last due to the noisy Chinese restaurant there. TFTC"

 

She has sent me a nasty message because of that. "Did somebody hurt your feelings when you were starting out and you are out to show the world now? Or you just hate people wasting your precious time as you race around town running people down as you speed along to see if you can beat your buddies to the next new listing? Really."

 

Am I at wrong with that or this lady needs to read the rules of placing a new cache?

 

Is GOD ever wrong?

 

B.

[+Manville Possum]

Now when her cache goes missing she will blame you.

[+Walts Hunting]

It was her first cache. Mistakes should be handled with courtesy and a kindly explanation of the rules. I would think a person with over 10K finds would consider themselves a good will ambassador to help new people learn their way is this hobby.

[+SwineFlew]

Now when her cache goes missing she will blame you.

I dare you to hit the NA button. Or call 911!

[+Clarkbowman]

Yes call 911. It must be illegal. take the time to help her out. You never know she may end up hiding some of the best caches in your area or maybe not. Yes she should have read the rules a bit better. But we should all try to help out new cachers.

[+cerberus1]

We used to be beta-testers for caches (ftf hounds).

Even though (I feel) there's more than enough info on placement, surprisingly there was quite a few new folks who didn't expect their cache to be published so quickly, and it wasn't there.

- Made one to two hundred feet off seem not that big a deal.

 

With new folks, we'll make mention when many feet off (and supplying "our" GZ) in our logs, but try not to post anything overly critical on their cache page.

A private mail, explaining guidelines, and helpful hints usually followed.

I think only a handful ever responded...

 

Agree with a couple here, both of you could have handled it differently.

[+SwineFlew]

I will say this again, being a CO isnt for everybody. This is one of the cases here. Had I got "nasty" logs? Oh yes... Do I ignore it? Oh yes I do! And laugh.

 

It does get old when people get offended all the time. If they are a person that get offended because someone said the truth about their hide, being a CO isnt for them.

 

Why we got so many crappy caches out there? Very simple, nobody wanna say anything negative about it but they come here on the forum and whine about it.

[+WarNinjas]

I think this is one of those times we should remember this is just a game. If she didn't make up a cache you possibly wouldn't have been playing at that time. All the error going around and not finding it and then later finding it is all part of playing. Like said before she might become a friend and starting it off this way might not be best. If others don't try to join in this game will end. I kind of enjoy all parts of this game and if someone new messes up a bit then that is fine. It is why I play it. Not to get into fights but to make new friends who want to play the game.

[+Pontiac_CZ]

OP: was your log originally different? Because such reaction does not match your (pretty kind) log. You went out to find a cache and it had not been placed yet the first time, later in your log you mention your time needed to find the cache (which was her fault) and the risk of muggling the cache in the future and she yells at you?

 

Well, as colleagues say, being a CO is not for everyone. Definitely true.

 

.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Pontiac_CZ

[+dprovan]

Meh. She made a stupid rookie mistake, so she probably already feels like an idiot, then you kinda rubbed it in and were also critical about the location. I don't think your log was rude, but it's easy to see how someone feeling vulnerable would be upset about it. Give her a break and apologize for making her feel worse than she already did. If you approach this as a friendly exchange that went south, you'll probably be able to turn this into a positive learning experience for her. If you jump on her for being rude, you wouldn't be wrong but you'll likely turn her off to geocaching for good.

[+mar1sa]

yup rude in my eyes, if that was me i would more than likely have responded in a rude way back to her, so listen to the nice posters above

[+JL_HSTRE]

You drove 40 minutes one way - twice - to attempt a FTF, on a cacher's very first hide?

 

I think there is a bigger problem here than your log text or a newbie who didn't understand how cache placement works.

[+Dame Deco]

+1 to Walts Hunting and Joshism! Help a rookie out, and never go that far for a FTF if it's a person's first hide!

[+Team Yianni]

OP: was your log originally different? Because such reaction does not match your (pretty kind) log. You went out to find a cache and it had not been placed yet the first time, later in your log you mention your time needed to find the cache (which was her fault) and the risk of muggling the cache in the future and she yells at you?

 

Well, as colleagues say, being a CO is not for everyone. Definitely true.

 

.

 

My post is original and not edited..

[+Team Yianni]

You drove 40 minutes one way - twice - to attempt a FTF, on a cacher's very first hide?

 

I think there is a bigger problem here than your log text or a newbie who didn't understand how cache placement works.

 

I travel hours for a FTF especially in different states if I know there is a chance for me to get it especially in nice weather.

[+Mudfrog]

+1 to Walts Hunting and Joshism! Help a rookie out, and never go that far for a FTF if it's a person's first hide!

I agree with helping a new person out. But, this new person was defensive and rude right off the bat. Looks like the OP's log stated the facts but, imo, wasn't rude. Things could calm down with her and she may actually want to learn more about cache etiquette but i myself would steer clear of her for now.

 

I wouldn't tell someone to "never go that far for a FTF if it's a person's first hide". A person can make this decision on their own. They just have to realize they might get beat to the cache or that there could be problems with its placement. In other words, they shouldn't get upset if something goes wrong. If they can't handle the disappointment, then they should probably heed your advice.

 

I sort of agree with the OP in that i expect certain things from other people. But i've also come to realize that this doesn't happen all that often. Ya just gotta shrug it off when it occurs.

 

Kinda curious and maybe someone can shed some light here. I'm certain that, even if i was brand new to geocaching, common sense would tell me that i needed to place the container first then get the cache published. This just seems so obvious yet i've seen the opposite happen a few times over the years. I have always wondered what people were thinking when they did this?

Edited April 13, 2016 by Mudfrog

[+on4bam]

With all the other threads here about caches with potential "commercial" or "agenda" worries I'm surprised no questions were raised about this one.

 

asked that each time the geocoin moved to another location, to please Bless it and send it on its way.

This is a small strip mall of sorts, that includes amongst other things a small coffee shop called *********** Cafe

 

As for the location... "P&G", "noisy", "garbage"... looks like fun

[+thebruce0]

Kinda curious and maybe someone can shed some light here. I'm certain that, even if i was brand new to geocaching, common sense would tell me that i needed to place the container first then get the cache published. This just seems so obvious yet i've seen the opposite happen a few times over the years. I have always wondered what people were thinking when they did this?

 

Maybe that final checkbox, despite indicating all rules have been read and whatnot, should also explicitly state for physical caches: "The container has been placed and is ready to be found."

[+Team Hugs]

You know ... sometimes, Groundspeak sends mixed signals to cache owners, specifically new cache owners.

 

Here's my story of my first cache placement.

 

I read all the rules, took the time to find an interesting place to put a cache, got explicit permission from the property owner (even though it was "only" an LPC near a historic marker), spent time on putting together a nice container and a FTF prize, and composed an interesting cache listing. I saw all the notes from Groundspeak that say "don't expect caches to get published instantly, it can take up to a week because of the load on volunteer reviewers". So, great, I figure I'll click "submit" at midnight and drop off the container at 8am on my way to work. Not a problem if it takes a week to publish a cache, right?

 

Except that the local reviewer published the cache at 7:30am the next morning. By the time I got to work at 8am, it had already gotten its first DNF (missed getting there in time by about 5 minutes).

 

But here's where the story is much different than the one reported here.

 

The DNF was kind and courteous, noting only the facts of his unfruitful search. I placed the cache, posted a note acknowledging my error, and emailed the DNFer letting him know that the cache was in place now (and apologizing). He came back and got the FTF a few minutes later, with nice words for me.

 

Of course, the FTF is one of the leaders of the local caching community, and has received several awards from various caching organizations for his work on behalf of our pastime. His courtesy and welcoming attitude helped bring me into that same community. Now, I attend events when my schedule permits (not as often as I'd like), I've been asked to adopt caches when one of the local caching gurus retired and moved south, and I just hosted my first event on Leap Day at his encouragement. He turned a bad situation into an educational experience for me, and made me a part of this community.

[+Mudfrog]

Kinda curious and maybe someone can shed some light here. I'm certain that, even if i was brand new to geocaching, common sense would tell me that i needed to place the container first then get the cache published. This just seems so obvious yet i've seen the opposite happen a few times over the years. I have always wondered what people were thinking when they did this?

 

Maybe that final checkbox, despite indicating all rules have been read and whatnot, should also explicitly state for physical caches: "The container has been placed and is ready to be found."

That statement is right there in front of the submit button. Only thing is, it's like the fine print on a legal document, much smaller than the submit button itself.

[+narcissa]

Kinda curious and maybe someone can shed some light here. I'm certain that, even if i was brand new to geocaching, common sense would tell me that i needed to place the container first then get the cache published. This just seems so obvious yet i've seen the opposite happen a few times over the years. I have always wondered what people were thinking when they did this?

 

Maybe that final checkbox, despite indicating all rules have been read and whatnot, should also explicitly state for physical caches: "The container has been placed and is ready to be found."

That statement is right there in front of the submit button. Only thing is, it's like the fine print on a legal document, much smaller than the submit button itself.

 

I think that in places with high saturation, people get caught off guard because they expect to run into the saturation guidelines and they seek reviewer approval before putting the cache out. That's not necessarily the case in this particular situation, but that's why I think it happens quite a bit around here.

[+kunarion]

I saw all the notes from Groundspeak that say "don't expect caches to get published instantly, it can take up to a week because of the load on volunteer reviewers". So, great, I figure I'll click "submit" at midnight and drop off the container at 8am on my way to work. Not a problem if it takes a week to publish a cache, right?

 

Except that the local reviewer published the cache at 7:30am the next morning. By the time I got to work at 8am, it had already gotten its first DNF (missed getting there in time by about 5 minutes).

Upon "Submit", I remember something I had intended to do . One thing is updating the "Date Hidden" to Today. To keep track of how ready my cache is, I type a checklist into the Cache Note.

 

My first cache also was reviewed and published quickly. Within about 30 minutes. I figured, OK maybe not a whole week, but at least a couple of days before the cache goes live. By the time I knew it was online, there was an FTF already. Glad it was all set up.

 

I have my caches in place in advance. That first one was in its spot for months. I mainly wanted to see if it gets muggled immediately -- if everymuggle finds it all the time, that's no good. But I often still forget one or two minor things I had planned, and add them later if possible.

Edited April 13, 2016 by kunarion

[+ODragon]

I placed the cache, posted a note acknowledging my error, and emailed the DNFer letting him know that the cache was in place now (and apologizing).

 

I think this is where the big difference is. As someone who has dnfed his number of FTF attempts (latest) because they weren't placed, not once has any cache owner acknowledged their mistake.

 

And no, my log wasn't all that nice. I don't like wasting what little free time I have attempting to find caches that don't read/follow the guidelines. It would be a much easier pill to swallow if there was an apology. There never is, there is just silence which makes it even more frustrating.

 

FWIW, the example above, was less than a mile from my house so not a big deal, I am more a radius slave than a FTF hound so I just wanted it off my map!

[Pup Patrol]

You know ... sometimes, Groundspeak sends mixed signals to cache owners, specifically new cache owners.

 

Here's my story of my first cache placement.

 

I read all the rules,

 

The Guidelines clearly state:

 

6. Submitting a Geocache Listing

 

Geocache must be in place before you enable the listing.

 

Your cache should be in place and ready to be found at the time your cache listing is enabled online. If the cache is not ready for seeking, disable your cache listing so that it won't appear in the review queue and post a Reviewer Note explaining special circumstances, such as awaiting permission from a land manager.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

B.

[+L0ne.R]

+1 to Walts Hunting and Joshism! Help a rookie out, and never go that far for a FTF if it's a person's first hide!

I agree with helping a new person out. But, this new person was defensive and rude right off the bat. Looks like the OP's log stated the facts but, imo, wasn't rude. Things could calm down with her and she may actually want to learn more about cache etiquette but i myself would steer clear of her for now.

 

I wouldn't tell someone to "never go that far for a FTF if it's a person's first hide". A person can make this decision on their own. They just have to realize they might get beat to the cache or that there could be problems with its placement. In other words, they shouldn't get upset if something goes wrong. If they can't handle the disappointment, then they should probably heed your advice.

 

I sort of agree with the OP in that i expect certain things from other people. But i've also come to realize that this doesn't happen all that often. Ya just gotta shrug it off when it occurs.

 

Kinda curious and maybe someone can shed some light here. I'm certain that, even if i was brand new to geocaching, common sense would tell me that i needed to place the container first then get the cache published. This just seems so obvious yet i've seen the opposite happen a few times over the years. I have always wondered what people were thinking when they did this?

 

+1

 

She's been caching for 10 months, 74 finds. She's experienced. Judging by the gallery she's been to some nice places and seen some nice caches.

 

 

So what is her first hide? A biscuit jar in the bushes where junk accumulates, in a strip mall between a noisy Chinese food place and a busy road.

 

 

Her description pushes the agenda guidelines: "please take time to have a good look around the FRONT of the building... a small coffee shop called The Veterans Cafe (thus the choice for this cache location)...You don't have to be a patron to go in and look around."

 

She doesn't place the cache before submitting it. The submission form is pretty clear in a couple of places, that the cache must be placed before submission.

 

Geocaching is not a free game. We spend a lot of time and money on our obsession.

Maybe it could be excused if it were a nice location that would make for a pleasant second visit, but this location is rather dismal. I wouldn't return but I'm not in to the FTF game, I would have waited out the first reports. I am really glad that some cachers are FTFers because they help to warn others. FTFers have a legitimate gripe when their time and money are wasted. They should say so in their logs (the OP's log was handled well) to get the message across that caches need to be in place before submission and why it's important.

Edited April 13, 2016 by L0ne.R

[+L0ne.R]

I placed the cache, posted a note acknowledging my error, and emailed the DNFer letting him know that the cache was in place now (and apologizing).

 

This is good cache ownership...you realized your mistake, realized the annoyance and waste of time the the FTFer may have experienced and apologized.

[+J Grouchy]

I think new folks probably have the same issue Team Hugs ran into: OVERestimating the amount of time they expect to wait until the cache gets published and UNDERestimating how quickly some folks will run out to make the grab, no matter the time of day and potential obstacles in their path.

 

Regarding the first point, Groundspeak DOES send out an email when submitting a cache that states "Your volunteer reviewer will strive to begin the review process within the next 7 days." Many folks take that quite literally and don't expect a turnaround that sometimes can be as quick as an hour or two.

[Keystone]

1. During the review process for this cache there was extensive back and forth concerning the "Solicitation and Commercial Caches" section of the listing guidelines. What you see on the cache listing is a compromise after multiple edits. It looks like some leeway was given due to the dual functionality of the referenced location as both a business and a museum.

 

2. Also as part of the review process, the cache location changed from its initial location to the current location.

 

3. There was a request from the cache owner for publication to be accomplished several days prior to the actual publication date of April 11th. There was no hint in the review process that the cache was not yet in place. So, the common problem with new hiders ("I did not think it would be published that quickly") was not present here.

[+J Grouchy]

1. During the review process for this cache there was extensive back and forth concerning the "Solicitation and Commercial Caches" section of the listing guidelines. What you see on the cache listing is a compromise after multiple edits. It looks like some leeway was given due to the dual functionality of the referenced location as both a business and a museum.

 

2. Also as part of the review process, the cache location changed from its initial location to the current location.

 

3. There was a request from the cache owner for publication to be accomplished several days prior to the actual publication date of April 11th. There was no hint in the review process that the cache was not yet in place. So, the common problem with new hiders ("I did not think it would be published that quickly") was not present here.

 

Understood.

 

My post was more about a common newbie mistake and not necessarily this particular cache.

[+bflentje]

I placed the cache, posted a note acknowledging my error, and emailed the DNFer letting him know that the cache was in place now (and apologizing).

 

This is good cache ownership...you realized your mistake, realized the annoyance and waste of time the the FTFer may have experienced and apologized.

 

I am still wondering, is a Chinese restaurant noisier than any other restaurant?

[+dprovan]

I travel hours for a FTF especially in different states if I know there is a chance for me to get it especially in nice weather.

It sounds like the pleasure of your trip does not depend on finding the cache and getting the FTF, but instead of expressing that, you made it sound like the first trip was a waste of time and second wasn't much better. Perhaps a better log would have been something like "Oboy, I got to make this trip twice since the cache wasn't there the first time!" Experienced FTF hiders would recognize the sarcasm, yet it still accurately expresses your feeling that the primary value was in the trip with the FTF just being gravy.

 

Kinda curious and maybe someone can shed some light here. I'm certain that, even if i was brand new to geocaching, common sense would tell me that i needed to place the container first then get the cache published. This just seems so obvious yet i've seen the opposite happen a few times over the years. I have always wondered what people were thinking when they did this?

I've seen it happen a couple times, and my guess is that those COs aren't aware that people will run out to get FTF within minutes of the cache being published. I think they're thinking they'll have time to go place the cache after it's approved. I remember wondering whether you should hide it first or get approval first back when I first started. Fortunately, I didn't actually hide anything until I knew the answer.

[+thebruce0]

Tho it's not just people out to get an ftf. What if someone decided to check for findable caches, and happened to do a search finding this one, thinking it's findable (whether or not it was found)? The expectation of anyone looking at the database of listings is that if it's published, it's findable. New COs need to understand that =/

[+jellis]

I've had been on all sides. So you will always find someone wrong with the cache, with the log or with a message from the CO or finder. Think to yourself did you do or say something to provoke that response. But best thing is leave a short log and move on.

[+Pond Bird]

I've had caches be gone. Then come to find out they were replaced AFTEr i'd been there and the owner didn't even log in to say they replaced a cache. Another time a cache was moved to a new location and people didn't know that until the owner logged in a few months later and said she moved the cache to another location.

 

If you were FTF you could say "glad I got the FTF" and/or "...the cache wasn't here yesterday but I was able to find it today glad it was in place so I can find it." I would acknowledge the truth but then be thankful it was there to found and not still missing.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Pond Bird

[+Michaelcycle]

I placed the cache, posted a note acknowledging my error, and emailed the DNFer letting him know that the cache was in place now (and apologizing).

 

I think this is where the big difference is. As someone who has dnfed his number of FTF attempts (latest) because they weren't placed, not once has any cache owner acknowledged their mistake.

 

And no, my log wasn't all that nice. I don't like wasting what little free time I have attempting to find caches that don't read/follow the guidelines. It would be a much easier pill to swallow if there was an apology. There never is, there is just silence which makes it even more frustrating.

 

FWIW, the example above, was less than a mile from my house so not a big deal, I am more a radius slave than a FTF hound so I just wanted it off my map!

 

Given who published that cache that is the definition of irony!

[+BAMBOOZLE]

I agree with the OP regarding this except I think the location is O.K. , not a good one maybe but average....looks like a pull off between the bushes and rear of building.

I don't do the FTF game but agree the FTF folks do a good job on getting new caches squared away for the rest of us.