Micros taking up areas perfect for larger caches

January 8, 2012

Am I the only one frustrated coming upon a matchbox or bison tube that's located in a perfect area for a regular sized cache, such as an ammo can? I was scoping out an area perfect for a multi stage with a CHIRP device (and associated regular stage 1 for non-CHIRPers), but in the middle of the park is a waterproof match container.

7.9k · January 8, 2012

Take the match container and post a DNF.

After the owner replaces (if they do), wait for a couple of finds, go back and take it again, post a DNF.

Of course you will need to make it so a few other cachers need to post some DNFs so it isn't just you (an obvious giveaway).

Repeat as needed until the owner gives up and archives it.

Now the area is yours.

Of course it may still seem a bit suspicious that you moved in right after the other one got archived, but since you have been there SO MANY TIMES to look for the now archived cache, you have really come to appreciate the location, right?

Unethical? :unsure:

My ethics mess up a lot of things I would like to do, too. :mad:

3.2k · January 8, 2012

Am I the only one frustrated coming upon a matchbox or bison tube that's located in a perfect area for a regular sized cache, such as an ammo can? I was scoping out an area perfect for a multi stage with a CHIRP device (and associated regular stage 1 for non-CHIRPers), but in the middle of the park is a waterproof match container.

I am trying to get my head around what the problem is. If there is already a cache there, find another spot. We all had an area we wanted to put a cache and someone beats us to it. Find another spot, not a big deal. If the area does not have another spot, it probably does not need any more caches.

Edited January 8, 2012 by baloo&bd

January 8, 2012

Am I the only one frustrated coming upon a matchbox or bison tube that's located in a perfect area for a regular sized cache, such as an ammo can?

Once in close to 900 caches did the container type bother me.

Coordinates took you to a huge fallen tree that was big enough for even a 'large' cacher such as myself to crawl inside and be hidden completely. The perfect spot for a large cache.

Cache ended up being a nano hidden up under an old covered bridge next to the fallen tree.

The cache owner wanted to put out a nano, so they did. In retrospect I am at least thankful they did not put the nano inside the tree :laughing:

As far as a small container 'blocking' your multi...they had the idea for a cache there first. Tough luck old chap.

9.3k · January 8, 2012

Not a problem for me. The areas I tend to hide caches in are typically avoided by those folks who hide micros...

January 8, 2012

When out caching I get tired of finding ammo can after ammo can hidden in the forest under some leaves near a bush. Lets be more creative. As for your situation, too bad. Move on, nothing to see here, move along now.

1.1k · January 8, 2012

Am I the only one frustrated coming upon a matchbox or bison tube that's located in a perfect area for a regular sized cache, such as an ammo can? I was scoping out an area perfect for a multi stage with a CHIRP device (and associated regular stage 1 for non-CHIRPers), but in the middle of the park is a waterproof match container.

+1 Grrr. I avoid micros and nanos in favor of larger caches.

8k · January 8, 2012

I like rocky road :mmraspberry:

It's a matter of personal preference. Some people prefer finding match containers while others prefer tupperware. More so hiders. Larger caches may get muggled more often and they are generally more expensive. Add that the convenience of carrying a smaller container to hide and it's no wonder that there is a preference for hiding smaller caches.

January 8, 2012

Something else to consider is who placed the nano. Some people just can't afford a big ammo box but have lots of matchboxes or 35mm film cannisters lying around and a great place to place the cache (it must be a good place to use otherwise you wouldn't want to use it!) and so use what is to hand.

But what do I know!

11k · January 8, 2012

Am I the only one frustrated coming upon a matchbox or bison tube that's located in a perfect area for a regular sized cache, such as an ammo can?

There are plenty of spots that leave me wondering "why not a nice big container". And I've placed a couple of ammo cans in a park, looked like great spots to me, nicely hidden and all, to hear later that there were caches there over the years, but that they always got stolen. If I'd known that in advance, maybe a micro would be better option.

But you can ask the guy. I had a nice micro at a picnic table area, and the container would only work in that one spot in any of the local parks. My intention was NOT to prevent any more caches in the park. So if someone asked, and had a real cool plan, I might archive mine (I did anyway on that one, since the county tied a garbage can to the hiding spot).

Edited January 9, 2012 by kunarion

8.9k · January 8, 2012

I used to worry about this, but not any more. I just go out and find the non-micros and ignore the "Not Listed" or "other" sizes (since many of them are nanos as well).

The only time I see it as a real problem is when placing a micro would actually harm the environment. If someone were to place a micro in this location, it would mean endlessly turning over rocks and disturbing the area. Needlessly difficult and showing a lack of consideration to the natural layout of the area.

But then again, if that spot had a micro, I wouldn't even see it on my radar. My pre-filtering weeds out caches that I probably wouldn't like. Here's a post where I show my "standard" weeding process.

You know, my method of narrowing caches reminds me of that scene in the Doctor Who Episode "World War Three" when he's narrowing down the possible aliens:

Doctor: Which planet. So judging by their body shape that narrows it down to about 5,000 planets in travelling distance. Now what else do we know? Information!

Rose: They're green.

Doctor: Yep, Narrows it down.

Rose: Good sense of smell.

Doctor: Narrows it down.

Rose: They can smell adrenaline.

Doctor: Narrows it down.

Harriet: The pig technology.

Doctor: Narrows it down.

Rose: The spaceship in the Thames; you said slipstream engine.

Doctor: Narrows it down.

Rose: They hunt like it's a ritual.

Doctor: Narrows it down.

Rose: Wait a minute! Did you notice when they fart, if you'll pardon the word, it doesn't just smell like a fart, if you'll pardon the word, it's something else. What is it? It's more like, um...

Rose: Bad breath.

Harriet: That's it!

Doctor: Calcium decay. Now that Narrows it down!

Doctor: Calcium phosphate. Organic calcium. Living calcium. Creatures made out of living calcium. What else - what else? Hyphenated surnames. Yes! That narrows it down to one planet! Raxacoricofallapatorius!

January 8, 2012

First off I'm sure I will be pissing somebody off but I really need to get this off my chest. Why Why do people insist on hiding micros just off the road? If thats not bad enough but within a mile of this one hide there are five not one not two but five lakes. With the price of gas I am not about to drive twenty minutes just for a micro on the side of the road.

Now I know micros have there place, like IN TOWN not out in the woods. Now these kind of hides might be fine down south but up here with all the woods around here all they do is take up room.

Is it just me or is this really what people want these days?

7k · January 8, 2012

With the price of gas I am not about to drive twenty minutes just for a micro on the side of the road.

So don't. :unsure:

January 8, 2012

First off I'm sure I will be pissing somebody off but I really need to get this off my chest. Why Why do people insist on hiding micros just off the road? If thats not bad enough but within a mile of this one hide there are five not one not two but five lakes. With the price of gas I am not about to drive twenty minutes just for a micro on the side of the road.

Now I know micros have there place, like IN TOWN not out in the woods. Now these kind of hides might be fine down south but up here with all the woods around here all they do is take up room.

Is it just me or is this really what people want these days?

Agreed

January 8, 2012

So, dont go after micros?

Not sure how micros in a heavily wooded area 'take up room'?

If the price of fuel is a big problem to you ( I note you say gas so assume possibly incorrectly your American - your fuel is massively cheaper than here in the UK)then hows about taking a walk rather than a drive?

January 8, 2012

With the price of gas I am not about to drive twenty minutes just for a micro on the side of the road.

So don't.

I know I'm not some in the thousands finder but being in a small town and having every cache in town found already. I have to drive at least twenty minutes to get to the nearest unfound cache. I don't mind driving twenty minutes even if its for one or two caches if its worth it. A micro park an grab in sight off the woods defiantly is not worth the drive. Now next time I pass that way going somewhere else will I stop? Maybe but for no other reason but to clean up the map or just out of boardem.

6k · January 8, 2012

If people didn't go after micros people would stop putting them out.

So therefore people want micros. You do know that you can filter them out in a pq?

21.2k · January 8, 2012

I merged two threads discussing very similar themes.

10k · January 8, 2012

Am I the only one frustrated coming upon a matchbox or bison tube that's located in a perfect area for a regular sized cache, such as an ammo can? I was scoping out an area perfect for a multi stage with a CHIRP device (and associated regular stage 1 for non-CHIRPers), but in the middle of the park is a waterproof match container.

TBSS. Too bad. So sad. There's lots of room out there. Go find another spot. Not that I'm particularly found of many micros in the woods. But if you were to suggest getting rid of Chirp caches, I might agree with you!

2k · January 9, 2012

With the price of gas I am not about to drive twenty minutes just for a micro on the side of the road.

It's really seldom a surprise when you get to a cache site what the size is (it's usually in the description) or where it is (look at the map link.) So there should be no reason to drive 20 minutes to a cache that you don't want to find.

14.6k · January 9, 2012

I like rocky road

"So weren't you gonna buy half a gallon, baby!"

FWIW, I know people who hide smaller caches in remote places because they don't like carrying larger size containers when they go hiking. As long as the container is big enough to hold a log that will last a few years, they're happy. Instead of a larger container full of trade items they don't care about, they'd rather carry a few more smaller containers, or another full water bottle and some trail mix.

3.2k · January 9, 2012

Unless your on a numbers run and just wanting easy ones like tupperware and larger, I really don't get why the size should have any impact on the experience. The OP said it was in the middle of a park, so it's not an LPC or guardrail. They're really not that hard to find once you get some experience under your belt.

10.2k · January 9, 2012

Something else to consider is who placed the nano. Some people just can't afford a big ammo box but have lots of matchboxes or 35mm film cannisters lying around and a great place to place the cache (it must be a good place to use otherwise you wouldn't want to use it!) and so use what is to hand.

But what do I know!

Well, you said "nano", but then talk about match containers or film canisters. The beauty of the classic nano, or blinky, is that they have to be mail ordered, and cost a few bucks.

Oh I dunno. Once in my entire career I've seen someone who dropped a micro at a trailhead sign, thus blocking the first 528 feet of a nice nature trail from having a traditional "cache in the woods". I do understand the frustration of the OP of the original thread before merging, but I don't get what the problem is if the micro is in "the middle of the park". It's a cache, and was there first.

5.7k · January 9, 2012

Am I the only one frustrated coming upon a matchbox or bison tube that's located in a perfect area for a regular sized cache, such as an ammo can? I was scoping out an area perfect for a multi stage with a CHIRP device (and associated regular stage 1 for non-CHIRPers), but in the middle of the park is a waterproof match container.

Ammo can hide in a Park? Man they steal them things around here. That's why we use w/p matchboxes and Alitoids tins, stuff not worth stealing and not big enough to stuff trash in. Why not just ask the CO for the spot? I have archived listings for other users that have asked nicely. :blink: Would you use a choke tube as swag? :laughing:

14.6k · January 10, 2012

The beauty of the classic nano, or blinky, is that they have to be mail ordered, and cost a few bucks.

FWIW, the local REI carries blinkers in the geocaching section.

2k · January 10, 2012

have found 2 caches that come to memory (one recently archived) that made me think this way. Both had like an area of 400 feet in every direction from where it was hid, with lots of trees, stumps, logs and stuff in between. What was hidden? Tiny caches on a hook on a tree. They were technically just above micro size, but not much.

However, sometimes a micro is cleverly done and meant to be a little evil and I do not mind those. However, if its just a mindless throwdown of a bison (especially if on a hook), would wish they would do better than that.

3.1k · January 10, 2012

Yup. Experienced this dilemma today. Out in a State Forest, and a bunch of the 60+ I found were micros where a regular would have been great. Oh well. :anibad:

January 10, 2012

Something else to consider is who placed the nano. Some people just can't afford a big ammo box but have lots of matchboxes or 35mm film cannisters lying around and a great place to place the cache (it must be a good place to use otherwise you wouldn't want to use it!) and so use what is to hand.

But what do I know!

Well, you said "nano", but then talk about match containers or film canisters. The beauty of the classic nano, or blinky, is that they have to be mail ordered, and cost a few bucks.

Oh I dunno. Once in my entire career I've seen someone who dropped a micro at a trailhead sign, thus blocking the first 528 feet of a nice nature trail from having a traditional "cache in the woods". I do understand the frustration of the OP of the original thread before merging, but I don't get what the problem is if the micro is in "the middle of the park". It's a cache, and was there first.

Oh dear, I must've been having a nano finding crisis!

I recently placed my first cache and it was a micro (not a nano ) at the start of a nice walk. It had to be a micro - 35mm film tube - as in the area it was place anything bigger would be found easily by muggles. It turns out that the plans I had for a small series (that would take people on a short walk around the local fields) have had to be put on hold. Should I change the film tube for something bigger, that would get found easier by muggles, because there are no other caches within a certain radius.

Incidently (and aimed at no one in particular) walk is something that can be done for pleasure, not just getting to your car - just think of the money you'd save (not to mention the benifits to the planet!!!).

9.3k · January 10, 2012

It had to be a micro - 35mm film tube

I've seen a few spots over the years that I thought were nice enough to warrant having a cache, but would not support anything larger than a micro, so I can understand your sentiment. Personally, were I to place such a cache I would not use the poster child of crappy cache containers, as the world is full of micro sized containers that don't suck.

January 10, 2012

Not everyone has a good income and can afford nice containers. Be happy with what is out there. Did you ever think about asking the owner if they would give up that spot for you to hide a bigger one there? Just wondering.

January 10, 2012

I was scoping out an area perfect for a multi stage with a CHIRP device (and associated regular stage 1 for non-CHIRPers), but in the middle of the park is a waterproof match container.

Even if it was a large container, the spot is already taken. So I don't see why size matters to you?

Now if you don't like searching for microcaches, then simply filter them out. As you are a premium member, pocket queries will do that for you.

2k · January 10, 2012

Not everyone has a good income and can afford nice containers. Be happy with what is out there. Did you ever think about asking the owner if they would give up that spot for you to hide a bigger one there? Just wondering.

Just in regards of your argument, I really do not think a small piece of tupperware or a lock and lock costs much if any more than the cost of a hook and a bison tube. The hobby requires one to have a decent GPS unit after all. Not every non-micro is a fancy custom painted ammo can.

Edited January 10, 2012 by lamoracke

7.5k · January 10, 2012

Not everyone has a good income and can afford nice containers. Be happy with what is out there.

Are you referring to CR's comment on the leaky film canister? And are we taking pity on cache owners that can afford a GPS unit, a car and some gas money but can't afford $2 for a matchstick container? or $3 for a small lock n lock? or a couple of bucks on a small nalgene jar?

lock-lock-3-round-camo-geocache-15402%20LockLock%203%20Round%20Camo%20Geocache-medium-350x262.JPG

7.5k · January 10, 2012

Not everyone has a good income and can afford nice containers. Be happy with what is out there. Did you ever think about asking the owner if they would give up that spot for you to hide a bigger one there? Just wondering.

Just in regards of your argument, I really do not think a small piece of tupperware or a lock and lock costs much if any more than the cost of a hook and a bison tube. The hobby requires one to have a decent GPS unit after all. Not every non-micro is a fancy custom painted ammo can.

Great minds think alike....only you were nicer about it.

7.5k · January 10, 2012

Even if it was a large container, the spot is already taken. So I don't see why size matters to you?

Because swag size is more fun and appeals to a broader audience. If you only want to sign a logbook you can ignore the swag. Those of us who like swag (even if it's only to paw through the stuff), and trade trackables don't get to enjoy that aspect of the game.

3.6k · January 10, 2012

Just ran my GSAK database of the whole state of Oregon and this is my finding:

micro= 9,335

small = 8,872

Regular= 7,462

Large = 156

Other = 2,058

I think micros are doing fine with that many small and regular in my state. :mmraspberry:

January 10, 2012

Not everyone has a good income and can afford nice containers. Be happy with what is out there.

Are you referring to CR's comment on the leaky film canister? And are we taking pity on cache owners that can afford a GPS unit, a car and some gas money but can't afford $2 for a matchstick container? or $3 for a small lock n lock? or a couple of bucks on a small nalgene jar?

I was referring to the OP. I take no pity on no man, woman or child. I just don't whine when I go to a cache and complain that someone else didn't put enough effort into it. I sign a thank you for the cache and continue on.

3.6k · January 10, 2012

Not everyone has a good income and can afford nice containers. Be happy with what is out there.

Are you referring to CR's comment on the leaky film canister? And are we taking pity on cache owners that can afford a GPS unit, a car and some gas money but can't afford $2 for a matchstick container? or $3 for a small lock n lock? or a couple of bucks on a small nalgene jar?

I was referring to the OP. I take no pity on no man, woman or child. I just don't whine when I go to a cache and complain that someone else didn't put enough effort into it. I sign a thank you for the cache and continue on.

TFTC only log = thank you for being cheap.

January 10, 2012

Not everyone has a good income and can afford nice containers. Be happy with what is out there.

Are you referring to CR's comment on the leaky film canister? And are we taking pity on cache owners that can afford a GPS unit, a car and some gas money but can't afford $2 for a matchstick container? or $3 for a small lock n lock? or a couple of bucks on a small nalgene jar?

I was referring to the OP. I take no pity on no man, woman or child. I just don't whine when I go to a cache and complain that someone else didn't put enough effort into it. I sign a thank you for the cache and continue on.

TFTC only log = thank you for being cheap.

I've never signed that way. Of course, you get what you ask for. If you put out a small container, don't expect a War & Peace reply.

7.5k · January 10, 2012

Not everyone has a good income and can afford nice containers. Be happy with what is out there.

Are you referring to CR's comment on the leaky film canister? And are we taking pity on cache owners that can afford a GPS unit, a car and some gas money but can't afford $2 for a matchstick container? or $3 for a small lock n lock? or a couple of bucks on a small nalgene jar?

I was referring to the OP. I take no pity on no man, woman or child. I just don't whine when I go to a cache and complain that someone else didn't put enough effort into it. I sign a thank you for the cache and continue on.

I use to be like that, but around year 7 the proliferation of micros planted just because they were cheap and easy to hide really got annoying. I've been around to see the changes and this one aspect of the game is not something that I feel should be lauded or even accepted without protest.

7.5k · January 10, 2012

Just ran my GSAK database of the whole state of Oregon and this is my finding:

micro= 9,335

small = 8,872

Regular= 7,462

Large = 156

Other = 2,058

I think micros are doing fine with that many small and regular in my state.

It's not the numbers, it's the quality that matters. If those were 9,335 micro caches planted where a larger cache cannot be planted (and the CO really made an effort to look), in a decent location with a good container then that would be fine. But we all know that the majority of those are lazy hides.

January 11, 2012

Not everyone has a good income and can afford nice containers. Be happy with what is out there.

Are you referring to CR's comment on the leaky film canister? And are we taking pity on cache owners that can afford a GPS unit, a car and some gas money but can't afford $2 for a matchstick container? or $3 for a small lock n lock? or a couple of bucks on a small nalgene jar?

I was referring to the OP. I take no pity on no man, woman or child. I just don't whine when I go to a cache and complain that someone else didn't put enough effort into it. I sign a thank you for the cache and continue on.

I use to be like that, but around year 7 the proliferation of micros planted just because they were cheap and easy to hide really got annoying. I've been around to see the changes and this one aspect of the game is not something that I feel should be lauded or even accepted without protest.

But they'll (Geocaching) follow the money which means younger, smart phones and micros. Get used to it.

3.6k · January 11, 2012

Just ran my GSAK database of the whole state of Oregon and this is my finding:

micro= 9,335

small = 8,872

Regular= 7,462

Large = 156

Other = 2,058

I think micros are doing fine with that many small and regular in my state.

It's not the numbers, it's the quality that matters. If those were 9,335 micro caches planted where a larger cache cannot be planted (and the CO really made an effort to look), in a decent location with a good container then that would be fine. But we all know that the majority of those are lazy hides.

Its not really of lazy hiders, its more about replacing caches when they disappear and that can get costly. I see some cachers got tired of replacing and archived the cache and place a new one thats a micros. Its not always about lazy hiders.

Edited January 11, 2012 by SwineFlew

3k · January 11, 2012

I can't tell you how you how many thank you!s I get for my ammo can hides lately. I just placed my last ammo can recently, and I have to find more.

But I am guilty of a few micros in state parks, but only because an ammo can wouldn't do.

I also have some well camo'd gallon sized Rubbermaid jars that have stood the test of time.

The bryno and I hid a cache in a really antique ammo can, that was so old it had a leather gasket. Amazingly, it was never stolen, but when the lid failed, I climbed the mountain again, and replaced it with a lock and lock. And I returned the ammo can to the bryno.

4.2k · January 11, 2012

I've never signed that way. Of course, you get what you ask for. If you put out a small container, don't expect a War & Peace reply.

what does the container size have to do with the type of log you going to write?

so you're telling me there's a micro up a mountain and you have a great time hiking there, beautiful views etc etc...and you will ignore all that just because it was a micro and not a big ammo can full of junk, where you spend 10 minutes digging out the logbook?

what happened to geocaching being about the experience? :unsure:

3.2k · January 11, 2012

what does the container size have to do with the type of log you going to write?

so you're telling me there's a micro up a mountain and you have a great time hiking there, beautiful views etc etc...and you will ignore all that just because it was a micro and not a big ammo can full of junk, where you spend 10 minutes digging out the logbook?

what happened to geocaching being about the experience?

+1

Exercising my right to agree.

7.5k · January 11, 2012

I've never signed that way. Of course, you get what you ask for. If you put out a small container, don't expect a War & Peace reply.

what does the container size have to do with the type of log you going to write?

so you're telling me there's a micro up a mountain and you have a great time hiking there, beautiful views etc etc...and you will ignore all that just because it was a micro and not a big ammo can full of junk, where you spend 10 minutes digging out the logbook?

what happened to geocaching being about the experience?

I think that geocaching at it's best is a full-package thing. A good location, a quality container, a swag size container for those who like trading swag and trackables, and a CO that takes care of the container and cache listing. You break these things down into it's separate parts and the experience loses part of the quality.

If the goal was to get to the top of the mountain and enjoy the view, then your goal is achieved, you don't need geocaching for that.

If the point is to go geocaching at the top of that mountain, then a leaky micro may dampen the experience of that mountain view. A water tight quality swag size container at the same location would make the experience better for just about everyone who found it. Having a great mountain view and a great maintained swag size cache is preferable over a great mountain view and even a watertight maintained micro. You please more people with a swag size cache.

3.2k · January 11, 2012

You please more people with a swag size cache.

Do you have any evidence to support this statement? Because most of the whining complaining I see about micros is in the forums, not the logs, which would appear to support the opposite.

22k · January 11, 2012

You please more people with a swag size cache.

Do you have any evidence to support this statement? Because most of the whining complaining I see about micros is in the forums, not the logs, which would appear to support the opposite.

Apparently you aren't watching enough logs. Unfortunately most tend to avoid confrontation by not posting in cache logs and keeping it to the forums. Then the forum crowd does a dump on feel-good caching. Hey dude what's your problem? Why aren't you happy to find a cache?

If you have reason enough to complain about people whining, there's your measurement.

edit: you're/your

Edited January 11, 2012 by BlueDeuce

3.2k · January 11, 2012

Apparently you aren't watching enough logs. Unfortunately most tend to avoid confrontation by not posting in cache logs and keeping it to the forums. Then the forum crowd does a dump on feel good caching. Hey dude what's you're problem? Why aren't you happy to find a cache?

Now I'm confused. Am I not watching enough logs or do people lie in the logs to avoid confrontation?

Micros taking up areas perfect for larger caches

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